Saylor-Beall Rebuild

[jonathan75]

Fair enough, well keep up the great work sir, it is going to be a beautiful beast of a compressor... Also look and see if you can find a Dayton motor, they are great quality motors (believe they are USA made) and a little less known so you might find a better deal then a balder.

Thanks, I will look for Dayton also.

The leak detector is just soapy fluid of some type. I found online recipes for soapy water and glycerin, a whole bottle of dawn soap in water, etc. I tried soapy water and could not find the leak. I bought this when Ibought the PTFE tape and found some of the leaks. Not sure how I messed up soapy water. I replaced the check valve b/c the tank was still draining but not making bubbles anywhere I could find. The tank now holds pressure after replacing the check valve. I had already soap and retaped every joint.
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Oatey-8-oz-All-Purpose-Leak-Detector-302092/100151681/

Thanks for the link, I may pick up some leak detector if it makes it any easier. Ken at Air-Flo said Saylor Beall does not have the repair kit for my old model of check valve anymore so I will buy a aftermarket one from him. I want to get as much from one supplier as possible. Not only that but Air-Flo has been great with communication and help and offers competitive prices.

 

[Zrexxer]

Also look and see if you can find a Dayton motor, they are great quality motors (believe they are USA made)

Dayton is just a private label for Grainger. The motors branded as Daytons could be from various manufacturers and possibly different COOs.

 

[jonathan75]

I gave up on trying to remove the end caps. The only thing I could do was chip it away so I stopped before I did more damage. I just flushed it from the top and out the bottom and side. The bottom drain was coming out very slow so I removed the connection and shutoff. Turned out it was a little constipated. After I removed the connection the water came poring out after one poke. The water ran rust colored for a while and then clear.

I also measured the sight glass because it is cracked. Ken at Air-Flo found me a nice one made of metal and real glass! The factory sight glass is plastic which does not make sense when everything else is so high quality.

 

[jonathan75]

Dayton is just a private label for Grainger. The motors branded as Daytons could be from various manufacturers and possibly different COOs.

Thank you for the insight. That is a scary proposition. You never know what you may get!

 

[jonathan75]

On Sunday I gave the tank one more cleaning with car cleaner. I would of waxed it also if I was not going to repaint it. Now it is ready for some light sanding, priming and painting.

 

[Zrexxer]

Thank you for the insight. That is a scary proposition. You never know what you may get!

I just looked on Grainger's website, and their Dayton single-phase definite-purpose air compressor motors all now list COO as China. Older ones may be US made.

 

[Zrexxer]

On Sunday I gave the tank one more cleaning with car cleaner. I would of waxed it also if I was not going to repaint it. Now it is ready for some light sanding, priming and painting.

Honestly I know what you said about the tank, but aside from a couple of scrapes, that thing looks good to go. I'd sure think twice about the time and expense of repainting it... at least until you've got everything functioning 100%...

 

[metal4130]

My Baldor motor is made in the USA. A typical 7.5hp motor pulls 31 full load amps and requires a 40 amp 8 gauge feed.

 

[jonathan75]

Honestly I know what you said about the tank, but aside from a couple of scrapes, that thing looks good to go. I'd sure think twice about the time and expense of repainting it... at least until you've got everything functioning 100%...

I probably should wait. I am waiting to buy the motor until can check that the pump is working by hand somewhat.

My Baldor motor is made in the USA. A typical 7.5hp motor pulls 31 full load amps and requires a 40 amp 8 gauge feed.

I will need to run a new line probably. It is 10 gauge now I think and 30 amp breakers.

 

[jonathan75]

I was trying to verify tonight that a 1 NPT sight glass would work for me. The test 1 NPT ****** will only go in about a 1/2" because of the taper on the thread. If the new sight glass is not tapered or need to go in more then a 1/2" I should be okay.

There is also a gasket on the old sight glass but I hope the new sight glass comes with one or it will be in my rebuild kit.

 

[930dreamer]

Keep up the good work.

