Sears' response on tools made in China

[marlinspike]

Just look at all the people on here that go out and buy used tools and then want to get them warrantied.

Am I the only person who considers the people who do this to be despicable low level grifters?

 

[Spudland_Dave]

I have gotta add a couple of things. Many people have brought up great points, but one I haven't heard is this: Americans don't even know tools anymore. Show some pictures and ask the average kid to name a screwdriver, a hammer, a ratchet, and a wrench and I would be surprised if the average was better than a 50%. And those are the most common tools. For most of us, we new those by the time we were 5. Now how many of those people even think about a quality difference when purchasing tools. They just see tools and get the cheapest one thinking they all do the same thing.

I'd offer up my 2 year old in this competition, I bet he can identify more tools then most 30 year olds today. Without going too far off topic, last year he got a "toy tool" assortement of plastic fake tools...not good enough for him he used them for a week and then wanted real ones, so now he's got all real tools...C-Man raised panel 3/8 Ratchet, couple Stanley screwdrivers...We have to laugh. I guess thats what happens when your grandfather is a Tool-A-Holic (36 years of Service doing Maintenance in a Paper Mill), and I apparently inherited that disease myself..I think the little guy got it too.

When I was growing up, Craftsman was the brand you went for if you wanted quality. It was advertised that way on woodworking and auto shows. They always also played commercials about their difference and reputation. Somewhere along the way they gave up on educating the population. I mean who doesn't remember Bob Villa and craftsman?

You must be a bit older then me, I dont ever remember feeling that Cman was the "quality" stop...I remember Bob Vila, and remember alot of Cman commercials, but IMO I always got the feeling that Cman was "Great Quality at a great price, with great service and a bazillion stores from coast to coast" I remember "No Questions Asked Warrantied Forever" Not just Lifetime warranty...FOREVER Warranty. Problem here is they cut into too many of those key points...Price isnt great anymore, Service is hit or miss depending on store, and they are closing or closed many stores.

 

[kythri]

Am I the only person who considers the people who do this to be despicable low level grifters?

Y'know, here's the thing:

The tool has a lifetime warranty. If the end-user buys it used or damaged, and warranties it, they're not doing a single thing wrong. They're not scamming anyone, they're not defrauding anyone, they're not grifting anyone.

Now, I certainly think that if you're taking a perfectly working tool that just isn't brand-new shiny and warrantying it, rather than just using it, you're a jackass, but even then, you're still not really doing anything wrong, per the wording of the warranty, and per statements made by Sears executive management.

The warranty pretty clearly states that if your satsifaction is impacted in any way, you're allowed to return it for repair/replacement.

But that's kind of besides the point. The bigger point here is that all of this speculation on the warranty "abuse" being a major impact to Sears bottom line? It's just that - speculation.

More speculation: I don't believe for a second that so-called "abuse" of the lifetime warranty measurably impacts Sears bottom line. If it did, they would have changed it by now.

I believe that the goodwill fostered by that rather fantastic warranty brings in far more sales than it sends out replacements, by an astronomical amount.

When I first started getting serious about tools, I was hunting pawn shops and what not for good tools. I picked up a fair amount of Craftsman, solely because of that warranty - because I knew if I had any issues, I'd get a replacement for it.

And yeah, I bought a handful of pieces (a couple wrenches, a couple sockets, a bad ratchet) that were obviously broken, because I knew I could exchange them - and I did.

And that very warranty that allowed me to do that? That's why I've spent several thousand dollars at Sears over the last decade. Because that warranty fostered goodwill and encouraged me to shop at Sears (and not just for Craftsman hand tools).

Obviously, the recent developments have eroded a fair amount of that goodwill, but the fact remains:

Because of a couple bucks of warranty returns of used tools, I've spent thousands of dollars on new tools and other merchandise.

I think there's plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that the warranty isn't the driver for these business decisions. Ratchets are a great example - if the warranty replacement was really killing them, they'd be far more engaged in repairing the tools while you wait rather than replacing them - a minimum wage employee spending 10-15 minutes swapping a maintenance kit is far cheaper than giving you a new ratchet off the shelf.

 

[Joe69]

Compare an old C-man wrench to a newer one. The new ones are much thicker because they are made of cheaper steel. They don't fit in as tight of places as they used to.

Sadly, Snap-on thickened their impact swivel sockets too. They may have done this for warranty reasons, but I have never had the socket part fail, it's always the swivel pin that breaks.

