Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

[Outlawmws]

RT, Very cool! I wasn't so far off on the "Eastwing" thought, it does have a steel shank!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Lugz,
You are going to have to step it up to get a re-election bid.[emoji1]

Thankfully there's no two-term limit!

 

[RubiconJK]

Ragz, BMW, those are cool and nicely done!
Tin Medic, welcome to TX! I've heard that the picking is much better in the San Antonio area, so you should just leave Houston alone!! Lol!

 

[r_olson_06]

I am jealous of your year round flea pickings. It is the cold months here.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[Catfishdan]

Love the custom plomb creations guys!

Here’s my plomb and proto finds from a garage sale today. Some neat stuff. Including my first war finish 1/4” socket- a 4712.

 

[r_olson_06]

Love the custom plomb creations guys!

Here’s my plomb and proto finds from a garage sale today. Some neat stuff. Including my first war finish 1/4” socket- a 4712.

Nice Dan,
Looks like a few 1940 items. The ratchet must be a femaile plug style. I think those are only a 1-2 year production in that style.
The 9/16" looks a little early or off to me on the open end side.
Either way you cleaned house. Well done.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[Catfishdan]

Nice Dan,
Looks like a few 1940 items. The ratchet must be a femaile plug style. I think those are only a 1-2 year production in that style.
The 9/16" looks a little early or off to me on the open end side.
Either way you cleaned house. Well done.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

Thanks. You’re right on both counts. The ratchet is a 39 and the wrench is a little weird. Here’s a picture of it next to another 9/16”. Open end and the handle are slimmer. But the markings look fairly average to me, at least for plomb with all their variations...

 

[r_olson_06]

Thanks. You’re right on both counts. The ratchet is a 39 and the wrench is a little weird. Here’s a picture of it next to another 9/16”. Open end and the handle are slimmer. But the markings look fairly average to me, at least for plomb with all their variations...

That must be a 1940. The shape looks very similar to an LA. The 1940 wrenches had the stamping of sizes on the ends for the DBEs and DOEs. I think this is the only year wrench like this that didn't carry an LA stamp with it. Almost a transitional of sorts.


How about some 1212 love. Many deemed this the hardest combo pebble to find. I have now what I believe to be all Plomb generations minus 1940 if considered a generation.
Starting at the top:
LA
Smooth
Pebble (didn't go for the mfd vs made in)
Transitional standard
Transitional long
Proto LA


Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[DD T/A]

Roy I absolutely hate you. I cannot believe you have a transitional Long 1212. Oh man, I'm like...mad or something. This frustration inside me.... lol






















jk

 

[Catfishdan]

That must be a 1940. The shape looks very similar to an LA. The 1940 wrenches had the stamping of sizes on the ends for the DBEs and DOEs. I think this is the only year wrench like this that didn't carry an LA stamp with it. Almost a transitional of sorts.


How about some 1212 love. Many deemed this the hardest combo pebble to find. I have now what I believe to be all Plomb generations minus 1940 if considered a generation.
Starting at the top:
LA
Smooth
Pebble (didn't go for the mfd vs made in)
Transitional standard
Transitional long
Proto LA


Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

Nice 1212’s. Here’s mine. Chrome, plain, pebble, proto la, proto mfd, p&c.

 

[3baygarage]

Wait a minute! Ya mean I found one ‘at ya boys don’t have? Yes, ‘at ain’t a word ‘cept when yer really surprised.

A Proto Los Angeles MFD USA with two panels on the other side.

 

[3baygarage]

Added a new piece to the ratchet collection. I’ve wanted to find one for a long time.

 

[r_olson_06]

Wait a minute! Ya mean I found one ‘at ya boys don’t have? Yes, ‘at ain’t a word ‘cept when yer really surprised.

A Proto Los Angeles MFD USA with two panels on the other side.

I have that one in the pic. They stamped it on the wrong side. Nice Vogel insert. Thought about putting the one I have in a Plomb pebble.[emoji3]

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[3baygarage]

I was wondering if the wrench was a second. Has that look like it was never chromed.

Here is an old thread with the double sided 3/8 ratchet. Tool Pants posted the same one in post #37. I think he is still around here?

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19648

 

[Outlawmws]

So that one is a 3/8 - 3/8?

I have a Vogle/Proto marked 3/8 - 1/2 in the long handle version of the 3/8 Proto. I like that ratchet...

