nadogail
Well-known member
May you enjoy the Good Health and your PNW Compound for many years.
Above 1200 Sq/FT PNW off grid compound
- Thread starter sjvicker
- Start date
Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.
Adaylate
Well-known member
Yep, I know that "switch" is coming sooner than later!
Are you still contemplating a saw mill?
Are you still contemplating a saw mill?
Adaylate
Well-known member
The mill should be exciting!
Looking forward to a report.
Looking forward to a report.
Last week I painted and installed the garage door and got final permit signoff! The inspectors I've worked with have been solid, easy going and good at communicating what they wanted to see along the way. I definitely get the impression that pulling permits isn't the norm in my area and they're just happy to see someone trying to do the right thing.
There's definitely more work on the shed punchlist (epoxy floor, ceiling, insulation, solar equipment closet, water filtration closet) but the bulk of the work is done.
I learned a ton painting the doors as I've never sprayed doors before. The first thing being just how much is floating around in the air and will stick to the wet paint so next time I'll be doing it inside. Second, painting a dark color on white ***** down the paint faster than I expected. 2 coats on this door and the man door were a full gallon of paint. The third is just how hard it is to get a paint match for dark colored metal, it took Lowes about an hour and a half and a messed up gallon to get it right.
There's definitely more work on the shed punchlist (epoxy floor, ceiling, insulation, solar equipment closet, water filtration closet) but the bulk of the work is done.
I learned a ton painting the doors as I've never sprayed doors before. The first thing being just how much is floating around in the air and will stick to the wet paint so next time I'll be doing it inside. Second, painting a dark color on white ***** down the paint faster than I expected. 2 coats on this door and the man door were a full gallon of paint. The third is just how hard it is to get a paint match for dark colored metal, it took Lowes about an hour and a half and a messed up gallon to get it right.
billconner
Well-known member
nice job!
rd65
Well-known member
When my shop received it final inspection the county, Snohomish, was out within 10 days taking pics to add to my assessor page for taxes.
I'm now at a point where I'm waiting on the county for the shop permit and unfortunately it took 6 weeks to get through the SEPA and they estimated 6 more to approve the shop permit. I'm almost 4 weeks in and they still haven't even called to ask for permit payment. I really wanted to get my foundation in this year but at this point I'm worried that by the time they approve and then I can schedule it I will be into the rainy season and I'll have to pay a bunch more to get a temp driveway put in for the concrete trucks and pumper. At this point the shop is probably going to be put on hold until next year.
It's disappointing but it just means I need to pivot and work on different projects through the fall/winter. Next up on the project list is to finalize the well pump electrical wiring, pump solar panels and running plumbing over to the shed where the water filtration system will be.
We did finish the shop rough grading and get the corners marked out so its ready for a final grade and foundation work whenever we get permit approval.
It's disappointing but it just means I need to pivot and work on different projects through the fall/winter. Next up on the project list is to finalize the well pump electrical wiring, pump solar panels and running plumbing over to the shed where the water filtration system will be.
We did finish the shop rough grading and get the corners marked out so its ready for a final grade and foundation work whenever we get permit approval.
The weather was decent so I spent last weekend trenching and running conduit and water line from the well head to the shed. I dont really know where my finished grade will be with a driveway and maybe a ditch/culvert so I buried everything about 3' deep to keep it out of the way of future projects.
The well pump is a DC pump from RPS solar systems and with 800w of solar I can pump about 1100 gallons up to the cistern on a sunny summer day. I plan to upgrade to 1200w of solar and max out the charge controller so I can get a little more flow on our cloudy PNW days. It's a little tough to see in the photo but the 1" line and the 1.25" line connect at a T and then one line goes up the hill which gives me about 40psi of water pressure at the well head.