Joe

 

[MN Falcon]

Y'know, here's the thing:

The tool has a lifetime warranty. If the end-user buys it used or damaged, and warranties it, they're not doing a single thing wrong. They're not scamming anyone, they're not defrauding anyone, they're not grifting anyone.

Now, I certainly think that if you're taking a perfectly working tool that just isn't brand-new shiny and warrantying it, rather than just using it, you're a jackass, but even then, you're still not really doing anything wrong, per the wording of the warranty, and per statements made by Sears executive management.

The warranty pretty clearly states that if your satsifaction is impacted in any way, you're allowed to return it for repair/replacement.

But that's kind of besides the point. The bigger point here is that all of this speculation on the warranty "abuse" being a major impact to Sears bottom line? It's just that - speculation.

More speculation: I don't believe for a second that so-called "abuse" of the lifetime warranty measurably impacts Sears bottom line. If it did, they would have changed it by now.

I believe that the goodwill fostered by that rather fantastic warranty brings in far more sales than it sends out replacements, by an astronomical amount.

When I first started getting serious about tools, I was hunting pawn shops and what not for good tools. I picked up a fair amount of Craftsman, solely because of that warranty - because I knew if I had any issues, I'd get a replacement for it.

And yeah, I bought a handful of pieces (a couple wrenches, a couple sockets, a bad ratchet) that were obviously broken, because I knew I could exchange them - and I did.

And that very warranty that allowed me to do that? That's why I've spent several thousand dollars at Sears over the last decade. Because that warranty fostered goodwill and encouraged me to shop at Sears (and not just for Craftsman hand tools).

Obviously, the recent developments have eroded a fair amount of that goodwill, but the fact remains:

Because of a couple bucks of warranty returns of used tools, I've spent thousands of dollars on new tools and other merchandise.

I think there's plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that the warranty isn't the driver for these business decisions. Ratchets are a great example - if the warranty replacement was really killing them, they'd be far more engaged in repairing the tools while you wait rather than replacing them - a minimum wage employee spending 10-15 minutes swapping a maintenance kit is far cheaper than giving you a new ratchet off the shelf.

+1 on that thought. I don't think I have spent thousands of dollars on new Craftsman tools, but the value is very high. And I really wasn't done buying stuff either I get some used, but the vast majority of what I have was either given to me as gifts new or I bought new probably 70/30 or more. I have some of the lower end stuff with the RP and some of the older USA made full polish stuff. I couldn't tell you for sure what I have exchanged in the say 22 years that I have been using the Craftsman stuff (prior to that I used my father's Proto stuff). Maybe 10 sockets overall and a ratchet before I learned from this site how to take them apart to clean and lube them (I am sure this was all that one needed as well) and one new Chinese made ratcheting wrench (although I cannot say it had to do with lower quality anything, duds happen). I really don't think that the few exchanges I have done was really that detrimental to the bottom line considering what I have spent there. I really have had zero issue with the stuff I have and it has all held up well with use. In fact I would say in the years that I have been in the Craftsman club, Sears has just given me more free sockets than I have had exchanges, for instance I remember getting a free socket last fall with $5 free points they gave me in my account.

 

[woody 73]

The comment about low life grifters confuses me somewhat; I buy a lot of tools from Sears and I buy A lot of used sears tools and in the course of a year they all get put together in the same old tool box. When a tool breaks I have no clue if i bought it new or used when I take it in for a replacement....Does this mean I am a grifter? I hope not because I am a very honest man, still I am confused by that GJ post.

 

[Conductor562]

Y'know, here's the thing:

The tool has a lifetime warranty. If the end-user buys it used or damaged, and warranties it, they're not doing a single thing wrong. They're not scamming anyone, they're not defrauding anyone, they're not grifting anyone.

Now, I certainly think that if you're taking a perfectly working tool that just isn't brand-new shiny and warrantying it, rather than just using it, you're a jackass, but even then, you're still not really doing anything wrong, per the wording of the warranty, and per statements made by Sears executive management.

The warranty pretty clearly states that if your satsifaction is impacted in any way, you're allowed to return it for repair/replacement.

But that's kind of besides the point. The bigger point here is that all of this speculation on the warranty "abuse" being a major impact to Sears bottom line? It's just that - speculation.

