Recommendations for a high teens CFM compressor?

[Fallon]

My current Kobalt 5hp (which I doubt is really 5hp) 60 gallon 14cfm @90psi compressor has barely been keeping up with some of my sandblasting. Recently the tank pinholed & I'm looking for a new tank for it. I got the compressor in a trade for a snowblower, so it has been used a fair bit & no idea of it's maintenance history. Even if/when I replace the tank I'm seriously thinking about replacing the compressor & looking for recommendations.

I'm thinking something that will put out high teens of CFM in the 175psi range, probably a real 5hp, maybe 7.5hp should take care of my needs. There are a handful in the big box home & ranch stores around & I'm looking for some recommendations. I hear IR, Quincy & Champion being highly recommended, but also that some of their stuff I'm looking at in the little over $1,000 range probably isn't going to stand up to their reputation on higher end systems.

Ideally I'd like to fine a nice beefy industrial compressor I could rebuild, but I haven't seen anything that doesn't look beat to hell or at a price point I could rebuild and/or re-power it to single phase. Also, given my current tank failing on me has me a little gun shy about dealing with a used tank that may have not been drained often & have rust issues hiding.

Any recommendations? Manufacturers, pump models, etc. I should be looking for? Just quickly re-tank my current one (maybe even with a smaller tank off a oil-less compressor) hold out for an old industrial compressor I can rebuild & maybe replace the tank (eventually) & possibly motor on?

 

[engineer2]

I went through this same exercise not long ago.
New industrial 2-stage compressors are north of $2000. In my humble opinion, the top brands (that are available in the midwest) in terms of reputation seem to be:
Saylor Beall
Champion
Quincy
Ingersoll Rand
Check the specs, but:
5 hp gets you around 17 scfm and can run with 10 gauge wire on a 30 amp circuit.
7.5 hp gets you around 24 scfm and requires 8 gauge wire on a 40 amp circuit.
A $1000 budget should get you a nice used industrial 2-stage.

 

[CNGsaves]

If you're sandblasting a lot, and already overloading 60 gal Kobalt, then do not replace pin-hole tank with smaller tank. You actually should have MORE air volume like a 60 gal with compressor, and "buffer" tank of 20 to 30 gal out at end of airline where you do sand blasting - - - - ie the Last Drop so you have best chance at dry air.

+1 to find 60 gal oil-less on CL that has died to harvest the tank for interim fix. Just be sure Max Working Pressure of tank is appropriate for your compressor.

Your optimum compressor setup should be 2 stage and higher PSI so the compressor can stay ahead of the sand blasting. For this you really are looking at 80 gal 2 stage. Watch CL like a hawk and you might get lucky with a Quincy, Kellogg-American, Curtis, Saylor-Beall, etc. Oil-pressure lubed would be nice also.

UPDATE GJ Profile with a Location and fellow GJer's will help you scour CL.

 

[Fallon]

I've got 3 wire (120/240v) 10 gauge ran to my compressor at the moment. Upgrading to 8 gauge would be annoying, but only take an hour, maybe 2 tops if I needed (plus the cost of wire, breaker & disconnect box).

I've got a big desiccant filter on the output of my current tank that never sees any moisture. I added an after-cooler between the pump & the tank that dries things out nicely, not to mention we don't have humidity here in Colorado (pretty close to Denver) to start with. I've got 3/4" plastic/aluminum air compressor line running everywhere & 3/4" hydraulic hose connecting the compressor to the distribution system so no problems with restrictions there. My blast cabinet is right next to my compressor, which might be an issue if I had moisture issues, but that's a non-issue. I replaced the gun in my cabinet just before the tank died & I think this one will use a little less air. With my current compressor, it just won't keep up with extended usage. Extra storage might get me a few more minutes before I have to pause, but fundamentally won't help keep me going for a while.

I may replace my current tank with a smaller one just to to get things online for the moment, if I can find something for a couple bucks. But I have been thinking about upgrading the compressor even before my current one failed, so I'm not to worried about the implications of making do with a smaller tank for a little bit. I don't have much or any blasting in the near future. At any rate I'm sure I can sell off the compressor with a smaller tank for a lot more than I can sell it for at the moment while it's basically non-functional.

Are there any 60 gallon oil-less compressors out there? I only recall seeing them in the 5-30 gallon variety. All I can recall seeing larger than that have been oiled machines. So far no nibbles on my CL post trying to buy a dirt cheap toasted oil-less compressor or a tank in the past 5 days.

 

[rlitman]

Yes. I used to own a 60 gallon Craftsman oil less that ran on 240V. I was glad to have sold it.

