rattle_snake's random shop projects v0.1

[rattle_snake]

Yes that is a potential solution as well. Wherever it goes I need to fab some type of box to mount/secure it. The isolation relay is potted so it could go under there too.

Thinking of designing battery box in 360 and cut with plasma, rubber strap to hold battery like a motorcycle.

 

[ntsqd]

I added a similar tickle charger connection to our CTD, but it is a proprietary connector. I really should change it to the SAE connector and add one to a couple other vehicles. Ironically the solar on the CTD's pop-top camper will top off the camper batteries and then close the ACR to charge the starting batteries so I rarely feel like I need to use the trickle charger on it.

You're using the small Blue Sea Systems ACR as I recall? Not that it matters, but is it a dual-acting version? Have you considered adding a small PV panel to the roof of the shell? The panel on the roof of our camper is not small (160W), but it has no problem staying ahead of the compressor fridge in the camper even in our more frequently foggy/overcast coastal climate. I'd think that in your part of the world that an at or just sub 100W panel could come close to keeping up with the loads on the second battery. A surface mount panel could use the shell's aluminum skin as a heat sink and not add much weight or height. A panel this size will want a controller, but I don't think an MPPT controller is justified, and if you can overkill the panel in size a bit then a PWM controller won't be much of of a hindrance.

 

[rattle_snake]

I'm using a Eaton 1314 isolator. Single side sense. Trying to keep things on the truck simple/minimal, light weight and modular. The 30Ah battery is plenty for days of use but typically the truck is driven someplace before that so no need for solar.

My neighbor has a pretty high end solar system on his Tacoma to run an ARB fridge and so on.

 

[rattle_snake]

Working on bed platform 2.0. Removed all the mounting blocks and started with a clean design. Use the wheel well and bed side to support so there is only one 'leg' in the way. Cut the blocks with an angle and covered in carpet so it slides in without damage to paint. Added angular support to the leg with some gussets.


Fabbed some brackets to secure the platform using existing holes in the bed. Had some right sized remnants in 3/16 so used that. Need to make one more for the front right corner. Will have to drill a hole, probably use a nutsert.


Result is more room and less **** in the way. The battery is no longer part of the platform so don't have to fart with any of that to use platform. And don't need platform or camper to use battery/audio system.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Simple and elegant...

 

[rattle_snake]

Well the trans in the 72 Ford is F'd. 3200 miles

Started having issues of it not returning to 1st at a stop about 5 weeks ago (on camping trip of course). I checked everything I could including a fluid sample. Otherwise trans performed as expected. Stayed nice and cool with huge cooler.

Having been through similar issues before I figured the fluid is contaminated with particles causing the pistons in the governor to stick most of the time but not all. So I drained and pulled the pan. Not good.




I have 2 options
a) Fix the C6. Replace cooler, torque converter. Around $1400, Truck down for 4-6 weeks
b) Go to a 6R80/100. Used trans, adapters, controller, driveshaft mods, crossmember mods, replace cooler, new lines. $4.5-5k, 12+ weeks

6R has a 4.17 first and 0.69 6th yielding a 6:1 gear spread. C6 is 2.40 first and spread. So first would be geared down by 1.73 which is almost like having a doubler. It will burn the tires off like it does in 2WD low now. The relatively shallow 2:1 of the NP205 is offset with a steep 1st.
Overdrive of 0.69 puts 75 MPH cruise at 1800 RPM with help from lockup converter. 5th is 0.87 and would be 2300. I think the lockup converter will help $/mile and increase range. Thinking a used low mileage trans that has never been opened or touched anyone but Ford.

I'm afraid plan a will result in same situation like the c4 in my old bronco (3 times)

 

[bigsteve2011]

I had a 2012 F-150 5.0L with the 6R80. It was pretty good, no problems in the 10 years I had that truck.
I have heard from a couple people at Ford the warranty claims on that one are super low too, doesn't make a difference for you if used trans but should give a little peace of mind.

 

[zmotorsports]

My opinions have morphed over the past 15 or so years now Justin and I have become a huge fan of the newer transmissions having both lockup and overdrive capabilities. Not only do they increase the driveability but the heat generation is less.

I cannot remember what you are running stall wise in your C6 but I remember it being a bit on the high side so if that is the case I think you'll be right back here visiting the same scenario again if you choose Option A.

Just my opinion.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

According to my math $1400 x 3 = $4200.

It's a tough call, but you don't want to be back in the same situation again for sure. I thought the C6's were supposed to be damn near indestructible?!

If it makes you feel any better, I had to swap out the Tundra for the 'burb at lunch. Hoping this cold weather is the reason it decided to leak a little coolant when I got home, and can be cured quickly by tightening a clamp.

