Saylor-Beall Rebuild

[jonathan75]

I don't know what to think now after reading this. Any input on NEMA vs. IEC? Can it handle the duty cycle of a air compressor?

http://www.electrolsystems.com/news/article1/iec-vs-nema.htm

I spoke to the company that wrote the IEC vs. NEMA write up. They said the Fuji's I was looking at would work and they sell the other brand but it costs more. He was nice to help me even though I don't think I could spend the money on the brand they sold.

 

[jonathan75]

What do you think about the Fuji's?

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...tors_-z-_Overloads/32_to_50_Amp/SC-E2S-220VAC

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...tactors_-z-_Overloads/32_to_50_Amp/TK-E2-4200

Edit: May work, can't handle the duty cycle from what I was told.

I have heard of a Slick Deals effect but I wonder if there is a Garage Journal effect? Now they are sold out!

 

[jonathan75]

Here is a nice little kit and they also use IEC. So it must work fine if everyone is using it but it may have to be UL listed IEC.

http://elimia.ecrater.com/p/15024494/elimia-air-compressor-motor-starter#

 

[Mr onetwo]

Here is a nice little kit and they also use IEC. So it must work fine if everyone is using it but it may have to be UL listed IEC.

http://elimia.ecrater.com/p/15024494/elimia-air-compressor-motor-starter#

Won't work...it's only rated for 5HP single phase. As far as I remember, IEC and NEMA are 2 flavors of the same sauce.Just make sure the rating is adequate.Why don't you care for the one from UPE? It is exactly what you need.

 

[jonathan75]

Won't work...it's only rated for 5HP single phase. As far as I remember, IEC and NEMA are 2 flavors of the same sauce.Just make sure the rating is adequate.Why don't you care for the one from UPE? It is exactly what you need.

I was using the link as an example. But they do offer a higher rated model and the boxes are nice. I don't have anything against the UPE version but just still doing research. But right now I am leaning toward the Fuji's.

 

[Todd.Brock]

Forgive my questions as my 5 hp is thermally protected. Is there really that much confusion around magnetic starters? Is it price, features , etc. that has everyone looking at different sites, etc?

I figured you ordered for certain number of amps, single phase and then good to go??!

 

[jonathan75]

Forgive my questions as my 5 hp is thermally protected. Is there really this much confusion around magnetic starters? Is it price, features , etc. hat have everyone looking at different sites, etc?

I figured you ordered for certain number if amps, single phase and then good to go??!

I guess too many questions and too many choices. NEMA or IEC, use old or new, amp ratings enough or not, good manufacture or bad, technical support telling you their product won't work then you find out it can. It makes your head spin.

I found this guy used Fuji controllers on his 707 build as well. He even got it from the same source I was looking at. I saw this thread before but didn't notice that part.

http://forum.ih8mud.com/tools-fabrication/628193-saylor-beall-745-80-rebuild.html

 

[jonathan75]

Got some parts in today! Special thanks to Ken at Air-Flo, he was able to get me everything I needed. This is the OEM shipment that he had drop shipped from Saylor Beall. He is also sending me some aftermarket parts that I should get in later this week.

Air-Flo (Ken)
http://www.airfloinc.com
864.877.3515

 

[jonathan75]

And more parts.....

 

[metal4130]

Beautiful looking parts! Yes, the Siemens starters have OL protection and it is rated for 7.5HP single phase. I should have my new starter tomorrow according to Fed-ex. I wanted to see the inside too so I had PLC center send me pictures before I bought it.

 

[jonathan75]

Beautiful looking parts! Yes, the Siemens starters have OL protection and it is rated for 7.5HP single phase. I should have my new starter tomorrow according to Fed-ex. I wanted to see the inside too so I had PLC center send me pictures before I bought it.

Thanks for the inside picture. I wonder where they hide the thermal protection? Must be built inside the controller.

