Quincy/Baldor help

[andrewk]

Looking for some help identifying the problem. I just changed the oil in my Quincy QT 54 air compressor and when I turned it back on to run it the Baldor 5hp motor started smoking. The motor starts fine, even my tank fills up, but the motor is smoking and smells like burnt electrical or plastic. Motor is pretty hot, but the thermal overload doesn’t kick off. Everything worked as normal prior to changing the oil, all I did was drain oil, put new oil in and changed the air filter. Never had this issue before. Any ideas?

Oil is same stuff I normally use:


Video of smoking motor

 

[PoorUB]

I suspect it is one of those weird occurrences where something fails right after you wok on it. The motor has failed, start shopping for a new one!

I did HVAC service for years. I can not tell you the number of times I was working on a piece of equipment and something else failed.

 

[Imatk]

Damn man sorry to see that. How many hours were on the motor? Looks pretty new.

 

[andrewk]

My guess is 150hrs? Based on what you see in the video you think it’s done for?

 

[PoorUB]

My guess is 150hrs? Based on what you see in the video you think it’s done for?

Once you let the magic smoke out it is pretty much over. It might run a while longer, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[andrewk]

Thanks for for the input, I’ll start looking for a new motor. Little gun shy on another baldor, I’m sure they are good motors, but given my situation I can’t justify paying a premium. Fool me once…

 

[Jswain]

That's pretty thick oil are you in a very hot climate? Do you always run that specific oil or is this the first time you've changed it?

I would run it without the belts on to see what the motor does. If you have an amp clamp check what the motor is drawing without a load then go from there. Maybe it's working too hard because the oil is too thick, or maybe a capacitor went bad and is causing it to draw too many amps and you can just change the 20$ capacitor

 

[andrewk]

That's pretty thick oil are you in a very hot climate?

No, I’m in the Seattle area. I bought a box of it when I first bought the compressor and have only used this oil and have not had problems before. Should I be using something a little thinner?

 

[Jswain]

No, I’m in the Seattle area. I bought a box of it when I first bought the compressor and have only used this oil and have not had problems before. Should I be using something a little thinner?

I tried looking for a spec for your pump but it just listed 4 different weights but typically you would run thicker stuff in very hot climates and thinner in the cold. All depends on the pump tho I was just wondering if maybe it was your first oil change and you've never used that before.

 

[Jswain]

Regardless an amp clamp might save you a very expensive motor, whatever ya do don't be running it with it smoking besides troubleshooting. See what it's drawing for FLA with belts on vs off narrows it down. Still drawing high with belts off check capacitors & also check all your wiring connections/plugs make sure nothing came loose

 

[andrewk]

I tried looking for a spec for your pump but it just listed 4 different weights but typically you would run thicker stuff in very hot climates and thinner in the cold. All depends on the pump tho I was just wondering if maybe it was your first oil change and you've never used that before.

Yeah, after the break in oil I changed it with this stuff. I misspoke before, after talking to my wife we are probably closer to 250 hrs, still doesn’t seem like much for a motor like this to go out, but I don’t know that much about it.

 

[andrewk]

Regardless an amp clamp might save you a very expensive motor, whatever ya do don't be running it with it smoking besides troubleshooting. See what it's drawing for FLA with belts on vs off narrows it down. Still drawing high with belts off check capacitors & also check all your wiring connections/plugs make sure nothing came loose

Will do, thanks for the help!

 

[andrewk]

Will do, thanks for the help!

I will note that the motor sounds a lot high pitch than normal when this started happening. Not sure is that means anything.

 

[Jswain]

Will do, thanks for the help!

No problem hopefully it's a cheap fix vs expensive motor. One of my capacitors went bad in my compressor last year and I think it was $40 to change. Was drawing too many amps at full load and kicking out the magnetic starter. Motor was scorching hot. Now it's warm but never too hot

Once you get the belts off you can spin the motor by hand to see if the bearings are shot. See if it spins freely or the pulley will move in or out indicating they are bad.