More speculation: I don't believe for a second that so-called "abuse" of the lifetime warranty measurably impacts Sears bottom line. If it did, they would have changed it by now.

I believe that the goodwill fostered by that rather fantastic warranty brings in far more sales than it sends out replacements, by an astronomical amount.

When I first started getting serious about tools, I was hunting pawn shops and what not for good tools. I picked up a fair amount of Craftsman, solely because of that warranty - because I knew if I had any issues, I'd get a replacement for it.

And yeah, I bought a handful of pieces (a couple wrenches, a couple sockets, a bad ratchet) that were obviously broken, because I knew I could exchange them - and I did.

And that very warranty that allowed me to do that? That's why I've spent several thousand dollars at Sears over the last decade. Because that warranty fostered goodwill and encouraged me to shop at Sears (and not just for Craftsman hand tools).

Obviously, the recent developments have eroded a fair amount of that goodwill, but the fact remains:

Because of a couple bucks of warranty returns of used tools, I've spent thousands of dollars on new tools and other merchandise.

I think there's plenty of anecdotal evidence to suggest that the warranty isn't the driver for these business decisions. Ratchets are a great example - if the warranty replacement was really killing them, they'd be far more engaged in repairing the tools while you wait rather than replacing them - a minimum wage employee spending 10-15 minutes swapping a maintenance kit is far cheaper than giving you a new ratchet off the shelf.

You pay more for tools that are covered for life. The warranty liability is covered in whole or in part by the original purchase price. If warranty obligations were such a huge concern Sears would have long ago increased quality or price. I have way to many tools to remember where each came from. Am I to forfeit all warranties for that reason? What about the few thousand dollars worth I've received as gifts over the last 15 years? Guess I'm a grifter The point is that no matter how many times the tools change hands, the manufacturer got their money. Obviously if you're 40 years old taking a ratchet in for warranty that was built in 1950 might justify an exception, but beyond something like that I don't see a problem.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

Is there any real proof the made in China Craftsman tools are made to a lower grade. It's not where it's made that matter on quality but the whole QC process. I rather have the tools made here in the U.S. but it's going to cost more to produce and would you guys that complain about where it's made have a problem with paying 30 to 40% more on the tools?

Not all communist stuff is junk, and not all USA stuff isn't junk.... I have seven USA Crapsman ratchets that are junk....
A set of Nine 3/8" drive sockets with a ratchet, were on sale at Ace and Sears for $9.99 about 13 months ago... These sets were bought for Christmas gifts and for vehicle toolboxes... I tried two of the ratchets out in the shop, and they proved to be a piece of junk I would not trust pulling on even lightly.... I didn't expect high quality for that price; but,,,,,,Bearing the Craftsman name, I hoped for "acceptable" quality...

I had a 1/2" drive version of these ratchets from back in the 60s, and it served me well for over 40 years. Sears warranteed that ratchet about ten years ago,, and a couple years later, I bought an extra ratchet, but the flipper lever was plastic... All three of these ratchets would do their job, but the quality declined twice ..... Bout six months ago, I bought the 1/2" drive long handled flex head version of this ratchet....it is still in it's little wrapper, Well,,, I have eight new ratchets to work on..... Are they even worth farting around with,, I'll let you know my thought when I pull them apart........Hope that some tweaking and lube will make them somewhat dependable... Bout two weeks ago, I was in Sears and looked at some large USA combination wrenches.. there was flashing that was left on those wrenches and then plated over... I didn't pick the wrenches up for a closer look because I feared cutting myself on the sharp edges!! honest... I was looking for a set to replace large HF cheapos.. Nnooo thanks crapsman.... I spent about three hours in Sears that day...I didn't buy much, just a couple items... I looked at USA screwdrivers that had sharp plating peeling off of them...There are still lots of good tools at Sears, for now,, but also allot of junk.. Those three hours felt like a funeral....The Craftsman I have known is dead..

The ratchet in my HF 3/4" drive set was far worse...I bought this set for a low cost set of metric sockets.. the ratchet was a boobie prize... the inside of that ratchet appeared to be cut with a dull cookie cutter, and off center..That one was warranteed by HF, along with a 3/4" drive breaker bar that broke on a moderate pull, and a long 3/4" combination wrench that split right down the handle...