In hindsight I wish I would have run two lines up the hill so I have one feeding up and one coming down. For my first setup I used a check valve at the bottom of the cistern and filled water into the top with the intention of having a float shutoff that would trigger a pressure switch at the well head. In practice the check valve didn't seem to operate as smoothly as I would have liked and it took about 300 gallons behind it before it would open and operate correctly meaning that I lost that capacity in the cistern. RPS makes a solar powered radio transmitter that I'll upgrade to. It mounts to the top of a cistern that speaks to their solar charge controller and tells it to stop pumping when the cisterns are full.
The well pump is a DC pump from RPS solar systems and with 800w of solar I can pump about 1100 gallons up to the cistern on a sunny summer day. I plan to upgrade to 1200w of solar and max out the charge controller so I can get a little more flow on our cloudy PNW days. It's a little tough to see in the photo but the 1" line and the 1.25" line connect at a T and then one line goes up the hill which gives me about 40psi of water pressure at the well head.
In hindsight I wish I would have run two lines up the hill so I have one feeding up and one coming down. For my first setup I used a check valve at the bottom of the cistern and filled water into the top with the intention of having a float shutoff that would trigger a pressure switch at the well head. In practice the check valve didn't seem to operate as smoothly as I would have liked and it took about 300 gallons behind it before it would open and operate correctly meaning that I lost that capacity in the cistern. RPS makes a solar powered radio transmitter that I'll upgrade to. It mounts to the top of a cistern that speaks to their solar charge controller and tells it to stop pumping when the cisterns are full.
Crazy how time flies. It's been 4 months since my last update and the only thing that's been completed in that time is the perk test, burying the conduit and running the well pump wires to the shed. Unfortunately I'm going to need a mound system for the septic but it is what it is. With the rains here and no intentional grading for water flow, that clay/dirt pad is now a complete mud pit and is almost unpassable so all projects there are on hold for a few more months.
Over the rainy months my focus has been on researching and prepping so I can hit the ground running when things dry up. To do this I've broken down my engineering into a lumber package I can quote in a few months and spec'ed out my solar system.
Unless something new hits the market in the next few months, here's what I'm planning for solar.
With the 4 inverters I can add up to 24,000w of additional panels or I can more add batteries to the system but there is a point where there is diminishing returns. For the panels, if they charge the batteries in a few hours on a sunny day but are only pulling in 1000w on a cloudy day, there is a huge expense and effort to pull in that extra 1000w on the cloudy day. It's a similar calculation for the batteries so this is where the generator comes in. Also, since I'll be on a dosing mound septic system and run water off a gravity fed cistern I want to have a generator anyways to keep from overflowing the septic.
Over the rainy months my focus has been on researching and prepping so I can hit the ground running when things dry up. To do this I've broken down my engineering into a lumber package I can quote in a few months and spec'ed out my solar system.
Unless something new hits the market in the next few months, here's what I'm planning for solar.
- 2 of these kits: https://signaturesolar.com/complete...plit-phase-12800-watts-of-solar-pv-kit-e0009/
- 4 extra EG4 48v 100ah batteries
- Propane generator backup (exact one TBD)
- Four 6000w panel arrays. Two ground mount arrays at 40ish deg angle for some winter solar and Two on the shop roof at 22.5deg for summer solar.
With the 4 inverters I can add up to 24,000w of additional panels or I can more add batteries to the system but there is a point where there is diminishing returns. For the panels, if they charge the batteries in a few hours on a sunny day but are only pulling in 1000w on a cloudy day, there is a huge expense and effort to pull in that extra 1000w on the cloudy day. It's a similar calculation for the batteries so this is where the generator comes in. Also, since I'll be on a dosing mound septic system and run water off a gravity fed cistern I want to have a generator anyways to keep from overflowing the septic.
What I've been struggling with. While its technically possible to build a system with enough solar/battery to ride out really cloudy days....at some point it just gets stupid expensive and makes sense to just run the genset for a bit....
Out of curiosity, why all the 6K inverters as opposed to a couple of the new 18k units?
demulsion
Member
Nice detailed posts with lessons learned, thank you! Looks like you're going to have quite a nice compound when you're done.
