Show off your DOE's!

[Private Lugnutz]

The Auto-Kit combination wrench is part of a set made by J.P. Danielson. There's a thread for those type of wrenches.

The double panel shank SAE/Metric wrench is Bridgeport Hardware and Manufacturing (BHM). They are the earliest American mfgr to make a wrench at least explicitly marketed toward metric applications (the size conversion is somewhat sloppier than modern metric wrenches) that I have been able to find, and they did it in the 1950's, astonishingly, way before Beatlemania, er, I mean way before the other English invasion. (EDIT: To be more historically accurate, 'The Great Metric Conversion' of the 70's wasn't so much an invasion as a capitulation, after Great Britain - at that time perhaps the world’s most anti-metric nation, begrudgingly dumped its beloved Imperial system, and we followed suit. In truth, the writing - in increments of 10 - was already on the wall AND on quite a few pegboards.)

 

[Jp267]

The Auto-Kit combination wrench is part of a set made by J.P. Danielson. There's a thread for those type of wrenches.

The double panel shank SAE/Metric wrench is Bridgeport Hardware and Manufacturing (BHM). They are the earliest American mfgr to make a wrench at least explicitly marketed toward metric applications (the size conversion is somewhat sloppier than modern metric wrenches) that I have been able to find, and they did it in the 1950's, astonishingly, way before Beatlemania, er, I mean way before the other English invasion. (EDIT: To be more historically accurate, 'The Great Metric Conversion' of the 70's wasn't so much an invasion as a capitulation, after Great Britain - at that time perhaps the world’s most anti-metric nation, begrudgingly dumped its beloved Imperial system, and we followed suit. In truth, the writing - in increments of 10 - was already on the wall AND on quite a few pegboards.)

Oh awesome thanks for Identifying it and the history. Super interesting!![emoji106] [emoji106] [emoji2] I just love learning about all of this. I love industrial history so I guess it makes sense. I've made a few donations to the Museum of industrial history that's being built in Allentown, PA.

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[Private Lugnutz]

I've made a few donations to the Museum of industrial history that's being built in Allentown, PA.

Cue the Billy Joel song and its smelting, forging, casting, machining noises backbeat for the soundtrack!

 

[Jp267]

Cue the Billy Joel song and its smelting, forging, casting, machining noises backbeat for the soundtrack!

Lol I couldn't think of a better place to locate this type of museum!

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[Ole Slewfoot]

Pretty sure its Penncraft

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they are probably the same thing, at least some of the time.

 

[Provincial]

My oldest Plomb, a 078 7/16x1/2 marked 8B, which should have been made in February, 1928. I found this earlier this month at a local flea market.

 

[Sam'sAutoParts]

Edit: the mystery was already solved! I just don't read so good.

 

[Sam'sAutoParts]

Pretty sure its Penncraft



View media item 74801

There it is, NBM made Penncraft, Husky and Sparta also used those same style wrenches and they were stamped to order at NBM Per MShaw's recollection when he worked there.

 

[Username already in use]

Possibly, but Sparta and Husky and possibly other NBM brands used a RP design like that. Later on it was a squared panel.

Now I just need a picture to prove or disprove my self. Lol.

Yeah, I think you're right. There's a Husky wrench on the previous page posted HERE. Looks spot on.

 

[LesserSon]

the Museum of industrial history that's being built in Allentown, PA.

Located in Bethlehem, PA. Unless they're moving, like the DaVinci Center did. The America On Wheels museum is in Allentown, and I felt after visiting that automotive tools were hugely underrepresented.
Your Bridgeport wrench (which Lug identified) is a "Pyramid." If it had offsets, it would be a "Hy-Bar."
I'm not sure why finding metric sizes on American-made tools surprises. The idea for a decimal metric system dates back to the 1670s. Thomas Jefferson advocated an American decimal system at about the same time (1790s) France was actually adopting one. Congress authorized the use of the metric system in 1866. American signed the Treaty of the Metre in 1875, and our customary units have been defined by conversion from the metric units since 1893. Millions of private US citizens petitioned Congress to require adoption in the 1920s. The real surprise is that nearly a century later, we still fail to teach our children the units pediatricians use to measure their height, weight, temperature, hydration, respiration, and digestion.
The unfamiliar certainly does turn some people off. Hence this offset Hy-Bar that some PO managed to flatten, thereby weakening it.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm not sure why finding metric sizes on American-made tools surprises.

