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"Pre-Block" Grinders--Where's the Love?

RiseAbove

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Yes, when turned by hand, you may hear a light scraping sound. The click is only heard near the end of wind-down after switching off the motor.

I'm not sure when the centrifugal switch was replaced by a relay.

The left side has LH threads, the right side has RH threads. You may need to use a pair of jam nuts to help in removing a stubborn nut.
Reinstall the left side wheel and nut and use it to loosen the right side. Then install two RH thread jam nuts on the right side to remove the left nut. Then loosen and remove the jam nuts. If you don't have a spare on hand, you may need to buy one nut, but RH nuts are more common and less expensive.

Great, thanks. I wasn't looking forward to completly tearing it down looking for the problem that was causing the noise.

It seems to spin up and down real smoothly, and there is no play in the shaft, so should i not bother replacing the bearings? Can they be lubricated, or are they factory sealed and lubricared?
 
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FrankLee

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Great, thanks. I wasn't looking forward to completly tearing it down looking for the problem that was causing the noise.

It seems to spin up and down real smoothly, and there is no play in the shaft, so should i not bother replacing the bearings? Can they be lubricated, or are they factory sealed and lubricared?

It's still possible that your noise could be something other than the c-switch, so that can really only be your call.

Same with the bearings. If they don't feel gritty or dry, then you're likely ok to continue using them. If wind-down time is really long (2 minutes?), there are differing opinions on whether the bearings need to be replaced. Some think long wind-down time means NO lubrication in the bearing. Bearing temperature after, say 10 minutes of run-time, may also be an indicator. Hot bearings may mean no lubrication.


I believe OE grinder bearings are shielded. I've had some success applying oil to shielded bearings by clamping the shaft in a vertical position and letting oil seep into the space between the shield and the inner race.
 
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RiseAbove

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It's still possible that your noise could be something other than the c-switch, so that can really only be your call.

Same with the bearings. If they don't feel gritty or dry, then you're likely ok to continue using them. If wind-down time is really long (2 minutes?), there are differing opinions on whether the bearings need to be replaced. Some think long wind-down time means NO lubrication in the bearing. Bearing temperature after, say 10 minutes of run-time, may also be an indicator. Hot bearings may mean no lubrication.


I believe OE grinder bearings are shielded. I've had some success applying oil to shielded bearings by clamping the shaft in a vertical position and letting oil seep into the space between the shield and the inner race.


Are they any parts i could check over in case it isn't the c-switch?

That lubrication method sounds good, i'll give it a shot. Do you just use a regular 3 in 1, or something synthetic or something?

I just found your block restore thread. I liked the outlet on the rear and the On/Off stickers. Great work :beer:
 

FrankLee

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Are they any parts i could check over in case it isn't the c-switch?

That lubrication method sounds good, i'll give it a shot. Do you just use a regular 3 in 1, or something synthetic or something?

I just found your block restore thread. I liked the outlet on the rear and the On/Off stickers. Great work :beer:

If it's not the switch, it's difficult to say what parts to check. Perhaps someone else has a suggestion.

I have used 3-in-One Multi-Purpose Oil and also 3-in-One SAE 20 Oil for Motors. I don't use synthetic unless I completely clean out the old factory grease and repack.
 

torqueman2002

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Hi Jim (FL). That's pretty much my take on the noise, that is without opening it up for a look see.


I find using a cordless impact to remove the arbor nuts works very well. Of course, it goes without saying, I hand tighten when I reassemble. :lol_hitti
Good luck Rise, be sure to keep us updated. We (I) like pictures, too.
:)
 

RiseAbove

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Just drove out to pick up this '62 1/4hp for $30. Fires right up, and powers down nicely. Needs a clean up, but no cracks that i can see. It is missing the side covers, but has the eye shields and tool rests, so not a bad trade off i guess. Should go nice with the '55 1/2hp.
 