 

[nadogail]

Could you have possibly spilled just a little oil on the motor?

 

[andrewk]

Could you have possibly spilled just a little oil on the motor?

Yeah I thought about that too, but I wasn’t near the motor when I was changing the oil. I’m not super familiar with the smell of burning oil, but this one smells more electrical/plastic like. I ran it 3 times (probably shouldn’t have) thinking if it was oil it would burn off. But all three times the motor runs without smoking for about 30-45 seconds then it starts smoking so I shut it off and it continues to smoke after the motor is off. I let the motor cool completely between the times I ran it. I guess I was wishfully thinking it was oil that would burn off, but I don’t think that is the case. Thanks for your input, I appreciate the questions.

 

[andrewk]

No problem hopefully it's a cheap fix vs expensive motor. One of my capacitors went bad in my compressor last year and I think it was $40 to change. Was drawing too many amps at full load and kicking out the magnetic starter. Motor was scorching hot. Now it's warm but never too hot

Once you get the belts off you can spin the motor by hand to see if the bearings are shot. See if it spins freely or the pulley will move in or out indicating they are bad.

I’ll check it out, I thought if it was a bearing that it would probably have seized and wouldn’t even turn the belt, but I’ll check it out when I have the chance to pull it apart. From the spec sheet it uses sealed bearings. I’ll check out the capacitor too. Thanks again for the help.

 

[71goldss]

Here’s a couple of pages from the manuals that came with my QT-54. The extended warranty kit that I purchased at time of compressor purchase came with SAE 30 oil.

Page from QT-54 manual:


Page from QT Series manual:

 

[Jswain]

Yeah so unless your ambient temp right now is higher then 104 the oil is maybe too thick, or not ideal anyways.

30w is a good all around even better would be changing to 20w in the winter but nobody does that. Certain compressors are pickier then others & won't start up or start up hard in the winter with certain oils. Most synthetics are ok

 

[My Old Tools]

Blow it out good with an air hose or better yet, open it up. Could be bearings, could be something else got in there. The sound definitely isn't normal. That motor has a fan. Could it be clogged causing the overheating?

 

[pancho400cid]

Is the motor single phase? The centrifugal switch that switches from "start" to "run" circuit could be stuck / welded closed.

....

 

[andrewk]

Thanks for all the input, I really appreciate it! I’m still working on it and am about to pull the motor off and open it up. I did notice these string like things look pretty well melted, not sure what that means if anything. The fan at the rear near the shaft just inside the housing does appear to be working.

 

[andrewk]

Is the motor single phase? The centrifugal switch that switches from "start" to "run" circuit could be stuck / welded closed.

....

Single phase, I’ll do some research to see where the centrifugal switch is and what condition it’s in.

 

[andrewk]

Blow it out good with an air hose or better yet, open it up. Could be bearings, could be something else got in there. The sound definitely isn't normal. That motor has a fan. Could it be clogged causing the overheating?

Thanks for the input, I did blow it out as best I could, but I’ll do it again after I open it up to see if there is more to be cleared out.

 

[PoorUB]

Those windings have been hot, hot enough to melt the insulation. Even if you find some other problem that caused it, that motor is shot. I wouldn't even bother opening it up. Toss it and buy a new motor.
It is possible the start switch stuck closed and cooked the start windings, but again, it is dead, or soon will be.

 

[walta]

To my eye the winding in the motor look cooked and the motor is likely damaged beyond repair.

In the video the motor does not appear to be turning is that correct?

Does the pump spin easily? Excessive load from the pump could kill the motor.

It is possible that the centrifugal switch contacts in the motor could be stuck closed and killed the motor but generally the start capacitor would over heat and vent with a loud bang and a huge cloud of smoke before the winding burn.

For future reference when a motor trips its overload like this one is always allow the motor to cool off for at least 45 minutes before restarting.



Walta

 

[andrewk]

To my eye the winding in the motor look cooked and the motor is likely damaged beyond repair.

