Plomb tool picture thread - show your stuff!

[four.cycle]

Gentlemen:
I am in need of:
4708 1/4" drive 6-point 1/4" socket (cadmium/phosphate finish)(?)(silvery colored)
4708 1/4" drive 6-point 1/4" socket (black plain steel finish)

Thank you so much!

 

[AK4570]

Well, that took off fast!

Here's my list of Available:

Pebble Wrenches:

5/8 1220 Combo

11/16 - 3/4 1135 DBE

Plain Wrenches:

1126 1/2 - 9/16 DBE

1130 9/16 - 5/8 DBE (Chrome) (EC)

1145 15/16 - 1 DBE

Sockets 1/2:

7/16 5414 (x2)

1/2 5416 1D

9/16 5418 (x5)

19/32 5419

5/8 5420 AC (Ragged Chrome)

11/16 5422

3/4 5424

13/16 5426 1D

7/8 5428

15/16 5430 CC

1 5432

5461 5" Extension

Plomb LA 1/2 Sockets:

25/32 5425 8A

7/8 5428 5D

11/16 DD11 8A

Sockets 3/8:

5224 3/4 HC

5224 3/4 0C

5224 3/4 (Chrome)

5222 11/16 (Chrome)

5220 5/8 (Chrome)

PWA 1948 (Plvmb 5218)

5216 1/2

5214 7/16

5214 7/16 CB

Sockets 1/4:

4708 1/4

4711 11/32 DC

4711 11/32

4711 11/32 Chrome CB

4712 3/8

4712 3/8

4712 3/8

Other:

276 6.5" Slip-Joint Plier

Plvmb 76-3/8 triangle/chisel (GMTK?)

 

[AK4570]

And here my list of Need:

Pebble Combo:

1210 5/16

1212 3/8

1216 1/2

1224 3/4

1228 7/8

1232 1

1234 1 1/16

1236 1 1/8

1242 1 5/16

1244 1 3/8

1246 1 7/16

Plain Combo:

1212 3/8

1216 1/2

1218 9/16

1226 13/16

1228 7/8

1230 15/16

1232 1

Offset DBE:

8181

8182

8183

8184

8185

Sockets 1/2 Shallow:

5440 1 1/4

5434 1 1/16 (Plain Steel)

Sockets 1/2 Deep:

5341 9/16

5343 5/8

5345 3/4

5349 15/16

5352 1 1/16

Drive Tools:

5249 3/8 Ratchet

4749 1/4 Ratchet

4760 3.5" Extension

4761 6" Extension

 

[AK4570]

@Private Lugnutz I'd love to take one of those 5249s off your hands, but all I've got off of your lookin' for list is one miserable 4708 socket! Let me know if there is anything else on my list that could get us evened up.

Best regards,
John

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'll PM you. If we all start having trade talks here on top of the lists, it's really going to turn into a swap thread.

 

[d42jeep]

I have some extras and some needs but It will take some time to make lists. I know I’m missing some 1/4” drive sockets. Here are some tools my neighbor picked up for me recently. The ratchet is missing the socket retaining ball and a screw but I’m hopeful that I have spares.
-Don

 

[honza.vosalik]

I recently picked up this toolbox. Now I need to find tools to fill it with... hopefully I can complete a pebble wrench set over time.

 

[d42jeep]

Honza,
That is quite a rare box. I’ve only seen a picture of one other and it is in the UK. Nice find!
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Same. And same other box!

Ironically. Although it's a flip top portable type box, and not as commonly desirable as the rollers and chests, it's definitely scarcer and, for me, way more envy inducing. That would be very tempting for putting together a Plomb-themed postwar GMTK, something that would be a tad awkward (they weren't known as a major QMC or Ordnance Dept supplier) and more than a tad difficult (they didn't make some of the major pieces in the right specs). But it would be a fun and cool project to do anyway!

 

[honza.vosalik]

Did these boxes just come as empty boxes or did they come as sets with tools?

