Roof Fall Protection Question

[mslisaj]

My shop roof has a 14' eve with probably a 20' peak and 80' in length. I certainly don't want to fall off this roof as I would never survive enough to retire. At any rate it's a metal roof with wood perlins and trusses for support. I believe I want to run a static line across the top of the eve that I could clip off too with a harness just in case I slipped up there. Do you gentlemen have any thoughts or advice on this. I want to do something that is permanent and professional. I have surfed the net and got a lot of idea's but I wonder what you guys think or use. I'm sure some may be in this type of business and are used to harnesses and tie offs. The harness I already have but I need something to tie it too that will not only protect me but anyone that I may hire to go up there.

Thank you gentlemen for your thoughts and idea's............

Lisa


At the end of the second page I have a full write up of what I finally ended up doing to solve this problem. Thanks to all the good ideas expressed I believe I came up with a good and safe solution. Additional comments are always welcome.

At the end of the third page is the final write up and the final set of pictures with the cable in place and being used. As usual comments are welcome.....

 

[betterbillt]

I guess My first question is why do you need on the roof? I usually use roof jacks attached to the roof with a piece of rubber under them. I like to use longer roofing screws to attach the brackets.

 

[Mstrfxit12]

I dont have much experience on that type of roof setup but have some experience with Body harness' and decel devices. Make sure your connection points are no less than 18 feet off the ground or the system will not be effective in protecting in the event of a fall. Just to explain that a little
Decel device is 6' typically
Stretches 42" or so on expansion from fall
Person 6 feet tall
So anchor point to feet is 16-17 feet.

 

[nehog]

What is the pitch of the roof. If 1:12 or 2:12 it won't be too bad. My 2:12 metal roof is easily walked on as long as it is not slippery.

I have ice blockers on the eves so snow/ice won't slide off the roof and hit anyone, and that is a good thing for working up there too as if you were to slide you'd hit them and that would typically stop you (assuming the pitch was not too great.)

 

[Ironcrow]

I replaced the ridge flashing with 3/16 welded steel, bolted it through to the ridge beam with 3/4 x 12 in lag screws on 6 foot centers, and put 3/4 inch shank eyebolts along the ridge about 10 feet apart.

 

[mslisaj]

Some great idea's gentlemen.
First the reason I have to get on the roof is occasionally there is a leak. Also I have a coal stove and I clean the chimney every two years. Then I have a weather station transmitter up there that the batteries have to be changed. So I have to get up there occasionally and I want to do it safely.

Great idea Ironcrow about the 3/16 ridge cap. I have 80 feet of cap and that may be a little too much. But I could do that with maybe short pieces of welded ridge cap bolted into the beams. Then I could do the eye bolts. That could work very well I think............

Good point too about the decel devices. I have a 14' eve so that if I fell with a tight harness off the edge and in your example the harness and decel is about 9' long that only gives me a five foot clearance. I'm 69"s tall so I probably would hit the ground but I wouldn't crash full body against the asphalt. At the very least it would be survivable with some broken bones but I would live to do it another day. But I would keep my self tied pretty close as I was lowering my self to the edge.

On the pitch I would guess it's about a 6:12. I walk on it pretty easily with caution but it's the big if I slipped. I just don't want to get hurt or killed so I want every caution. If it cost me $1000 to put a good static cable across the top to clip onto I'm thinking that is cheap insurance.

All comments appreciated and thanks for what you guys have put down now.

Lisa

 

[Orangestang]

If you feel unsafe being up there then by all means do it.Don't concern yourself with what we might think. I would feel bad if I read that you fell and hurt yourself. In a situation like this money is no object.We want you here.

 

[hackster]

We do a lot of work on commercial buildings and fall protection is a necessary evil.

I agree with the prious posters suggestion about the deceleration devises and the calculations are about right.

What you really need to determine is whether you are planning on falling off the roof or not?

If you are planning on falling off of the roof and trying to prevent yourself from impacting the ground, keep in mind that your anchor point needs to be rated for 5000#. This means something that you would be comfortable hanging your truck from.

Fall Prevention is what I would do.What I would recommend is an anchor point at the peak of your roof and a lanyard that will not allow you to fall from the roof in the first place.

If you figure out the distance from the peak of your roof to the edge you can get a lanyard made and only run the anchor line in the middle of the roof so that you can just reach the end of the peak of the roof, this would be the safest method and the least amount of calcualtion involved for keeping you from falling from the roof.

