Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
It is. Same length, same milled openings. And it only makes sense to use the same supplier for multiple types of wrenches, if they made them. So I'd say Wakefield is a good bet for the OEM. Thanks!
Show off your DOE's!
- Thread starter Outlawmws
- Start date
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Is that verbatim? Or a simple mistake on your part? Because note (and it is easy to miss due to the commonalty of the more recognizable term) that mine are stamped MOTO(no R)CYCLES. EDIT: I haven't researched it yet, but if they're legit, and I have no reason to think they're not, I suspect it was an early term in the nascent days of the industry.
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twertsy
Well-known member
It is. I've seen a ton of early trademarks use that term, without the R
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Thanks.
Nice finds on those Indian's Lugz!
Here is an odd one: "ROME VANADIUM"
It has a Forged CV (Chrome Vanadium?) inside a circle. SAE 7/6 (5/8) on one end, SAE 1/2 (3/4). Secondary markings roll of the edge of the back. Pat. App. For on the back of the 7/16 end, and 2729...
Pics of the wrench:
And a Metric Blue Point: 8 X 10 MM
Here is an odd one: "ROME VANADIUM"
It has a Forged CV (Chrome Vanadium?) inside a circle. SAE 7/6 (5/8) on one end, SAE 1/2 (3/4). Secondary markings roll of the edge of the back. Pat. App. For on the back of the 7/16 end, and 2729...
Pics of the wrench:
And a Metric Blue Point: 8 X 10 MM
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Somebody had A LOT of grinding and finishing fun with a Bonney 2729 Right-Angle Wrench, Outlaw. They even grinded or filed the "CH" off of the "CHROME." Maybe the joke was supposed to be that this was what the Italianate sculpture version of the wrench would look like! 
EDIT: The "secondary markings" on the faces are (or rather were) probably (HEX) CAP screw sizes, which were typically found under the SAE bolt sizes on these Bonney wrenches in the 1930's.
EDIT: See thumbnail.
EDIT: The "secondary markings" on the faces are (or rather were) probably (HEX) CAP screw sizes, which were typically found under the SAE bolt sizes on these Bonney wrenches in the 1930's.
EDIT: See thumbnail.
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four.cycle
Well-known member
you can tell how closely I was paying attention there... these aren't mine but they should answer your question:
those actually aren't all that uncommon - I've seen quite a few of them listed on Ebay.
the DATAMP page for the patent on that particular wrench mentions that many of them were stamped "Indian Motocycles".
those actually aren't all that uncommon - I've seen quite a few of them listed on Ebay.
the DATAMP page for the patent on that particular wrench mentions that many of them were stamped "Indian Motocycles".
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Thanks, BK. I'll have to keep an eye peeled at the flea markets! It would be a nice complement to the pair of wrenches.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Coincidentally, on the same day that John Wakefield was issued the patent for that bicycle wrench, Thomas H. Brosnihan of Brosnihan Wrench Co. (also of Worcester, Ma.) was issued patent 657391 for his "hardened, pipe-gripping jaw faces". Something to keep in mind should you ever find yourself being queried about early pipe wrenches by Alex Trebek.
[quote='DATAMP.org, on their page for patent 657326 issued Sept. 04, 1900 to John Wakefield for his 'bicycle wrench' cited in post #572 above"]The 'sleeve' forming most of the handle is a major component of the patent. The wrench is a 'bicycle' or pocket wrench with smooth edges so as to not snag clothing. This wrench was distributed by several early motorcycle manufacturers, and examples marked 'INDIAN MOTOCYCLES' or 'FLYING MERKEL' in addition to the normal manufacturer's markings can be prized collectibles.[/quote]
I've seen lots of examples of the "Indian Motocycles" Wakefield-made bicycle wrenches (as well as other Wakefield-made bicycle wrenches stamped for other companies) listed on Ebay, but the idea of one marked "Flying Merkel" I find particularly intriguing. Maybe it's just because it makes me think of this beauty:
[quote='DATAMP.org, on their page for patent 657326 issued Sept. 04, 1900 to John Wakefield for his 'bicycle wrench' cited in post #572 above"]The 'sleeve' forming most of the handle is a major component of the patent. The wrench is a 'bicycle' or pocket wrench with smooth edges so as to not snag clothing. This wrench was distributed by several early motorcycle manufacturers, and examples marked 'INDIAN MOTOCYCLES' or 'FLYING MERKEL' in addition to the normal manufacturer's markings can be prized collectibles.[/quote]
I've seen lots of examples of the "Indian Motocycles" Wakefield-made bicycle wrenches (as well as other Wakefield-made bicycle wrenches stamped for other companies) listed on Ebay, but the idea of one marked "Flying Merkel" I find particularly intriguing. Maybe it's just because it makes me think of this beauty:
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d42jeep
Well-known member
Does it actually retain the “ium” or does it say “rome vanad” - I can’t tell. Were the letters lost as a consequence of tapering the shank, or purposely removed to change the spelling? Is there a town called Rome in your region, Outlaw?