 

[ntsqd]

If you were only to cruise Cars & Coffee with it I'd say find 'the guy' who can build the C6 to live and move onto the next project. Since you actually go places with the truck I'm third in line, go with an OD trans. Which one is up to you, but the lock-up converter is worth it!

It's funny how differently different mfg's approach when to lock-up. Our CTD will only lock going into OD with the OD turned on, but locks in second with the OD turned off. It would be perfect if I could stop it from unlocking when in locked direct and I turn the OD on. Now it does this stupid shuffle. The E4OD in the Blanc-Oh! doesn't do that, but it's frustrating because it unlocks when it doesn't need to. If I could only take the good of both and blend them together. I'll assume that with an aftermarket trans controller that after some tuning that you can get to that point. Will such a controller support paddle shifters? I could see having a discrete dual throw momentary toggle or something to make semi-manual shifting much more fun!

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Will such a controller support paddle shifters? I could see having a discrete dual throw momentary toggle or something to make semi-manual shifting much more fun!

I think they can, my 2017 F150 had a rocker on the console shifter that would allow you to manual shift when it was in "manual" mode.

 

[rattle_snake]

I had a 2012 F-150 5.0L with the 6R80. It was pretty good, no problems in the 10 years I had that truck.
I have heard from a couple people at Ford the warranty claims on that one are super low too, doesn't make a difference for you if used trans but should give a little peace of mind.

Steve,
I am looking for piece of mind, as I have never had a 'rebuilt' trans last even a fraction of what it should.
I would like to drive to trails like Rubicon (800 miles each way) so reliability is key, as is OD for lower RPMs

My opinions have morphed over the past 15 or so years now Justin and I have become a huge fan of the newer transmissions having both lockup and overdrive capabilities. Not only do they increase the driveability but the heat generation is less.

I cannot remember what you are running stall wise in your C6 but I remember it being a bit on the high side so if that is the case I think you'll be right back here visiting the same scenario again if you choose Option A.

Just my opinion.

I'm running a 2200 converter, 2-300 rpm over stock.

According to my math $1400 x 3 = $4200.

It's a tough call, but you don't want to be back in the same situation again for sure. I thought the C6's were supposed to be damn near indestructible?!

If it makes you feel any better, I had to swap out the Tundra for the 'burb at lunch. Hoping this cold weather is the reason it decided to leak a little coolant when I got home, and can be cured quickly by tightening a clamp.

C6 can be built to hold big power for cheap. Some race vehicles don't get many miles.
Only way to root cause failure is to take it apart. Hard to say what happened.

If you were only to cruise Cars & Coffee with it I'd say find 'the guy' who can build the C6 to live and move onto the next project. Since you actually go places with the truck I'm third in line, go with an OD trans. Which one is up to you, but the lock-up converter is worth it!

It's funny how differently different mfg's approach when to lock-up. Our CTD will only lock going into OD with the OD turned on, but locks in second with the OD turned off. It would be perfect if I could stop it from unlocking when in locked direct and I turn the OD on. Now it does this stupid shuffle. The E4OD in the Blanc-Oh! doesn't do that, but it's frustrating because it unlocks when it doesn't need to. If I could only take the good of both and blend them together. I'll assume that with an aftermarket trans controller that after some tuning that you can get to that point. Will such a controller support paddle shifters? I could see having a discrete dual throw momentary toggle or something to make semi-manual shifting much more fun!

I think they can, my 2017 F150 had a rocker on the console shifter that would allow you to manual shift when it was in "manual" mode.

Yes paddles are supported. I often use manual gear lockout on my '14 F250 w/ 6R140

Quick 6 Clutch-to-Clutch Transmission Control

The Quick 6 controller allows the 6R80 Clutch-to-Clutch transmission to be implemented in a wide variety of vehicles, such as classic muscle cars, trucks, and modern sports cars. An on-board display allows adjustment of many settings without needing a PC.

www.usshift.com

 

[zmotorsports]

I'm running a 2200 converter, 2-300 rpm over stock.

OK. That's not all that high, for some reason I thought it was upwards of 3k but I must be thinking about someone else's build.

I have run many converters in that range over the years without issues so it must have been something else. Back in the day B&M made a furnace brazed converter called a Traveler that I had used in may tow rigs and motorhomes. It was available for both the GM Turbo-hydro's as well as the C6's and I used them in quite a few of each for towing applications. If memory serves they were around a 2k RPM stall converter where stock were in the 1600-1800 range.

The C6's seemed to be finicky with end clearance/thrust. As you disassemble it take a close look at the clearances and see if anything as opened up as that could explain the failure and all of the debris.

