Quincy 340 Rebuild

[EngineerNate]

Hi all,

Starting a fresh thread for this. I brought this home for $250 today. The owner brought it home from work but realized he was in over his head with 3 phase power etc. Time will tell if I did good or flushed two and a half big ones down the toilet. These compressors have been hard to find locally so I took a gamble on this one.

Tank is 120 gallons. Looks good from the outside. Couldn't get any of the inspection ports or bungs off to have a look at the inside.

The good:

Looks to have been used indoors. Very little surface rust.

Pump isn't overly dirty, and has signs of previous service, so hopefully it was reasonably cared for before it was retired and sold on and then resold to me. The oil in it wasn't super great but I've seen worse.

The bad:

1. Something is definitely loose in the bottom end. As it turns over there's a "clunk" once a revolution. I took off the inspection plate and there's nothing broken inside, so I'm hopeful it's fixable.

2. When it was moved, some bozo cut all the unloader copper lines. I'll need to buy/make replacements.

3. The motor on it is a 575v fixed voltage unit. Not usable.

At $250 I was willing to roll the dice. This thread will either become a cautionary tale or a nice rebuild log. Maybe both.



Cheers,
Nathan

 

[EngineerNate]

Nameplate:


Tank:

 

[yatg]

Looks like Quincy changed their website and took the parts manuals offline. At least I couldn't find them. Didn't have any 340 manuals downloaded.
Here's a link to a 340 manual ROC 106 that might be of general help

http://powerspecialtiespumps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Quincy-QR25-Model340.pdf

 

[EngineerNate]

Looks like Quincy changed their website and took the parts manuals offline. At least I couldn't find them. Didn't have any 340 manuals downloaded.
Here's a link to a 340 manual ROC 106 that might be of general help

http://powerspecialtiespumps.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Quincy-QR25-Model340.pdf

Thank you!

I sent an email in to Quincy to try to get the service manual for this ROC. I'm also curious about it's age so I've inquired after that as well. If I don't hear back I'll give them a ring, they were very helpful over the phone the last time I called.

My thinking regarding buying this one was nothing seemed unrepairable. I could spend another six months looking for a "you ****" on one that's in tip top shape, or do some mechanic work, keep a pump from ending up in the landfill, and learn something in the process, and in the end I'll have a freshly rebuilt unit that should be good for another hundred years or so.

Next steps:

1. Get this sucker unloaded into the garage.

2. Setup table next to pump for rebuild. I'm not about to haul this motor up the stairs into my basement.

3. Start tear down.

4. Begin hunt for motor once it's clear nothing here is totally fubared.

5. Pull all fittings from tank, inspect, clean, and hydro test.

6. Get garage subpanel installed.

7. Hopefully: pump go thwup thwup thwup.

Cheers,
Nathan

 

[EngineerNate]

Quincy got back to me fast!

ROC 32 was built in 1967! I'm even more impressed at the paint condition etc considering the age of the unit.

Here are the documents they were able to provide for this unit, for posterity.

 

[EngineerNate]

From Quincy:

This ROC 32 was built in 1967. The min- Max RPM is 400-900 at 200 psi standard build. with 5 hp motor 1750 RPM and 6.25" motor pulley and developing 18 acfm. With a 7.5 hp motor at 1750 rpm and 8.5" motor pulley the pump will develop 24.5 acfm.

 

[EngineerNate]

Just scored a nice Baldor 7.5 HP 1770rpm inverter rated motor in the same frame size as the existing motor on eBay for $300 shipped. Should work perfectly with the 15 HP Frenic Mini C2 I have on the way, and pulley size should be the same as the existing pulley so I should be set on the motor front.

Total investment so far:

Compressor: $250
Motor: $300
Drive: $600
AC Reactor: $38
DC Reactor: $77

An import 7.5 HP electric motor plus a decent magnetic starter would likely run me $6-700 total, so I'm a little behind vs a single phase setup, but the soft start and associated more neighborly startup current is worth it in my opinion.

Used single phase 7.5hp motors seem rare as hen's teeth and I'm a bit burnt out on the local used scene for now.

Cheers,
Nathan

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Be careful you're approaching the 1/4 price of a new bare 340 pump.

 

[EngineerNate]

Be careful you're approaching the 1/4 price of a new bare 340 pump.

Egads! What have I done?!?

This may not end up the steal of the century, but a bird in the hand and all that. It's hard to see all these guys finding these in tip top shape for $300 but I've looked on and off in my area and it's been pretty barren. With a 7 month old I'm not doing any overnight trips for compressors in the near future, but I can spend an hour here and there tearing down one that's already in the garage.

