DocsMachine
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- Joined
- Sep 16, 2006
- Messages
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-It's almost certainly threaded in. Put two nuts on it, tighten them together, spin it out.
Doc.
Rebuilding a monarch 10ee lathe
- Thread starter Grant Gunderson
- Start date
-It's almost certainly threaded in. Put two nuts on it, tighten them together, spin it out.
Doc.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
After going back and looking at my part manual, the part I am trying to get out is the tailstock plug that goes around that stud. I've tried Kroil, heat and trying to tap it from the bottom with a long brass drift, but its firmly stuck. I can see the Kroil soak down around the stud, so I think its free from that, but its frozen between the plug's outer surface and the tail stock's casting.
I'm going to keep soaking it in Kroil for a few days before trying more heat and tapping it with the drift, unless you guys have a better idea.
I do need to get that plug at least free, if not out to clean it as is currently pushed too far in to let the quill enter the tail stock.
Being stuck on the tail stock situation, I focused on the TravelADial next. I removed the two bolts that secure the mounting bracket to the lathe. Despite how filthy it is, it still works!
I then used a tooth brush and some denatured alcohol to clean all of the old swarf off of it.
The mounting bracket is quite well engineered so that you can very precisely align it with the lathe. That middle block, is one of the most impressive dovetail mounts I've seen, and thats saying something with all of the work I've done with high-end cameras. It has 4 set screws (two on each side) to lock it in place, plus a tension adjustment screw that attached via the hinged bracket above. On the bottom, it has two mounting screws with domed washers to hold it, along with two level adjustment screws that press on the base of the mount. Back in the day before digital readouts where the standard, this little guy was the state of the art to indicate your travel and thats shown in its build quality. Luckily there is still the factory manuals online for recalibrating it to the lathe once I get to that stage. I am also going to outfit the late with a modern DRO, but still plan on reinstalling this as its really cool.
At some point I’ll take it apart, clean the internals and paint the case, but for now I’ll put it aside so I can continue working on stripping the lathe down.
I'm going to keep soaking it in Kroil for a few days before trying more heat and tapping it with the drift, unless you guys have a better idea.
I do need to get that plug at least free, if not out to clean it as is currently pushed too far in to let the quill enter the tail stock.
Being stuck on the tail stock situation, I focused on the TravelADial next. I removed the two bolts that secure the mounting bracket to the lathe. Despite how filthy it is, it still works!
I then used a tooth brush and some denatured alcohol to clean all of the old swarf off of it.
The mounting bracket is quite well engineered so that you can very precisely align it with the lathe. That middle block, is one of the most impressive dovetail mounts I've seen, and thats saying something with all of the work I've done with high-end cameras. It has 4 set screws (two on each side) to lock it in place, plus a tension adjustment screw that attached via the hinged bracket above. On the bottom, it has two mounting screws with domed washers to hold it, along with two level adjustment screws that press on the base of the mount. Back in the day before digital readouts where the standard, this little guy was the state of the art to indicate your travel and thats shown in its build quality. Luckily there is still the factory manuals online for recalibrating it to the lathe once I get to that stage. I am also going to outfit the late with a modern DRO, but still plan on reinstalling this as its really cool.
At some point I’ll take it apart, clean the internals and paint the case, but for now I’ll put it aside so I can continue working on stripping the lathe down.
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Steve from Socal
Well-known member
Grant,
Regarding that stud, do you have a slide hammer? Two things you could do, first heat the body of the tailstock too warm to touch 250~275, either a slide hammer or use a nut and spacers to pull the stud loose.
Steve
Regarding that stud, do you have a slide hammer? Two things you could do, first heat the body of the tailstock too warm to touch 250~275, either a slide hammer or use a nut and spacers to pull the stud loose.
Steve
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
I finally got somewhat caught up with work, and got to spend some time working on the lathe again. Speaking of work, I found out today, that I scored the cover of a National Geographic book. So pretty excited about that.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. After several days, of soaking the tail stock plug in a combination of Kroil and PB Blaster, I started to see some progress as a lot of the gunk around it's edges started to free up a bit, but it was still firmly stuck. So time to resort to heat. Truth be told, I would have done that sooner, but my last torch broke, when it rolled off of the work bench. I had such good luck with the Master Appliance heat gun I ordered, I decided to try one of their blow torches. $50 and a few days latter, this arrived:
It seems to be built quite a bit heftier than the benzomatic one I had before, and it also seems to get quite a bit hotter, even running just propane ( all of the local hardware stores are sold out of MAP gas). With the tail stock sitting upside down in my vice, I heated the casting and the stud for 5 minutes or so, then gave the plug a tap with a brass drift and it fell right out!
The bore hole, for the stud, is packed full of 80 years worth of grime, so I am confident, once its all cleaned up, lubed and reassembled, it will work great.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand. After several days, of soaking the tail stock plug in a combination of Kroil and PB Blaster, I started to see some progress as a lot of the gunk around it's edges started to free up a bit, but it was still firmly stuck. So time to resort to heat. Truth be told, I would have done that sooner, but my last torch broke, when it rolled off of the work bench. I had such good luck with the Master Appliance heat gun I ordered, I decided to try one of their blow torches. $50 and a few days latter, this arrived:
It seems to be built quite a bit heftier than the benzomatic one I had before, and it also seems to get quite a bit hotter, even running just propane ( all of the local hardware stores are sold out of MAP gas). With the tail stock sitting upside down in my vice, I heated the casting and the stud for 5 minutes or so, then gave the plug a tap with a brass drift and it fell right out!
The bore hole, for the stud, is packed full of 80 years worth of grime, so I am confident, once its all cleaned up, lubed and reassembled, it will work great.
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Yea, and if it's not big enough to turn a propeller shaft for an aircraft carrier to a ten thousandth of an inch, they will sneer at you , and call it a toy and a piece of junk.
merkyworks
Well-known member
Congratulations on the book cover!
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Next on the to do list, is get the rest of the lathe torn down, so I can start to prep the main casting for paint. That requires me to remove the head stock which requires removal of the gear box first, and the feed rod and lead screw. The feed rod, is easy, as it just uses a small set screw that holds the shaft into the collar on the gear box. The lead screw is more challenging as it utilizes a tapper pin that needs to get punched out.
Now, is a good time to recognize the difference in the types of drifts / punches and their uses. A good brass drift set and get you by for a lot of projects, but having the correct tool makes it quite bit easier.
For the tapper pin, I would normally prefer to press it out. But I cant use my arbor press in this case and the portable press I made for the other pins on the lathe, won't fit between the shaft and the casting. So the only option is to punch it out. For this case, a good taper punch is the best tool to use to get the pin moving, as tapper punches have the tips ground with a concave profile to keep the punch from moving and missing your target.
I really like my Starrett set for these.
The trick with the taper pins, is that can be tough to tell what end is the small end to tap, especially when they have been covered in years of grime. So you have a 50/50 chance of moving it the correct direction on the first try.
After trying to tap it a few times from either side and letting it soak in Kroil and PB Blaster, it was clear it wasn't going to move without some extra help. So out comes the torch, and I heated it on both ends for 5 minutes or so.
