Show Off Your Antique Ratchet

[Jazz1]

Nice rat! (I think you mean the pressed steel jobbie on the left, though, not in the centre, which is a Gray-Bonney era clone.) I have a similar ratchet or quite possibly the same ratchet but marked a little differently, in a very early Gray socket set, with an original 1922 Gray logo on the lid. Photo of rat below. Photos of entire set linked here.

The GRAY in centre is stamped GRAY 1497…you can see stamp in pic,,pressed steel also GRAY.Far right is HUSKY

 

[Oldtuleguy]

The ratchet in center is the one lugz is referring to as newer. Which it it is. Looks like a bonney 4097, which popped up in 30s

 

[Private Lugnutz]

The GRAY in centre is stamped GRAY 1497

I didn't say it wasn't a Gray; I said it wasn't an antique.

you can see stamp in pic,

Yes, I can, but I knew it was from the Gray-Bonney era just by looking at it.

If you're not familiar with the history, Bonney bailed Gray out at the start of the Great Depression. Gray-Bonney Tool Company, Ltd. was organized in 1933. It was a second, separate business entity for Bonney Forge and Tool Works. Bonney was making and selling their own tools that entire time. The Gray-Bonney tools were made in Canada at the former Gray plant using Bonney designs, dies, and capital. Most of the tools and boxes were only stamped Gray, some were stamped both, and the catalogs were always Gray-Bonney. If you page through them, it's like you're paging through a Bonney cat. The partnership was dissolved in 1961, Gray was expressing their appreciation for keeping Gray going as late as the 80's in catalogs, and their website history still alludes to that gratitude.

The point with respect to your post is that the ratchet in the center cannot be any older than 1933, and that ratchet looks much newer than that to me.

You were misinformed.

The good news is that the ratchet on the left is immediately recognizable as older, and, as I said, I have one, directing you to a post where you can see its provenance, a provenance I believe yours shares. So, congrats on owning an antique Gray.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@Jazz1
Bonney introduced that style ratchet to its own line in 1934. I did a little digging around in the cats on IA/ITCL* to see when it may have made its way to the Great White North and into the Gray-Bonney line. On page 8 of the Gray-Bonney 1939 catalog, linked here, the 1497 ratchet depicted in the 1/2-inch drive set is still the older Bonney model. On page 7 of the Gray-Bonney 1946 catalog, linked here, the 1497 depicted is the newer model, which you have. So, it was introduced by Bonney to Gray-Bonney sometime between 1939 and 1946.

 

[3baygarage]

Am I the only one who’s surprised you were able to get a rebuild for that? I wonder how long they had the repair kit.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Here is another Billings Spencer product. This swivel head Allen wrench rachet was produced by B&S and actuall sold with a B&S socket set. 1919-1920

So here are some more photos of an Allen set that walked into my shop today. I’m not going to lie, I’m jealous. The box was awesome

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Here's some insight...., I WANT ONE!

No, seriously, I have never seen that before. Systems with male drive tangs are unusual to begin with. I have a few (early Herbrand, Eastern Machine Screw, CM&D, and SWF from Germany) that tickle my excess pride, but that is a really cool set. It's interesting that the mfgr machined the square tang down to round on the very end. Also, those 8-point openings almost look like Wright's famous 10-point openings, which they attempted to say would fit both hex and square fasteners. I think it's just the way the points are not symmetrical.

Ok I’m pretty confident I have found the maker. I’m investigating further but it looks pretty close

 

[calimander]

Early Cornwall 3/8 fine tooth rachet

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Ok I’m pretty confident I have found the maker.

I think you nailed it. Interesting that it's another machine screw company, like Eastern, who, as we know, also dabbled in early socket sets, also male drive tang.

What's the book?

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I think you nailed it. Interesting that it's another machine screw company, like Eastern, who, as we know, also dabbled in early socket sets, also male drive tang.

What's the book?

So the first thing I did was go on Facebook marketplace with Springfield mass. As my location and guess what I found. What appears to be an original socket set

 

[Cruzan80]

So the first thing I did was go on Facebook marketplace with Springfield mass. As my location and guess what I found. What appears to be an original socket set

Just now, for a second set? Incredible!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

What appears to be an original socket set

Just now, for a second set? Incredible!

Agreed, amazing.