 

[3baygarage]

Yep it’s 3/8 x 3/8.

 

[3baygarage]

Pulled out the 3/8 Pro-ski’s and their Bro-ski’s. Not the cleanest examples,not all vintage, but just for fun.

I like Catfishdan’s 1/4 collection and didn’t realize how many 3/8 are around here. It’s too bad there are quite a few still back in Buffalo that would make the picture even better.

We have a group of Plombs including two different female knurled 5249, a knurled WF-21, female pebble 5249, male pebble 5249, a WF-21 and unbranded WF-21 spinner. A 5249 transition rat, the newly aquired 5249 LA double sided rat, P&C 3209, Penens 1261, Millers Falls 6092, Fleet 1261, older Proto 5249 with chromed brass lever, Kiowa, 5249 Proto Pro, 5249 Proto Pro with Registered R, 5249 Urrea.

 

[r_olson_06]

Pulled out the 3/8 Pro-ski’s and their Bro-ski’s. Not the cleanest examples,not all vintage, but just for fun.

I like Catfishdan’s 1/4 collection and didn’t realize how many 3/8 are around here. It’s too bad there are quite a few still back in Buffalo that would make the picture even better.

We have a group of Plombs including two different female knurled 5249, a knurled WF-21, female pebble 5249, male pebble 5249, a WF-21 and unbranded WF-21 spinner. A 5249 transition rat, the newly aquired 5249 LA double sided rat, P&C 3209, Penens 1261, Millers Falls 6092, Fleet 1261, older Proto 5249 with chromed brass lever, Kiowa, 5249 Proto Pro, 5249 Proto Pro with Registered R, 5249 Urrea.

That is a nice family picture.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[Catfishdan]

Pulled out the 3/8 Pro-ski’s and their Bro-ski’s. Not the cleanest examples,not all vintage, but just for fun.

I like Catfishdan’s 1/4 collection and didn’t realize how many 3/8 are around here. It’s too bad there are quite a few still back in Buffalo that would make the picture even better.

We have a group of Plombs including two different female knurled 5249, a knurled WF-21, female pebble 5249, male pebble 5249, a WF-21 and unbranded WF-21 spinner. A 5249 transition rat, the newly aquired 5249 LA double sided rat, P&C 3209, Penens 1261, Millers Falls 6092, Fleet 1261, older Proto 5249 with chromed brass lever, Kiowa, 5249 Proto Pro, 5249 Proto Pro with Registered R, 5249 Urrea.

Verry nice indeed! Now all we need is a guy to collect all the 1/2”ers for a family photo.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Nice, 3bay.

Funny they didn't give those Vogel patent coaxial double drive stud rats a different part number. Also, I don't think I've ever seen one without the Vogel Tool Co marking and the patent number.

I'll admit, I don't get it from a pratical perspective. I mean, I get it, but it's a little in the gimmicky category in my opinion. I remember the patent essentially touting the time saving - not having to remove a socket, simply flipping the rat over and there is another socket with a second size service opening. But as soon as you encounter a fastener with a third size, you have to remove one of them. I suppose it would save more than negligible time on an assembly line where you're only and repeatedly working on two different size or type fasteners.

Outlaw's coaxial 1/2- and 3/8-inch drive variant is interesting, essentially combining two ratchets in one. You could carry a set of 3/8- and 1/2-inch drive sockets and only one ratchet to turn them all.

Thoughts?

 

[Provincial]

One ratchet to fit them all,
One ratchet to drive them.
One ratchet to turn the bolts,
To take the parts and bind them.

With apologies to J.R.R.Tolkien

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Clever.

 

[RubiconJK]

Verry nice indeed! Now all we need is a guy to collect all the 1/2”ers for a family photo.

Here is a previous post I made with some of the 1/2"ers, plus another that shows an "SR" marked 1/2" I added later.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7846428&postcount=6349
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7947171&postcount=6676

 

[3baygarage]

^That shows a good many of them.


Thought I’d posted this one before by itself but apparently not. Another oddity.