It seems like a lot of modification just for a lark. I think it may have been altered to fit into a very restrictive space (between two posts?) for adjusting something (because so much of the shank has been cut away the torque would have to be very low) a quarter-turn (the tapered shank might just allow that much swing). It makes me think of the tight areas of clocks and musical instruments, maybe the housing of a pump, valve, or other equipment for timing, tension, or flow rate.
My guess is a one-off user mod for a very specific application.
It seems like a lot of modification just for a lark. I think it may have been altered to fit into a very restrictive space (between two posts?) for adjusting something (because so much of the shank has been cut away the torque would have to be very low) a quarter-turn (the tapered shank might just allow that much swing). It makes me think of the tight areas of clocks and musical instruments, maybe the housing of a pump, valve, or other equipment for timing, tension, or flow rate.
My guess is a one-off user mod for a very specific application.
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I've got one of those. Maybe the "moto" spelling was used by more than one manufacturer, but I think Indian, at least, used it intentionally. "Moto" refers to the the fun, liberating, rapid movement of the vehicle, rather than the (loud, smelly, tempermental) engine that accomplishes it. Con moto is a direction for music tempo.
I ran into the spelling a couple years ago when I found a Vacuum Grip valve cover pliers.
Edit: (thanks to DadsTools for provoking the research)
Hendee produced motorcycles beginning in 1901, but changed their name to Indian Motocycle Manufacturing Company in the 1928, and went bankrupt in 1953, though (according to Wikipedia) there were several attempts to revitalize the brand before the current Polaris iteration. I would guess that the "Motocycle" spelling probably ended with the first bankruptcy.
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You are correct. It is an early designation (spelling) for Indian. I also seem to recall the actual bike company was something like 'HeeDee'. I did the research back when I sold the wrench in the attached photos, can't recall the exact dating involved but it is early 1900s. The photos also confirm the Wakefield connection as the contract maker.
BTW, one of the details I discovered on these auto style wrenches is that the 'enveloped' style is earlier than the 'open' style for these, presumably because the former was simply too expensive to make.
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I've been working on completing the Sears/Craftsman 26 piece metric tool set as depicted in their 1960 hand tool catalog (see below). I finally found a few of the DOE wrenches that were included in the set. Maybe it's just that I've been having bad luck tracking these down, but the older metric DOE wrenches (and DBE wrenches for that matter) with the pointed "A" in the word CR"A"FTSM"A"N are not as easy to find as I thought they might be. Anyway, I found three that are in okay condition.
Jim C.
Jim C.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Couple from the flea market this morning. I hardly ever see these stylish New Britain NDF series wrenches, and this one (Thumbnails 1, 2, and 3) has some kind of phosphate finish. No clue on the REGO 1" x 1-1/4" service wrench (Thumbnails 4 and 5) , but I liked the logo.
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Could be. Some kind of equipment with big nozzle or collar nuts.
davethorik
Well-known member
I thought maybe it referred to Rego-Fix machine tooling, but a little googling and they were re-named to that in 1979. Plus, most of their wrenches were of the spanner type.
That wrench definitely older. Google shows other Rego wrenches listed as described by outlaw, but yours resembles a DOE service wrench. I would have grabbed it too.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I'm going to have to think about this one some more. Picked it up at the flea yesterday. An early Lectrolite tappet wrench with cadmium plating residue and strange markings on the flip side. If that ".05" is a compositional percentage amount of Cr and V, as AA claims, it's half the amount of Vanadium (0.1%) and magnitudes less than the Chromium (0.8%) that was put in pre-war AISI 61xx Chrome-Vanadium formulas. Uness they're expressing the amount in something other than percentage.