When you buy it, I respectfully recommend that you start a thread for Springfield Machine Screw Socket Wrench Sets, include photos of all the pieces in both your sets, and as much background information as you can find. It would be buried here in the middle of a thread on antique ratchets, in general, and buried even worse a year or two from now. As you've gotten more of the lay of the land around here, hopefully with the help of a top down view of all the forums, especially the Vintage Tool Discussion forum, and if you've scrolled through the Sticky, which is not subject to the chronological oppression of the forum page 1, you'll see that most threads fall into two categories: types of tools (e.g., DOE wrenches, taps and dies, midget socket sets, ratchets, and, more recently, this more qualified 'antique ratchets' thread), and brands (e.g., Snap-on, Blackhawk, etc). As you can see, many of the antique ratchets being posted are part of antique socket sets (e.g., Mossberg, Allen, Eastern Machine, Syracuse, etc) that already have their own thread. For continuity of discussion and for easier finding later, Springfield should have its own thread.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@Patrick Eubanks
What book are you showing as a reference in post #127?

 

[Oldtuleguy]

the Gray in centre I found 20 years ago all rusted. It’s 1920 vintage. Local GRAY supplier informed me of its age when he supplied me with rebuild kit

Here's a bonney version

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

I think you nailed it. Interesting that it's another machine screw company, like Eastern, who, as we know, also dabbled in early socket sets, also male drive tang.

What's the book?

American Wrench Makers by Kenneth L. Cope. I highly recommend it

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Ok guys I need your help. Mossberg Rachet that I have never seen

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Agreed, amazing.

When you buy it, I respectfully recommend that you start a thread for Springfield Machine Screw Socket Wrench Sets, include photos of all the pieces in both your sets, and as much background information as you can find. It would be buried here in the middle of a thread on antique ratchets, in general, and buried even worse a year or two from now. As you've gotten more of the lay of the land around here, hopefully with the help of a top down view of all the forums, especially the Vintage Tool Discussion forum, and if you've scrolled through the Sticky, which is not subject to the chronological oppression of the forum page 1, you'll see that most threads fall into two categories: types of tools (e.g., DOE wrenches, taps and dies, midget socket sets, ratchets, and, more recently, this more qualified 'antique ratchets' thread), and brands (e.g., Snap-on, Blackhawk, etc). As you can see, many of the antique ratchets being posted are part of antique socket sets (e.g., Mossberg, Allen, Eastern Machine, Syracuse, etc) that already have their own thread. For continuity of discussion and for easier finding later, Springfield should have its own thread.

I will certainly try

 

[AntiqueBen]

Ok guys I need your help. Mossberg Rachet that I have never seen

Interesting ratchet. According to AA, they haven't found a catalog reference for it yet.

 

[elidas]

Good to hear from you. Looking forward to seeing your finds when you're a little fatter.

I'm definitely fatter after the last few weeks!! I haven't seen much out in the wild lately. I have cut down quite a bit. I have multiple collections (like most of us) and started to get a little overwhelmed. I've always been more of a volume collector than someone that needs the best of the best. Thats how you end up with over 300 vintage lawn mowers ( I have a version of the first power walk behind -teens-,first electric-1923- and the first rotory-1929, hundreds of toasters,waffle irons,mixers,coffeemakers ,23 roll cabs and chests full of tools. Not all vintage, I did work as a mechanic for 50 years. I also have a 1972 IH Scout that I've toured the country with. 40 States so far.

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Here is a neat one. Greene tweed rachet and socket set. All cast and extremely durable. The only advertisement for this set that I have been able to find is 1903. It’s truly reversible and still operates smooth as silk after 100 years. In the ad no box was shown or mentioned. Check out alloy artifacts to see the super cool ad.

 

[RTM]

Greene tweed rachet and socket set. .... The only advertisement for this set that I have been able to find is 1903. I

More stuff in google books

greene tweed ratchet - Google Search

 

[four.cycle]

1892 Iron Age Greene Tweed & Co. Favorite Wrench pp 699
1910 Machinery Greene Tweed & Co. ad pp 96

1920 Seattle Hardware Co. catalog Greene Tweed & Co. Favorite ad pp 185

1928 Sterling Hardware Co. catalog Keystone Dayton Greene Tweed & Co Favorite wrench ad pp 134

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

1892 Iron Age Greene Tweed & Co. Favorite Wrench pp 699
1910 Machinery Greene Tweed & Co. ad pp 96

1920 Seattle Hardware Co. catalog Greene Tweed & Co. Favorite ad pp 185

1928 Sterling Hardware Co. catalog Keystone Dayton Greene Tweed & Co Favorite wrench ad pp 134

Oh my gosh thanks so much for bird dogging these. That helps so much. I need that box now

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

Nice Wizard. Here is one I haven't posted yet with a 1908 patent date. If I remember correctly, back when I looked this up, the patent date was wrong. It was off by one digit or something. That's been a while ago so I can't remember the manufacturer on this one. It's very unique in that it uses a collar to change direction, a lot like my early Contal ratchet. I believe it also had its own specific sockets made to only fit it specifically. Anyone have any ideas??