 

[jonathan75]

Keep up the good work.

Thank you. I should be cleaning valves in the garage right now but I am too tired to work on it tonight. I changed the valves in the cleaning bucket and will let it do the hard work for me.

Here is a picture of the sight glass I will get. This sight glass is actually made of glass and metal and not plastic! It is made for rotary screw compressors and is pressure rated for up to 300 PSI.

 

[Zrexxer]

I was trying to verify tonight that a 1 NPT sight glass would work for me. The test 1 NPT ****** will only go in about a 1/2" because of the taper on the thread. If the new sight glass is not tapered or need to go in more then a 1/2" I should be okay.

There is also a gasket on the old sight glass but I hope the new sight glass comes with one or it will be in my rebuild kit.

If the threads in the crankcase are NPT, then they're going to be tapered. Tapered threads don't rely on a gasket to seal. Assuming that your new sight glass is NPT also, you will apply a thread sealant and tighten it to an interference fit. The taper in conjunction with the pipe sealant is what creates a leak-proof seal.

 

[jonathan75]

If the threads in the crankcase are NPT, then they're going to be tapered. Tapered threads don't rely on a gasket to seal. Assuming that your new sight glass is NPT also, you will apply a thread sealant and tighten it to an interference fit. The taper in conjunction with the pipe sealant is what creates a leak-proof seal.

I just hope it will go in flush before the interference fit interferes.

 

[jonathan75]

I got some parts in to help with the pump rebuild. And the rest of the parts I just ordered from Ken at Air-Flo today.

Today I got in a Piston Ring Installer, Ring Compressor and Assembly Lube.

Is there anyone with angle grinding experience that can offer some advice? The machine shop welded for free my broken motor belt cover that was cracked. But when they welded it was very ugly and large weld that interferes with the two parts of the cover from coming together. So it may be time to buy a grinder to smooth it out. What kind of grinding wheel or flap disc should I get to smooth out a weld? And what kind of attachment would be good to remove the old paint from the wire grate cover?

Here is a link to the angle grinder I am thinking about.

http://amzn.com/B000BM6BMI

 

[mrpizza]

Get the $9.99 harbor freight grinder. I have one that has been through utter hell and still works. I've had smoke billowing out of it several times. Can't beat it for the price. And use a flap disc, say 80-120 grit to smooth the weld.

 

[nine4gmc]

agreed^

 

[jonathan75]

Get the $9.99 harbor freight grinder. I have one that has been through utter hell and still works. I've had smoke billowing out of it several times. Can't beat it for the price. And use a flap disc, say 80-120 grit to smooth the weld.

What about the attachment for removing the old peeling paint from the metal grate on the belt cover. It looks like this.

 

[Zrexxer]

I just hope it will go in flush before the interference fit interferes.

Well, it probably won't, and ultimately it doesn't matter if it does. What would be bad is if it bottoms out flush before the threads seal.

 

[mrpizza]

I would use a wire brush on a drill for that metal grate. Spray it with aircraft stripper, pressure wash it off, then get the straggly bits of paint with the brush.

 

[9GUY9]

Look at the bottom of the cylinders. Mine were tapered and did not require a piston ring compressor. You have to install the high pressure piston in the cylinder before you mount it on the block. The rod end is larger than the piston bore. Ask me how I learned that one Regardless that ring compressor won't go small enough to work on the hp piston.

You don't need the piston ring pliers. I bought that same one before I built my first engine. I used it on the first piston and that was it. Many engine builds later I have never wanted it. Its much easier to just use your fingers.

 

[D.J.]

If it was me I wouldn't go to the trouble of sanding , priming, and painting, I'd just use it as is maybe touch up the scratches with touch up paint! But it is your tank! Nice build by the way.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Yeah, be super careful with the ring compressor. When I rebuilt the IR 2 stage pump prior to the Champion, the con rods did not allow enough space for the piston ring compressor to get between the jugs and the bottom of the block. On the IR, I am not sure that you could go through the top because you would not be able to bolt the connecting rod together. I ended up fitting the pistons one ring at a time into the jugs after they were bolted and torqued to the crank. . Hopefully yours is a little easier to work with, but you may not want to take the spring compressors out of the package yet!