A few light raps with the tapered punch, and the pin moved quite a bit. I then finished tapping it through using a steel pin punch. Next, I removed the setscrew in the collar that held the feed rod in. To get the shafts out, I then engaged the half nuts on the apron, and used its hand wheel to pull the shafts from their collars.
That worked out super slick!
There is a Brass plug inside of the collar, that you need to keep an eye out for.
Next, I removed the two large hex bolts that attache the bearing bracket for the shafts to the frame at the tail of the lathe. Once the bolts are out a few light taps and the bracket came right off of the shafts.
There is a loose alignment pin between the bracket and the bed, so its important to keep and eye out for it.
The bearings in the bracket are clearly toast. Once has grenaded it's self in side of the bracket, the other has separated into two halves. So they will need to get replaced.
Now, is a good time to recognize the difference in the types of drifts / punches and their uses. A good brass drift set and get you by for a lot of projects, but having the correct tool makes it quite bit easier.
For the tapper pin, I would normally prefer to press it out. But I cant use my arbor press in this case and the portable press I made for the other pins on the lathe, won't fit between the shaft and the casting. So the only option is to punch it out. For this case, a good taper punch is the best tool to use to get the pin moving, as tapper punches have the tips ground with a concave profile to keep the punch from moving and missing your target.
I really like my Starrett set for these.
The trick with the taper pins, is that can be tough to tell what end is the small end to tap, especially when they have been covered in years of grime. So you have a 50/50 chance of moving it the correct direction on the first try.
After trying to tap it a few times from either side and letting it soak in Kroil and PB Blaster, it was clear it wasn't going to move without some extra help. So out comes the torch, and I heated it on both ends for 5 minutes or so.
A few light raps with the tapered punch, and the pin moved quite a bit. I then finished tapping it through using a steel pin punch. Next, I removed the setscrew in the collar that held the feed rod in. To get the shafts out, I then engaged the half nuts on the apron, and used its hand wheel to pull the shafts from their collars.
That worked out super slick!
There is a Brass plug inside of the collar, that you need to keep an eye out for.
Next, I removed the two large hex bolts that attache the bearing bracket for the shafts to the frame at the tail of the lathe. Once the bolts are out a few light taps and the bracket came right off of the shafts.
There is a loose alignment pin between the bracket and the bed, so its important to keep and eye out for it.
The bearings in the bracket are clearly toast. Once has grenaded it's self in side of the bracket, the other has separated into two halves. So they will need to get replaced.
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OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Next, the Left / Right feed selector needs to get removed. Start by making sure all of the oil is drained from the head stock.
First step is to unscrew the micrometer dial from the end of the shaft, and then rotate the shaft and pull it towards the head of the lathe.
The casting for the selector is held on by three hex bolts, but one is behind the spring loaded indexing latch on the left side of the unit. That has four hex screws that hold it in place.
When removing it, be careful that you dont loose the spring loaded latch, I found out the hard way that it wants to go flying!
Now the three screws holding the assembly to the gear box can be removed, and a few light taps to break the paint seal and it slides right out.
It's amazing solid this thing is, when all it does is move a yoke on the main spindle to then engage forward / reverse. Total overkill.
First step is to unscrew the micrometer dial from the end of the shaft, and then rotate the shaft and pull it towards the head of the lathe.
The casting for the selector is held on by three hex bolts, but one is behind the spring loaded indexing latch on the left side of the unit. That has four hex screws that hold it in place.
When removing it, be careful that you dont loose the spring loaded latch, I found out the hard way that it wants to go flying!
Now the three screws holding the assembly to the gear box can be removed, and a few light taps to break the paint seal and it slides right out.
It's amazing solid this thing is, when all it does is move a yoke on the main spindle to then engage forward / reverse. Total overkill.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Next, the gear train at the head of the lathe needs to be removed to free the gear box.
I started by removing the feed shaft pulley, its held on by a #4 countersunk external tooth lock washer and nut. You need to pry one of the washer's tabs back from the nuts washers, then use a strap wrench on the pull and a hook spanner on the nut to remove it.
I then used a carbide scribe to make a witness mark to indicate what side of the fully faces out.
Up next is the gear train.
This looked intimidating at first, as I want to make sure I can get it all back in the correct order. So my plan originally was to add witness marks prior to disassembly, but upon closer inspection the gears all ready had them on the sides facing out from the factory.
The top gear has a stamp on it that looks like an arch.
The gear bellow it has a "Q" and a light "G" stamped in it.
The third gear down, has a "Q" and "P" stamped into it.
To remove the gears, its important to loosen all of the nuts prior to removing any of them, that way you can use their mechanical advantage to your favor. I learned that the hard way. Simply place a piece of wood between two of the gears and loosen all of the retaining nuts.
You can then go back and remove each of the gears. I did it in order from top down.
Once the smallest gear is removed you can then remove the curved quadrant clamp to the right of the gear train.
I started by removing the feed shaft pulley, its held on by a #4 countersunk external tooth lock washer and nut. You need to pry one of the washer's tabs back from the nuts washers, then use a strap wrench on the pull and a hook spanner on the nut to remove it.
I then used a carbide scribe to make a witness mark to indicate what side of the fully faces out.
Up next is the gear train.
This looked intimidating at first, as I want to make sure I can get it all back in the correct order. So my plan originally was to add witness marks prior to disassembly, but upon closer inspection the gears all ready had them on the sides facing out from the factory.
The top gear has a stamp on it that looks like an arch.
The gear bellow it has a "Q" and a light "G" stamped in it.
The third gear down, has a "Q" and "P" stamped into it.
To remove the gears, its important to loosen all of the nuts prior to removing any of them, that way you can use their mechanical advantage to your favor. I learned that the hard way. Simply place a piece of wood between two of the gears and loosen all of the retaining nuts.
You can then go back and remove each of the gears. I did it in order from top down.
Once the smallest gear is removed you can then remove the curved quadrant clamp to the right of the gear train.
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OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
You can then remove the quadrant bracket. Mine was a firm press fit. I was able to get it off by rotating it up and down while simultaneously pulling on it.
So here is what you are left with.
Now that is out of the way, you can remove the feed shaft bearing assembly. It is the unit to the left with the large oil fill. It is held on by 4 hex screws. It pulls straight out.
Notice there is a large retaining ring that is clearly out of place. As is the bearing right behind it. I'll disassemble that unit latter, clean everything, check the bearing then push everything back into place. There is an obvious grove in the casting that is supposed to hold that bearing in place.
The unit to the right of the feed bearing assembly is the tumbler shaft clutch assembly. It is held in place by 4 hex bolts.
It should all pullout as one unit. Mine seemed totally froze, so I used a long brass drift and tapped the sides of the bolt counterbores, to get it to free left to right. I could then pull it off.
Unfortunately, the inner bearing was toast and separated when I removed it. That will have to get replaced. I'll need to carefully inspect the rest and replace if need.
Fortunately the rest of the assembly easily pulled out by hand.
All thats left for the gear box removal, is to remove the 4 long hex bolts on its face and then give it a few light taps to break the paint sealing it in place.