In the video the motor does not appear to be turning is that correct?

Does the pump spin easily? Excessive load from the pump could kill the motor.

It is possible that the centrifugal switch contacts in the motor could be stuck closed and killed the motor but generally the start capacitor would over heat and vent with a loud bang and a huge cloud of smoke before the winding burn.

For future reference when a motor trips its overload like this one is always allow the motor to cool off for at least 45 minutes before restarting.



Walta

Thanks for your input, the motor and pump both turn, the tank fills with air, it’ll run for about 1 minute before the smoke starts. It hasn’t tripped the breaker yet, I usually turn it off because of the smoke.

 

[walta]

Have you found it necessary to press the red reset button on the motor?

Walta

 

[andrewk]

Have you found it necessary to press the red reset button on the motor?

Walta

It hasn’t shut off/reset. I assume it resets if it gets too hot, but it hasn’t tripped the reset yet.

 

[walta]

To my way of thinking the overload inside the motor should trip before the motor gets damaged and smoking.

Note the circuit breaker in the panel is not intended to protect the motor its only job is to prevent the wires in the walls from overheating and being damaged.

Some of the overloads automatically reset after they cool off others are manual reset and you must push the button. Generally, if you can see a red button, it is a manual reset. I see what looks like a red button in the video and You say you have not been pressing the red button so I would have to assume the overload in the motor is defective or was bypassed.

Walta

 

[redmondjp]

I live in the Seattle area as well and 40W oil is too thick! Heck, my old box store compressor struggled to start with 30W (non-detergent, non-synthetic) compressor oil in it at a 40 degree F ambient - I let some smoke out of my motor under similar circumstances. This is a case where synthetic compressor oil really shines - it makes for much easier starts at low ambient temperatures.

 

[Imatk]

I'm going to go check my oil. I have the same compressor and it's fairly new. I'm in Texas so maybe different as far as needing thicker oil. But I do remember that the only way to extend the warranty on the compressor was to buy the "kit" with the oil.

 

[andrewk]

Thanks for all the input, I’ve been a. It busy at work and haven’t had a ton of time to figure out the problem. I need to order a new motor, does anyone have a recommendation as to where to buy one? I can of course just do a quick google search, but would rather use a recommended place if given a choice. Thanks for all the help!

 

[andrewk]

I live in the Seattle area as well and 40W oil is too thick! Heck, my old box store compressor struggled to start with 30W (non-detergent, non-synthetic) compressor oil in it at a 40 degree F ambient - I let some smoke out of my motor under similar circumstances. This is a case where synthetic compressor oil really shines - it makes for much easier starts at low ambient temperatures.

I’ll put some thinner oil in it. I’ve been running the 40w stuff for the last 6 years without issue, I can turn my pump shaft wheel with one finger, so it seems more like the motor is about to cross over to the afterlife.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Thanks for all the input, I’ve been a. It busy at work and haven’t had a ton of time to figure out the problem. I need to order a new motor, does anyone have a recommendation as to where to buy one? I can of course just do a quick google search, but would rather use a recommended place if given a choice. Thanks for all the help!

Andrew, You won't find a better deal out there...I looked. This is a Baldor L1430T motor. I had a 10% off HD coupon and bought two that were just delivered today via fedex...oh, and free shipping!
Only shows 'ONE AVALIABLE' so you best hurry!

5 RHP 4-Pole Baldor Electric Air Compressor Motor 160-0291 - The Home Depot

The Motor 5-1/5 RHP 4-Pole Baldor L1430T comes with rigid base for long lasting usage. This rotates counter clockwise direction by facing the motor shaft. It features open drip proof housing with start

www.homedepot.com

 

[andrewk]

Andrew, You won't find a better deal out there...I looked. This is a Baldor L1430T motor. I had a 10% off HD coupon and bought two that were just delivered today via fedex...oh, and free shipping!
Only shows 'ONE AVALIABLE' so you best hurry!