Plomb 5449 1/2” x 1/2” ratchet. One side is missing the ball, and the working side, someone started to slice off with a saw!

top rat here, shown from each side

 

[d42jeep]

Recently added a couple items to the Plomb 1/2" drive ratchet stable so I thought I'd take a family photo. From bottom to top:
Plomb WF-38-T
Plomb N-38 (one of the new additions...Vannatta site refers to the "N" designation as "Unknown")
I&V WF-38 (another recent addition...not sure if you guys have discussed this version before, but somewhere I read the I&V may stand for "Industrial & Vocational".
Proto WF-38
Craftsman Circle U (recent addition and made by Plomb. Will show the rest of the set sometime later)
Plomb 5449 Pebble
Plomb 5449 Round handle
Plomb WF-38 ver 1
Plomb WF-38 ver 2
Plomb WF-38 BOG version

Wow! That’s an impressive gathering. If WF can stand for Wright Field I don’t see why N wouldn’t stand for Navy.
I received a nice gift in the mail today from lardy1. Here it is after a bit of sharpening. I like how the catalog illustrators conveniently ignored that the width of the cut is larger than that of the stock.
-Don

 

[r_olson_06]

Wow! That’s an impressive gathering. If WF can stand for Wright Field I don’t see why N wouldn’t stand for Navy.
I received a nice gift in the mail today from lardy1. Here it is after a bit of sharpening. I like how the catalog illustrators conveniently ignored that the width of the cut is larger than that of the stock.
-Don

I have a couple Plomb wrenches stamped USN. I thought this was the Navy mark? Granted the wrenches with the USN appear to a 1940 style wrench maybe they changed markings? But who knows you have NAF as well. Maybe mulitple marks?
All a hyothesis at this point.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

 

[d42jeep]

I have a couple Plomb wrenches stamped USN. I thought this was the Navy mark? Granted the wrenches with the USN appear to a 1940 style wrench maybe they changed markings? But who knows you have NAF as well. Maybe mulitple marks?
All a hyothesis at this point.

Looking for the following Plomb Pebbles Wrench 3061

I have tools marked NAF that would have been used on Navy aircraft. I imagine that there were tons of tools used on ships that weren’t marked NAF. There was a large discussion on the subject a while back on the P&C thread.
-Don

 

[RubiconJK]

I have tools marked NAF that would have been used on Navy aircraft. I imagine that there were tons of tools used on ships that weren’t marked NAF. There was a large discussion on the subject a while back on the P&C thread.
-Don

We had a brief conversation about the N markings and NAF markings after I originally posted about the N-38 ratchet in postings 6338-6356. As was the case then, I've still not found any real determination other than "Navy" seems to make as much sense as anything. I'll go to the P&C thread and check out the past conversations there as I must have missed that discussion.

 

[d42jeep]

We had a brief conversation about the N markings and NAF markings after I originally posted about the N-38 ratchet in postings 6338-6356. As was the case then, I've still not found any real determination other than "Navy" seems to make as much sense as anything. I'll go to the P&C thread and check out the past conversations there as I must have missed that discussion.

Check page 19 and 20. Just discussion and no definite conclusions.
-Don

 

[RubiconJK]

Check page 19 and 20. Just discussion and no definite conclusions.
-Don

Thanks Don. Was just finishing looking there and agree that it seems to be up in the air if the N mark was Navy or some other branch as well as a question regarding the relationship of the contracts being serviced by P&C and Plomb at that time.

 

[lardy1]

Wow! That’s an impressive gathering. If WF can stand for Wright Field I don’t see why N wouldn’t stand for Navy.
I received a nice gift in the mail today from lardy1. Here it is after a bit of sharpening. I like how the catalog illustrators conveniently ignored that the width of the cut is larger than that of the stock.
-Don

Ahh.
Good to see it found its' family. So glad it has a good home with someone that appreciates it.

I noticed in a photo you showed earlier that had a pin punch in the lineup. Should there be more? Always looking.

 

[d42jeep]

There always seem to be more. Here are some catalog listings. I’ve been looking for an 86A 7/8 for years with no success.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

...it seems to be up in the air if the N mark was Navy or some other branch as well as a question regarding the relationship of the contracts being serviced by P&C and Plomb at that time.

I think the highest probability we can conclude given all the available data at this point in time is that the P&C "N-" series was a Navy contract.

I had early misgivings about that, due mainly to my deeper reading and awareness of WWII Navy sub-agency codes (e.g., XSN, XSS, etc) that can be found on all kinds of wartime era Navy equipment and materiel as well as in wartime era federal and Navy contract documents, used to distinguish Bureau of Ships stuff from Bureau of Ports stuff, for example. Complicating that was the use of the even older "NAF" proprietary designation, taken from the all-things-Navy-Air that evolved out of the Naval Aircraft Factory in Philly and found its way into the Navy Aviation Supply Office stock numbering system as a prefix. Given all that, "N" = Navy just seemed too obvious and simplistic.