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cajunfirehawk

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Cajun: since you have so many NEW IN THE BOX VINTAGE GRINDERS have you ever thought of just tearing into them like it's CHRISTMAS and setting a few up with different wheels to use even though you probably have twice that many old grinders in decent shape? or is that your Savings account hedging against inflation?

that old gold pre-block is only 10 months younger than me and it looks a whole lot better.
I have all I can use, why tear into those in the box? See the underlined above, I am 6 yrs away from retirement, maybe by then these will be like Wilton vises are now??? :beer:

PS- these are old pics, I may have picked up one or two more... :lol_hitti


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RiseAbove

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Awesome collection Cajun.

Do you have one of the '49 style (not sure how long it ran) with the badge/label above the power cord and the center mounted On/Off switch?
 

RiseAbove

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I am no expert on those but from the ones I have seen, most of them don't come with side covers, Dr Torque may have a more definitive answer for you?
You're right. I just took a look, and it has the cast molding where the cover would mount, but it's not tapped/threaded on this model.
 

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torqueman2002

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You're right. I just took a look, and it has the cast molding where the cover would mount, but it's not tapped/threaded on this model.
Mine looks like that too.

BTW - I did a quick look for it today, but no luck. I must have squirreled it away really good.
 
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cajunfirehawk

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Awesome collection Cajun.

Do you have one of the '49 style (not sure how long it ran) with the badge/label above the power cord and the center mounted On/Off switch?
This is the only preblock I own and after I got this one I stopped looking for any more preblocks. So I guess that is a NO :(

25098353548_f37838335e_b.jpg

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RiseAbove

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Mine looks like that too.

BTW - I did a quick look for it today, but no luck. I must have squirreled it away really good.

How many pre and regular blocks do you have in your collection?

I just realised mine is the brown color and has the basic non machined trim plate...i originally thought it was just badly corroded!

:beer:

This is the only preblock I own and after I got this one I stopped looking for any more preblocks. So I guess that is a NO :(

25098353548_f37838335e_b.jpg

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I'd probably quit looking too if i got one in that good of a shape...although drill press and grinder hunting has suddenly become a 'thing' for me in the past couple of months.

This is the style i mentioned. I've always wanted one, but pre blocks are already pretty hard to find, so trying to find one of these is a tough goal. Does anyone know the years these ran...i seem to remember seeing one listed as a '49.
 

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RiseAbove

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I've seen a couple pop up but they are always missing everything and beat to hell.

The nice complete ones must fetch a crazy amount.

Good luck on getting that answer :bounce:, that is one area of block info you will not get from our fearless block ring leader, kinda like where Hoffa is buried :thumbup:

:bounce:

I have the same deal going on with my SO.

HER: 'Another one...don't you have a handful already?!'

ME: 'Yeah, but they're designed to be able to grind a specific material...so i need one for each material'

HER: 'Oh, ok'

That's my scam and i'm riding it out until she questions someone in a big box store about it :bounce:
 

torqueman2002

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The nice complete ones must fetch a crazy amount.
:bounce:

I have the same deal going on with my SO.

HER: 'Another one...don't you have a handful already?!'

ME: 'Yeah, but they're designed to be able to grind a specific material...so i need one for each material'

HER: 'Oh, ok'

That's my scam and i'm riding it out until she questions someone in a big box store about it :bounce:
Haha, I get the same question from Mrs. Torqueman.

attachment.php


I don't mind answering that question about how many.

It's just that my XL tracking sheet is not up to date. So, I estimate between 5 and 500. ;)

BTW _ Mrs. T just said they are multiplying in the basement workshop. :lol:
 

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RiseAbove

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Haha, I get the same question from Mrs. Torqueman.

I don't mind answering that question about how many.

It's just that my XL tracking sheet is not up to date. So, I estimate between 5 and 500. ;)

BTW _ Mrs. T just said they are multiplying in the basement workshop. :lol:

:bounce::bounce:

I envision this on the rare occasions i get to pull the wool over my girls eyes :bounce:

cheers-opn4.jpg
 
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jerryd67

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Some before and after pics of my little 1959 model 1/4 hp model 115-19500.

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The complete restore thread is in my signature line.
 