I have never been brand loyal when it comes to tools...SnapOn, Proto, Sk, Craftsman, HF and a host of others can be found in my shop... I have my likes and dislikes in every brand... On the tools used the most, I WILL spend more: all my impact swivels are SnapOn.. SnapOn, SK and Proto for wrench favorites..... For seldom use applications, the low end tools may be adequate...but not always....
Seems Craftsman and HF have tossed the job of quality control out the window, and it landed on my shoulders(((( for my purchases))) I prefer USA tools,,, but junk is junk no matter where it is made...and some of the communist products are good for the price we pay.....
Not what I like to say, nor hear.... but that is the truth........ ****

 

[marlinspike]

Obviously if you're 40 years old taking a ratchet in for warranty that was built in 1950 might justify an exception, but beyond something like that I don't see a problem.

But that's pretty much what I've seen people here doing. I think I even saw a poster on here recently complaining that they were replacing his 30 year old ratchet with a rebuilt one.

 

[Unearthed]

All of the Craftsman tools I own are made in the U.S. Most of them are 10 years old and counting. I'll have to go to sears and pick up a Chinese made ones and compare. I been to HF a few times and never got anything there. I think some of the member's just expect to much from HF and Sears for the price you pay. Everything is more expensive now and the target consumer for sears has changed too.

How old are you?

 

[Conductor562]

But that's pretty much what I've seen people here doing. I think I even saw a poster on here recently complaining that they were replacing his 30 year old ratchet with a rebuilt one.

And if 30 years is within their lifetime what's the problem? To me a lifetime warranty covers your lifetime. Whether you bought it new or used is irrelevant. If it can be dated to before the date of birth on your state ID you're out of luck. That's my view anyway.

 

[kythri]

But that's pretty much what I've seen people here doing. I think I even saw a poster on here recently complaining that they were replacing his 30 year old ratchet with a rebuilt one.

Here's the thing: It doesn't matter if it's 50 years, 100 years, 10 years, or 1 year.

Here's the text of the warranty:

Craftsman hand tools are guaranteed forever. If any Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it to Sears for free repair or replacement. This warranty gives you specific rights and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state. Other Craftsman tools are covered by limited warranties.

It doesn't say "original purchase" it doesn't list any time frame on that. It doesn't say "lifetime", so there's no argument to be had about the owner's lifetime, or the original purchaser's lifetime, or the tool's lifetime - it says that the tool is guaranteed. FOREVER.

That's pretty damned explicit.

That's what makes (or made) Craftsman great - I could pick up an old rusty ratchet that I found in a field and get it repaired or replaced, without issue.

As far as people complaining about getting a rebuild, having seen most of the comments here about that very subject, virtually all of them have been around taking in a broken ratchet, and having a rebuild of lesser quality/condition (albeit one that is functional) provided to them as the replacement.

I see no issue with that - if I take in a 30 year old ratchet that's in beautiful condition, with the only issue being a broken pawl, or busted teeth on the gear, and they try to give me a nicked-up banged-up scratched-up ratchet that someone used as a hammer? You can bet that I don't want that rebuild.

But, even if they're taking in a ratchet and being given a rebuild instead of a new ratchet? Well, sorry, but, let's read the guarantee again:

If any Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it to Sears for free repair or replacement. This warranty gives you specific rights and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state. Other Craftsman tools are covered by limited warranties.

Complete satisfaction is the guarantee that Sears themselves published.

While I'm not going to have much sympathy for someone that isn't being handed brand-new-off-the-shelf ratchets, and instead is being provided an equal-or-better-quality/condition rebuilt ratchet, if they're not satisfied with that rebuild, well, the warranty is pretty clear.

 

[Conductor562]

Here's the thing: It doesn't matter if it's 50 years, 100 years, 10 years, or 1 year.

Here's the text of the warranty:

Craftsman hand tools are guaranteed forever. If any Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it to Sears for free repair or replacement. This warranty gives you specific rights and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state. Other Craftsman tools are covered by limited warranties.

It doesn't say "original purchase" it doesn't list any time frame on that. It doesn't say "lifetime", so there's no argument to be had about the owner's lifetime, or the original purchaser's lifetime, or the tool's lifetime - it says that the tool is guaranteed. FOREVER.

That's pretty damned explicit.

That's what makes (or made) Craftsman great - I could pick up an old rusty ratchet that I found in a field and get it repaired or replaced, without issue.