 

[Private Lugnutz]

As far as I know the first time that box (100HR, for "Hip Roof") shows up in a Plomb catalog is Catalog No. 4820 (mid 1948), and that is the first Proto Tools by Plomb Tool Co catalog. Page 64, all the way in the back, reversing a long time trend by Plomb of leading off their catalogs with a variety of chests and boxes and the sets that went in them. None of the chests and boxes in the back are in sets. Presented as empty. Including the 100HR.

Your inclination to put pebble wrenches in it was good instincts.

 

[d42jeep]

I’m glad you spotted it. I was looking through Plomb catalogs with no luck. I don’t think it appears in any actual Plomb (not Proto) catalogs. Must have been made shortly before the name change. I wouldn’t mind having one of those.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Must have been made shortly before the name change.

Might have been made in 1948 or 1949, and early 1950, but no later than March 1950, is the safest way to put it, I think.

Remember the sequence.

1948 was the year Plomb tried to get away with changing the name "on paper" only. Quite literally. Decals, packaging, ads, and the 1948 catalog. That was the 'Proto by Plomb' campaign. They didn't change any tool or toolbox markings. The tools and toolboxes were still marked 'Plomb'. They thought that TM'ing 'Proto' and slapping so much paper 'Proto' on top of everything that it would obscure or disguise or distract Plumb. It didn't work. They were sued again in November 1948. In December they shut down their plants.

In January 1949 they stubbornly re-opened with the dual-marked Proto-Plomb tools, desperately still trying to hang onto the name on tools. But they didn't ever dual-mark boxes or chests, as far as I know. That same month they were sued again for the final time and were forced to finally capitulate, but they were given until March 1950.

However - I have always had a theory that a lot of the tools that show up in Catalog No. 4820 may have been introduced much earlier, immediately after the war. Plomb just kept re-using the basic graphics from Catalog 19-R during those years (1946-1947), issuing 2nd, 3rd, and 4th printings, with changes only showing up in Price Lists and Supplements.

Think about it. It can't be a coincidence that they started offering a box of the same exact type and with the same dimensions as the GMTK box in the late 40's. They were everywhere! They would've been perfect for the Master Mechanics Sets they were offering to veterans at a huge discount. So I think it's possible that the box could be earlier. And of course they went back to brilliant Chinese Red after the war.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Aha! I was right. It is earlier. According to PL-4717, found in the back of a Catalog 19R 4th Printing that tin medic has graciously shared (and hopefully to be available on IA/ITCL eventually), it was offered at least as early as October 1947.

 

[bmwrd0]

I have one. I think it is a little older, possibly early wartime:

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I haven't ever found one in any of the wartime cats (19, 19-A, 19-R REPRINT), but I did just spot it in cat 19-R 3rd Printing - which I date to no earlier than 10/1946!

My hunch is these were something they introduced shortly after the war.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I wouldn’t mind having one of those.

Totally. I have 1/2, 3/8, 1/4, and 9/32 sets, but they have their own boxes. I could use a catch all box for all the other stuff.

I have one

Indeed. And now I surely remember seeing those photos before, too. I'm sorry I forgot.

 

[d42jeep]

Totally. I have 1/2, 3/8, 1/4, and 9/32 sets, but they have their own boxes. I could use a catch all box for all the other stuff.

I have the same situation going on. I ended up using an earlier 9989 for the catch all box for the chrome tools that would be more period appropriate for the box that Honza has.
-Don

 

[bmwrd0]

It's kinda funny. The day I found that 100R, I was at an antique fair, and picked it up early in the day. But later that same day we swung by an antique mall that was around the corner as they were having a sale to match the fair, and low and behold a very late, painted top 9989 was there. And as it was late in the day, they let it go pretty cheap. I will get a pic of it later, but there are some earlier in the thread. I keep my pebble tools in it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

As some of you Garage Sailers may know, I snagged this PASCHALL 1302 (2 oz.) ball-pein at the flea market this morning. May 1942 ("EB") if you believe in Twertsy's (and Krusty's) letter-letter code work, which I do. I know they're old hat for many of you, and grow on trees for some of you (e.g., RagTopTA), but this is actually my first ever. And I was pretty shocked to see it.