Ironcially, what convinced me was the full recognition that "WF" was not an official US Army Air Corps designation. You won't find it any period federal or USAAF documents. The agency code for the USAAF (created in March 1942) was "AC", no doubt a leftover from their status as the US Army Air Corps prewar. In fact, "AC" appears by itself or embedded in other numbers (stock, contract, etc) on all kinds of wartime USAAF equipment and materiel. Wright tools are a good example in our domain, but I have other materiel (flight jackets, goggles, etc) and aircraft instruments bearing the marking as well. Wright had the same customer as Plomb, as did Vlchek, whose tools don't have a "WF" or an "AC." I believe Wright chose to use the agency code, Plomb chose their own code, and Vlchek didn't bother marking their USAAF Air Corps tools with any special designation at all.

The point is that "WF" appears to have been devised and used at Plomb's own discretion. The series model numbers are their own system. THAT was the key for me with the N=Navy issue. I was hung up on the question of why the Navy would use the same model numbering system as the USAAF when they would have no compunction to. (Completely separate services. No jointness back then, except for the A/N system.) False logic! I believe it was P&C using, for practicality, the same model numbering system for a Navy contract that happened to be specifying a very similar* set of tools as the set of tools that Plomb and P&C were both providing to the USAAF in the so-called Wright Field ("WF") contracts. Whether that decision originated with Plomb or P&C, I don't know. For their own bookkeeping purposes, all they had to do was use a different prefix (N-) and add a few numbers that weren't included in the WF- series. (*The Navy contract included fewer drive tools but a larger range of DBE wrenches.)

In other words, it all makes sense from the perspective of Plomb Empire using their own system, WF- for Air Corps, N- for the bureaus in the Navy that were ordering those tools, and NAF- for Navy Aviation tools, because Navy Aviation was strict about that.

As for contracts, there is ZERO doubt that P&C was helping Plomb fulfill early Air Corps contracts, but it also had its own Air Corps contract, and it had its own Navy contracts. I have a record of all discrete Plomb and P&C contracts.

 

[d42jeep]

Works for me. Good job!
-Don

 

[RubiconJK]

Works for me too, and I appreciate your research and perspective Lugz. I am surprised (and maybe I've just missed it) that we haven't had folks on this forum thread that are a child or grandchild of a former employee that would have direct knowledge of some of the questions we've raised at different times. I guess there could even be a chance of still finding a former employee out there somewhere.

 

[d42jeep]

Back in post #6940, I came to the realization that my 1939 Plomb Challenger set’s ratchet was missing the detent that was only used in 1939 and 1940, as far as I can tell. Catfish Dan found a 1939 ratchet that had the detent intact and he generously traded it to me. It arrived today and the detent worked out perfectly. While I had the donor ratchet from Dan apart, I cleaned and lubed it. I’ll continue to look for a rusty ratchet with the detent so I can make the donor ratchet whole again.
-Don

 

[RagTopTA]

A friend of mine tagged me in a post in a group where a guy had posted a Firestone 1/4 set he had bought in an antique store. He wanted to know more about it so I told him the details. We got to chatting and he was a cool guy. A couple of days later he messaged and wanted to sell it to me. He gave me first dibs as I had given him the info when he posted it up. We talked price and then being about 150 miles away we chose a place to meet. Super cool guy! We chatted a while and then I left with this minty FS set. Supa excited to add it to my Pile-O-Plomb!

 

[RubiconJK]

A friend of mine tagged me in a post in a group where a guy had posted a Firestone 1/4 set he had bought in an antique store. He wanted to know more about it so I told him the details. We got to chatting and he was a cool guy. A couple of days later he messaged and wanted to sell it to me. He gave me first dibs as I had given him the info when he posted it up. We talked price and then being about 150 miles away we chose a place to meet. Super cool guy! We chatted a while and then I left with this minty FS set. Supa excited to add it to my Pile-O-Plomb!

Very nice! Congrats.

 

[RagTopTA]

Thanks I was oretty excited to get it!

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Nice fs set. One of my favorite plombpire varieties.