As far as people complaining about getting a rebuild, having seen most of the comments here about that very subject, virtually all of them have been around taking in a broken ratchet, and having a rebuild of lesser quality/condition (albeit one that is functional) provided to them as the replacement.

I see no issue with that - if I take in a 30 year old ratchet that's in beautiful condition, with the only issue being a broken pawl, or busted teeth on the gear, and they try to give me a nicked-up banged-up scratched-up ratchet that someone used as a hammer? You can bet that I don't want that rebuild.

But, even if they're taking in a ratchet and being given a rebuild instead of a new ratchet? Well, sorry, but, let's read the guarantee again:

If any Craftsman hand tool ever fails to give complete satisfaction, return it to Sears for free repair or replacement. This warranty gives you specific rights and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state. Other Craftsman tools are covered by limited warranties.

Complete satisfaction is the guarantee that Sears themselves published.

While I'm not going to have much sympathy for someone that isn't being handed brand-new-off-the-shelf ratchets, and instead is being provided an equal-or-better-quality/condition rebuilt ratchet, if they're not satisfied with that rebuild, well, the warranty is pretty clear.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I just wasn't speaking specifically of Craftsman.

 

[kythri]

That's cool - I responded collectively to 2-3 different posts.

I don't specifically have an issue with a finite warranty term, but I do take umbrage to weaselly marketing, such as "Lifetime" without a definition of what constitutes a lifetime, and which lifetime is being referred to (tool, owner, original purchaser, etc.) - just be explicit about the warranty term, and it's all good.

Personally, my belief is that, on most above-average quality tools, breakage isn't that common, so having an incredibly liberal warranty policy (a'la Sears/Craftsman) isn't a bank-breaker, so beating around the bush in an attempt to limit warranty claims is just ridiculous.

Date-coding tools is already done by some manufacturers, and it's not hard to implement for others. If you don't want the warranty to be unlimited, then put a finite date on it (10, 20, 30, 50 years, whatever), date code the tool, and be done with it. Having to save receipts just to take advantage of a warranty is obnoxious for the above-average and higher-end or more premium-priced stuff.

 

[Conductor562]

I hate "for the life of the tool" with no stated life expectancy. I don't get too hung up on warranty and for most tool manufacturers (truck brands aside) I don't think it's a deal maker or breaker. However, the warranty made Craftsman and that puts them in a unique position in that they can't sacrifice the warranty details because it's their whole selling point, but they can't charge much more without pricing themselves out of reach for their intended market. Sears wants to ride Craftsman's shoulders to profitability, but I hate that they went about it this way.

 

[d.mcfarland]

Personally, my belief is that, on most above-average quality tools, breakage isn't that common, so having an incredibly liberal warranty policy (a'la Sears/Craftsman) isn't a bank-breaker, so beating around the bush in an attempt to limit warranty claims is just ridiculous.

But your example was finding a rusted tool in a field, not a snapped in half combination wrench.

 

[kythri]

But your example was finding a rusted tool in a field, not a snapped in half combination wrench.

Does it matter which one it is?

 

[Alamedasam]

I also sent a nasty gram to Sears. They gave me a real cold responce. I say they can keep their cheap foriegn garbage.

Dear President Of Sears:
*@#$
Recently I have been noticing sears selling Craftsman tools thar are now made in China!
I an extreemly shocked to find one of the oldest companies in America, known for top quality USA made tools, 'prostuting' itself by selling tools made in China!
*@#$
I just cant understand how you big companies have the nerve to sell cheap stuff to us manufactured outside the USA. If big bussiness such as Sears, continues on this path by outsourcing OUR jobs overseas, how do you think a 'jobless' society will be able to buy your cheap **** made with foreign labor.
*@#$
I am the 6th. Generation in my family, who faithfully patronized Sears for most all our household needs, including Craftsman tools. Sears always sold quality. Now your just trying to be cheap!
For me, this is the last straw, finding Craftsman made in China.
*@#$
I, for one, will never set foot in Sears again. I will pay more for products 'Made In America',
And will encourage my family, friends, and everyone posible to do the same. Once the folks in our country have no jobs and no income to buy your foriegn garbage, Sears will go the way of others: out of business. And, your job will also be gone! SHAME ON YOU SEARS!
*@#$
Signed: Rick Bays, Watsonville,Ca.: Disgusted-Diapointed-Done With SEARS

Here is my reply.