I have friends not far from you who are putting in a similar water setup. I'm going to have to check with them if they've heard of the RPS solar pump.
I have friends not far from you who are putting in a similar water setup. I'm going to have to check with them if they've heard of the RPS solar pump.
There's 3 reasons I dont want to go with the 18kw inverters.
- Being off grid I wont need the grid passthrough features of the 18kw units so its much more cost effective to stack 6kw inverters.
- I generally assume that there's no such thing as a warranty and replacing a 6kw will be much cheaper if there's a failure (although there are more potential parts to fail).
- Redundancy. I'm going for a system that will provide a grid tie level of power and dont want to "feel" like I'm off grid. If (when?) a 6kw inverter goes down I might have to a little mindful until I can get it fixed. If an 18kw goes down I'd lose half my capacity and have to go into conservation mode until I can get it repaired or replaced.
My plan is to still "pay" an electric bill of about $50-$75/mo which really just means earmarking savings for repairs and replacements as needed so when the time comes it doesn't feel like a big hit on the bank account.
I currently have a small (2kw solar, 3kw inverter, 24v) solar system at the property to support the property build out, camping and run Starlink. It's been adequate but needs some upgrades to support the transition to living full time there.
For the upgrades I decided to go with the same 6000XP inverter and EG4 battery that I'm looking at using for the full solar system. It was packaged very well and was easy to fire up and bench test that I'm getting 120v on each leg of the output. Also, it was already configured for 240v 60hz so that was a few less steps to do during initial startup.
I have a Victron charge controller that can charge up to 48v battery packs as part of the current system. I'm going to keep this as part of the system for now to charge the new EG4 battery because the panels are already in the correct series/parallel configuration for it and the wires/breaker are an easy swap to the EG4 battery.
Future solar racking. Some assembly required.
For the upgrades I decided to go with the same 6000XP inverter and EG4 battery that I'm looking at using for the full solar system. It was packaged very well and was easy to fire up and bench test that I'm getting 120v on each leg of the output. Also, it was already configured for 240v 60hz so that was a few less steps to do during initial startup.
I have a Victron charge controller that can charge up to 48v battery packs as part of the current system. I'm going to keep this as part of the system for now to charge the new EG4 battery because the panels are already in the correct series/parallel configuration for it and the wires/breaker are an easy swap to the EG4 battery.
Future solar racking. Some assembly required.
Life has been busy with moving to the property so there hasn't been too much to report on the shop build but now the move is done and its time to get going on the shop.
I had my grading contractor come back and dig out for the shop foundation. He will be adding some rock today and the foundation contractor comes tomorrow. It sounds like we can move pretty quick with the foundation and stem wall pours then my grading guy will bring in rock and compact it so we're ready for the slab.
My goal is to be standing up walls the week of July 8th and then I have friends helping set trusses the weekend of July 12-14.
I had my grading contractor come back and dig out for the shop foundation. He will be adding some rock today and the foundation contractor comes tomorrow. It sounds like we can move pretty quick with the foundation and stem wall pours then my grading guy will bring in rock and compact it so we're ready for the slab.
My goal is to be standing up walls the week of July 8th and then I have friends helping set trusses the weekend of July 12-14.
Pretty solid progress over the past week. The foundation contractor started Thursday and was ready to schedule the first inspection by the end of the day on Friday, the lumber package was delivered and I was able to get the well pump solar panels installed on the shed.
Also, aside from a little project here and there to make camp living easier, camp is now 100% set up so all energy will go into the build.
The foundation contractors goal is to be complete this week but the downpour we've had over the past day might delay that a little. On my end its a busy work week with some travel so progress might be fairly limited. Top priority is to get the shed floor cleaned off and ready to pour epoxy on Saturday and after that the the goal is to build the nail laminated posts for the shop and two closets in the shed to house the electrical system and water filtration systems.
Also, aside from a little project here and there to make camp living easier, camp is now 100% set up so all energy will go into the build.