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gatewaysysop

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Here's mine, scored this at a yard sale a number of years ago, $20 I believe. Seems to be pretty complete, and runs like it's still new. Definitely do not see many of these around here, in fact I'm not even sure if I've seen one since I acquired this one:

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Lwel9226

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So Oregon
I just found this thread today.... I have been missing out...
I have a 1/3 block that I bought new in about 1965... I also have what I now know as a pre-block in 1/4 horse, that I picked up at a yard sale 4 or 5 years ago for $8.00.... It is complete and runs good except for the glass in 1 eye shield....

The GJ continues to amaze me almost daily.... THANK YOU :bowdown: :bowdown:

LynnW
 

Lwel9226

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So Oregon
Yesterday I had never even heard the word "Pre-Block".... Today I acquired a second one. It is a 1/4 horse that has had a rough life... :( There are no tool rests and no eye shields, and the righthand nut and 1 washer are missing, and it has been poorly stored and rough use, but it runs and sounds good....
Best of all the price was right.... FREE... :thumbup: :thumbup:

LynnW
 

bubinga

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Bridgeport Ohio. (Across River From Wheeling WV)
Yesterday I had never even heard the word "Pre-Block".... Today I acquired a second one. It is a 1/4 horse that has had a rough life... :( There are no tool rests and no eye shields, and the righthand nut and 1 washer are missing, and it has been poorly stored and rough use, but it runs and sounds good....
Best of all the price was right.... FREE... :thumbup: :thumbup:

LynnW
Good Deal, on the plus side, the right hand nut should be standard right hand thread.
 

Old Radar

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San Antonio, TX
I picked this 1959 1/2 HP 155.7575 up at an estate sale last week for $40 including the homemade farming disc stand. I'm in the process of researching and restoring it.

Someone made a comment about a 3-minute spin down and inferred that anything less than 2 minutes of spin down time indicated the bearings should be changed. I'm fairly sure mine has not been used in a long time and it spun down in about 17 seconds with the stone and wire wheels on. After I removed them--and a couple of big washers on the wire side that were doing nothing except causing vibrations, the bare shafts stop in 27 seconds after about a full minute run up. After performing this test multiple times the time increases a little but nothing over 30 seconds.

The thing that has me scratching my head is even after doing this over and over, I put my fingers on the bearings and they are completely cool. So is 30 seconds about right or do I need to change bearings?

Grinder1%202_zpsv3kxavpd.jpg


Grinder3_zpskxlxxsmh.jpg


Grinder2_zpsxmlktiro.jpg
 

QwikKotaTx

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Seabrook, TX
I believe I have that same grinder and it seems to work just fine. I don't believe it spins for a full 3 minutes after turned off but it's at least 30 seconds.

Does anyone have a picture of a restored example?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
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exmaxima1

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I believe I have that same grinder and it seems to work just fine. I don't believe it spins for a full 3 minutes after turned off but it's at least 30 seconds.

As I noted in my original post when I started this thread, the Pre-Block grinders employ a centrifugal switch for the start winding. When the machine spools down the switch collar eventually drops back and the drag reduces the time.
 

macgee

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I picked this 1959 1/2 HP 155.7575 up at an estate sale last week for $40 including the homemade farming disc stand. I'm in the process of researching and restoring it.

Someone made a comment about a 3-minute spin down and inferred that anything less than 2 minutes of spin down time indicated the bearings should be changed. I'm fairly sure mine has not been used in a long time and it spun down in about 17 seconds with the stone and wire wheels on. After I removed them--and a couple of big washers on the wire side that were doing nothing except causing vibrations, the bare shafts stop in 27 seconds after about a full minute run up. After performing this test multiple times the time increases a little but nothing over 30 seconds.

The thing that has me scratching my head is even after doing this over and over, I put my fingers on the bearings and they are completely cool. So is 30 seconds about right or do I need to change bearings?

You're fine and please don't listen to that 2 minute plus rule, it's rubbish.

I have had over 8-10 of these same grinders in various condition (including new old stock) and never had any of them spin more than a 30 seconds at most, including my three very nice Baldor buffers and grinders.

Cajunfirehawk in this thread is the best one to ask, he has a load of these in excellent condition.

EDIT: Read exmaxima1 post above.