 

[Zrexxer]

the con rods did not allow enough space for the piston ring compressor to get between the jugs and the bottom of the block.

If you do need a ring compressor. there's another style that uses a much narrower band:

 

[jonathan75]

Get the $9.99 harbor freight grinder. I have one that has been through utter hell and still works. I've had smoke billowing out of it several times. Can't beat it for the price. And use a flap disc, say 80-120 grit to smooth the weld.

agreed^

There is no smoking allowed in my garage so I ordered the DeWalt. My first DeWalt I got 21 years ago and it still works and the reviews were good on this model so I ordered it. I used my CC points so I didn't really have to pay anything for it.

I would use a wire brush on a drill for that metal grate. Spray it with aircraft stripper, pressure wash it off, then get the straggly bits of paint with the brush.

Thanks, I got a wire brush for it. I will try with no chemical at first though and see if most will come off easy.

Look at the bottom of the cylinders. Mine were tapered and did not require a piston ring compressor. You have to install the high pressure piston in the cylinder before you mount it on the block. The rod end is larger than the piston bore. Ask me how I learned that one Regardless that ring compressor won't go small enough to work on the hp piston.

You don't need the piston ring pliers. I bought that same one before I built my first engine. I used it on the first piston and that was it. Many engine builds later I have never wanted it. Its much easier to just use your fingers.

The piston ring compressor I got goes down to 2" so it should work okay.

Yeah, be super careful with the ring compressor. When I rebuilt the IR 2 stage pump prior to the Champion, the con rods did not allow enough space for the piston ring compressor to get between the jugs and the bottom of the block. On the IR, I am not sure that you could go through the top because you would not be able to bolt the connecting rod together. I ended up fitting the pistons one ring at a time into the jugs after they were bolted and torqued to the crank. . Hopefully yours is a little easier to work with, but you may not want to take the spring compressors out of the package yet!

I can put the pistons in the cylinder before I mount it to the dog house so there won't be any space issues.

If you do need a ring compressor. there's another style that uses a much narrower band:

I saw one like the one in the picture but the cost was higher so I passed it up.

 

[jonathan75]

Today I changed the parts in the Berryman Chem-Dip parts washing can and checked out the garage electrical for the compressor.

I confirmed what I thought and it looks like the line that was ran when my house was built will not work for me. It is only 10 gauge wire and 30 Amp breakers. Maybe I can use this run for a welder in the future if it is enough power for it.

The good news is that I can make room next to the electrical panel so it would be a very short run. The only issue I can see is that I plan to cut a hole in the wall for a window A/C unit above where the compressor will be. As long as the heat generated from the air compressor does not interfere with the A/C above it I should be okay.

 

[metal4130]

Will the mag starter you have handle a 7.5 HP single phase motor?

 

[jonathan75]

Will the mag starter you have handle a 7.5 HP single phase motor?

The one that came with it should work. But I may need to switch out the heaters. I need to make sense of the Square D chart after I pick out my motor to be sure.

For the wiring I am thinking about using 6/3 NM-B Wire and a 2 Pole 50 Amp Breaker. But I am not sure if I will use a plug or put a 60 Amp non-fuse safety switch box. The panel is right there so I don't think I need to have a switch and if I use a plug I won't need a switch by NEC I believe but I need to double check that.

 

[trbomax]

I use a plug and a switch on mine.Its a real pita to unplug all the time,I have the plugs on them because its easier if I need to pull them away from the corner for service. On the S-B the belts are back against the wall and cant even be reached from the front. On the I-R the switch and starter is on the wall and switches the plug. on the S-B the plug is just that,and the switch is on the unit.

 

[jonathan75]

Re: Should I buy this Saylor-Beall?