I figure in the end if I'm under $2k or so I'm still well ahead of the curve.

 

[930dreamer]

I like it, make sure the tank is drained of water.

 

[EngineerNate]

I like it, make sure the tank is drained of water.

I don't think the bottom plug even has a valve hooked up right now.

 

[EngineerNate]

You made me go look. The snapped the drain pipe off when they unloaded it at the guy's house. I remember finding it on the ground next to the unit but had a moment of worry thinking, "What if they damaged the bung and I missed it?"

Looks okay.

 

[930dreamer]

Run a coat hanger up there too make sure it's not blocked up.

 

[EngineerNate]

Good call. I did a radiator flush a while back and when I took the block drain plug out I had to put a pick up in there before any water came out. Got a face full after that.

 

[yatg]

Might as well just take off the elbow and ******. Replace with a street ell.

 

[EngineerNate]

Might as well just take off the elbow and ******. Replace with a street ell.

I'm not leaving any of the original plumbing. I'll look up street ell, thanks!

 

[oilslick]

Love them 325 and 340’s. Local closed body shop has one for sale that age(325) but it’s a 3 phase too. I’m guessing they will sell it for 400 ? Not sure if it’s worth it. I don’t need another one lol!

 

[MKSJ]

I replaced the lower elbow with an extension with ones made of bronze, as well as all the other iron fittings to the tank. It was a relatively new compressor and when I moved they must of hit the bottom elbow, when I went to drain the tank it fell off. I figure if there is any stress cracks the water seeps in and rusts the fitting. Also had an issue with the tank inlet valve not sealing and it had iron filings in it.

Nice score on the motor, you could do w/o the AC Reactor with a DC choke, in either case should work nicely.

 

[EngineerNate]

Yeah they're cheap insurance to keep the neighbors and power company happy though so what the heck.

What do you all think about shutoff switches and fuses? The manual said for UL applications it needs a 100A type J fuse on each input lead. It does not list a breaker size in that table. In the EU table, it lists a 50A MCCB if I have a DC reactor installed and 100A without. The UL table recommends 6AWG wire.

 

[MKSJ]

If you have it on a dedicated breaker, then you would not need fusing. Technically NEC specifies that the breaker wiring minimum is 125% of the input current of the VFD, as I mentioned I have not seen anything to how this applies to a 3 phase input VFD being run on single phase. Per Fuji the fusing size is the same for single phase in a derated mode. Since you have ramped acceleration you do not have the high inrush current of a motor. The wire size would be dictated by the breaker size, and also the distance. A 60A breaker specifies between 4-6 AWG, If you wiring it in the wall I would go with #4 if for some reason you need a to go up to the next size breaker you have a bit more wiggle room. I put in a 50A circuit for my compressor and ended up using #6 to from my panel to the socket and hooking the mag starter/motor to a 50A welding cable that is 8AWG wire. May also depend on local code, my understanding is NEC applies up to the socket.

 

[Iron Beaver]

Nameplate:


Tank:

Nice find!

But the unloader system is completely disconnected. You will definitely want to hook that back up.

 

[EngineerNate]

Nice find!

But the unloader system is completely disconnected. You will definitely want to hook that back up.

Yes. I plan to do a full rebuild. As mentioned some ding dong cut *all* of the copper lines out.

I'd suspect it was stolen because of that but the guy gave me a bundle of copper lines to "fix" it with. I won't be using them but if he were trying to scrap copper he wouldn't be giving it away.

On that note, does anyone know the right tubing here and what type of flare I need?

I'm thinking order of operations should be:

1. Pull head (whole) and inspect bores.

2. Pull cylinders, figure out what's clunking.

3. Make sure crank main bearings and oil pump are good. I could use help here. Is there a way to spin this fast enough to generate oil pressure with things pulled apart without breaking things?

4. Hone cylinders, polish crank as necessary.

5. Reinstall cylinders with new rings and wrist pins/bushings.

6. Move on to head.

Somewhere in there I'll clean and hydro the tank. I've ordered some leak proof zerks from McMaster and will rig something up with flexible pipe running up my driveway so I can fill and pressurize it from a safe distance. I may need to play around with putting stuff under the skid it's on so that it sits perfectly level to avoid trapping air in one of the ends of the tank.

Cheers,
Nathan

 

[Iron Beaver]

The access plate on the side should be big enough to remove or replace rod bearings. You can also get in through the intake valve holes with a bore scope.