 

[rattle_snake]

I don't know auto transmissions well. Why would increased clearance make shavings? rotating parts touching case?

The builder was highly recommended and wouldn't use the existing 3 and 4 clutch drums or the ones I got with machined for additional snap ring grooves. After months of searching for parts he finally agreed to make a custom clutch and steel pack to get 5 clutches in a 4 clutch drum. The older C6s had thinner steels. Not sure if clutch clearances would cause what happened.
#9 roller thrust is a typical mod but shouldn't have been needed at my level.

 

[rattle_snake]

I hired my 16 y/o to detail my truck. Only took 9 days and a few reminders. She did a good job and it was nice to spend some time, and teach her the nuances of the job. I clay bar'd the horizontal and forward facing surfaces. The hood is the worst with heat bake from hot engine and AZ sun. My hack job at painting the chrome grill is still looking OK almost 9 years later.

 

[zmotorsports]

I don't know auto transmissions well. Why would increased clearance make shavings? rotating parts touching case?

The builder was highly recommended and wouldn't use the existing 3 and 4 clutch drums or the ones I got with machined for additional snap ring grooves. After months of searching for parts he finally agreed to make a custom clutch and steel pack to get 5 clutches in a 4 clutch drum. The older C6s had thinner steels. Not sure if clutch clearances would cause what happened.
#9 roller thrust is a typical mod but shouldn't have been needed at my level.

Excessive end play clearances can allow enough fore and aft movement that the assembly breaks through the oil film, therefore making metal to metal contact and can surely result in metal shavings and then it just degrades from there, and quickly.

As for adding clutch steels and discs, this is common practice to increase clamping force as each clutch set (disk and steel) you add multiplies the clamping forces of the hydraulic assembly. As for excessive clutch clearances, as long as the piston doesn't move far enough to cover, or in some cases to expose) oil ports in the basket the only real side effects of excessive clutch clearances are either increased delay in clutch application times or in extreme cases a bit of a harsh engagement.

 

[rattle_snake]

Decided to finish out the sleeping platform and remove it and camper shell before moving on to transmission project. That way I can store all the parts in the bed easier. Fab'd the last mount bracket to hold platform securely in place. Given I filled so many holes in the bed I don't feel bad drilling one. Put in nutserts to make it clean and easy. Lastly broke down the setup for storage.


Don't really have a good place to store the camper shell. Was pondering some type of structure on wheels, on the cheap. The realized already had a decent solution just needed some modifications....

 

[rattle_snake]

Verified that the trans filter was clogged with shavings and put the pan back on. Just this one time I was smart enough to pressure wash the underside BEFORE working on it. Then I racked, drained and disposed of $200 worth of fluids that didn't need to be changed instead of spilling them all over during disassembly. Slow learner but getting there.
All was well until last block drain plug. Was draining really slow, clogged? So I poked a screwdriver in it. Then it flowed very well, but bucket wouldn't fit so got a antifreeze shower. Outdoor sink makes a good eye wash station. Wear your PPE.

Started disassembly even though I don't have parts on order. Pulled items underneath accessible on lift. Right away I knew I was in trouble, as I found many potential areas of improvement as I evaluated the quality and functionality of my previous work. Everything is covered in a film of oil, so cleaning as I go. Oh the back side of this that one can see should be painted. Well should sand and prep first. Why didn't I use a captive nut here?

 

[rattle_snake]

Got the transfer case off the truck last night. NP205 is 140 lbs. so too heavy to manhandle myself. So I built a temporary steel contraption that has a flat bottom to ease the process. Lowered truck onto tool cart and attempted to slide it back off the trans. Case was hitting cab floor, so had to removed some shims on trans mount to get assembly lower and case out. Need to redo the clearancing on the cab floor.


Plan to pull motor and trans out together after front clip is off, which has it's own set of issues and modifications needed.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

140lbs over your head and finesse type movements really don't got hand in hand.

I like your solution!

 

[zmotorsports]

I must have missed what's going on with the engine Justin. Why are you pulling it?

 

[rattle_snake]

I called Advance Adapters and they said the 6R80 to atlas version will allow a 205 to bolt up with only clearance for shift rails. They had one in stock so I bought it, $500 delivered. Hope I can clock 205 up a bit.

So I'm committed to the 6R swap. I want to also be able to use a 6r100 (in 2017-up F250/350 w/ 6.2 gas) so modular bell adapter it is, so I ordered the Speed Gems FO2501 with a quick shift 6. $3150 delivered. Adapter thickness is 2", should put entire assembly at 29.375". C6 + tail adapter is 29" so should be able to use both driveshafts as is and existing cross member.