Good luck and et us know what you come up with.

Sean

 

[sarman47]

Fall Arrest........ Someone trained or take the training yourself. Of course you will need to invest in some equipment. Safety First..........

 

[RBailey]

What ever you do make sure it will last. You don't want to develope a false sense of safety in anchor points that have detrioated.

 

[nehog]

...

On the pitch I would guess it's about a 6:12. I walk on it pretty easily with caution but it's the big if I slipped. I just don't want to get hurt or killed so I want every caution. If it cost me $1000 to put a good static cable across the top to clip onto I'm thinking that is cheap insurance.
...

OK that's a pretty steep pitch for metal roof walking! What I did one time was a few eye bolts through structural pieces under the roof. Then a rope (one that is both UV stable and weathers well, marine grade is good) left down the roof. (Was a chimney that had to be cleaned two to three times per season, a wood stove.) Basically tie off as soon as on the roof. It did not give me 100 % coverage, however, because it had discrete tie off points.

One problem with a line that just stretches across the ridge is that you have to have either supports every few feet, or it will 'sag' when pulled on the middle. Also, say you have an 80 ft line, when you apply 200 lb of force in the middle, there are substantial loads at the two end points. When I say substantial, we're talking thousands of lb of force. The middle would also sag, but basically the two end points would have to be very strong to hold and not either pull out or break. (this effect can easily be demonstrated by tying a long rope to a car to a tree. Then by pressing or pushing on the center of the rope it is easy to move the car!)

So make sure whatever you do is strong enough. Standard hardware eye bolts probably won't be satisfactory.

 

[Ironcrow]

Mine is 6/12 pitch and metal. Slipping off is a real possibility. One corner is almost 30 feet exposure down to rocks. Don't want to fall there. Ridge is 40 feet long.

 

[Bill Crowell]

When I built my roof, I used a climber's belt and a rope that was attached to the trunk of a tree on the opposite side of the building from the side on which I was working. I had two such ropes, one attached on each side. When transferring from the ladder to the roof and when going back down the ladder, I would grab the rope coming from the opposite side of the building from that I was climbing, use that rope to get to the peak of the roof, and then transfer to the other rope before working on the other side.

 

[mslisaj]

Some fantastic idea's gentlemen. I sincerely appreciate it. First of all I'm not afraid to get on the roof but as I get older the less I want to fall and the more safety conscious I get. For many years I did a lot of rock climbing with a belay line and I have experienced quite a few falls and bounces at the end of a line. Great point too about falling off the roof or just preventing myself from sliding off the edge. I am planning on keeping my self ON the roof. I have been on this website:

http://www.heightsafety.com.au/pages/height-safety-staticline.html

Looking at static lines and how to set them up. If I go that route I would be running a 3/8 cable the length of the shop at the peak with of course the two end anchors with center supports about every 15'. I have been doing a lot of studying on this and I just want to be safe. As Orangestang put it you guys don't want to be reading that I had an accident. That is why I'm here talking to you pro's. Some great suggestions coming across here but then again I expect nothing less.................

Thanks...........

Lisa

 

[Stuart in MN]

In addition to lines and harnesses, it may be a good idea to bring a rubber mat so you have something non-skid to stand on when you get there.

In a similar vein, the roofing crews around here all have old foam couch cushions they use when they're on roofs - it provides non-skid padding for when they're kneeling or sitting. When the cushions finally wear out they just go find some more in the trash somewhere.

 

[ludakris04]

when ever I have to venture up on my roof.. I him and haw over it.. then I get out the check book. I'm a wuss when it comes to the roof.

 

[mslisaj]

Interesting idea.......................

On paying for some of the "roof work" to be done. Well it always seems to come back to me to go and correct, finish or just get the job done right. I know there are skilled craftsmen around but I seem to hire duds as I always have to go finish. Yes I do used licensed contractors to do this work. What prompted me on this one thread was two weeks ago I had to fix a little hole left in the roof and poorly repaired by the expensive contractor that put the addition on my shop. Guys are just in too much of a hurry these days it seems and the old saying goes if you want something done right you have to do it your self................

Now the rubber mat and old cushions sound like a great idea too. At this rate if I can use all these wonderful suggestions I will be an expert soon.....

Thank you ..............