Good Evening Rick,
*@#$
Thank you for contacting sears.com.*@#$We are listening to what you have to say and we appreciate the time you have taken to let us know what you think about Craftsman tools. We are always looking for ways in which we can improve.
*@#$
All comments, suggestions, contributions and indeed all feedback from our sears.com customers are very important to us. Please know that our management team reviews feedback submitted by our customers and that many of the changes and additions on our website have been as a result of feedback from our customers.
*@#$*@#$
Sincerely,
*@#$
Neil K. (nsidrai) *@#$
Sears Customer Care
[email protected]
1-800-366-3028
*@#$

 

[ChargedUp!]

^^^
What did you want them to say? You are hearing from a basic CSR here. It's not like they can say, "Gee, you're right. I'm going to stop havin the company make tools in China tomorrow. Thank you from bringing this to our attention."

It will take an awful lot of similar type complaints for a change to happen and bring tool manufacturing back to the US. Maybe they can have 2 lines. A home line manufactured in China/ Taiwan/ India and market their professional line to "professionals" or people like us. Tools could be made in the USA but would cost more BUT be of higher quality.

 

[acdc73]

I have an old set of US made craftsman professional full polished combination wrenches that were probably the first that came out. They are thin and strong, and very nicely made as far as I can tell. The new Chinese made ones I saw at sears are thicker and the finish doesn't look as good. I don't buy craftsman anymore anyway, but it ***** when you have to warranty a US tool and get a Chinese replacement.

 

[87FoRunner]

I've been buying up a lot of the misc. USA tools like the side post battery ratchet, lock ring pliers, spark plug chaser, hose clamp pliers, etc. I imagine that stuff like that won't be around much longer or will be replaced by imported garbage.

 

[Rickster]

Craftsman is not going to china to cover warranty abuse. The price of warranty replacement is built into every craftsman tool when you buy it. The greedy bastards just figured out a way to capitalize on the craftsman tool reputation by charging craftsman prices for junk china tools.

 

[bdamico]

Craftsman is not going to china to cover warranty abuse. The price of warranty replacement is built into every craftsman tool when you buy it. The greedy bastards just figured out a way to capitalize on the craftsman tool reputation by charging craftsman prices for junk china tools.

It's more sad than funny that's what people think about companies that do what they need to do in order to survive--and in the case of sears is not really working. Do you say that about snap on?

 

[Conductor562]

It's more sad than funny that's what people think about companies that do what they need to do in order to survive--and in the case of sears is not really working. Do you say that about snap on?

If/when Dual 80's, Combo wrenches, or any other hardline item pops up stamped CHINA the anger here will register on the Richter scale.

 

[IMStuner]

I have an old set of US made craftsman professional full polished combination wrenches that were probably the first that came out. They are thin and strong, and very nicely made as far as I can tell. The new Chinese made ones I saw at sears are thicker and the finish doesn't look as good. I don't buy craftsman anymore anyway, but it ***** when you have to warranty a US tool and get a Chinese replacement.

Why does it ****? They are still giving you a replacement tool and you still get that forever warranty. I want to see some good proof on the poorly made Cman stuff in China. I want to see test on the old and new stuff. A lot of this is in your head I think. ( The new Chinese made ones I saw at sears are thicker and the finish doesn't look as good. ) Maybe they are making it thicker to make it stronger and maybe they have to use a new chrome process that more green which leads to poor finish. I know for a fact car paint is more Green friendly now but it's not as durable.

 

[IMStuner]

If/when Dual 80's, Combo wrenches, or any other hardline item pops up stamped CHINA the anger here will register on the Richter scale.

I buy Snap-On for the design, RD and quality. I could careless where my Snap-On tools are made. If they need to go to china and can keep the same quality then great. I rather have Snap-On around then see them go out of business because they aren't making any money.

 

[kythri]

Why does it ****? They are still giving you a replacement tool and you still get that forever warranty. I want to see some good proof on the poorly made Cman stuff in China. I want to see test on the old and new stuff. A lot of this is in your head I think. ( The new Chinese made ones I saw at sears are thicker and the finish doesn't look as good. ) Maybe they are making it thicker to make it stronger and maybe they have to use a new chrome process that more green which leads to poor finish. I know for a fact car paint is more Green friendly now but it's not as durable.

As has been stated a number of times, the lobster-claw wrench heads are markedly larger than counterparts from earlier production, or other brands.