It's not at all surprising on modern tools. But it registers a kind of anachronistic shock to the system to see it on an engineers wrench made in the 1950's, because the overwhelming majority of fasteners, especially in the automotive field, were still Imperial/S.A.E. sizing. Ditto for the 60's and into the 70's. The first time I saw one of those BHM wrenches I though it was some kind of contemporarily made retro throwback. It wasn't until foreign cars went from being exotic imports to large volume imports and then routinely built in plants here that the metric system took hold in automotive tools. The only other vintage tools I have ever seen with metric sizing were late 1940's era reamers made by the Cleveland Twist Drill Company. Despite the long illustrious history and merits of the metric system, the fact is that it did not take hold in any meaningful way in Great Britain or the US until the forced Metrification efforts of the 1970's, and to this day the Imperial system still persists in many fields in both countries.

 

[Jp267]

Located in Bethlehem, PA. Unless they're moving, like the DaVinci Center did. The America On Wheels museum is in Allentown, and I felt after visiting that automotive tools were hugely underrepresented.
Your Bridgeport wrench (which Lug identified) is a "Pyramid." If it had offsets, it would be a "Hy-Bar."
I'm not sure why finding metric sizes on American-made tools surprises. The idea for a decimal metric system dates back to the 1670s. Thomas Jefferson advocated an American decimal system at about the same time (1790s) France was actually adopting one. Congress authorized the use of the metric system in 1866. American signed the Treaty of the Metre in 1875, and our customary units have been defined by conversion from the metric units since 1893. Millions of private US citizens petitioned Congress to require adoption in the 1920s. The real surprise is that nearly a century later, we still fail to teach our children the units pediatricians use to measure their height, weight, temperature, hydration, respiration, and digestion.
The unfamiliar certainly does turn some people off. Hence this offset Hy-Bar that some PO managed to flatten, thereby weakening it.

Sorry you're correct, Bethlehem. My mistake.

After your explanation, it's not surprising to see metric, on these vintage wrenches. However, prior to inheriting these tools, I had little exposure to vintage tools. So in that regard, I guess that's why, I found it surprising. I just didn't think it through because I had no reason to. If that makes sense. [emoji3]

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[Jp267]

It's not at all surprising on modern tools. But it registers a kind of anachronistic shock to the system to see it on an engineers wrench made in the 1950's, because the overwhelming majority of fasteners, especially in the automotive field, were still Imperial/S.A.E. sizing. Ditto for the 60's and into the 70's. The first time I saw one of those BHM wrenches I though it was some kind of contemporarily made retro throwback. It wasn't until foreign cars went from being exotic imports to large volume imports and then routinely built in plants here that the metric system took hold in automotive tools. The only other vintage tools I have ever seen with metric sizing were late 1940's era reamers made by the Cleveland Twist Drill Company. Despite the long illustrious history and merits of the metric system, the fact is that it did not take hold in any meaningful way in Great Britain or the US until the forced Metrification efforts of the 1970's, and to this day the Imperial system still persists in many fields in both countries.

Well explained and I guess that was my thinking as well!

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[Jp267]

There it is, NBM made Penncraft, Husky and Sparta also used those same style wrenches and they were stamped to order at NBM Per MShaw's recollection when he worked there.

Yeah it does look pretty spot on with the Husky. Very interesting! Thanks!

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[LesserSon]

Yes, I see what you mean. The tools were marketed in USA, where application was limited.
But there they are. So why?
Maybe Bridgeport, seeking to expand its market share, tried distinguishing its products from the crowd in this way. Or maybe they intended to export. Or... well, I'd like to find out.

 

[Rileysan]

It's been awhile since I made a contribution to this thread, and since I just acquired a partial set of these, I thought I'd show off my Craftsman =V= DOE set in a period-correct wrench tray. I only need the 1 1/16" x 1 1/8" =V= wrench to complete the set (I have a newer -V- wrench).

Brian

 

[Jp267]

It's been awhile since I made a contribution to this thread, and since I just acquired a partial set of these, I thought I'd show off my Craftsman =V= DOE set in a period-correct wrench tray. I only need the 1 1/16" x 1 1/8" =V= wrench to complete the set (I have a newer -V- wrench).