Tell me more about yours. What brand of motor did you get and where did you buy it from? And what is that box near the oil level sight glass? I noticed yours has the crankcase breather extension on it also. I found that my threads were stripped and I assumed that is why they put the extension on. Now I am not so sure.

 

[metal4130]

Thanks for the inside picture. I wonder where they hide the thermal protection? Must be built inside the controller.

Tell me more about yours. What brand of motor did you get and where did you buy it from? And what is that box near the oil level sight glass? I noticed yours has the crankcase breather extension on it also. I found that my threads were stripped and I assumed that is why they put the extension on. Now I am not so sure.

I went with a Baldor L1510T motor from these guys:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L1510T-7-5-...332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec84a7884

I e-mailed them off of eBay and they sold it to me for $600 shipped to my door. That was the best price I found anywhere. It is made in the USA and seems to be of good quality. That device you are looking at is a low oil cut-off. It is nothing more then a float and a micro switch. It is wired in series with the pressure switch so if the oil is low the motor won't start.

Right now I have the pump all plumbed into the tank. I got new belts late last week and have my motor starter coming tomorrow so I hope to have it running soon. I'm adding a Hankison 505bc auto tank drain so I have to buy the fittings to get that hooked up. I bought the compressor from a factory asset liquidation company so I have not heard it run yet but it pumps air when I crank it by hand, it doesn't knock and the oil was clean.

 

[jonathan75]

I went with a Baldor L1510T motor from these guys:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L1510T-7-5-...332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ec84a7884

I e-mailed them off of eBay and they sold it to me for $600 shipped to my door. That was the best price I found anywhere. It is made in the USA and seems to be of good quality. That device you are looking at is a low oil cut-off. It is nothing more then a float and a micro switch. It is wired in series with the pressure switch so if the oil is low the motor won't start.

Thank you for the tip, that is a good price. Do you have any special negotiating powers or tips for me to get the same price?

That is interesting you have the oil low cut-off. I wonder if that is an add on or from Saylor Beall?

 

[metal4130]

Thank you for the tip, that is a good price. Do you have any special negotiating powers or tips for me to get the same price?

That is interesting you have the oil low cut-off. I wonder if that is an add on or from Saylor Beall?

Yep, it is a factory installed option.

 

[jonathan75]

The garage was nice and cool tonight with the fan blowing on me as well. I did prep work for priming before painting. All the loose paint was sanded off and each part cleaned and tested that goes on the unloader cover. I used a Dremel with a brass wire brush for the threads and tight spots. After that I used 220 and 400 grit sandpaper for the rest. I also used some 0000 steel wool on the gasket surface. I followed up with a blacklight inspection for anything missed.

Tomorrow I hope to find the Schrader Valve with the red band and prime it with the etching primer.

 

[jonathan75]

Right now I have the pump all plumbed into the tank. I got new belts late last week and have my motor starter coming tomorrow so I hope to have it running soon. I'm adding a Hankison 505bc auto tank drain so I have to buy the fittings to get that hooked up. I bought the compressor from a factory asset liquidation company so I have not heard it run yet but it pumps air when I crank it by hand, it doesn't knock and the oil was clean.

Did you have to buy new belts because of a new pulley size that could not be compensated for in motor mounting position or were they damaged?

Will you have it running tonight? Everything ready? Please record it on video.

For oil I am going to use Castrol SAE 30. The non detergent kind you use in lawnmowers. Air-Flo told me that compressor oil is just non detergent oil but they charge more for it.

 

[EOC_Jason]

For oil I am going to use Castrol SAE 30. The non detergent kind you use in lawnmowers. Air-Flo told me that compressor oil is just non detergent oil but they charge more for it.

I've found my local Autozone carries non-detergent SAE 30...

After your first couple oil changes you might want to consider switching to synthetic. I believe you can order Amsoil online if there isn't one near you, they carry non-detergent compressor oil in different weights.

 

[metal4130]

Did you have to buy new belts because of a new pulley size that could not be compensated for in motor mounting position or were they damaged?

Will you have it running tonight? Everything ready? Please record it on video.