There's photographic evidence, posted here on these boards, that confirms the size of the head, both in side-profile and thickness. This definitely has the potential of leading to clearance issues.

It's entirely possible that I'll never run into an application where this would become an issue to me, but I really not all that exuberant about one of my good wrenches being replaced with one of these monstrosities.

As far as finish, if anything, it should be BETTER, since there aren't the environmental/green restrictions on that stuff in it's new manufacturing location.

 

[IMStuner]

As has been stated a number of times, the lobster-claw wrench heads are markedly larger than counterparts from earlier production, or other brands.

There's photographic evidence, posted here on these boards, that confirms the size of the head, both in side-profile and thickness. This definitely has the potential of leading to clearance issues.

It's entirely possible that I'll never run into an application where this would become an issue to me, but I really not all that exuberant about one of my good wrenches being replaced with one of these monstrosities.

As far as finish, if anything, it should be BETTER, since there aren't the environmental/green restrictions on that stuff in it's new manufacturing location.

China might not be that green but I think they are trying to be. No one know wants to sh@t where they sleep, even the Chinese.

Bottom line if you don't like Cman and their ways of doing business don't buy them and support them.

 

[rcurley55]

^^^
What did you want them to say? You are hearing from a basic CSR here. It's not like they can say, "Gee, you're right. I'm going to stop havin the company make tools in China tomorrow. Thank you from bringing this to our attention."

It will take an awful lot of similar type complaints for a change to happen and bring tool manufacturing back to the US. Maybe they can have 2 lines. A home line manufactured in China/ Taiwan/ India and market their professional line to "professionals" or people like us. Tools could be made in the USA but would cost more BUT be of higher quality.

What he said. At this point, there's nothing that can be done to win you (Alamedasam) back. Plus it is a little hard to take such a rant/threat seriously with so many typos

 

[kythri]

Bottom line if you don't like Cman and their ways of doing business don't buy them and support them.

Well, duh.

 

[shoturtle]

China might not be that green but I think they are trying to be. No one know wants to sh@t where they sleep, even the Chinese.

Bottom line if you don't like Cman and their ways of doing business don't buy them and support them.

Allot here just want to bash sears it is a very popular thing to do on GJ. You are fighting a uphill battle when you go against the anti sears forces here.

 

[IMStuner]

You are right shoturtle. I'll have to skip these Sears bashing post.

 

[Rickster]

It's more sad than funny that's what people think about companies that do what they need to do in order to survive--and in the case of sears is not really working. Do you say that about snap on?

You think they're shifting production to survive? They're giving you harbor freight quality for US Craftsman prices. Some bean counters found a way to capitalize on the craftsman name and they're whoring it out for all it's worth. People here may know tool differences but I buy from a lot of garage sales and estate sales and I can tell you first hand that the general home-owner tool-buying population ranks craftsman as top of the line.

 

[shoturtle]

Allot here also think that a someone starting out with a new home should drop 400-600 dollars for a set of wrenches. Or a new kid starting out should drop the same high dollar for the same wrench set for their personal tool kit, even when they are lucking to take home 1500-2000 a month. They totally forget that sears fills a need, and it allows them build the personal took kits for their hobby or home. They have a set of tools with good warranty and are decent quality.

They also think used it the better way to buy "good USA made tool." And forget some might not want to buy warn out tools, or mismatch sets. As it is all personal preference. Some do not want to deal with worn out tools.

But the GJ anti sears and coo mofia totally disregard this. If it is not made in the USA form craftmans and at super discount, they will not buy them. On sale 90 dollars craftsman pros wrench set never sold well, but they will buy pretty much the same craftsman industrial for 60 buck on clearance. All the flag waivers here saying they would pay more for USA made, really do not. They want USA at china prices. That is the real deal with allot of GJ members.

 

[bdamico]

You think they're shifting production to survive? They're giving you harbor freight quality for US Craftsman prices. Some bean counters found a way to capitalize on the craftsman name and they're whoring it out for all it's worth. People here may know tool differences but I buy from a lot of garage sales and estate sales and I can tell you first hand that the general home-owner tool-buying population ranks craftsman as top of the line.

Hahaha. Seriously? Sears is raking in big money these days? Must be all the greedy stockholders watching their stock prices soar through cutting costs, right? Where have you been? You may disagree with their stategic moves (i.e., the strategy of cutting cost vs. raising prices isn't working) but that is something other than greed. Oh and see how profit margin has increased steadily since moving production offshore quarter to quarter? I see your point.