 

[md21722]

Colorado does not have high humidity but air compressors are downrated because of the altitude by about 20%. So a 7.5HP in Colorado would act more like a 5HP in the Midwest. You might try your local air compressor shop for some options. Big air costs a lot of money. You might consider running a system with 2 air compressors plumbed together to add volume and then you also have a backup. 60 gallon Husky air compressors with blown pumps routinely show up on Craigslist along the Front Range.

 

[notlob]

Teenagers who are high shouldn't be using an air compressor. But I guess it's legal in Colorado under Amendment 64 (and likely here in CA too very soon)

 

[Fallon]

Teenagers who are high shouldn't be using an air compressor. But I guess it's legal in Colorado under Amendment 64 (and likely here in CA too very soon)

lol, true.

 

[Fallon]

Colorado does not have high humidity but air compressors are downrated because of the altitude by about 20%. So a 7.5HP in Colorado would act more like a 5HP in the Midwest. You might try your local air compressor shop for some options. Big air costs a lot of money. You might consider running a system with 2 air compressors plumbed together to add volume and then you also have a backup. 60 gallon Husky air compressors with blown pumps routinely show up on Craigslist along the Front Range.

Very familiar with our lack of oxygen up here & looking at a turbo on my next tractor to help compensate, but really hadn't though about it much in relation to an air compressor for some reason.

I don't think I need "big air", although I'm on the higher end of hobbyist use. My relatively cheap (really cheap when you consider I paid $100 for the snow blower I traded for it) Kobalt was almost enough. I try to buy quality for the long run on things like this, but realistically it's going to be getting a couple hours of use per week & maybe a really good workout for a weekend ever month or 2.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5452994863.html

Near You?

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to read 17cfm and 220V.



There's 3 or 4 good ones on Denver Craigslist depending on your budget.

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5520919574.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5503478319.html

 

[Jim Johnstone]

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5452994863.html

Near You?

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to read 17cfm and 220V.



There's 3 or 4 good ones on Denver Craigslist depending on your budget.

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5520919574.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5503478319.html

That first one is a cambell hausfeld pump. Good solid 2 stage pump.

 

[rlitman]

That first one is a cambell hausfeld pump. Good solid 2 stage pump.

It appears to be a CH pump. It actually looks almost exactly like my compressor (a CH "industrial" 7.5HP).

I would not by any means call it a "good solid" unit, but it holds its own against the Chinese competition.

On mine, the pipe between the pump and the tank failed, and was replaced by a really nice refrigerant flex pipe before I bought it. I had to repair (re-make) the intercooler pipe ends when they failed.

 

[Fallon]

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5452994863.html

Near You?

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to read 17cfm and 220V.

There's 3 or 4 good ones on Denver Craigslist depending on your budget.

http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5520919574.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5503478319.html

I have a CL search hitting on anything under $2k already, but hoping to find something under a grand. Most of those you linked have 3 phase motors, which will be several hundred to swap out for a single phase. I'm all for getting something in need of a refirb or some tinkering (one of my main uses for the compressor involves auction or CL finds for farm implements to fix up & use or flip). But if I'm getting something in need of work it needs to be noticeably better or way cheaper than what I can buy new.

If I'm looking at something in the $1-1.5k range there are a pile of ones I can get brand new that will pump out around 20cmf. Given my recent experience with loosing my tank, I don't see much value in saving a couple hundred bucks getting a used one over new. Unless I'm missing something on the quality front (which is my big concern & one of the main reasons for posting here). From what I can see a new tank is $600-800.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-80-Gal-Electric-Stationary-Air-Compressor-HV7518075/206338524 ($1,600 21cfm @175psi), similar IR, Quincy & other ones in some of the ranch stores at about the same price.

Hoping to get good guidance on what to get if I get new.

That "17hp" one does look like it has a mag starter, so is likely a real 5hp, or a 7.5hp one. Would you fork over pretty much a grand for 7.5hp unit with a name I've never heard of & unknown maintenance history over a new presumably lesser unit?

I had been eyeing thes, especially the Quincy as more inline with a good deal on a used machine.
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5495919038.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5489758225.html

 

[Jim Johnstone]

It appears to be a CH pump. It actually looks almost exactly like my compressor (a CH "industrial" 7.5HP).

I would not by any means call it a "good solid" unit, but it holds its own against the Chinese competition.

On mine, the pipe between the pump and the tank failed, and was replaced by a really nice refrigerant flex pipe before I bought it. I had to repair (re-make) the intercooler pipe ends when they failed.