Lisa

 

[GarageEnvy]

Funny this topic would come up. I just got back from the hospital. I was visiting my wife's cousin who fell off of a roof last week. He fell off of the roof of a 2-story building which was probably 30'+. He shattered both feet, crushed two vertebrae and then fell backward and split his head open. I am now totally rethinking the need to be on roofs. In the past, I never gave it a second thought. But after hearing him tell how it happened in an instant, I might just leave it to someone else. Our cabin has a metal roof with a 12/12 pitch and a nasty hillside fall with rocks. We have a ladder that hooks over the ridge and I've usually thrown a rope over the other side of the cabin and anchored to a tree. I doubt it would pass the OSHA test but it would have stopped me from hitting the ground.

 

[jdub63]

We use these on aircraft wings, I'm not sure the diameter would fit on a metal roof.

http://www.fall-arrest.com/fall-arrest-systems/aircraft/wingrip.asp

 

[rwhite692]

That is a steep pitched roof.

A chimney sweep visit will cost you, what, $100-$150 every couple of years, and getting the roof leaks fixed should be a one time deal.

If you are not comfortable working up there, then, you shouldn't be up there.

Hire a roof repair guy (once and it's done) and a chimney sweep (every two years).

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I have a steel building with a steel roof. It is 2/12 so no issue to walk on, though I try to stay on the purlins. Issue I had was getting up there, 16 ft eave, but I drive my 19 ft scissor lift out on the concrete on one of the gable ends, near the eave and it gets me up there just fine.

I had a number of leaks show up where the contractor missed the purlin with screws and just puttied it over and left it. Now the putty has dried and washed away and it leaks. I've been up there twice, fall a year ago, and this fall, to locate and remove such screws, clean the area and use silicone II in a caulk tube to plug the hole and make a mound that would stick. Leaks gone for now.

Charles

 

[fromnwmt]

I am sitting in a chair healing from a broken pelvis and two broken vertebrae after falling THRU a metal roof on the pole shed we were installing the roof on, I can tell you it does not have to be steep I had ONE second of ignorance and BAM i woke up on the ground I stepped on a unsecured piece of tin sure would have been nice to be secured somehow rather then falling 18ft interesting side note there was 3 other men in the hospital the same weekend as me all from falling from ladders and roofs....

 

[mslisaj]

Great point Fromnwmt. Again its not a matter of "not being comfortable " getting on the roof, its more about doing it safely. OSHA has rules on this because professionals that work at heights fall off too. I actually like getting up there I just want to be safer doing it.

Lisa

 

[betterbillt]

I still like using roof jacks on any steel roof I work on. I feel very safe using them. Ropes and what not are nice but aren't realistic. If and when I use a rope, I remove the section of ridge cap where I'm working and anchor to the trusses. If you do this, you need to be sure the metal is not rubbing the rope.

I reread why you need up there and I have an idea. I have a customer that was scared to death that the fire dept couldn't get to his chiminey. We Used snow stops the whole way to the chiminey. It works great. I even made angled peices of white oak that I can set above the snow stops that work just like a ladder. If you really had no budget I'd think perminate roof ladders. They can be made to fit any roof. A cheaper way is to talk to a local metal shop. You could even use a standard ladder if you had brackets made to hold it up off the ribs. I would use a peice of rubber below the brackets.

View media item 13840

 

[TravisT]

I was thinking a roof ladder would be a possible option to make it a little safer. Then I read betterbillt's post, and maybe a permenantly installed roof ladder could work even better. Granted, if there were leaks, it may not get you where you need to go, but for your routine maintenance it may just fit the bill.

Otherwise, maybe look into a roof ladder:

http://www.duosafety.com/roof.html

Not sure of a good source or pricing, but I do know that if it says NFPA on it, you will pay for it!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Any "safety" equipment lagged into wood is asking for a failure. Even thru bolting without proper backing (more than a washer) could fail especially if water starts to rot the wood.

 

[Ironcrow]

Any "safety" equipment lagged into wood is asking for a failure. Even thru bolting without proper backing (more than a washer) could fail especially if water starts to rot the wood.

Ha ha. I guess it depends. I used 3/4 shank lag bolts that are 12 inches long. Pre-drilled the holes, of course, slathered the bolts with construction adhesive, and drove them in with an impact wrench. Each fall loop is held in by 3 of these bolts. Covered, sealed and flashed. No exposure to sun and rain. They are not, and never will be, the weak point in this system.