I was able to lift it out myself, but its really a two person job.
Notice the nest of something that was in there with it.
And yes, those are dead baby mice, well preserved in oil. Gross. I guess thats too be expected as the guys shop where I picked the lathe up at was absolutely filthy.
So here is what you are left with.
Now that is out of the way, you can remove the feed shaft bearing assembly. It is the unit to the left with the large oil fill. It is held on by 4 hex screws. It pulls straight out.
Notice there is a large retaining ring that is clearly out of place. As is the bearing right behind it. I'll disassemble that unit latter, clean everything, check the bearing then push everything back into place. There is an obvious grove in the casting that is supposed to hold that bearing in place.
The unit to the right of the feed bearing assembly is the tumbler shaft clutch assembly. It is held in place by 4 hex bolts.
It should all pullout as one unit. Mine seemed totally froze, so I used a long brass drift and tapped the sides of the bolt counterbores, to get it to free left to right. I could then pull it off.
Unfortunately, the inner bearing was toast and separated when I removed it. That will have to get replaced. I'll need to carefully inspect the rest and replace if need.
Fortunately the rest of the assembly easily pulled out by hand.
All thats left for the gear box removal, is to remove the 4 long hex bolts on its face and then give it a few light taps to break the paint sealing it in place.
I was able to lift it out myself, but its really a two person job.
Notice the nest of something that was in there with it.
And yes, those are dead baby mice, well preserved in oil. Gross. I guess thats too be expected as the guys shop where I picked the lathe up at was absolutely filthy.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Now, we can finally get to removing the head stock.
First the oil line to it needs to get removed.
I had to lightly pull on the copper tube while loosening the compression nut to get it to unseat.
Next, the cast iron cover for the main breaker on the back of the machine needs to get removed. Under it you will find two sets of wires that lead into the casting of the head stock from bellow.
I dont want to mess with the wiring of that panel unless I absolutely have to as its all in really good shape. So best to disconnect the wires from the main forward / reverse switch.
On the front of the head stock, directly bellow the switch control lever is a set screw, it needs to be removed. Next on the side of the head stock directly under the spindle is a second set screw. This needs to be removed. This covers, yet a third set screw behind it, that needs to be loosened.
The switch control lever assembly can then be pulled straight out.
Once again, it is complete overkill in design, all the lever does is activate a switch!
On the backside of the head stock, is a round access panel with four countersunk screws holding it in place.
You can then pull the switch unit right out.
With the wires on the bottom, the side facing the end gear of the lath, has the wires labeled from the panel to shaft as Red 27, Blk 26 in the middle with a jumper wire to the middle of the switches other side, and then bulk #25 next to the shaft.
On the other side of the switch, closest to the plate is Red #26, then the jumper wire from the other side and finally a black wire with a cheap blue connector on it next to the shaft. I'll replace that with a better quality one. Note, both the contacts that the red wires attached to are quite worn. I'll have to see if I can find replacements for them. Once the wires are discounted from the switch, you can fish them from out of the head stock.
Next, the head stock is secured by two clamps at the gear drive end, and two large bolts on the tail side.
The tail bolts where quite tight, so I used the torch to heat them. I could then back them out.
On the other end, loosen the two bolts holding the strap clamps to the bed.
I had a hard time with my snapon wrench to get access on the front bolt, so ended up having to use a shorter craftsman wrench from inside the bear box housing to get it loose.
There are two locating pins under the head stock spindle, so the headstock needs to be lifted straight up when removing it. I enlisted my neighbor to help as its really heavy! Next on the to do list will be to remove the apron.
First the oil line to it needs to get removed.
I had to lightly pull on the copper tube while loosening the compression nut to get it to unseat.
Next, the cast iron cover for the main breaker on the back of the machine needs to get removed. Under it you will find two sets of wires that lead into the casting of the head stock from bellow.
I dont want to mess with the wiring of that panel unless I absolutely have to as its all in really good shape. So best to disconnect the wires from the main forward / reverse switch.
On the front of the head stock, directly bellow the switch control lever is a set screw, it needs to be removed. Next on the side of the head stock directly under the spindle is a second set screw. This needs to be removed. This covers, yet a third set screw behind it, that needs to be loosened.
The switch control lever assembly can then be pulled straight out.
Once again, it is complete overkill in design, all the lever does is activate a switch!
On the backside of the head stock, is a round access panel with four countersunk screws holding it in place.
You can then pull the switch unit right out.
With the wires on the bottom, the side facing the end gear of the lath, has the wires labeled from the panel to shaft as Red 27, Blk 26 in the middle with a jumper wire to the middle of the switches other side, and then bulk #25 next to the shaft.
On the other side of the switch, closest to the plate is Red #26, then the jumper wire from the other side and finally a black wire with a cheap blue connector on it next to the shaft. I'll replace that with a better quality one. Note, both the contacts that the red wires attached to are quite worn. I'll have to see if I can find replacements for them. Once the wires are discounted from the switch, you can fish them from out of the head stock.
Next, the head stock is secured by two clamps at the gear drive end, and two large bolts on the tail side.
The tail bolts where quite tight, so I used the torch to heat them. I could then back them out.
On the other end, loosen the two bolts holding the strap clamps to the bed.
I had a hard time with my snapon wrench to get access on the front bolt, so ended up having to use a shorter craftsman wrench from inside the bear box housing to get it loose.
There are two locating pins under the head stock spindle, so the headstock needs to be lifted straight up when removing it. I enlisted my neighbor to help as its really heavy! Next on the to do list will be to remove the apron.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Thanks. It's nice having the brains of Garage Journal to help out too.
I do have a slide hammer, but there is no good way to attached it to the plug. I ended up resorting to heat and it worked great. It's also amazing how long after to heat it, that the cast iron retains its heat. I guess thats why it's also so good for cooking.
Thanks. I have been fortunate to have had a lot of covers of ski media over the years but a NatGeo cover is a bit special. Evidently I have a bunch of images in the book as well, but I have yet to get my hands on a copy of it, as its only available for pre-sale on Amazon until the end of October.
I'd like to take better photos of the tear down process, but I am resorting to using my phone as there is no way I am going to expose my work cameras and lenses to the grease and oil in the shop.
Grant - you are doing very nice work on that machine. I had one for a time about 20 years ago and it was almost a work of art in the shop and it looks like yours will be the same. I really did not see a lot of closeups of the ways - how are they? When you pull the carriage (a bear of a job in itself) be sure to flush out all of the oil lines and passages and just go ahead and replace the oilers with the correct new ones (pricey but it will be good for another 50 years). For manual machine way oil I have switched my machines over to Conoco Hydro-clear from the old Vactra - it is much cleaner and does not end up with the sulphur settling out and clogging everything up over the years.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Thanks. I am really hoping it all turns out good when its finished. Its nice having tools that not only perform well, but look good too. I've found that having an appreciation for the quality of the machine, forces you to slow down and think out your process when using it more. That ultimate ends up in a better quality end result.... or at least seems to hold true for me.