 

[honza.vosalik]

I have the same situation going on. I ended up using an earlier 9989 for the catch all box for the chrome tools that would be more period appropriate for the box that Honza has.
-Don

@dj42jeep: Don, just sell me those wrenches so I can put them in my period correct box

 

[RagTopTA]

As some of you Garage Sailers may know, I snagged this PASCHALL 1302 (2 oz.) ball-pein at the flea market this morning. May 1942 ("EB") if you believe in Twertsy's (and Krusty's) letter-letter code work, which I do. I know they're old hat for many of you, and grow on trees for some of you (e.g., RagTopTA), but this is actually my first ever. And I was pretty shocked to see it.

Love Paschall Hammers!! Congratulations in the find!! I hope you find many more in the wild, and they are cheap!

 

[d42jeep]

It would be much easier for you to sell me your new box. It took me a little while to gather those pebble wrenches. I’ll be driving by your area in a couple of weeks.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Don, just sell me those wrenches

It would be much easier for you to sell me your new box.

Love Paschall Hammers!!

We know!

Do you have a 2-ozer? I searched the thread on "1302" and that only turned up a Vaughan that ssdave thought Paschall (which means Plomb) made for them. I searched all 'Paschall' posts, but people aren't specific enough about weight and part number when they post. I looked at your group shot post, linked here, and I see several tiny ones on the left, but I can't tell by relative size if they're 2-ozers or 4-ozers.

This one weighs 3.2 ozs with the handle.

 

[d42jeep]

My larger one is around 1 lb. I weighed my smaller one at 5 Oz. I really like the original handle on your new one!
-Don

 

[bmwrd0]

I found this little guy this afternoon:

 

[Boogerman]

Rarely find things don't already have. Today added two to stuff I collect.

 

[Catfishdan]

As some of you Garage Sailers may know, I snagged this PASCHALL 1302 (2 oz.) ball-pein at the flea market this morning. May 1942 ("EB") if you believe in Twertsy's (and Krusty's) letter-letter code work, which I do. I know they're old hat for many of you, and grow on trees for some of you (e.g., RagTopTA), but this is actually my first ever. And I was pretty shocked to see it.

Dang. That thing is huge. Twice the size of my paschall. Nice score!

 

[consti2tion]

Accidentally put this up in the Proto thread, will add it here.

Picked up this 12" Plombaloy on eBay recently. Has a phillips screw holding the worm gear in, will find a new set screw or modify the phillips.

Looking forward to showing off my eBay purchase of DBE from Twertsy when it arrives. I think I got a stellar deal on them considering I have actually been looking for a set to use.

 

[d42jeep]

I’ve been known to hacksaw the head off of the machine screw and cut a slot to duplicate the original set screw. Since the Plomb adjustable wrenches are rare, you could probably use a set screw from an earlier Danielson 12” adjustable or a newer Proto 12” version if the machine screw modification doesn’t work out.
-Don

 

[honza.vosalik]

Couple more pictures of the 100HR

 

[consti2tion]

I’ve been known to hacksaw the head off of the machine screw and cut a slot to duplicate the original set screw. Since the Plomb adjustable wrenches are rare, you could probably use a set screw from an earlier Danielson 12” adjustable or a newer Proto 12” version if the machine screw modification doesn’t work out.
-Don

Excellent tip! thank you.

 

[RagTopTA]

We know!

Do you have a 2-ozer? I searched the thread on "1302" and that only turned up a Vaughan that ssdave thought Paschall (which means Plomb) made for them. I searched all 'Paschall' posts, but people aren't specific enough about weight and part number when they post. I looked at your group shot post, linked here, and I see several tiny ones on the left, but I can't tell by relative size if they're 2-ozers or 4-ozers.

This one weighs 3.2 ozs with the handle.

Heres a group shot of 6 dif sizes. I have a few doubles. And the same set in P&C as well I think. I labeled them with part number and date code. The far left is a 1 oz 1301 (cant see any date code), 2nd from left 2oz 1302, etc. Looks as if someone may have rehandled yours with a bigger paschall handle. (On further investigation, 2 of my P&C 1302 models have dif sized handles! The 1 and 2 oz seem to have very skinny handles. What do you know about the date codes? I am missing the 1306 6oz, 1324 1.5 lbs, 1332 2 lbs, 1348 3 lbs midels.