For oil I am going to use Castrol SAE 30. The non detergent kind you use in lawnmowers. Air-Flo told me that compressor oil is just non detergent oil but they charge more for it.

I bought new belts because the old ones were all cracked and rotted. For me a gates B79 belt with an 82" outside circle should put my motor right in the middle of the adjustment range. My tank allows for 3" of motor adjustment so I probably could have used the old belts even though my new pulley is smaller.

Hope to have to compressor running in a week or two.

 

[Mr onetwo]

I've found my local Autozone carries non-detergent SAE 30...

After your first couple oil changes you might want to consider switching to synthetic. I believe you can order Amsoil online if there isn't one near you, they carry non-detergent compressor oil in different weights.

Plus one on the Amsoil...it's fantastic in this service! There is a utube video somewhere that has the sound of a compressor before and after.The difference is amazing

 

[EOC_Jason]

Plus one on the Amsoil...it's fantastic in this service! There is a utube video somewhere that has the sound of a compressor before and after.The difference is amazing

I'm glad someone else said it and not me. Because I could of sworn after changing a couple compressors with the Amsoil it sounded like they kind of smoothed out. Nothing dramatic, but definitely noticeable, if you are one of those people that really listens to equipment running.

 

[Mr onetwo]

It took me a while to find my Saylor Beall. You have to keep checking Craigslist. So far it looks like one will pop up every 2-3 months.

Your build has been an inspiration.I just pulled the trigger on a 1977 IR 253T30.Not a S-B but still an great big old thumper.It runs at 500RPM.I am going to start a new thread and follow your lead.

 

[jonathan75]

Your build has been an inspiration.I just pulled the trigger on a 1977 IR 253T30.Not a S-B but still an great big old thumper.It runs at 500RPM.I am going to start a new thread and follow your lead.

It looks great! I can't wait to follow your thread and watch your progress. Hope yours takes less money to get running then mine.

 

[jonathan75]

I bought new belts because the old ones were all cracked and rotted. For me a gates B79 belt with an 82" outside circle should put my motor right in the middle of the adjustment range. My tank allows for 3" of motor adjustment so I probably could have used the old belts even though my new pulley is smaller.

Hope to have to compressor running in a week or two.

What will you use to tension the belts? I saw one thread where the guy built his own tensioner.

 

[jonathan75]

I am still at a loss when it comes to this schrader valve. It came with a red band one and my neighbor found me an orange one which he said is for high pressure. But the spring tension is very loose and easy to push in the valve stem. The original red one and the black one at the auto parts store is harder to push in. I am not sure if for this application if it is better to be easier or harder to push in the valve?

Tonight I started to work on the dog house. I got some rough sanding done but still have a lot more to do on it. I think I need to pick up some more Dremel attachments to help with the corners and tight spots. Too bad the Dremel tools wear out so fast and cost so much. Because they really are a big help. Here are some before pictures.

 

[jonathan75]

And here are some after pictures of the rough sanding. I still have more rough sanding to do and then some fine sanding after that. Every time I do this I think about my Yoda moment at the auto paint store. The guy told me "If you feel it, you can see it." That stuck with me and I feel everything very carefully after sanding. I am not going to sand to the metal in all the areas but just rough it up. At the front of the dog house I had to go to metal because it is smoother and the machine shop took it down already.

Is it okay to paint gasket surfaces or should I tape those up?

 

[Mr onetwo]

Great looking work...that pump hasn't had this much love and attention since it's birth! When I look closely, the 2 red banded schraders appear to be exactly the same.The black on has some subtle differences.None of this may matter. I would try the red one....I don't think the spring tension matters.

 

[jonathan75]

When I look closely, the 2 red banded ones appear to be exactly the same.The black on has some subtle differences.None of this may matter. I would try the red one....I don't think the spring tension matters.

The top red one is original. It is dirty and very old. I don't want to put it back in. But the Orange and Black one is new. Just one has higher spring tension then the other. Other then that I have no idea what the colors mean. I still can't find a new red one.