 

[pcmeiners]

Ebay sells rebuild kits, price not too bad if new valves are not needed. If you are going to check the main bearing might as well replace both, but they are common bearing no need for Quincy branded bearings. Critical; you check the top side valves, clean them up with a wire wheel/wet&dri if possible. There are plenty of Utub videos on Quincy rebuilds. MacMcMacmac is a Quincy guru around here, take his advice.


"2. Setup table next to pump for rebuild. I'm not about to haul this motor up the stairs into my basement."
Why not, hauled one up to my kitchen to work on it, sink counter top was just the right height. ( i am single)

I would start by pulling the head and cleaning up the valves, then you would know if you need a simple rebuild kit or one with new valves. It would be more costly if you find you need valves later on.Also if you do the cylinders first, you may contaminate the bores with **** from the valve cleaning or rebuilding

As to a non professional hydro, if the tank has a tiny bit of air in it there is no danger, the most you need are protective eye wear.

No you can not spin the pulley fast enough to check the oil pump unless you have super powers, unlikely to be broken anyway.

Just remember the old saying at the Quincy plant " If you change a diaper, you can rebuild a Quincy"

 

[EngineerNate]

Okay I'll start with the heads then.

Is there a simple way to determine if the clunk I'm hearing in the bottom end is a rod bearing or a wristpin issue?

 

[pcmeiners]

There is a fairly large removable side plate which will let you view the crank shaft, and connecting rod, if you turn the pulley it will bring the pistons down so you should be able to see the wrist pin, maybe you need a mirror.

 

[EngineerNate]

There is a fairly large removable side plate which will let you view the crank shaft, and connecting rod, if you turn the pulley it will bring the pistons down so you should be able to see the wrist pin, maybe you need a mirror.

Yeah I took off the side with the dipstick in it when I purchased it in to make sure one of the pistons wasn't lying in pieces in the bottom of the case. I guess I'd be able to see better with both sides off.

 

[pcmeiners]

Actually I would just disassemble the entire compressor at one time. Leaving the removed head assembled until I was ready to clean up the valves Marking the connecting rods as to the direction they are assembled, same as to any other part which might be reused such as the lower rod bearing, wrist pins etc. as they need to be reassembled in the exact same position if re-used, which you likely already know. I would not worry about re-assembly, plenty of diagrams with a Google search. Just remember the old factory saying.

 

[seber]

I've made reed valves using electro-etch to cut the parts without burrs. Would disc valve be more difficult? I've never taken one apart.

 

[EngineerNate]

Disk valves aren't a thin sheet like reed valves, they'd have to be machined if you wanted to make replacements yourself.

No real need for that though, Quincy still has replacement parts for the valves back to very early models.

From what I've read about the only thing that can be hard to get parts for is if the oil pump has a major problem.

 

[pcmeiners]

"No real need for that though, Quincy still has replacement parts for the valves back to very early models."

But the valves are not cheap . As to the oil pump parts, I rarely see parts for them come up on Ebay, likely they are basically indestructible.

 

[EngineerNate]

"No real need for that though, Quincy still has replacement parts for the valves back to very early models."

But the valves are not cheap . As to the oil pump parts, I rarely see parts for them come up on Ebay, likely they are basically indestructible.

Cheap relative to buying a 340 new.

 

[bsaint]

So not sure on the 340, but the 210 on some years there's a different style oil pump thats driven off a wheel that will only rotate one way (If I remember correctly) so if you rotate it back and forth it will clunk when it reengages.

 

[EngineerNate]

Well despite UPS and the seller's best attempts, I believe the motor got to me unscathed. There's styrofoam all up in it's works though so I'll have to figure out how to open it up to clean it. Bearings feel okay and the shaft doesn't seem bent.










The box was more of a bag by the time it made it to me.

 

[B_Bimmer]

I've bought brand new baldor motors and they look about the same when they arrive. There's just only so much you can do with something that dense.

 

[EngineerNate]

I've bought brand new baldor motors and they look about the same when they arrive. There's just only so much you can do with something that dense.

Seems to me that a small pallet is the right choice!

 

[Stillgottimefor1]

Compressed air will blow that out in a jiffy…oops-doh!

 

[EngineerNate]

Compressed air will blow that out in a jiffy…oops-doh!

The same thought crossed my mind.

 

[pcmeiners]

"Well despite UPS and the seller's best attempts, I believe the motor got to me unscathed."

As to the Styrofoam in the motor, I guess a plastic bag over the motor to keep the foam out was too expensive.

They probably tried with their best effort, I guess it was just too heavy to pickup and throw. Nice motor, energy efficient model

 

[EngineerNate]

Ain't no kill like overkill. Square D H363RB cutout. $50 on FB Marketplace.

At least it'll be obvious.