The foundation contractors goal is to be complete this week but the downpour we've had over the past day might delay that a little. On my end its a busy work week with some travel so progress might be fairly limited. Top priority is to get the shed floor cleaned off and ready to pour epoxy on Saturday and after that the the goal is to build the nail laminated posts for the shop and two closets in the shed to house the electrical system and water filtration systems.
The panels are mounted on the standing seam using S-5-N brackets from S-5. These brackets rely on pinching the seam and do deform the metal roofing when installed and torqued down. From there I used adjustable eco worthy 41" adjustable mounts from Amazon and unistrut on top of that. From a cost standpoint this is definitely not efficient and just the brackets, hardware and racking cost about as much as the panels themselves.
I need to find a more cost effective mounting method moving forward and will probably look into the S-5 PVkit-2-0 but the panels sit so close to the roof I have concerns about debris piling up under them.
I need to find a more cost effective mounting method moving forward and will probably look into the S-5 PVkit-2-0 but the panels sit so close to the roof I have concerns about debris piling up under them.
The foundation is moving along well and the company expects to pour the stem wall on Tuesday.
I originally planned to be doing this work myself and not on a time crunch so I had the engineer spec the Midwest Permacolumn drill set brackets. The logic here was that I wouldn't have to manage getting the brackets set perfectly while also managing a foundation pour. It was a solid plan but since I hired a pro to do the foundation I should have had my engineering amended and had the pro's use a wet set bracket as it would have been much less work for me. The cost difference in the bracket types would have probably been offset by the additional labor to do the wet set brackets too.
Live and learn. The house will be wet set brackets.
I originally planned to be doing this work myself and not on a time crunch so I had the engineer spec the Midwest Permacolumn drill set brackets. The logic here was that I wouldn't have to manage getting the brackets set perfectly while also managing a foundation pour. It was a solid plan but since I hired a pro to do the foundation I should have had my engineering amended and had the pro's use a wet set bracket as it would have been much less work for me. The cost difference in the bracket types would have probably been offset by the additional labor to do the wet set brackets too.
Live and learn. The house will be wet set brackets.
billconner
Well-known member
Progress looks exciting. Congrats!
Over the weekend we finished the epoxy floor in the shed that will house the solar component and water filtration.
I used Armorpoxy for this and previously I've only used the Rustoleum kits. The Armorpoxy is definitely a different class of product and I'm extremely happy with the kit and how the floor turned out. The only issue was on my end being a novice to spreading the flakes so there's a few spots that have a bit too much.
I used Armorpoxy for this and previously I've only used the Rustoleum kits. The Armorpoxy is definitely a different class of product and I'm extremely happy with the kit and how the floor turned out. The only issue was on my end being a novice to spreading the flakes so there's a few spots that have a bit too much.
The foundation is in and the grading contractor has been working on backfill. It's awesome to see something that was just a sketch on graph paper a few years ago start to really come together.
In the meantime I've been working on the nail laminated posts and have 11 of 44 done.
In the meantime I've been working on the nail laminated posts and have 11 of 44 done.
Adaylate
Well-known member
That's great progress! It sure is looking good.
Are you using a nail gun for the posts? That's a lotta nails.
My gutters are going up as we speak and the floor will be poured tomorrow...
Are you using a nail gun for the posts? That's a lotta nails.
My gutters are going up as we speak and the floor will be poured tomorrow...
Adaylate
Well-known member
That would have been a lotta hand nails! 
It's always exciting when a plan starts coming together!
It's always exciting when a plan starts coming together!
Adaylate
Well-known member
PM sent.
They did about 32 yds. Saturday.
Started at 7 and the last finisher was going down the driveway at 330p.
They did about 32 yds. Saturday.
Started at 7 and the last finisher was going down the driveway at 330p.
Last Friday we were able to get the last of the posts nailed off and the the trusses were delivered. I was planning and ordered 3/12 trusses and the supplier decided to send me 4/12 so with some quick measurements and negotiation I accepted the 4/12 and a decent reduction in price.