I was un-aware (but not surprised) that they changed the design of the oilers. I haven't gotten it torn down enough yet, to know what the factory ones look like. Do you have any info on the new design or a product link?
I have been using the Vacrta for the Bridgeport, but will need a bigger bottle of the lathe, so I'll have to try the Hydro-clear for it. Thanks for the info!
The replacements that I got looked the same as the old ones but they were not corroded or clogged like the old ones - they just worked like they should. Some of the old ones were totally stopped up and at least another just drooled oil out so I ended up with very uneven oiling. When I got the machine it had been in storage for at least ten years but had been nicely repainted some time in the past. Just had a lot of problems from sitting for too long. The drives in the older round dial machines are basically scaled down elevator drives and are pretty reliable but when you get a lot of oxidation and humidity in the windings you can get a lot of arcs under load. I cleaned the motor contacts and changed the brushes and put an old school worklight in the motor compartment to warm everything up for a month or two and it behaved much better. My dad used to be an industrial electrician in the 50s and 60s and that was his suggestion - get everything warm, dry, and clean and it will be happier. Went through several cans of CRC contact and electrical winding cleaner doing that.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
After a weekend of doing a bunch of alpine riding, I'm ready to remove the Apron.
First step is to remove the dovetail block on the left side of the Apron.
When working on anything with slotted screws, I really like using my PBSwiss drivers. They have hollow ground tips and won't cam out or strip the screws like a standard screw driver. Plus I have a set of them from size 00 to 8 so a perfect fit for every screw.
I also have a full set of Wera drivers that have a full metal shank with a ¼ drive in the head, so you have tap on them to free stubborn fasteners, then use a ratchet for additional leverage. These saved me with a few of the way wiper screws.
Once thats out of the way, the way wiper behind it can be removed, along with the rest of the wipers.
Next, I removed the Chasing dial assembly.
It is held in place by the 2 hex screws on the far right.
Once the screws where removed, it took a little bit of wiggling it around to work it free, and then it just slid right down.
It can sure use a good cleaning!
Now thats out of the way the main screw just slides out of the apron toward the tail of the lathe.
The screw has a considerable amount of wear in the center. So while its still functional, it would be a good idea to replace it if I can find one in good shape for a reasonable price....
First step is to remove the dovetail block on the left side of the Apron.
When working on anything with slotted screws, I really like using my PBSwiss drivers. They have hollow ground tips and won't cam out or strip the screws like a standard screw driver. Plus I have a set of them from size 00 to 8 so a perfect fit for every screw.
I also have a full set of Wera drivers that have a full metal shank with a ¼ drive in the head, so you have tap on them to free stubborn fasteners, then use a ratchet for additional leverage. These saved me with a few of the way wiper screws.
Once thats out of the way, the way wiper behind it can be removed, along with the rest of the wipers.
Next, I removed the Chasing dial assembly.
It is held in place by the 2 hex screws on the far right.
Once the screws where removed, it took a little bit of wiggling it around to work it free, and then it just slid right down.
It can sure use a good cleaning!
Now thats out of the way the main screw just slides out of the apron toward the tail of the lathe.
The screw has a considerable amount of wear in the center. So while its still functional, it would be a good idea to replace it if I can find one in good shape for a reasonable price....
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OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Next, I removed the hand wheel from the carriage to get it out of the way. I used the pin spanner that I made to unscrew the cap retainer.
Once that screw is out, then the hand wheel clutch just pulls right off. I actually had no idea that was a clutch until I looked it up in the parts manual. There is a round wire retaining ring on the outside of it that acts as a spring for a pin that is inside it opposite of the keyway. Its filthy, so once its cleaned up, I might get a better understanding of how thats supposed to actually function.
Behind the clutch is another round wire retaining ring that keeps the handle from sliding off.
The feed shaft comes out next. I was hoping to leave its coupling on it along with the stop and pull it out the opposite direction of the lead screw.
So I removed the two dog point set screws in the bottom of the apron. I also removed both oil drain plugs and got a minuscule amount of oil out of them.
that doesn't work. As the shaft has a key way out in it that stops it even with the dog point set screws fully removed.
So I has to break the torch back out and heat up the tapered pin. Once it was good and hot, I used the pin press I made to push it out.
I then removed the set screw on the stop bushing. Once that was free, I used the feed shaft as a long slide hammer against the spring body to gently tap the stop collar and coupling off.
The shaft then easily slides out towards the tail just like the lead screw.
Once that screw is out, then the hand wheel clutch just pulls right off. I actually had no idea that was a clutch until I looked it up in the parts manual. There is a round wire retaining ring on the outside of it that acts as a spring for a pin that is inside it opposite of the keyway. Its filthy, so once its cleaned up, I might get a better understanding of how thats supposed to actually function.
Behind the clutch is another round wire retaining ring that keeps the handle from sliding off.
The feed shaft comes out next. I was hoping to leave its coupling on it along with the stop and pull it out the opposite direction of the lead screw.
So I removed the two dog point set screws in the bottom of the apron. I also removed both oil drain plugs and got a minuscule amount of oil out of them.that doesn't work. As the shaft has a key way out in it that stops it even with the dog point set screws fully removed.
So I has to break the torch back out and heat up the tapered pin. Once it was good and hot, I used the pin press I made to push it out.
I then removed the set screw on the stop bushing. Once that was free, I used the feed shaft as a long slide hammer against the spring body to gently tap the stop collar and coupling off.
The shaft then easily slides out towards the tail just like the lead screw.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
With all of that done I can now remove the apron its self. First the clamp bolt needs to be removed.
I then removed the center two hex bolts, and replaced them with some long ⅜ bolts with washers and snugged the nuts.
Once those where in place, I loosened all of the remaining hex bolts, then removed them all. I could then use the long ⅜ bolts to slowly lower the apron on to a 2/6 that I laid across the base.
Right about now, is when I realized that I forgot to discount the oil line from the apron to the carriage!
Luckily I hadn't moved the apron too far, so nothing was damaged.
Here is a top shot looking into the apron with the clamp block in place.
I then removed the center two hex bolts, and replaced them with some long ⅜ bolts with washers and snugged the nuts.
Once those where in place, I loosened all of the remaining hex bolts, then removed them all. I could then use the long ⅜ bolts to slowly lower the apron on to a 2/6 that I laid across the base.
Right about now, is when I realized that I forgot to discount the oil line from the apron to the carriage!
Luckily I hadn't moved the apron too far, so nothing was damaged.
Here is a top shot looking into the apron with the clamp block in place.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Now its time to remove the carriage. It is held on by two sets of roller bearings on the back of the lathe.
Each roller bearings assembly is just held in place with two socket head screws.
I then removed the square head screw from the back of the carriage.
It turns out that could have just stayed in place. Note that was a standard bolt that someone ground square.... odd.
The carriage then easily lifts right off. I am running out of bench tops to put parts on, so on the floor it goes.
Next, I removed the 3 bolts that hold the main switch in place. There is one screw top center
and two more down bellow.
I then removed the two screws holding the transformer in place. Btw, note the rubber grommets used to insulated the machine from the panel.