Lots of items to work though, cooler lines, shift mechanism (hope to use OG column shifter), trans mount and so on.

 

[rattle_snake]

I must have missed what's going on with the engine Justin. Why are you pulling it?

There is a significant engine oil leak coming out of bell housing. The mess it has made on the underside of the truck is frustrating. Might be oil galley plug, crank bolts or the rear main seal.

Reason #2 is to be able to mock up the entire assembly out of the truck, and see if engine/trans will even go back in, and what modifications are needed. May need engine/trans in and out a few times to address all the items. Don't want to try and see if things fit from below.

 

[zmotorsports]

There is a significant engine oil leak coming out of bell housing. The mess it has made on the underside of the truck is frustrating. Might be oil galley plug, crank bolts or the rear main seal.

Reason #2 is to be able to mock up the entire assembly out of the truck, and see if engine/trans will even go back in, and what modifications are needed. May need engine/trans in and out a few times to address all the items. Don't want to try and see if things fit from below.

Gotcha. Thanks. I figured it had to be something more than just a transmission replacement.

 

[ntsqd]

Those that I've seen were made for my C10, but I've come across some kits that clamp to the bottom of the steering column and replace the OE shifter linkage with a Morse type cable. That might aid in your desire to use the stock column shifter. Maybe there's an existing kit, or maybe you get to put that plasma table to work.

 

[rattle_snake]

Gotcha. Thanks. I figured it had to be something more than just a transmission replacement.

I would bet a similar leak on one of your vehicles would drive you complete nuts and you would have already pulled engine to fix long ago.
I figured something else would drive need to pull motor or trans soon enough. And it did, unfortunately.

Those that I've seen were made for my C10, but I've come across some kits that clamp to the bottom of the steering column and replace the OE shifter linkage with a Morse type cable. That might aid in your desire to use the stock column shifter. Maybe there's an existing kit, or maybe you get to put that plasma table to work.

Thanks for sharing. It seems you have already solved many of the things I get myself into.
The other issue is the 3 spd has only PRND21 and 6 spd I think is PRNDM21 so need an additional position and detent in column. Probably have to alter the movement ratio between column and trans lever, as I did with the existing bell crank. Maybe re-reverse the order too.

 

[stockerwithalocker]

Taking the easy way out, since there is a manual option, could you live with PRNDM2 and no first option? If you wanted first put it in manual and select first?

Btw i applaud your attention to detail and coming up with clean solutions for things.

 

[ntsqd]

........
Thanks for sharing. It seems you have already solved many of the things I get myself into.
The other issue is the 3 spd has only PRND21 and 6 spd I think is PRNDM21 so need an additional position and detent in column. Probably have to alter the movement ratio between column and trans lever, as I did with the existing bell crank. Maybe re-reverse the order too.

Blessed (???) with a memory for what we did 30 years ago or last week, and how it worked out. Used to be 99% accurate. Now it's more like ~80%..... so my ideas are worth what you paid me for them.

I'll suggest that you dig into the trans programing a bit. You may not need any more than the detents that you have, although they may be different gears than usual. The AOD that I had in my '67 Ranchero only had 6 detent points (PRNO/DD1). If you pulled it all of the way down it stayed in first gear. To get second and hold it there you had to upshift it into 'D', and then when the trans shifted to second you could pull the shifter back down to '1' and it would hold in second until you were going slow enough for it to down-shift back into first. And with a Transgo "Taxi" kit in it that 2-1 down-shift was a real kiss the windshield dozy! Getting the TV lever to play nice with the old C4's kick-down lever took some doing. At least I think that's how it worked. I recall laying under a 5.0 Mustang in the local dealer's lobby and when the salesman asked if he could help me I put him to work flooring the throttle pedal while I measured how much the TV lever moved. Did that conversion in something like '90 or '91 and I haven't owned the car since '99.

To get more detent locations you're likely looking at having to make a new shifter gate that has more positions and allows more rotation. I'd doubt that you can just make each position on the gate narrower, but that might work. I'd be careful if making each position narrower is the path chosen. Seems like a good way to make the whole thing less robust, but maybe Ford left enough on the plate for it to work. You'll be juggling rotational range (linear distance) of the shifter, total motion available in the cable, and rotational/linear motion at the trans. Might get to do some Trig, but these days I just make a sketch in CAD to make it solve that for me.

 

[Bob Heine]

Maybe a Lokar adjustable belcrank and linkage would solve the detent problem (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-aca-1801?rrec=true).