Ps the 1313 is a 1312.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What do you know about the date codes?

Summary of AA number-letter era dating:
PLOMB LA - 7,8,9,0,1,2,3 (1927-1933)
PLVMB LA - 4,5,6,7,8 (1934-1938)
PLVMB USA - 9,0,1,2 (1939-1941)

AA has ignored PLVMB USA tools with letter-letter codes. Todd and others have proposed a theory for them, which asserts that they are all wartime. Although some chrome tools have letter-letter codes, seemingly busting their logic, that is not enough, in my opinion, to dismiss the system, which is incredibly compelling, with an overwhelming number of examples.

Summary of Tool Archives letter-letter dating:
LA: December 1941
AB - LB: Jan 1942 - Dec 1942
AC - LC:- Jan 1943 - Dec 1943
AD - LD: Jan 1944 - Dec 1944
AE - ?E: Jan 1945 - ? 1945

 

[Provincial]

Chrome tools with two letter dates could be left-over wartime-made inventory that was run through the chrome vats after the war. Why make a whole new wrench when you could clean and chrome it for a fraction of the cost of making a new one from scratch?

 

[d42jeep]

I have lots of chrome examples of supposed 1943 wartime dated tools. As I have stated before, I am not a believer. Those letters could just indicate which of the many facilities manufacturered that particular tool.
-Don

 

[Ricky Joe]

Summary of AA number-letter era dating:
PLOMB LA - 7,8,9,0,1,2,3 (1927-1933)
PLVMB LA - 4,5,6,7,8 (1934-1938)
PLVMB USA - 9,0,1,2 (1939-1941)

AA has ignored PLVMB USA tools with letter-letter codes. Todd and others have proposed a theory for them, which asserts that they are all wartime. Although some chrome tools have letter-letter codes, seemingly busting their logic, that is not enough, in my opinion, to dismiss the system, which is incredibly compelling, with an overwhelming number of examples.

Summary of Tool Archives letter-letter dating:
LA: December 1941
AB - LB: Jan 1942 - Dec 1942
AC - LC:- Jan 1943 - Dec 1943
AD - LD: Jan 1944 - Dec 1944
AE - ?E: Jan 1945 - ? 1945

If “LA” is wartime only, there would have been a very narrow window of about three weeks not counting holidays to conceive and implement a wartime code system. If the code is accurate, my guess is that it would have been something planned for 1941 that happened to coincide with the war. My Plomb from before the war is not chrome, so possibly the initiation of the code is coincidental. I have chrome Blue Point dated 1942 and 1945, so before wartime restrictions were implemented and after they were lifted. Just conjecture.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

There were also chrome plating exceptions, Jock, especially in the USAAF, similar to composition exceptions. As I have said before, it's far more difficult, and realistically implausible, to try to come up with another explanation for how well the letters match up with months and years than to accept exceptions. It's too massively and intricately perfect to be coincidental.

Edit: It should be emphasized that the system is not only inclusive, but exclusive. There are no known examples of MB-ZB, MC-ZC, or MD-ZD. Like Bonney, JPD, and other who used the alphabet, they go from A to L only. 12 months. Likewise, there are no examples of tools with an F. So, again, 'the first letter just happens to align precisely with months, and the second letter just happens to align only with the same duration (4 years) of WWII,' is just unacceptably implausible for me.

 

[d42jeep]

I have no argument with prewar Plomb numerical dating. It is inarguably correct, at least to 1941. Had there been no wartime metal restrictions, I would be more inclined to buy into the wartIme dating theory. Probably half of my B and C examples are clearly chrome plated. That ends this repetitive discussion for me. Everyone is free to form their own opinions.
-Don

 

[Outlawmws]

I'm betting the change also had to do with a moratorium of any warranty on the tools, hence a second reason to change the date code, as well as designating tools made during the materials restrictions.