 

[Mr onetwo]

Red or orange normally denotes a higher temp compound.By the Schrader book the orange core is good for 300 degrees and 250PSI.Both much higher than standard tire core

 

[metal4130]

What will you use to tension the belts? I saw one thread where the guy built his own tensioner.

That is exactly my plan. Threaded rod and some wood blocks.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Schrader has a PDF on their website you can download for colors & specs... Though honestly I think either will be okay.

Tape up the gasket surfaces.

Are you planning on assembling and painting it in one shot, or painting each part individually then assembling?

 

[Zrexxer]

What will you use to tension the belts? I saw one thread where the guy built his own tensioner.

That was me, actually...

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51872

 

[EOC_Jason]

That is a cool method to tension the belts. I've seen some setups where the motor is mounted on a plate and underneath it you can tighten / loosen a bolt which will push the motor in / out to adjust tension. But that is a lot more complex than your two blocks of wood & all thread approach.

 

[Todd.Brock]

I read a different thread where the OP got fancy with the wood fitting on the vgroove or something. I was thinking a turnbuckle would work. Zrexxer, I like your simple cut outs. I could use that on my bandsaw as well. I could do the pulley side first and tighten the bolts enough to hold it in place and then do the backside of the motor against the pump to square it up.

 

[Vettman]

Enjoyed reading your build! You do good work! I will "lurk"

 

[mayday0017]

Hm.... I'm to lazy to build something just for tightening a belt from time to time. Every time I need to tighten a compressor belt I take a small jack (I have one I forgot to put back in my truck before i traded it in woops) I sit it between the motor and the pump and turn it with a screwdriver. once I am happy with how tight the belt is I tighten the motor and remove the jack. Takes all of 3 minutes maybe to get it out set the belt and put it back.

Would be cool if they all came with adjusters though, and for the price you would almost think more would....

 

[Burgerkong]

You could also get 4 sprockets and thread the inside to match your all thread, then extend the wood blocks so it'll touch the full length of the motor as well as the pump. Thread the sprockets onto the all thread like Zrexxer did with the nuts, then check to see if the wood blocks are parallel. Then install some bicycle chain onto the sprockets so that turning one will turn the other. Hook up a motor with two opposite rotation output shafts and stick a couple of sprockets on the end. Voila, electrical belt tensioner that will ensure the pulleys are perfectly collinear...






Or you could just stick with bolts and all thread.

 

[EOC_Jason]

On my little craftsman with the belt that has tiny v-grooves, it's easier to just take it off, move the motor out and align it. Then work the belt back on by spinning the flywheel by hand.

 

[jonathan75]

Just a quick update tonight. I got more parts in today and was going through and making sure I had everything and doing test fittings. But I was working in the garage so late that I don't have time to post all the pictures.

But I do want to ask a question and share a video I took. My bearing opening on the end of the rod is 1.540 with the new oversized bearings and the crankshaft is 1.543. Will this be a issue? It makes it a little tight.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SdSRvZjM8DI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[mayday0017]

Just because I have to ask, the top of the rod in the 3rd pic looks broken and I see you measuring th ID of a bearing in a rod in another pic. You didn't put the new bearing in the old rod then tighten it onto the crank to see how it fits did you?

 

[jonathan75]

Just because I have to ask, the top of the rod in the 3rd pic looks broken and I see you measuring th ID of a bearing in a rod in another pic. You didn't put the new bearing in the old rod then tighten it onto the crank to see how it fits did you?

Yes, that is what I did. I hope I didn't do wrong. But it was only in for a few minutes to measure and take the video then I took them out. When they came out they looked to be in the same shape as when I put them in. This broken rod didn't have spun bearings so the shape was still good so I thought I would use it for testing.

Is there any issue with it being tight or will it wear fast to where it needs to be?

I can make sure all my future test are with the bearing matching the rod for it's place on the shaft. It was just a quick test because I was so curious of what it was going to look like.