I think they are pretty solid pumps. Their biggest downfall is the reed valves rather than disc valves. Otherwise they use big roller bearings for the crank mains, rollers on the wrist pin, and the bodies are heavy cast iron. Overall a good pump.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

I have a CL search hitting on anything under $2k already, but hoping to find something under a grand. Most of those you linked have 3 phase motors, which will be several hundred to swap out for a single phase. I'm all for getting something in need of a refirb or some tinkering (one of my main uses for the compressor involves auction or CL finds for farm implements to fix up & use or flip). But if I'm getting something in need of work it needs to be noticeably better or way cheaper than what I can buy new.

If I'm looking at something in the $1-1.5k range there are a pile of ones I can get brand new that will pump out around 20cmf. Given my recent experience with loosing my tank, I don't see much value in saving a couple hundred bucks getting a used one over new. Unless I'm missing something on the quality front (which is my big concern & one of the main reasons for posting here). From what I can see a new tank is $600-800.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-80-Gal-Electric-Stationary-Air-Compressor-HV7518075/206338524 ($1,600 21cfm @175psi), similar IR, Quincy & other ones in some of the ranch stores at about the same price.

Hoping to get good guidance on what to get if I get new.

That "17hp" one does look like it has a mag starter, so is likely a real 5hp, or a 7.5hp one. Would you fork over pretty much a grand for 7.5hp unit with a name I've never heard of & unknown maintenance history over a new presumably lesser unit?

I had been eyeing thes, especially the Quincy as more inline with a good deal on a used machine.
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5495919038.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5489758225.html

The name on the tank is irrelevant really. All of those house brand units use pumps and motors from someone else. That CH pump looks to have been fairly lightly used considering the tag is still on the dipstick, but if you had bad luck with that pump, there's no reason to buy another I guess.

I wouldn't touch either of those used units you linked to with a 10ft pole. Both look beat to hell, which is ok if you are looking for a project.

The orange one is a DeVilbiss, either a 230 (single stage) or a 330 (two stage) and is likely to be close on 50 years old by now. The crankcase and block are one casting, so if the bores are shot, the whole pump is junk without some expensive machine work. The green one is not a Quincy, it is a Chinese Saylor Beall knockoff used by many different companies to build private label compressors. It is the same pump on the compressor in the second link I posted.

That one you linked to from Home Depot is using a Chinese compressor that a lot of companies are using, including Curtis. To me, it looks a lot like an old Webster Model 81 and 66 with reed valve heads. I think it may be built by LaPlante compressors (Hong Kong), since Princess auto sells them here in Canada as bare pumps, and as packaged units. LaPlante also makes the Saylor Beall knockoff pumps. They used to make Kellogg knockoffs, but I think they went whole hog and brought the Kellogg name back and sell them as Kelloggs outright.

 

[IsaacJ]

I also went through this ordeal, I ended up buying a 5hp quincy. Buy once cry once. The delivery guy was kind of a ****, but the compressor is awesome, no complaints whatsoever. All made in USA, 100% duty cycle, I just wish I had more time to use it!

 

[roblouvasz]

I just started a thread about looking for a new compressor. I'm replacing a 10 year old Ingersol Rand 5hp 80gal. I'm looking at either a Saylor Beall or a Champion. I would NOT buy another IR especially from a farm store like Tracor Supply etc., you'll regret it. If you are going to be using it quite often, I would recommend a pressure lubed model. They're more expensive but can take the punishment. You definitely need a magnetic starter on anything 5hp or larger. The one I bought ten years ago didn't have one and that's the reason the motor died after just two years. I got another motor through Grainger and also installed a mag starter on it. That one lasted 8 years. I also had some pump issues with the IR. I'm biting the bullet and going for a pro unit. I figure on spending 2500-3000. I'm going to fix the IR and keep it for a back up.

 

[mbret2004]

My Quincy 7.5 horsepower, 80 gallon has worked awesome in my home shop. Annual oil changes, condensation drained each night, and it just "thumps on."

I bought it back in 2001 and it hasn't costed me a penny, except for oil changes. Highly recommend the brand.

 

[sammons]

I went through this same situation a few years ago and read up on every site I could find. any and all compressors I was interest in, I couldn't afford, so I searched the net for months before finding this beauty. It didn't really need much, just valves cleaned, but I went through the entire pump. Hopefully my kids and grandkids can will be using this thing. got less than 1500 bucks in this set up.

I have since found 5 Quincys of different years makes and bought them cheap.(one 325 model for 10 dollars) rebuilds are not terribly expensive if cranks/ cylinders are good.

this is my 2cents. you'll find one if you start looking.