One way to tell if the bearings are bad by the sound of machine while spinning especially when turning it on and off. Do you hear any whine and metal sounds? When listening to grinder when turning on, does it turn on, spin and then quickly settle to a smooth constant sound? Slightly bent spindles can also cause noise and bad performance and ruin bearings.
When turned off you can also turn the spindles close to the bearings with your hand and feel for roughness in bearings while very slowly turning them. Feeling bearings after use for excessive heat is also very good idea like you said but bearings and spindle can heat up under normal conditions.

By your description, it sounds like you have a nice grinder. Use it and enjoy.


Now, it's very normal for large (14", more like 20"+) disc sanders to do this like an Apex and other large industrial disc sanders and can have a brake on them to make them stop spinning for safety purposes as they can spin for over 10-20 minutes after power is off.


PS> Your cast iron base and tool rests on that grinder are very desired. Nice find.
 
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paulm12

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I picked up this 1/4 HP unit recently, for $12. I think need to replace the bearings, they spin forever on wind down, and sound/feel a bit gravely (??). I asked Matt to do a label, and he said this version is new for him, so he would have to go through the whole process. Does anyone else want this version label if I have him do one for me?

Thanks
 

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exmaxima1

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I picked up this 1/4 HP unit recently, for $12. I think need to replace the bearings, they spin forever on wind down, and sound/feel a bit gravely (??). I asked Matt to do a label, and he said this version is new for him, so he would have to go through the whole process. Does anyone else want this version label if I have him do one for me?

Thanks

That label looks in great shape as it is. It's only a 1/4hp model, and not worth much even when fully restored, so I wouldn't invest in a custom label. Of course, replace the bearings. The end bells look in great shape, and only need cleaning. Paint the center section and eyeshields, and put it to use. You got a GREAT DEAL!
 

macgee

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That label looks in great shape as it is. It's only a 1/4hp model, and not worth much even when fully restored, so I wouldn't invest in a custom label. Of course, replace the bearings. The end bells look in great shape, and only need cleaning. Paint the center section and eyeshields, and put it to use. You got a GREAT DEAL!

I totally agree with exmaxima1,

Matt does great work and thankful for his services but your orig. label looks really good and I would keep it.
 

paulm12

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Thanks for the replies exmaxima1 and macgee, you may have convinced me. I got anxious on this one after seeing jerryd67's restoration earlier this year. I am soaking the end castings in mild soap now, we'll see how they look cleaned up. I do want to paint the center section and eye shield frames. And I am also replacing the power cord, including a ground wire to the casting. I like the wiring work that he did.

Thanks again.
 

paulm12

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wondering how old this grinding wheel is that was on the grinder I just got (referenced above)? It did not have much use on it.
.
 

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torqueman2002

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paulm, It's a replacement stone, judging from the price tag. It's hard to say with any certainty.

I rarely use the stones that come with used Blocks. Exposure to moisture can weaken the bonding of vitrified stones, rendering them susceptible to flying apart at speed.

New stones are not expensive and are available from Grainger, Amazon, etc ...
 

paulm12

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Oh yes, TMan, I will replace. I just had noticed the crown logo, that is all. The price seems a bit high for that time period though, at least to me.

Thanks for reply.
 
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exmaxima1

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Oh yes, TMan, I will replace. I just had noticed the crown logo, that is all. The price seems a bit high for that time period though, at least to me.

Thanks for reply.

The price was high because that’s a wide stone with recessed mounting hole. Lucky your grinder had no end covers or it likely would not have fit.
 

Old Radar

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wondering how old this grinding wheel is that was on the grinder I just got (referenced above)? It did not have much use on it.
.

The same stone was on my 1/2 hp version with a 5/8 in arbor hole. It's definitely not designed for our Pre-Block grinders without modification because of the large recessed mounting hole. The PO had it set up with a worn-out wire wheel to cover over that area and enable use without spacers with the OEM wheel flange!

That said, the stone has no perceptible wear--probably because he was too afraid to use it like that!

Grinder Wheel1.jpg

Grinder Wheel2.jpg

Grinder Wheel3.jpg

Grinder Wheel4.jpg
 
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