5 RHP 4-Pole Baldor Electric Air Compressor Motor 160-0291 - The Home Depot

The Motor 5-1/5 RHP 4-Pole Baldor L1430T comes with rigid base for long lasting usage. This rotates counter clockwise direction by facing the motor shaft. It features open drip proof housing with start

www.homedepot.com

Thanks for the help, I’ve thought about getting the same motor, but am a little gun shy given my experience, this one failed after not that many hours. Fool me once…There are a couple other off brands out there that have pretty good reviews and are half the price, wondering if it’s worth it to get one. I don’t know.

 

[Jswain]

I’ll put some thinner oil in it. I’ve been running the 40w stuff for the last 6 years without issue, I can turn my pump shaft wheel with one finger, so it seems more like the motor is about to cross over to the afterlife.

Maybe the issue is the additional drag it created cooked your motor in 6 years? I'd still do all the checks with a clamp meter because you would feel pretty bad if you did the same thing to a new, expensive motor...

 

[marinusdees]

I’ll put some thinner oil in it. I’ve been running the 40w stuff for the last 6 years without issue, I can turn my pump shaft wheel with one finger, so it seems more like the motor is about to cross over to the afterlife.

I'd take the motor off and take it to a motor shop (I can suggest someone if you tell me where in the Seattle area) and see if in fact it is burned up. If it runs correctly when off the compressor, it may be possible to dip it in varnish and bake it in their oven to "heal" the wounds. This is less expensive than rewinding or a new motor. A fairly good way to diagnose motor problems is smell it. Burned varnish has a strong smell. Chinese varnish smells different than American varnish. I am not a motor shop. I have no axe to grind.
And if were me, I'd then change to 20 weight non-detergent oil. I've never used synthetic in a compressor. Doesn't mean I wouldn't.
If you need a further explanation of why, how, etc. etc. PM me. And, ask the questions you want (my) answers to.

 

[andrewk]

I'd take the motor off and take it to a motor shop (I can suggest someone if you tell me where in the Seattle area) and see if in fact it is burned up. If it runs correctly when off the compressor, it may be possible to dip it in varnish and bake it in their oven to "heal" the wounds. This is less expensive than rewinding or a new motor. A fairly good way to diagnose motor problems is smell it. Burned varnish has a strong smell. Chinese varnish smells different than American varnish. I am not a motor shop. I have no axe to grind.
And if were me, I'd then change to 20 weight non-detergent oil. I've never used synthetic in a compressor. Doesn't mean I wouldn't.
If you need a further explanation of why, how, etc. etc. PM me. And, ask the questions you want (my) answers to.

I am near Bothell, about 30min north of Seattle. If you have a spot to recommend that would be great. I’m not sure what burning varnish smells like, but the smell coming from the motor isn’t something I’ve smelled. So maybe that is what it is.

 

[marinusdees]

I am near Bothell, about 30min north of Seattle. If you have a spot to recommend that would be great. I’m not sure what burning varnish smells like, but the smell coming from the motor isn’t something I’ve smelled. So maybe that is what it is.

I nave a buddy who owns All-Elecric Motor Service in North Puyallup. I'll call him and ask him. It's a pretty small fraternity. He's presently working alone, his one man is in Costa Rica this week. He'll answer his phone if he's not busy. I know United Electric in Ballard, dunno Mike's opinion. He worked there in another life. When I get an answer, I'll forward it.
Mike just called me back. He said Cascade Electric, but he no longer knows any one there, they were bought out. Maybe United Electric in Ballard, but he thinks they only do sales. He thinks he is the closest one. His name is Mike Thayer. His address is 5507 Milwaukee Ave E
Puyallup. His (cel) is 253 307 3487. He's really busy, but if you treat him civilly, he'll do the same for you. If you call him, you may be able to walk in and he'll look at it. Good luck!

I am near Bothell, about 30min north of Seattle. If you have a spot to recommend that would be great. I’m not sure what burning varnish smells like, but the smell coming from the motor isn’t something I’ve smelled. So maybe that is what it is.