 

[Fallon]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200350475_200350475 looks to be more or less the same as what I have now, some more PSI, but the same CFM. Is that type of system going to be the same big box quality or something along the lines of the Quincy reputation? The next bump after that is $700 more for 2 more CFM

 

[md21722]

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200350475_200350475 looks to be more or less the same as what I have now, some more PSI, but the same CFM. Is that type of system going to be the same big box quality or something along the lines of the Quincy reputation? The next bump after that is $700 more for 2 more CFM

Quincy's legendary reputation is built on the QR series pumps which are more than $2500 or $3000. The QT-54 is a lower end Quincy that turns the pump fast. The better Quincy's are not V pumps. Look at the QT-5 or QT-7.5. Champion makes reed valve pumps and disc valve pumps. Pretty much everything Saylor Beall sells is top of the line. Look at tptools.com for some ideas. They make blasting cabinets and sell compressors. For your use any of them may last a lifetime.

I really don't think an extra 2 CFM is going to make a big difference.

For our altitude and your requirement I would look at something like the QT-7.5.

Very few people say they bought too big of an air compressor.

 

[CNGsaves]

I have a CL search hitting on anything under $2k already, but hoping to find something under a grand. Most of those you linked have 3 phase motors, which will be several hundred to swap out for a single phase. I'm all for getting something in need of a refirb or some tinkering (one of my main uses for the compressor involves auction or CL finds for farm implements to fix up & use or flip). But if I'm getting something in need of work it needs to be noticeably better or way cheaper than what I can buy new.

If I'm looking at something in the $1-1.5k range there are a pile of ones I can get brand new that will pump out around 20cmf. Given my recent experience with loosing my tank, I don't see much value in saving a couple hundred bucks getting a used one over new. Unless I'm missing something on the quality front (which is my big concern & one of the main reasons for posting here). From what I can see a new tank is $600-800.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-80-Gal-Electric-Stationary-Air-Compressor-HV7518075/206338524 ($1,600 21cfm @175psi), similar IR, Quincy & other ones in some of the ranch stores at about the same price.

Hoping to get good guidance on what to get if I get new.

That "17hp" one does look like it has a mag starter, so is likely a real 5hp, or a 7.5hp one. Would you fork over pretty much a grand for 7.5hp unit with a name I've never heard of & unknown maintenance history over a new presumably lesser unit?

I had been eyeing thes, especially the Quincy as more inline with a good deal on a used machine.
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5495919038.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/5489758225.html

^ ^ That last CL listing . . . . xxxx8225 . . . . says it's a Quincy but it is NOT.
Instead that is a Saylor-Beall . . . . just like this one of GJer . . . RabRods.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197750

Since they don't know the difference between Quincy and Saylor-Beall . . .
. . . . I tend to not believe the story about "borrowing a part" . . . ie coil . . . .
to get another compressor running in the shop. Also the copper outflow pipe to tank is pretty discolored like it's been ran hot.

Even with those issues, these could be "bargaining chips" to beat down the price further than $900 like maybe $600 or $700 which would give you wiggle room to pay for any parts it may need. That Saylor-Beall would be a Lifetime compressor once up and running.

 

[Fallon]

^ ^ That last CL listing . . . . xxxx8225 . . . . says it's a Quincy but it is NOT.
Instead that is a Saylor-Beall . . . . just like this one of GJer . . . RabRods.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197750

Since they don't know the difference between Quincy and Saylor-Beall . . .
. . . . I tend to not believe the story about "borrowing a part" . . . ie coil . . . .
to get another compressor running in the shop. Also the copper outflow pipe to tank is pretty discolored like it's been ran hot.

Even with those issues, these could be "bargaining chips" to beat down the price further than $900 like maybe $600 or $700 which would give you wiggle room to pay for any parts it may need. That Saylor-Beall would be a Lifetime compressor once up and running.

Excellent, that's the kind of info I was hoping to get from the brain trust. If that is the pump you think it is (model number matches RabRods photos) it definitely sounds like it would be worth restoring. Lifetime pump after a rebuild, tank that hopefully lasts a few years & probably a new motor.

Should I be able to rotate the flywheel by hand with the belts off & no pressure in the tank? Assuming that would be a good check for seeing if anything major is wrong with the pump.

Will see if I can get it cheap enough to fit my budget at the moment or keep looking if I can't.