We spent the weekend marking and building truss assemblies. 4 out of 8 are complete right now and I'm trying to get the rest done during the evenings this week. The goal here is to do as much work on the ground as possible.
From all of my research, this design is pretty unique to the PNW where two trusses are built into an assembly using blocking then they fit over the posts on blocking that's screwed into the sides of the posts.
We spent the weekend marking and building truss assemblies. 4 out of 8 are complete right now and I'm trying to get the rest done during the evenings this week. The goal here is to do as much work on the ground as possible.
From all of my research, this design is pretty unique to the PNW where two trusses are built into an assembly using blocking then they fit over the posts on blocking that's screwed into the sides of the posts.
rd65
Well-known member
So something like this? The center three posts have double trusses. Spane put this up for me. I'm east of Everett. 32'w x 28'd. They told me I could put a ceiling in it so I did using 3/8" plywood and blow in insulation. Anything I have in attic space is on either end where the span is only 5'.Last Friday we were able to get the last of the posts nailed off and the the trusses were delivered. I was planning and ordered 3/12 trusses and the supplier decided to send me 4/12 so with some quick measurements and negotiation I accepted the 4/12 and a decent reduction in price.
We spent the weekend marking and building truss assemblies. 4 out of 8 are complete right now and I'm trying to get the rest done during the evenings this week. The goal here is to do as much work on the ground as possible.
From all of my research, this design is pretty unique to the PNW where two trusses are built into an assembly using blocking then they fit over the posts on blocking that's screwed into the sides of the posts.
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Yup, exactly like that except I'm on 8' centers with 2x4 perlins and my engineer didn't spec out connecting the truss webbing in any way. I'll connect the bottom cords of the trusses like yours is as they're still pretty floppy without that blocking.
You must have garage doors on the side wall, that's the only reason why I can think they wouldn't have gone with 8' spans and 2x4 perlins to save some $ on materials. It's also interesting they bought posts that were that much longer than necessary, that's quite a bit of profit margin that will get cut off as scrap.
strokinhorns
Active member
When I built my pole barn, I ordered the posts long so I could use them to hoist up the trusses. I built the middle bays 2’ off the ground and lifted the entire assembly with 6 come alongs. I had a friend on an extension ladder on each post and lifted it all together.
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That's a cool way to do it and definitely much cheaper than any equipment rentals. For setting my trusses I'm renting a telehandler and a scissor and have a friend I trust lined up to drive the telehandler while I'm in the scissor with a tag line on the end of the truss. I've seen it on youtube a few times so I'm pretty much an expert now.
Adaylate
Well-known member
Give me a call. There is local guy with a boom truck that might work for you.
LopezBart
Well-known member
To lift our metal trusses we added an 16' extension made from 4 2x6s onto one of the fork tines on our loader, and then suspended it w/ webbing. Shade tree, but the numbers punched out ok and it worked fine, albeit w/ a very light hand on the controls.
rd65
Well-known member
New 32x28 shop building almost finished
This project started back in November 2017 when I called for quotes from a couple of local pole building contractors. I chose Spane from Mt Vernon even though they were a bit more than the other guy from Lynnwood, Wa. The salesman from Lynnwood was less than helpful. After some dealings with my...
www.garagejournal.com
Great way to do it. Anytime you can use the equipment you have and save on rentals seems to be the winner, even if it takes a little while. I'm at about 26' to the peak and the truss assemblies are around 650lbs so i'm out of the range of any of the skid steer truss booms.
The truss assemblies are done and in order to be installed so its on to the post bracket install. The foundation is 1/4" out corner to corner and I need to verify there's no waviness to the stem walls before anchoring the brackets. To the eye they look dead on and even that 1/4" is likely just a measurement error on my part with how hard I pulled the tape.
I was worried about this being square as I've read too many posts on here over the years about foundations being out.
I was worried about this being square as I've read too many posts on here over the years about foundations being out.