Note, there appears to be a pipe plug for a drain hole In the casting bellow the electronics.
I then used a mallet to tap the bracket with the head retaining bolts out of the bed.
Each roller bearings assembly is just held in place with two socket head screws.
I then removed the square head screw from the back of the carriage.
It turns out that could have just stayed in place. Note that was a standard bolt that someone ground square.... odd.
The carriage then easily lifts right off. I am running out of bench tops to put parts on, so on the floor it goes.
Next, I removed the 3 bolts that hold the main switch in place. There is one screw top center
and two more down bellow.
I then removed the two screws holding the transformer in place. Btw, note the rubber grommets used to insulated the machine from the panel.
Note, there appears to be a pipe plug for a drain hole In the casting bellow the electronics.
I then used a mallet to tap the bracket with the head retaining bolts out of the bed.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
The bed of the lathe is now held in place by a total of 6 bolts. Four are bellow the head of the lathe.
The other two are bellow the tail section. All of the bolts are identical.
I then pulled the alignment pins from the bed that where bellow the head stock.
There was also a angled bracket on the back of the bed bellow the headstock that I removed.
Note the oil drains from the bed where totally clogged up.
The bed of the lathe is now completely free. Its also very heavy. So I need to borrow an engine hoist to lift it off. I'm hoping to be able to do that at some point tomorrow.
Next I removed two bolts form the main casting on either side of the bed.
I then started to work on pulling the feed racks from bellow the bed. There are two of them. Each is held in place by 2 socket head screws and two pins. I got everything removed, but have one pin still stuck in each rack. Even after multiple attempts at heating and tapping, I decided to soak them in PB blaster overnight.
I then started to work on cleaning up the lead screw bearing plate assembly. The feed rod side has two hex screws retaining the outer plates on both sides. These need to be removed first.
All of the plates can then easily be pressed out with a drift. Note I found a retaining ring on the lead screw side...
So thats telling me, the bearings should go on the shaft first when reassembling everything and then the bearing plate will go over them. When I took it apart there was no way the bearings where coming out of the bracket with the shafts.
The bearings are toast and all of the grease was crystalized rock hard. So time to put it into the ultrasonic cleaner, and inspect the bearings so I can order proper replacements.
The other two are bellow the tail section. All of the bolts are identical.
I then pulled the alignment pins from the bed that where bellow the head stock.
There was also a angled bracket on the back of the bed bellow the headstock that I removed.
Note the oil drains from the bed where totally clogged up.
The bed of the lathe is now completely free. Its also very heavy. So I need to borrow an engine hoist to lift it off. I'm hoping to be able to do that at some point tomorrow.
Next I removed two bolts form the main casting on either side of the bed.
I then started to work on pulling the feed racks from bellow the bed. There are two of them. Each is held in place by 2 socket head screws and two pins. I got everything removed, but have one pin still stuck in each rack. Even after multiple attempts at heating and tapping, I decided to soak them in PB blaster overnight.
I then started to work on cleaning up the lead screw bearing plate assembly. The feed rod side has two hex screws retaining the outer plates on both sides. These need to be removed first.
All of the plates can then easily be pressed out with a drift. Note I found a retaining ring on the lead screw side...
So thats telling me, the bearings should go on the shaft first when reassembling everything and then the bearing plate will go over them. When I took it apart there was no way the bearings where coming out of the bracket with the shafts.
The bearings are toast and all of the grease was crystalized rock hard. So time to put it into the ultrasonic cleaner, and inspect the bearings so I can order proper replacements.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
I have been trying various heat cycles on trying to get the rack pins out. While they are soaking again in Kroil, I decided to work on cleaning up some of the parts on the work bench.
First I needed to press the bearings out of the end gears I pulled, so that I can put the gears into the Ultrasonic cleaner.
Step 1 is to remove the locking rings on both sides of the gears. These gears use two New Departure C487505V bearings with snap rings on each side. I ended up using the new Proto / Wilde snap ring pliers I just got as my craftsman ones had too much deflection to get the rings off. Here is a link to the thread where I was trying to decide what snap ring pliers to buy and why I went with these.
Next the center bushing needs to get pressed out. I used a brass drift and my arbor press for this.
There bearings can then be pressed out. I used a large socket as a drift as I didn't have any drifts the correct size.
One bearing on each gear, still felt like it had some life left in it, but one on each was completely toast.
Remember the bearing on the tumbler shaft assembly separated when I removed it from the lathe. So I was faced with a challenge of how to get the inner race off.
What I ended up doing was to hold the bearing by the jaws of my vice. I then used a piece of black Iron pipe that fit one of the shafts steps perfectly and then taped it out.
That went a hell of a lot easier than I had expected. Inside of the tumbler shaft cup, is another bearing thats fully pressed in.
There is no way to press it out, and no room to get a blind bearing puller behind it. Luckily the engineers at Monrach where thinking ahead, and they had drilled two access holes for inserting a pin punch to tap the bearing out.
Most of the original bearings for the end gear on my 10EE are shot, and since I have it all apart now is the best time to replace all of them.
I know New Departure is long out of business, and I suspect that modern bearing technology has only surpassed what was used in the lathe back in 1944. So trying to figure out modern replacements.
I am no expert in bearing nomenclature and most of what I typically work on is pretty standard off the shelf bearings for high-end mountian bikes.
The bearing numbers I am looking at replacing are:
New Departure C487505V. No idea what the C is, but the V is SNAP RING LOCATED ON OPPOSITE SIDE FROM STANDARD
New Departure NM0205B. No Idea what NM stands for. the B is DIMENSIONAL AND/OR INTERNAL DEVIATION WHEN SUFFIXED TO STANDARD BEARING NUMBER
New Departure C8505. No idea what the C is
Am I correct in thinking that all 3 of the above bearings are ABEC 5 rated?
The last bearing is made by SKF
2202 HC LW02. No Idea what HC or LW02 stand for.
So if anyone has any insight to what bearings to replace these with I would love to have some feed back and at least a rough idea of what to ask about before I head into the local industrial bearing supply shop.
Thanks!
First I needed to press the bearings out of the end gears I pulled, so that I can put the gears into the Ultrasonic cleaner.
Step 1 is to remove the locking rings on both sides of the gears. These gears use two New Departure C487505V bearings with snap rings on each side. I ended up using the new Proto / Wilde snap ring pliers I just got as my craftsman ones had too much deflection to get the rings off. Here is a link to the thread where I was trying to decide what snap ring pliers to buy and why I went with these.
Next the center bushing needs to get pressed out. I used a brass drift and my arbor press for this.
There bearings can then be pressed out. I used a large socket as a drift as I didn't have any drifts the correct size.
One bearing on each gear, still felt like it had some life left in it, but one on each was completely toast.
Remember the bearing on the tumbler shaft assembly separated when I removed it from the lathe. So I was faced with a challenge of how to get the inner race off.
What I ended up doing was to hold the bearing by the jaws of my vice. I then used a piece of black Iron pipe that fit one of the shafts steps perfectly and then taped it out.
That went a hell of a lot easier than I had expected. Inside of the tumbler shaft cup, is another bearing thats fully pressed in.