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twertsy
Well-known member
Username already in use
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser. Maybe it's just their way of indicating that it's a 'half and half' recipe so to speak, like a branding, as AA suggests. It's tempting to read the cad-plating as wartime, and the low doses as their way to show they were way under the limits, but it doesn't work that way - the composition would have to be way higher in some other alloy (most often manganese), and vanadium was restricted completely, in any amount, after January 1942. It's a puzzler for sure.
d42jeep
Well-known member
I found this unusual DOE wrench set at a estate sale in San Raphael, CA this morning. On the clip it’s marked “Made in occupied Japan”. Has anybody seen these before?
-Don
-Don
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Farmer J.
Well-known member
That's an interesting piece of history. Never seen those before but I do have a box that's similarly marked saying something like 'Made in Germany US Occupied Zone'. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find it recently...
d42jeep
Well-known member
d42jeep
Well-known member
I've wondered about that myself, Lugz. I've got this Lectrolite Tru-Fit combo wrench that's marked the same way.
Here are my pair of Lectrolite tappet wrenches. One has normal markings on the back, the other is the same as yours and Lugz. The other chrome ones I found at a garage sale today.
-Don
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
When I picked up this International Harvester 1595E DOE wrench at the flea market this morning, as first reported on the 2018 Garage Sale thread, it was so rust-crudded, I couldn't read the sizes, the model number or the maker mark. But the bulkiness of the shank and heads and the ornate forged-in markings told me it was antique era, so I was curious. Apparently they are fairly common as far as old tractor wrenches go. Oh well. Another one for the "fancy and forlorn" bin.
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I have an unmarked version of this one in the display case. I have no idea beyond it bears the sizes of a No. 27 wrench. Quite crudely forged but of decent steel.
I picked it up for the oddity value, this post above is the only one close so far.
d42jeep
Well-known member
OK, before I start cutting I'l get opinions on if these DOE's are more valuable as collectors items then as material. I have a project to make another stake hammer puller, and this one needs a couple of open ends sacrificed for the puller jaws.
So here are the possible sacrificial victims:
Anyone going to die if I cut a couple of these up?
So here are the possible sacrificial victims:
- Top one has "Made in USA" on one side and "Drop forged" on the other side
- Next one down has nothing
- Next one down has "M in a circle, and possibly a D (seems filled in) nothing on the other side
- Next down is "Controlled Steel" on one side, "dropped forged" on the other
- Last is "dropped forged" and "Made in USA" on the other
Anyone going to die if I cut a couple of these up?
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Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Snerk. Now that's a funny post. Good instincts, Outlaw. No weight in gold wrenches there. The M-Circle is a Moore wrench, and the CONTROLLED STEEL is J.P. Danielson, but not uncommon. The DROP FORGED wrenches are not rare either.
RagTopTA
Well-known member
Last weekends haul wasn't very big but I did see a wrench that caught my eye. It has markings on one side but I cant make them all out. and on the reverse side it has an actual ruler made into the wrench. Heres some pictures of it. Anyone seen one of these before?
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RagTopTA
Well-known member
ok well I just found it myself. Its a Massey Harris Ferguson plow wrench. there's a couple on Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MHF-Plow-W...389542?hash=item25f3484466:g:hXQAAOSwdBZazNaH
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MHF-Plow-W...389542?hash=item25f3484466:g:hXQAAOSwdBZazNaH
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twertsy
Well-known member
That is very likely a Keystone wrench.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
That's a neat wrench, RagTop!
twertsy
Well-known member
Yes. It is speculated that the measurements are for checking fuel, or blade spacing......
Qrazy
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Farmer J.
Well-known member
Yes, they're for jobs like setting up the Ferguson plough (plow). Very useful for instance when setting the coulter depth you can slacken the adjusting clamps and whilst holding and moving the coulter around with one hand use the spanner (wrench) in the other to measure then set the position by tightening the clamp nuts with out letting go of the spanner (wrench), you can do the whole job quick and easy without letting go of either hand or risking pinched fingers.
If it's a multi furrow (bottom) plough(plow) you can then repeat the setting exactly for the other coulters by using the measurements from the first one.
As long as the whole machine is then adjusted level on the tractor linkage (hitch) the result should be a beautifully evenly ploughed (plowed) field, nice and even to work over on the next job.
Ploughmen love those spanners! The 2 ends of them fit almost every adjuster on every old Ferguson implement.
(American terminology in brackets)