 

[rattle_snake]

Blessed (???) with a memory for what we did 30 years ago or last week, and how it worked out. Used to be 99% accurate. Now it's more like ~80%..... so my ideas are worth what you paid me for them.
....
To get more detent locations you're likely looking at having to make a new shifter gate that has more positions and allows more rotation.... You'll be juggling rotational range (linear distance) of the shifter, total motion available in the cable, and rotational/linear motion at the trans. Might get to do some Trig...

80% is decent. Hell I'd take that.
What did I come in here for?

I'll have to understand further if another position is even needed. But yes gate mod is the plan if needed.

Maybe a Lokar adjustable belcrank and linkage would solve the detent problem (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lok-aca-1801?rrec=true).

Hey Bob,
Thanks for sharing. I may steal that idea and fab my own. Might be cheaper and easier to just buy the Lokar but I have to complicate for unknown reasons.

 

[rattle_snake]

Prep for pulling drivetrain.
Bumper in the way, heavy with winch. Used fab table and jack to remove without lifting.


Rolled it over to the bed and slid it in to store for now. One man show.


Spiffed up the driveshafts. Rear wasn't repainted when first installed. It was boxed up and shipped before original paint dried, so did some prep and painted.


Hacked up the core support to allow the A/C condenser to be left attached to the rest of the system. Glad I converted to 134 but would rather not open the system. Going to make some type of removable patch/reinforcement panel. Core support didn't have much attached to it and came off easy enough.


Pulled most of the accessories off the motor in prep for removal. Wiring is all connectorized, but will make some changes to how things are secured to engine. P/S and electrical system left intact. Headers had to come off. Ready to come out.

 

[rattle_snake]

Before moving truck out of lift bay I addresses the cab/transfer case interference issue. The original cab cross member support did not allow TC to be slid back and removed.
Before:


So fix was to cut the rest of the way through and widen the notch considerably.
After:


Cut out the old and weld in the new. When overhead welding it is worth the time to REALLY CLEAN everything to minimize splatter onto one's self.


Rattle can satin black and done.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

And so begins the blowing apart process.

You're making short work of it! Nice work on the notch.

 

[rattle_snake]

Pull the motor without too much trouble. Had to find the right chain link to balance the assembly at the right angle to pull it up and out.


Built a engine stand out of some scraps to support from chassis mounts, so I can fart with transmission adapters.


Then the big question, where is that MF'n oil leak from? Rear main?
It appears to be the oil pan gasket and the right valve cover. There are a few rust spots on the rear of the crank that would suggest it was not coming from the rear main seal. The thin separator plate had the smoking gun. I had resealed the valve cover previously. So no need to do RMS job, yay for me.
But I am going to replace the oil pan and valve cover seals, among other things.

Piling all the parts into the bed to store once they are ready to be put back on. Having to clean up a lot of fasteners and such that are all oily from the various leaks some of which are already fixed. Front end is up quite a bit with weight missing.

 

[OutlawDrifter]

Now you can fit in with the flatbillers with that *** draggin' look!

How much weight difference will there be between the 6R80 and the C6?

 

[XJSuperman]

Really coming along quick it seems! Im interested in the 6r80. I haven't seen much about those swaps yet.

 

[rattle_snake]

Now you can fit in with the flatbillers with that *** draggin' look!

How much weight difference will there be between the 6R80 and the C6?

Still not sure I would fit in. haha
Not much. C6 w/ iron 4x4 adapter is 200 lbs. 6R80 is 220 w/ adapter.

Really coming along quick it seems! Im interested in the 6r80. I haven't seen much about those swaps yet.

I'm surprised it isn't more supported and documented. Had to do a lot of digging to find some basic info.

 

[rattle_snake]

Received the adapters for both ends of the 6R. 460->6R80->NP205/atlas
The engine adapter is 2" thick to solve the starter location differences, as is torque converter spacer.


The transfer case adapter is for an AA atlas, but has same bolt pattern as many other TCs including NP20x, BW, Dana and so on.
But for use on 205 there are mods needed. The gear drive 205 has shift rails close to input centerline so need to hog out that area.


Once I had basic fitment I see that the idler shaft is in the way, so poked around in the tooling and found a suitable cutter.


But then the input bearing retainer didn't clear so did some more machining of adapter to allow it to sit flush on face. Still need to go further on shift rail as the shifter itself uses a thicker collar. I think I have a boring bar that will work.

 

[Bob Heine]

Hacked up the core support to allow the A/C condenser to be left attached to the rest of the system.

Justin, I left the A/C condenser and compressor attached but my support was not as quiet as yours.

 

[rattle_snake]

Bob that guy looks familiar

Top of core on your 'Vette is lower than my engine crossmember. Interesting how short the ram is on that hoist compared to what is available today.