 

[Milton Shaw]

Rule one Never get on roof unless someone else is there. If you need the fall arrest and don't have someone to notice it and call in you will cut circulation off from legs with the harness and still do a lot of damage to yourself. It will take 911 crew to rescue you if you fall so someone needs to be there any time you are doing something on roof of climbing trees etc. A cell phone is nice protection but you may not be able to use it if you fall. A second pair of eyes and brain is absolutely necessary, don't let your wife come home to find you hanging around the garage or even under car/ lift with problems.

 

[mslisaj]

Just thought I would give you gentlemen an update on how this Roof Fall Protection project is coming along. When I start the actual installation I will be posting pictures of course. I have decided on an Engineered Life Line strung across the top of the building almost to the peak. I have done a lot of research and I have settled in with the Guardian System. I have purchased a full body safety harness with an impact absorbing lanyard that will attach to the heavy certified rope that will attach to the "Life Line". I am using three certified anchors that are attached to the perlins in the roof with metal brackets to the truss. One gentleman here mentioned that the "system has to be able to support my pickup" or 5,000# and all this gear is yellow tagged for this job and that rating. I'm setting it up mainly as a "restraint system" but with the shock absorbing systems it will also protect me if I actually go off the edge. Pictures will be coming but it's too cold and slick on the roof now to do any of this install but I have purchased all the material and just waiting for the time to get this install accomplished.

Next I focused my research on ladder safety. I read a statistic that 50% of roof falls and ladder accidents happen from the transition from the ladder to the roof and back again as you're forced to step around the ladder. Two of the issues with this is ladder "kick out" at the bottom and also the ladder sliding sideways off the roof. To prevent this I have installed in the side of my building down at the bottom a welded eye bolt that I will tie the base of the ladder to prevent the kick out. On the internet you can see many pictures and videos of men putting the bumper of their trucks or a tire against the ladder to prevent the base moving out. Another trick I saw was someone drove a stake into the ground to tie the base off to prevent the kick out. This is where I got the idea to use an eye bolt in the side of my building. I also installed an eye bolt at the top at the edge of the roof to tie the ladder too there to keep it from shifting, sliding off and falling down. This is more permanent then my vicegrips at the edged of the roof to keep the ladder from shifting.

The bottom line is I will have about $500 invested into this complete system and maybe a day or too of install time. I think any of the men that have responded here who have either fallen or knew someone that fell from a roof would have gladly have paid that to prevent their injuries. I also have a system that if I do some day hire a contractor I will have done do diligence on my part from preventing an accident on my property. Everything I have used is all engineered for this purpose and is by one manufacture to all work together.

Hope this helps and I want to thank you all for your idea's. When I get everything installed I will post pictures......

Thanks again............

Lisa

 

[chevelle64]

Any progress? Inquiring minds...

 

[willymakeit]

I didnt read all the posts,but if you use a harness, you need to know how to get out of it after a fall. You only have so much time to evacuate as they put pressure on your femoral arterties. There are devices for this also.

 

[mslisaj]

Well Gentlemen, I appreciate the inquires. Yes this project is coming along but as they say it's worthless without all the pictures and in about three weeks I will have this all completed. But here is a sample. The number that I have kept in my mind is the 5000# one that the anchors have to be able to stand. I got a copy of the OSHA rules for this and that is what I have built this too. I have secured this to the strongest part of the roof. I have taken 3/8" angle iron and bolted that to the Purlins and then used 3/8" steel straps to bolt this to the trusses of the roof. This is all secured with grade 8 1/2" bolts. To these brackets I have attached DBI/Sala proof tested D ring anchors. Each one of these anchors is tested to 5000# and are yellow tagged, serial numbered and carry inspection sign offs on the tags that are attached to each anchor. Through these D Rings I have used a 3/8" cable rated at 5200# and these are attached to my angle iron brackets with 1/2" grade 8 bolts and nuts. So this is my basic Fall Arrest/Fall Prevention system. For the Harness System I am using a Guardian Harness that is rated to 350#. I have also added the Guardian Stand Up Harness in the event I fell off the roof and was dangling off the ground that I could stand up in this harness and relieve the pressure on the femoral arteries while I wait for a ladder to get me out of the harness (situation). So I have done my home work. So this is my fall protection system.

Now getting on the roof provides it's own challenges and I have made that a whole lot safer too. I use an extension ladder to get on this roof but I have purchased the Guardian "Ladder Extensions" to go on my ladder. These allow you to walk up the ladder and right on to the roof instead of climbing around the ladder. With this I have built a bracket that is permanently mounted to the wall of my shop that has two large hooks that actually hook the top rung of the ladder and prevents side to side sliding and kick-out of the bottom of the ladder. Being this is an extension ladder and the "hooks" hold the top half of the ladder I have installed an eye bold in the side of the building and I tie off the bottom of the ladder to absolutely guarantee the ladder stays where I put it. I do have pictures of this and my roof brackets that are attached. The final pictures will be of the D rings and cable.