There is no way to press it out, and no room to get a blind bearing puller behind it. Luckily the engineers at Monrach where thinking ahead, and they had drilled two access holes for inserting a pin punch to tap the bearing out.
Most of the original bearings for the end gear on my 10EE are shot, and since I have it all apart now is the best time to replace all of them.
I know New Departure is long out of business, and I suspect that modern bearing technology has only surpassed what was used in the lathe back in 1944. So trying to figure out modern replacements.
I am no expert in bearing nomenclature and most of what I typically work on is pretty standard off the shelf bearings for high-end mountian bikes.
The bearing numbers I am looking at replacing are:
New Departure C487505V. No idea what the C is, but the V is SNAP RING LOCATED ON OPPOSITE SIDE FROM STANDARD
New Departure NM0205B. No Idea what NM stands for. the B is DIMENSIONAL AND/OR INTERNAL DEVIATION WHEN SUFFIXED TO STANDARD BEARING NUMBER
New Departure C8505. No idea what the C is
Am I correct in thinking that all 3 of the above bearings are ABEC 5 rated?
The last bearing is made by SKF
2202 HC LW02. No Idea what HC or LW02 stand for.
So if anyone has any insight to what bearings to replace these with I would love to have some feed back and at least a rough idea of what to ask about before I head into the local industrial bearing supply shop.
Thanks!
Look up Accurate Bearing onlineI have been trying various heat cycles on trying to get the rack pins out. While they are soaking again in Kroil, I decided to work on cleaning up some of the parts on the work bench.
First I needed to press the bearings out of the end gears I pulled, so that I can put the gears into the Ultrasonic cleaner.
Step 1 is to remove the locking rings on both sides of the gears. These gears use two New Departure C487505V bearings with snap rings on each side. I ended up using the new Proto / Wilde snap ring pliers I just got as my craftsman ones had too much deflection to get the rings off. Here is a link to the thread where I was trying to decide what snap ring pliers to buy and why I went with these.
Next the center bushing needs to get pressed out. I used a brass drift and my arbor press for this.
There bearings can then be pressed out. I used a large socket as a drift as I didn't have any drifts the correct size.
One bearing on each gear, still felt like it had some life left in it, but one on each was completely toast.
Remember the bearing on the tumbler shaft assembly separated when I removed it from the lathe. So I was faced with a challenge of how to get the inner race off.
What I ended up doing was to hold the bearing by the jaws of my vice. I then used a piece of black Iron pipe that fit one of the shafts steps perfectly and then taped it out.
That went a hell of a lot easier than I had expected. Inside of the tumbler shaft cup, is another bearing thats fully pressed in.
There is no way to press it out, and no room to get a blind bearing puller behind it. Luckily the engineers at Monrach where thinking ahead, and they had drilled two access holes for inserting a pin punch to tap the bearing out.
Most of the original bearings for the end gear on my 10EE are shot, and since I have it all apart now is the best time to replace all of them.
I know New Departure is long out of business, and I suspect that modern bearing technology has only surpassed what was used in the lathe back in 1944. So trying to figure out modern replacements.
I am no expert in bearing nomenclature and most of what I typically work on is pretty standard off the shelf bearings for high-end mountian bikes.
The bearing numbers I am looking at replacing are:
New Departure C487505V. No idea what the C is, but the V is SNAP RING LOCATED ON OPPOSITE SIDE FROM STANDARD
New Departure NM0205B. No Idea what NM stands for. the B is DIMENSIONAL AND/OR INTERNAL DEVIATION WHEN SUFFIXED TO STANDARD BEARING NUMBER
New Departure C8505. No idea what the C is
Am I correct in thinking that all 3 of the above bearings are ABEC 5 rated?
The last bearing is made by SKF
2202 HC LW02. No Idea what HC or LW02 stand for.
So if anyone has any insight to what bearings to replace these with I would love to have some feed back and at least a rough idea of what to ask about before I head into the local industrial bearing supply shop.
Thanks!
The C means that it has a metal shield and V indicates the snap ring to retain it (OD is probably a thou or two under a press fit bearing). If you google the bearing numbers you can usually find a suitable replacement. BTY, you are doing a heck of a job and really make me happy that my Hardinges are in good shape. I have enough other projects to occupy me for the next 30 or so years.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Thanks. I'm going to see if the local bearing shop has suitable replacements in stock in the am.
I spent a good chunk of time using lacquer thiner on the lathe bed. I want to get as much of the old paint stripped off, while I have the lathe base under it. Hopefully tomorrow I can get those stubborn pins pushed out of the rack and then pull the bed.
I've been going over the parts that I pulled the last few days and slowly cleaning them in the ultrasonic cleaner. Its a slow process as many of them need 2 or 3 hour long baths.
The thread follower and both bearing brackets on the back of the carriage use the same design. Its an eccentric shaft with a bearing attached to it, and then a screw with a beveled lock washer to keep the eccentric shaft from rotating.
I removed the lock screw and its washer first.
Then I flipped the unit around and removed a small retaining ring on the end of the shaft that holds the bearing in place.
It can then be pulled apart. Note there is a beveled washer that goes between the bearing and the casting.
Next I removed the follower gear from the thread follower. Just needed a wrench to remove the bottom nut and used a pair of pliers on the bronze gears to keep the shaft from spinning.
I labeled the bronze gear "up" with a carbide scribe, so I can be sure to put it back with the same orientation. Most likely if I can find a new main screw, I will also replace the gear.
Here is the current state of the lathe. I need to shoot some more photos of the overall projects as it goes in addition to the detail shots.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
I spent over an hour with the guys at the local bearing shop. A few of the bearings had them a bit stumped as some of the bearings with the snapping orientations are not very common. $460 latter they where able to source all but one. I'm sure I could have found them a bit cheaper online, but I dont know if I would have gotten all of the correct flange and Gove combinations etc. Plus its worth paying a bit extra for their knowledge So it is what it is.
The one bearings that is pretty much unobtaioum is the NM0205B. Its a flanged bearing with a notch o note inner race. A close replacement is $250 for that one, and it doesn't have the correct notch.
However going back and looking at my pictures, that notch appears to get pressed int next to the flange on the Tumbler shaft, so it doesn't appear to do anything... so no idea why it has a notch. It does not align with any keyways or set screws, etc
So I think I am going to try to clean and lube that bearing first before attempting to oder one. At least the outer race does not show any pitting and only minimal burnishing from the balls... so chances are it will be fine, but I know in my gut that anytime I have skipped replacing a bearing when it was out, its come back to bite me latter.
The one bearings that is pretty much unobtaioum is the NM0205B. Its a flanged bearing with a notch o note inner race. A close replacement is $250 for that one, and it doesn't have the correct notch.
However going back and looking at my pictures, that notch appears to get pressed int next to the flange on the Tumbler shaft, so it doesn't appear to do anything... so no idea why it has a notch. It does not align with any keyways or set screws, etc
So I think I am going to try to clean and lube that bearing first before attempting to oder one. At least the outer race does not show any pitting and only minimal burnishing from the balls... so chances are it will be fine, but I know in my gut that anytime I have skipped replacing a bearing when it was out, its come back to bite me latter.