This comes directly from the Saylor Beall catalog. With the 7.5 HP motor and 707 pump you can spin the pump at 730 RPM which makes 31.2 CFM @ 100 PSI and 26.9 CFM @ 175 PSI.

The pump pulley is 16.75" so I bought a motor pulley (Browning 2TB68) which is 7.15 inches. Do the math and thats 736 RPM at the pump.

I found a online Pulley Calculator. My math is questionable.

http://www.blocklayer.com/pulley-belteng.aspx

 

[jonathan75]

I use a plug and a switch on mine.Its a real pita to unplug all the time,I have the plugs on them because its easier if I need to pull them away from the corner for service. On the S-B the belts are back against the wall and cant even be reached from the front. On the I-R the switch and starter is on the wall and switches the plug. on the S-B the plug is just that,and the switch is on the unit.

Right now mine is on wheels but I don't plan to keep it that way. I may just keep extra room behind it to sneak in for belt issues.

 

[W-Cummins]

The one that came with it should work. But I may need to switch out the heaters. I need to make sense of the Square D chart after I pick out my motor to be sure.

It may "work" but its not rated for a single phase 7.5 hp motor. BTW I'm not sure you will find a plug that is either, but some one may make a 50 amp motor rated plug I have never seen one.

William...

 

[jonathan75]

It may "work" but its not rated for a single phase 7.5 hp motor. BTW I'm not sure you will find a plug that is either, but some one may make a 50 amp motor rated plug I have never seen one.

William...

You can wire it for single-phase there are several wiring diagrams online depicting this.

They sell 50 amp electrical plugs. It doesn't matter what you hook to it as long as you don't go over 50 amps.

 

[trbomax]

It may "work" but its not rated for a single phase 7.5 hp motor. BTW I'm not sure you will find a plug that is either, but some one may make a 50 amp motor rated plug I have never seen one.

William...

I'm useing 2 legs of the 3phase starter that was on dads T-30 7.5 hp since around 1969. The plug on it might not be "motor rated" but its been on there since 69 as well.

 

[jonathan75]

Tonight I took a closer look at the motor pulley that came with the air compressor. I didn't get to keep the motor but I did get the pulley and belts. The pulley is too large and the RPM's would be a little too high if I use this one. I think if I can keep the RPM's lower the noise will be less and the wear and tear on the pump will be less. Also the pulley is cracked and damaged. I could try and get it fixed but since I don't want it to go over the rated speed I will just get a new one.

After work today I stopped at a motor shop near downtown on the way home. The prices on the A.O. Smith 7.5 HP was actually $100 less then the country side motor shop I went to last week. I won't have to pay any shipping since it can come in on their normal stock order but I will have to pay tax. I am going to these motor shops hoping to find a good deal on a used motor but nobody has any. Actually these guys told me I should use the 3 phase that was on it and they could sell me a converter for $400 which would be cheaper then a motor. But I don't have the original motor so it does not matter. I really did not like their attitude at this downtown shop. Also their lack of knowledge and silly questions was a little worrisome. But I might go with them if I can't find something cheaper online.

The Baldor quote from a local air compressor dealer came in at $400 dollars more then a A.O. Smith motor so I don't think I will go for that.

Tonight I also started on cleaning up the pump parts for painting. I should get the Saylor Beall paint on Monday and hopefully the aftermarket parts as well.

Attached is a picture of the A.O. Smith (Century) V305 7.5HP Motor

 

[EOC_Jason]

Someone got on it with the puller and cracked the pulley... Oh well, like you said good thing you aren't using it.

I would keep searching, there is a guy here on our local CL (Houston) that is selling some brand new motors, I haven't compared prices to retail but they seem decent:

Smith- 5 HP - $320.00
Lesson- 5 HP - $290.00
Baldor- 5 HP - $449.00

Oh yeah, FYI if you want some good anti-vibration feet for the compressor, McMaster Carr... Search item # 60855K54 as a good starting place.