I appreciate all the input on this project and when it's totally completed in three weeks I will post the finished pictures too. One gentleman made the comment that the anchors have to be strong enough "to hang my pick-up off of" and I realize that my roof and trusses were not designed for a 5000# spot load. But I rationalize that I have done the best that I can with what I have to work with and the load if someone fell and the cable caught them would be spread out among the three anchors so I'm sure this will prevent the "victim" from hitting the ground. Will there possibly some damage to the structure after a fall? That is very possible but what I have put on the roof is an insurance policy and if it saves my life and limb I can certainly afford to repair what ever damage may happen to the roof.

I hope you guys approve and thanks again for the input. Finished pictures will follow..................

Lisa

P.S. The roof has a 4/12 pitch.

 

[mslisaj]

Well.......... 72VETTE454,

No comment????

Lisa

 

[chevelle64]

Yeah sorry, I was waiting for the finished product. It looks very well thought out and I believe it will definitely be strong enough, although hopefully you never have to find out. I am interested in seeing the harness and attaching hardware. I am looking into doing this on my two story house roof, so I may have to attach it differently. I didn't know about the issue with pressure on the femoral arteries in the event of a fall and dangle, there's always something to learn. Thanks for the write up and updates.

 

[mslisaj]

Well Mr. 72VETTE454, I appreciate your comments and I'll be home in two weeks and will finish this then and I'll post the pictures of the top anchors and cable when I finish it. I'll also take a picture of the harness and all the attaching gear and fall protection system with the harness. Here is a link to the D-Rings that I used. These are pretty simple and are well made. Certified too.

I'll be patient for your next response. Yes, I never want to test it all but it's nice to know it's there and it's more of a fall prevention system, but heaven forbid I did slip off the edge I have a certified Arrest system to come into play then.

Lisa

http://www.gravitec.com/equipment/anchors/dbi-sala-d-ring-with-anchorage-plate/anc-ds-0210163/

 

[usdemt]

Personally I like to attach a rope to the peak of the roof, then use a prusik knot to attach my harness to the main line. I call it fall prevention, rather than fall protection. I constantly move the prusik up and down the main line so I never have a lot of slack, and when working at the edge I have inches if I were to actually fall.

 

[timewarp]

One thing that I would do (I was trained to do this as standard practice when using an extension ladder) is that after you have the ladder extended to the height that you need it before climbing the ladder use the rope that you extend the ladder with to tie the top and bottom sections of the ladder together, I was trained to do this by having the rope continue down the back of the ladder and under a lower rung on the bottom section of the ladder and then taking the end up the front side of the ladder and wrapping it around the bottom rung of the fly section and the corresponding rung of the bottom section three or four times then tieing some half hitches around the rope in the front and the back of the ladder just above the rungs you wrapped, it does mean that the rope is running up the middle of the ladder but once you are used to that it won't be a problem. That way when you hang your ladder off your hooks there would be no way the bottom could slide out even if you didn't tie it off to your eyebolt. I hope you can understand my description of how to do this, it's easier done than explained.

 

[mslisaj]

Personally I like to attach a rope to the peak of the roof, then use a prusik knot to attach my harness to the main line. I call it fall prevention, rather than fall protection. I constantly move the prusik up and down the main line so I never have a lot of slack, and when working at the edge I have inches if I were to actually fall.

I'm definitely in the fall prevention camp. The harness "Kit" that I purchased contained the Arresting strap to break the fall if I went over the edge. No way do I want to test this system out. I just took the idea to the OSHA end with certified attachments and use a permanent cable across the top of the shop instead of a rope. I appreciate the fact that I'm not alone in this thinking about fall prevention.

Thanks for your comment Usdemt............

Lisa

 

[Toomanytools?]

Think I would have gone with what Rwhite said: Fix the leak, hire a sweep ever other year, look into a solar charger for the weather system. That said looks like you have things covered. "I'm not afraid on falling, it's the landing that worries me!"
Good Luck

 

[Hawk]

Made 25 jumps out of airplanes, never had any injuries from the fall. Though I did damage a bone and a few joints on a couple of landings. lol

Sounds like you have a very well thought out system.