I suspect that during the war they used what they could get so that notch in the bearing might be for something totally different. From looking at the pictures of yours, it looks like it has the steel decorative bars on the cast door on the front of the base - non-wartime machines had polished aluminum ones that really looked nice but aluminum was too valuable to use for decorations then. I would just clean and grease the bearing and I am sure that it will last longer than you will.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
I agree with you on the bearing. All of the ones they used where top quality...like everything else on the lathe it was built without regard to costs. These lathes new cost several orders of magnitude more than the average house at the time. For the decorative steel pieces, I am thinking it would be nice to polish them up and then send them out to be chromed. I have never had any metal plating done, so not sure where to start with looking for a chrome shop and what prep needs to be done on my end. There is none local to me that I know of.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Well today has been quite productive with the lathe. After striping the rattle can paint job from the bed, I was pretty impressed that most the original factory paint was in good conditions. Surprised they even bothered to paint it. After stripping the paint, I found two more pins that where holding on the racks for the carriage. There is two sections of carriage racks that have 3 pins each holding it on, plus 2 SHCS each.
I had zero luck trying to tap those pins out from the front, so I used some ¼ Steel dowls.
I placed them in the holes behind the bed, and then used a long drift to tap them and thus the pins / racks out.
Just goes to show why its best to clean stuff as much as possible before dissasmbly as that would have saved me a ton of time trying to heat and tap the pins that I knew of... then again all of those heat / cold cycles may have helped make it so easy to tap them out today.
With the racks removed, and the paint mostly stripped, is time to pull the bed. I originally tried with a strap around the same spot Monarch recommends for lifting the lathe.
That didn't work, as its way to unbalanced for lifting just the bed.
So I resorted to a longer lift strap that went around both brackets in the bed. That worked great!
And here is the lathe with the bed stripped.
While a lot of people will say, you didn't need to pull the bed, I would disagree. Under neath the bed there is a reservoir to catch oil, etc. I had no idea that was there.
The drain for it, was fully plugged and truth be told I dont think I would have found it with the bed on.
That will have to ged fully cleaned out. Plus had I tried to paint with that there I would have had a bunch of oil seeping out running the paint.
I also noticed there was one shim underneath the back side of the tail stock end of the bed as well.
I had zero luck trying to tap those pins out from the front, so I used some ¼ Steel dowls.
I placed them in the holes behind the bed, and then used a long drift to tap them and thus the pins / racks out.
Just goes to show why its best to clean stuff as much as possible before dissasmbly as that would have saved me a ton of time trying to heat and tap the pins that I knew of... then again all of those heat / cold cycles may have helped make it so easy to tap them out today.
With the racks removed, and the paint mostly stripped, is time to pull the bed. I originally tried with a strap around the same spot Monarch recommends for lifting the lathe.
That didn't work, as its way to unbalanced for lifting just the bed.
So I resorted to a longer lift strap that went around both brackets in the bed. That worked great!
And here is the lathe with the bed stripped.
While a lot of people will say, you didn't need to pull the bed, I would disagree. Under neath the bed there is a reservoir to catch oil, etc. I had no idea that was there.
The drain for it, was fully plugged and truth be told I dont think I would have found it with the bed on.
That will have to ged fully cleaned out. Plus had I tried to paint with that there I would have had a bunch of oil seeping out running the paint.
I also noticed there was one shim underneath the back side of the tail stock end of the bed as well.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Next, I removed the name plate and the hooks for the draw bar.
The DC exciter is connected to the top two terminals on the right of DC generator panel. I removed those wires and labeled them with permasleve same as I did for the DC control panel wiring earlier.
The field winding from the DC exciter is connected directly to wire #3 from the DC Generator via a nut and bolt and electrical tape.... we won't be using electrical tape going forward. I disconnected those and labeled them with permasleve. I could then discounted the conduit form the DC generator panel.
The DC exciter is attached to the DC generator by two bolts in the back.
It is imposible to get a wrench or a socket on top of the one on the back side of the lathe. If you look closely the studs where set way lower on that side with the top nut just done hand tight.
So I had to back down the leveling nut on that side first, then by hand remove the nuts from the top.
The belt tensioner in the front can then be backed off, using an alignment pin in the hole in its shaft.
The DC Exciter is now out. That wasn't too bad and its not horribly heavy.
The DC exciter is connected to the top two terminals on the right of DC generator panel. I removed those wires and labeled them with permasleve same as I did for the DC control panel wiring earlier.
The field winding from the DC exciter is connected directly to wire #3 from the DC Generator via a nut and bolt and electrical tape.... we won't be using electrical tape going forward. I disconnected those and labeled them with permasleve. I could then discounted the conduit form the DC generator panel.
The DC exciter is attached to the DC generator by two bolts in the back.
It is imposible to get a wrench or a socket on top of the one on the back side of the lathe. If you look closely the studs where set way lower on that side with the top nut just done hand tight.
So I had to back down the leveling nut on that side first, then by hand remove the nuts from the top.
The belt tensioner in the front can then be backed off, using an alignment pin in the hole in its shaft.
The DC Exciter is now out. That wasn't too bad and its not horribly heavy.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
The DC generator comes out next.
It was held in place by 4 beefy socket head bolts and its was resting on top of some square pieces of rubber for anti vibration. Once unbolted it then pulls straight out. Its heavy, but was manageable by my self.
There is now space to access the bolts at the back of the DC motor.
The motor is mounted to a large steel plate that is intern mounted to the casting with rubber isolation. 4 Bolts secure the motor to the plate. I used a long ⅜ flex ratchet and a 1" socket to pull the back bolts first.
Before I pulled the front bolts, I removed the bracket that serves as a stop for the main DC panel.
I then pulled both bolts from the front.
The motor was F'n heavy to pull by myself. Not sure if there was room for a second person to have helped anyways. But I will need to find a way to get someone to help me lift it back in.
Note the DC motor was sitting on 4 square pieces of metal plus shims under each end. I'll bag and tag those separate, so I can reinstall with the shims in the same spots.
That was a big job! Time for a beer!
It was held in place by 4 beefy socket head bolts and its was resting on top of some square pieces of rubber for anti vibration. Once unbolted it then pulls straight out. Its heavy, but was manageable by my self.
There is now space to access the bolts at the back of the DC motor.
The motor is mounted to a large steel plate that is intern mounted to the casting with rubber isolation. 4 Bolts secure the motor to the plate. I used a long ⅜ flex ratchet and a 1" socket to pull the back bolts first.
Before I pulled the front bolts, I removed the bracket that serves as a stop for the main DC panel.
I then pulled both bolts from the front.
The motor was F'n heavy to pull by myself. Not sure if there was room for a second person to have helped anyways. But I will need to find a way to get someone to help me lift it back in.
Note the DC motor was sitting on 4 square pieces of metal plus shims under each end. I'll bag and tag those separate, so I can reinstall with the shims in the same spots.
That was a big job! Time for a beer!