 

[md21722]

You should be able to turn the pump by hand with the belts on & pressure in the tank. The reason is that the discharge line between the tank & pump should be empty once the motor stops. This allows load free starting. If that doesn't happen, then the check valve or pump unloader mechanism, or both, don't work. Make sure it has an air filter. I like to remove the discharge line entirely and check it for excess build up. If the pump is using oil it will fill up that line.

 

[Fallon]

Well ****, I'm $500 poorer (and counting).

At least one fitting on the tank was knocked off. As expected it's missing a capacitor on the motor. The black on the discharge line appears to be an oil residue not heat damage. It looks like it was leaking a bit of oil & I couldn't see any oil in the site glass. Motor & pump turned over by hand easily. Some chattering gurgeling noises from the pump makes me assume a valve job is in my future, not that I wasn't expecting & planning on that anyway.

The immidiate plan will be pulling the pump & motor off the tank. Then I'll sort out those fittings & install the pump & motor off my old compressor. Will get me air for now. Motor will go off to a motor shop for a rebuild & I'll start digging into the pump to do a rebuild it.

I put an aftercooler on the old compressor. Any reason not to leave it off when I reassemble the old compressor on the newish tank? I'll put it on the Saylor Beal when I'm done.

What would you guys recomend for piping? On my previous one I used hydraulic hose. While only rated to 180 degrees or so, the fact it's also rated to 3,000psi eliminates most concerns. The only one I'd be concerned aobut is the hose going from the head to the aftercooler anyway. The aftercooler is room temperature by half way across.

Eventually I plan on getting a new 60-80 gallon vertical tank to mount the Saylor Beal on. Once it's running I'll sell off the old franken compressor (Kobalt & 200 gallon horizontal tank). Need to go re-read those 705 rebuild threads again.

 

[MacMcMacmac]

Make sure it's a real Saylor Beall before you start buying parts.

Saylor Beall:

Sanborn SC23:

Eaton Compressor:

Etc:

Looks like the Saylor Beall is the only one that actually has Saylor Beall written on the side.

The chuffing/gurgling sound is normal. Once you put the compressor to work, put a pressure gauge in the intercooler and see if it's steady around 30-40 psi. If it's jumping all over the place, suspect bad LP valves. If it reads the same as discharge pressure once you get past this range, suspect bad HP valves.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Make sure it's a real Saylor Beall before you start buying parts.

Saylor Beall:

Sanborn SC23:

Eaton Compressor:

Etc:

Looks like the Saylor Beall is the only one that actually has Saylor Beall written on the side.

The chuffing/gurgling sound is normal. Once you put the compressor to work, put a pressure gauge in the intercooler and see if it's steady around 30-40 psi. If it's jumping all over the place, suspect bad LP valves. If it reads the same as discharge pressure once you get past this range, suspect bad HP valves.

Good point. Our shop compressor at work is a Saylor beall clone as well. It's amazing how many of them are out there.

 

[Fallon]

At any rate the tank had a date stamp of '74 on it. Paint on the tank & pump match & look to be original. Didn't find a Saylor Beall on the pump, but the cast part numbers I saw matched Saylor Beall.

When did the clones start getting made?

Given the oil leaks, I'm pretty sure I'll be rebuilding it & putting on new seals. Will probably just do the valves at that point without bothering with the tests you noted.

 

[md21722]

Valves should be cheap, but keep an eye on the oil. Valves don't leak oil, the rings do. You'll know more once you take that discharge line off. A good pump will have a light carbon layer. A pump that is trashed will have a heavy buildup inside that line. I'm not sure when the clones started to show up. If the tank doesn't have much rust in the water when you drain it & it drains well I would not worry about the year. I have an old Beaird tank from '55 that is 3/16" thick caps and main section. All I've ever ever gotten out of it clear water. I use it almost daily. If you don't want thank 200 gallon tank for any reason PM me, I may be interested - just down the road from you.

 

[Fallon]

Well, while moving it, the compressor rolled up against the guard on my pallet forks. The 6" oil drain pipe snapped & there was a decent amount of oil that drained out.

No Saylor Beall stamped on the crank case like I've seen in other photos, so probably a clone rather than the real thing. Oh well, should still be a pretty good machine for me once I rebuild it.

 

[Jim Johnstone]

Well, while moving it, the compressor rolled up against the guard on my pallet forks. The 6" oil drain pipe snapped & there was a decent amount of oil that drained out.

No Saylor Beall stamped on the crank case like I've seen in other photos, so probably a clone rather than the real thing. Oh well, should still be a pretty good machine for me once I rebuild it.

I imagine it will be a good machine. Like I said my boss uses a Chinese made clone as our shop compressor in a machine shop. It runs and runs and runs and so far has been very reliable.