So I am captivated by this rachet. I have googled this thing and am not finding much except 1908. What else do you know about it

 

[AntiqueBen]

So I am captivated by this rachet. I have googled this thing and am not finding much except 1908. What else do you know about it

It's made by Victor Carlson in 1908. I found the patent on DATAMP. They have some good pics on what the set looks like. Pretty unique sockets.

US Patent: 897,584 - Wrench

US patent 897,584 Wrench was issued to Victor Carlson of Peoria, IL. It was granted on 09/01/1908. An inclined surface on the adjusting ring retracts one or the other of two spring-loaded ratchet slides. Each of the slides engages a set of ratchet t

www.datamp.org

 

[four.cycle]

I have nothing on "U.S. Ratchet Wrench Company" other than a couple screen shots from ebay listings.
U.S. Ratchet / U.S. Ratchet Wrench Co., 215 No. Adams St., Peoria, IL / ratchet wrench / patent 897584 Sep 1 1908 Victor Carlson / * some units appear to be stamped with date of 3 7 08 * /

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

It's made by Victor Carlson in 1908. I found the patent on DATAMP. They have some good pics on what the set looks like. Pretty unique sockets.

US Patent: 897,584 - Wrench

US patent 897,584 Wrench was issued to Victor Carlson of Peoria, IL. It was granted on 09/01/1908. An inclined surface on the adjusting ring retracts one or the other of two spring-loaded ratchet slides. Each of the slides engages a set of ratchet t

www.datamp.org

 

[AntiqueBen]

I have nothing on "U.S. Ratchet Wrench Company" other than a couple screen shots from ebay listings.
U.S. Ratchet / U.S. Ratchet Wrench Co., 215 No. Adams St., Peoria, IL / ratchet wrench / patent 897584 Sep 1 1908 Victor Carlson / * some units appear to be stamped with date of 3 7 08 * /

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

It has to be one of the coolest I’ve seen

 

[AntiqueBen]

It has to be one of the coolest I’ve seen

I only found the ratchet but I would have liked to have found some sockets too. I guess it reminds me of my Contal ratchet because of the collar. The Contal collar you move up or down on the shaft to change direction. The Carlson collar you actually twist until it locks into position to change direction. The other oddity about the Carlson ratchet is how heavy it is. It's definitely a boat anchor. Below is a few more pics.

 

[AntiqueBen]

It's fascinating how the mechanism works to change directions on this Carlson ratchet. Hope this link works to video & you can see how it works.

New video · Saturday, Jan 6, 2024 🎬

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

It's fascinating how the mechanism works to change directions on this Carlson ratchet. Hope this link works to video & you can see how it works.

New video · Saturday, Jan 6, 2024 🎬

Tap to view!

photos.app.goo.gl

Worked great. It’s very nice. I have never seen the rachet or any of the sockets pictured. Super cool

 

[AntiqueBen]

Worked great. It’s very nice. I have never seen the rachet or any of the sockets pictured. Super cool

After a little searching online, I found a few ads for the U.S. Ratchet Wrench Co. The one ad says it "makes working on your own car a pleasure."

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

After a little searching online, I found a few ads for the U.S. Ratchet Wrench Co. The one ad says it "makes working on your own car a pleasure."

We have to find these sockets. I would love to see how it all works together

 

[AntiqueBen]

We have to find these sockets. I would love to see how it all works together

I've been looking, but I fear they are going to be impossible to find.

 

[AntiqueBen]

Anyone have any thoughts on what the heck this thing is??

 

[Patrick Eubanks]

“ L Auto Cle” set. Slight differences from US version. Box is much nicer. The sockets appear to have a different pitch on the neck body transition. I had heard that many thought mossberg was the manufacturer for these sets. The rachet appears to be the same but the sockets are different. Shorter to by about 1/8” or so. None of the sockets are marked

 

[AntiqueBen]

“ L Auto Cle” set. Slight differences from US version. Box is much nicer. The sockets appear to have a different pitch on the neck body transition. I had heard that many thought mossberg was the manufacturer for these sets. The rachet appears to be the same but the sockets are different. Shorter to by about 1/8” or so. None of the sockets are marked

Nice set Patrick! I found my Auto-Cle set about a year ago in England. Contal & his design for this ratchet & set never get the credit it deserves. Contal was a brilliant guy & played a major contribution to the automobile industry as many followed in his footsteps after him to perfect the ratchet & sockets. The sockets in this set are never marked. The ratchet is so unique. It could be considered the "Father" of all ratchets that were meant for sockets. It's unmistakable when you see it. Nice to see the brass Auto-Cle badge on the box. These are next to impossible to find. I looked for years before I found mine.
Nice find my friend