Call your local Harley Davidson shop because bikers love chrome and they should be able to point you in the right direction. Are you going to get the motors re-dipped while you have them out? If you have a good local motor shop tell them what you have and they might be able to give them a long overdue PM.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
I think I found a Chrome shop about 45 minutes a way. Next time I am down that way, I'll stop in and see what kind of prep I need to do and see if I can get a cost estimate. It will just be a bunch of small parts, so hopefully not too expensive. I'm going to head into the local motor shop to get all new brushes for the motors, and see what the cost would be for them to re-dipp / check out the windings etc. Depending on the costs, ill have them do that. I think I will end up serving the bearings my self, but we will see.
I have found over the years working in the shop, that my biggest pet peeve is waist time looking for ****, especially tools. Back before I got myself organized, I found that some projects ended up taking 2-3 times longer than needed because of that.
I switched to using custom foam for my tool boxes a while ago, and found a company out of Germany called ToolBed. They make super high quality custom foam inserts and you can design the layout using their website. It works especially well with Snapon and most German /Euro tools, as they have a database of most of those tools scanned Into their system, so all you have to do is input the model number, and select where you want it to be placed. Here is the liners I just had redone for my new Vidmar tool chests and my Craftsman tower.
I use a ton of hex and Torx fasteners in what I typically work on. Everything also gets torqued to spec, so here is my top drawer on the left of my Vidmar cabinet.
All of the drawers bellow that are specially bike tools that I need to cut new foam for.
On the top of the right bank of my Vidmar cabinets is my ¼ and ⅜ drive sockets.
The next drawer bellow is all of my ½ drive stuff, including impact sockets.
The rest of the drawers bellow that are pliers, circlip / snapping pliers and specialty tools. I still need to get new foam cut for those drawers.
Here is the top drawer of my Craftsman tower set. Its stuff that I tend to use a lot, such as knifes, picks, tweezers, inspection tools etc.
The next drawer down is my Drifts / various punches.
Bellow that is my Electronics tool drawer.
Next up is my Metric wrench drawer.
And then finally my SAE wrench drawer.
Ok, Now that all of those tools are properly organized in their new homes, its time to get back to work on the lathe.
X2 On the book cover, i miss skiing.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Thanks! Maybe I will do one, once the rest of the drawers are done. Trinyg to decide if I can do Tool Bed for those, or just use Kaizen foam as their as a lot of specialty tools in their thats nots in their system.
Thanks! I am very fortunate that I get to do it for my day job.
csp
Well-known member
I worked in a shop that had chroming capabilities 30+ years ago and often times a customer doing prep work actually created more work for us. Generally just make sure that the parts are clean and let the chrome shop handle any repairs that may need to be done to the parts.
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
Hey guys,
I looked over my manual and couldn't find any info there.
I need to replace the brushes for my Motor Generator setup. I took them down to the local motor shop and they told me that I have to order the brushes on line, and they dont stock them... plus they only wanted to help me out with them if I had them service the motor gen set for $900! For that price, I'd be looking really hard at just converting to a new 3Phase setup.
Anyways I know I need knew brushes, and the lathe was running when I bought it, so I'm sure the motors will be fine after cleaning and fresh lube.
Any chance you guys can help point me in the right direction for ordering new brushes? I have not had any luck finding a cross reference with the brush part numbers anywhere, but then again I dont exactly know where to look.Its been 20 years since I had a basic Electrical Engineering class... I was a plastics major after all. So I know enough to know I dont know anything about electric motors.
The DC Motor is:
Frame 14-T
Serial number 827780
3HP
RPM 6900-2400
12 AMp
50 sdegree C 1HR duty
Shunt Wound
F/S 161-EQ-15
Field Maps 1.5
Rehostat Res 400 Ohms
230 Volt Armature 115 V Fields.
The 3 Phase AC to DC Generator is:
220 V, 13.2 Amps
440 Volts 6.6 Amps
3 Phase, 60 cycles
Frame 3 S
115 Exciter Volts
Serial Number 51 V 67
The only info I could find on the Exciter, as there is no name plate attached is the following stamp:
71718-2-RA
459570
Thanks Guys.
I looked over my manual and couldn't find any info there.
I need to replace the brushes for my Motor Generator setup. I took them down to the local motor shop and they told me that I have to order the brushes on line, and they dont stock them... plus they only wanted to help me out with them if I had them service the motor gen set for $900! For that price, I'd be looking really hard at just converting to a new 3Phase setup.
Anyways I know I need knew brushes, and the lathe was running when I bought it, so I'm sure the motors will be fine after cleaning and fresh lube.
Any chance you guys can help point me in the right direction for ordering new brushes? I have not had any luck finding a cross reference with the brush part numbers anywhere, but then again I dont exactly know where to look.Its been 20 years since I had a basic Electrical Engineering class... I was a plastics major after all. So I know enough to know I dont know anything about electric motors.
The DC Motor is:
Frame 14-T
Serial number 827780
3HP
RPM 6900-2400
12 AMp
50 sdegree C 1HR duty
Shunt Wound
F/S 161-EQ-15
Field Maps 1.5
Rehostat Res 400 Ohms
230 Volt Armature 115 V Fields.
The 3 Phase AC to DC Generator is:
220 V, 13.2 Amps
440 Volts 6.6 Amps
3 Phase, 60 cycles
Frame 3 S
115 Exciter Volts
Serial Number 51 V 67
The only info I could find on the Exciter, as there is no name plate attached is the following stamp:
71718-2-RA
459570
Thanks Guys.
Supposedly Monarch still has brushes for these (https://monarchlathe.com/services/parts) so that would be the first place that I would try. I have a British spec Hardinge HLV-BK (the older narrow bed version) that the previous owner converted to VFD drive from the old reeves drive setup (220 volt VFD to a step up transformer) and the machine runs nicely and is very smooth. Only downside is you lose a lot of the low speed torque unless you step up the motor size. I did see a 10EE that was nicely converted with a Baldor super efficient 10HP motor and a 10HP VFD that was wired up through the original controls. Unless you can find a good deal on the motor and vfd, expect to spend at least $2500 on the conversion but it should match the torque at low speed of the original and be scary strong at higher speeds (you will probably need to detune it through the VFD PLC interface).
OP
Grant Gunderson
Well-known member
I'll have to reach out to Monarch on Monday. My gut tells me that these motors etc where used in more than just these machines, so I would think if it was possible to find the part number those brushes would be fairly available via a brush supplier.
Today, I pulled the base plate for the motor. Its a thick piece of steel that is mounted using 3 bolts, with rubber disks above and bellow the bolts for vibration isolation. The torque on all three bolts was surprisingly quite low. Just a bit more than hand tight.
Next, I removed the last of the electrical. I stared with the power switch.
I used a carbide scribe and labeled each connection.
I then used my lable make and more permatex heat shrink labels and labeled each wire accordingly.
Next, I turned my attention to the main power input to the machine.
I was quite happy to see that the machine was wired with a ground!
I then used the label make again and label each of the wires.
I then loosen all of the remaining conduits
I then unscrewed the box from the main switch panel. I also removed the main power box ( that one just unscrews from its conduit.