Brian

That wrench tray is awesome! The wrenches aren't too bad either.[emoji1]

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[Private Lugnutz]

Very nice, Brian!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Yes, I see what you mean. The tools were marketed in USA, where application was limited.
But there they are. So why?
Maybe Bridgeport, seeking to expand its market share, tried distinguishing its products from the crowd in this way. Or maybe they intended to export. Or... well, I'd like to find out.

'Zackly, LesserSon! That was pretty close to my first reaction when I first discussed the wrench here on GJ. BHM was clearly ahead of their time - and of everyone else when they made these, which makes the wrenches special, and BHM prescient. My surprise is definitely one of admiration, not admonition.

(EDIT: Turning to one of if not thee most popular US tool mfgr for a better sense of a benchmark - the first year that Snap-On ever advertised the production of wrenches made and marked in metric sizes was.... drum roll, please....1978!)

I have a full set of them (Set No. 25, plated finish) in an original BHM wrench set clip.

Here they are pictured with an older Vlchek FITZ-ALL No. 2045 set with Vlchek’s rust-proof “Velco” (cadmium) finish.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

LesserSon,

One quick addendum/correction. BHM actually made and marketed these as early as 1940. I had forgotten that I had this conversation with someone else here before, and had backtracked it even further than the 1953 catalog to the 1940 catalog. Note that they were also available as special order in Whitworth sizes. This leads me to believe they were clearly aiming them at both a domestic and a European market.

 

[LesserSon]

Nice examples, Lug. I see the wrenches here and there, but rarely in those dandy holders.
Same with the C'man, Rileysan. I've only seen that holder on eBay.

 

[Jp267]

LesserSon,

One quick addendum/correction. BHM actually made and marketed these as early as 1940. I had forgotten that I had this conversation with someone else here before, and had backtracked it even further than the 1953 catalog to the 1940 catalog. Note that they were also available as special order in Whitworth sizes. This leads me to believe they were clearly aiming them at both a domestic and a European market.

Very cool! Thanks for posting all of those pics and for the history lesson. Really interesting!

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[Private Lugnutz]

(EDIT: Turning to one of if not thee most popular US tool mfgr for a better sense of a benchmark - the first year that Snap-On ever advertised the production of wrenches made and marked in metric sizes was.... drum roll, please....1978!)

In case anyone else is as intrigued by this subject as me, Sears & Roebuck was ahead of Snap-On by ten years, offering a small number and variety of DOE, DBE, and 1/2-inch and 1/4-inch socket wrench tools in their 1964 catalog. A half of a page out of ten (10) pages of wrenches. One whole page in the 1968. As time permits, I may poke around in a few other Mfgrs' catalogs to see if I can find the curve. I am guessing 1973-ish.

You'd think I'd remember, since I was in High School at the time, but for some strange reason it's all a blur.

 

[d42jeep]

Here is a Dunlap 13/16" X 7/8" DOE wrench made by Lectrolite that I recently picked up.
-Don

 

[LesserSon]

In case anyone else is as intrigued by this subject as me, Sears & Roebuck was ahead of Snap-On by ten years, offering a small number and variety of DOE, DBE, and 1/2-inch and 1/4-inch socket wrench tools in their 1964 catalog. A half of a page out of ten (10) pages of wrenches. One whole page in the 1968. As time permits, I may poke around in a few other Mfgrs' catalogs to see if I can find the curve. I am guessing 1973-ish.

You'd think I'd remember, since I was in High School at the time, but for some strange reason it's all a blur.

I was just looking more carefully through the 1953 Bridgeport catalog for clues about the metric markings. Noticed two things. Not just DOE, but also box wrench, nut driver and spark plug wrench openings are given in both inches and millimeters. The other is the display stand shown on p40 is captioned, “For export, the display stand is also supplied in Spanish.” (Chile had adopted metric in 1848, Spain and Mexico in 1852.) This shows that Bridgeport DID export, at least to Spanish-language markets.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Very progressive! Cleveland Twist Drill was the same story. They had offices in Europe.

 

[bulwnkle]

"The Beast" I guess this is the wrench version of the BFH. It's in pretty rough shape and I haven't been able to uncover a a name on it, just T and 49. The ends are 2 1/4 and 2 1/2.

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[Private Lugnutz]

Nice find, Bullwinkle! Did you measure the ends? Or are they marked? Reason I ask is, if "49" is the Industry Standard Number (and I have a good reason to believe that it is*), the milled openings should be 2-3/16" x 2-3/8".