 

[jonathan75]

Someone got on it with the puller and cracked the pulley... Oh well, like you said good thing you aren't using it.

I would keep searching, there is a guy here on our local CL (Houston) that is selling some brand new motors, I haven't compared prices to retail but they seem decent:

Smith- 5 HP - $320.00
Lesson- 5 HP - $290.00
Baldor- 5 HP - $449.00

Oh yeah, FYI if you want some good anti-vibration feet for the compressor, McMaster Carr... Search item # 60855K54 as a good starting place.

I am looking for a 7.5 HP. Does he offer any 7.5's?

Thanks for the tip on the feet. They look good and I like the bolt. But since I already have bolts for it I might just drill some holes in hockey pucks and get these.

http://amzn.com/B008875XYU

 

[Mr onetwo]

Hey dude, check out this used Baldor on fleabay.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baldor-Moto...412?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a81c9354c

 

[W-Cummins]

You can wire it for single-phase there are several wiring diagrams online depicting this.

I never said you could not wire it up I said it was NOT rated for that load!
You need a larger starter for a 7.5hp single phase motor, the starter you have is rated for a THREE PHASE 7.5hp motor at 230V it uses THREE contacts to switch the required amp load. You want to run it on TWO contacts for a LARGER amp load. I never said it would not work it may even last a long time OVERLOADED, as NEMA rated starters are rather stout units.

They sell 50 amp electrical plugs. It doesn't matter what you hook to it as long as you don't go over 50 amps.

This is not correct. Just like they sell motor rated switches, they sell motor rated plugs and they are supposed to be used for that application. A plug is designed to make or break the load it's rated for, and motor loads place a nasty current load on the line when they start. Your 50 amp plug may see well above 100 amp on start up.

I'm dealing with this very problem on my own 7.5hp motor circuits I could and can start and run them on 20 amps, but I need to use 30 amp plugs for their higher HP motor rating, and so 30 amp circuits are required.

Once again this is not to say you couldn't get a 50amp range plug and make it work, and in the past I too have done stuff like that. I just try not to hack stuff if I don't have to anymore

William.....

 

[jonathan75]

I never said you could not wire it up I said it was NOT rated for that load!
You need a larger starter for a 7.5hp single phase motor, the starter you have is rated for a THREE PHASE 7.5hp motor at 230V it uses THREE contacts to switch the required amp load. You want to run it on TWO contacts for a LARGER amp load. I never said it would not work it may even last a long time OVERLOADED, as NEMA rated starters are rather stout units.


This is not correct. Just like they sell motor rated switches, they sell motor rated plugs and they are supposed to be used for that application. A plug is designed to make or break the load it's rated for, and motor loads place a nasty current load on the line when they start. Your 50 amp plug may see well above 100 amp on start up.

I'm dealing with this very problem on my own 7.5hp motor circuits I could and can start and run them on 20 amps, but I need to use 30 amp plugs for their higher HP motor rating, and so 30 amp circuits are required.

Once again this is not to say you couldn't get a 50amp range plug and make it work, and in the past I too have done stuff like that. I just try not to hack stuff if I don't have to anymore

William.....

You are correct it is not rated for single phase but it can handle the current. NEMA is conservative already and it can handle 27 continuous Amps on NEMA 1. I couldn't find how much it can handle peak or any rating for that but considering it is conservative already it should have no problem taking my continuous load of 32 Amps.

As for the plug if I thought I was going to pull 100 amps I would not use a 50 Amp plug. The only reason I would use a 50 Amp plug is because my continuous load is only 32 Amps. If something went wrong and I pulled more then 50 Amps my breaker would kick in before my wire melted as it is designed.

I already have a 30 Amp outlet where I wanted the compressor but I won't use it. The start-up current would exceed the rating of the breaker and trip every time the compressor kicks in. If I change the breaker the #10 wire is not rated for that and it would be unsafe. So I am going to make a new run of #6 wire and 50 Amp breakers.