Data for this Date Range
Oct. 31, 2012 -5.62%
July 31, 2012 -1.39%
April 30, 2012 2.04%
Jan. 31, 2012 -19.25%
Oct. 31, 2011 -4.48%
July 31, 2011 -1.44%
April 30, 2011 -1.78%
Jan. 31, 2011 3.00%
Oct. 31, 2010 -2.25%
July 31, 2010 -0.37%
April 30, 2010 0.16%
Jan. 31, 2010 3.42%
Oct. 31, 2009 -1.25%
July 31, 2009 -0.89%
April 30, 2009 0.26%
Jan. 31, 2009 1.43%
Oct. 31, 2008 -1.37%
July 31, 2008 0.55%
April 30, 2008 -0.51%
Jan. 31, 2008 2.83%

 

[Bull]

Personally, I don't like senseless bashing threads. And, I think we do have too much anti-Craftsman stuff on here.

That being said, it's dismissive to refer to every critical thread as "bashing."

I can think of reasons in the following categories for wanting to buy USA tools: political; economic; environmental; humanitarian; qualitative.

And so, a company swapping out a couple lifetimes of a USA-reputation is going to be received critically by some folks. It makes sense, and Sears needs to take the good with the bad for whatever decisions their executive structure makes.

 

[itguy08]

As has been stated a number of times, the lobster-claw wrench heads are markedly larger than counterparts from earlier production, or other brands.

There's photographic evidence, posted here on these boards, that confirms the size of the head, both in side-profile and thickness. This definitely has the potential of leading to clearance issues.

And we all know this is from "Inferior steel" how? Could be that they found they were getting more warranty returns and decided to beef it up a little to see if warranty returns stop.

Personally I'll buy CM if it's Made in the USA as I feel a premium is worth that. If not, it's HF or wherever for me for less $$.

 

[Fastbird]

I'll continue to purchase craftsman in whatever I can find still made in USA. Something I need that I can't find CM USA.....I'll go elsewhere.

I will say that I do have a set of CM stuff that's not USA. The Maxx Access 50 something piece set. And I have to say that they are VERY nice.

 

[Conductor562]

Personally, I don't like senseless bashing threads. And, I think we do have too much anti-Craftsman stuff on here.

That being said, it's dismissive to refer to every critical thread as "bashing."

I can think of reasons in the following categories for wanting to buy USA tools: political; economic; environmental; humanitarian; qualitative.

And so, a company swapping out a couple lifetimes of a USA-reputation is going to be received critically by some folks. It makes sense, and Sears needs to take the good with the bad for whatever decisions their executive structure makes.

Craftsman hand tools had that "American as apple pie" image. It's like when Dallas fired Tom Landry or when Barney left Mayberry. Even if it was justified, and even if you wanted to understand, that **** just wasn't going to be accepted regardless.

 

[kythri]

But the GJ anti sears and coo mofia totally disregard this. If it is not made in the USA form craftmans and at super discount, they will not buy them. On sale 90 dollars craftsman pros wrench set never sold well, but they will buy pretty much the same craftsman industrial for 60 buck on clearance. All the flag waivers here saying they would pay more for USA made, really do not. They want USA at china prices. That is the real deal with allot of GJ members.

Thing is, a lot of the same crowd bashing Sears/Craftsman now are just shifting the reason they bashed Sears.

Prior to the COO debacle, when the tools were US-made, and selling at prices significantly less than SK/Wright/Armstrong, then it was all about open-ended wrench jaws spreading, or raised panels hurting delicate Dove-washed fingers, or how everything was made from sintered metal (which was demonstrably false, but that never stopped individuals from continuing to push that little agenda).

There was always some excuse used to slam them - poor customer service in the store, or the minimum-wage employee not knowing some esoteric bit of 15th-century woodworking or 7th-century hide-tanning, or an occasional online order being screwed up, or outsourced telephone customer service (like 90% of businesses today) or, my personal favorite, not being willing to ship orders to Australia (no, I'm not joking about this particular excuse).

As I've stated before, the whole "Chinese tools for USA prices" screed is a gigantic fallacy, but at the same time, when equal-quality or better import tools can be had for better prices, there's definitely an issue there (past my own issues with the design of the wrenches, etc.).