* The ISN forged into the shank near one head like that is a Williams characteristic.

 

[bulwnkle]

Nice find, Bullwinkle! Did you measure the ends? Or are they marked? Reason I ask is, if "49" is the Industry Standard Number (and I have a good reason to believe that it is*), the milled openings should be 2-3/16" x 2-3/8".

* The ISN forged into the shank near one head like that is a Williams characteristic.

Ok the coffee has kicked in and when remeasured 2 3/16 and 2 3/8 Is correct.

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[Private Lugnutz]

Sweet. Likely Williams. Looks like there may have been a marking on the one face you're showing, now obscured by pitting and deterioration. The face nearest to the 49 is where the logo would be.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Going from big *** to teeny, here's one I don’t think I’ve ever shown before. I found it at the bottom of a toolbox at a flea market a few years ago. It’s marked EDISON-T NO. 25194, only faintly visible, because the entire wrench has unfortunately been machined down on that side.

View media item 74895
View media item 74897
The faces are not marked with sizes but the milled openings are 1/4” x 5/16”. It was originally used in one of Edison’s industrial R&D labs (chemistry, physics, metallurgy, etc) in West Orange, NJ, which closed soon after he died in 1931. The West Orange campus was huge – 100 employees, several buildings – including a machine shop. The machines are still in place, by the way, in what is now a National Historic Park well worth visiting.

I just posted it on the Bonney thread because of the forged-in marking on the flip side. That is a Bonney date code ("GV", July 1930).

View media item 74896

 

[d42jeep]

Lugz,
That wrench is a cool keepsake. You are lucky to have found it. With the recent discussion about the dual marked Bridgeport DOE wrenches, I took a couple pictures of the one I picked up yesterday.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Here is the first Tomahawk DOE that I've run across. Username has several and they seem to have been made by Barcalo but the brand was sold by Walden Worcester. Here are pictures of my recent find followed by Username's comparison shots.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked up an interesting Herbrand 1723 today.

As you may or may not know, Herbrand was fond of marking its wartime tools with an AISI steel composition number, as if to declare their compliance with alloy restrictions. A lot of their tools were made with “New Emergency” steels (AISI 86XX, 87XX), but many were also made with a Manganese (AISI 134X) alloy.

Down below are some thumdnails of a 1/2-inch drive ratchet with a “1340” forged into the flip side beam, and some DOEs with a “1348” forged into the shank.

And here is a DOE I found today with a “1340” on it. But it almost looks like it was patched on, or forged in as a patch after the wrench was forged. I have never seen one like this before.

View media item 75321
View media item 75322

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Uh-oh, the dreaded two posts in a row without any replies in between...

It usually takes something special for me to pick up a DOE wrench that isn't from WWII. These two are good examples.

I've seen these "Snail Brand" (love the logo!) wrenches posted here before, typically with MADE IN ENGLAND forged into the flip side. This one has COLCHESTER LATHE CO LTD. I am guessing that it was made by Snail for Colchester. They go back to 1837 and are still in business! Check it out here. Maybe one of our mates from the UK will fill us in even more.

I like the old S.A.E. bolt, U.S.S. bolt, and hex cap screw size markings on the wrench faces. I leave a lot of them behind, but this "S" wrench was just too neat to not bring home. Might be common for all I know, but I liked it.

 

[Slackmaster G]

Why no love for the old curved doe?

 

[Slackmaster G]

Curved does

 

[LesserSon]

Penens 5/16x1/4 J99

 

[d42jeep]

I found these Craftsman #1 tappet wrenches on Thursday. I'm not sure why the gentleman had two of them. 17/32" X 7/16" seems like a bit of an odd size. I also found the Action wrenches at an estate sale yesterday.
-Don

 

[Private Lugnutz]

They came in pairs, Don. Two of each size in a set. Not sure why they didn't reverse the heads though, like ignition wrenches, so you could have two angles for each size opening. Have to picture a flathead and think about making left and right tappet adjustments to see if that makes sense though. Maybe not. Where's my second cup of coffee?

EDIT: That size did have a letter suffix on the end of the model number for a more typical 7/16 x 1/2 with most mfgrs, I have found. Not sure why, but I'm into them pretty heavy lately. Have a full set of Bonney and Crafty now. Working on Herbrand and Vlchek.