Show us your VFD conversions/installations
- Thread starter Techie1961
- Start date
laser3kw
Well-known member
I feel your pain brother! Wish I could help more. Kind of sounds like a quirk in the vfd drive program.
Last edited:
Well, the latest update is as follows;
I contacted the manufacturer and suggested it could be an opportunity to send me a replacement unit as what I have maybe faulty.
They did not agree, but have continued to offer programming adjustments that have been of no consequence.
There is definitely a problem with something whether it be my motor or there unit, but I do fail to see how my motor at one time did run at the setting programmed prior to going remote.
The part of the equation is the language barrier, whereby they are using a young non technical girl to translate my comments and feedback to the Tech.
Since going remote the issues came into play.
I have tried as they suggested to go back to the panel control, but for now the issue remains with binding to a full stall.
I have taken the initiative for now and have advised them, that I plan to rest the upper speed limit from 120hz down to 87hz.
The motor starts to bind at about 90hz and grinds to a halt by 120hz.
Sadly, this limits my top speed which was factored into my original mechanical gearing, so I have elected to try and increase the size of one of my small sprockets to try and regain some top speed that way.
I guess we have parted friends as they are just employees in this massive corporation and have limited capacity to deal.
The girl did say that should she or the Tech ever determine a similar fault or a solution that may also be a possible help to me that they would email me to advise me of any program ideas, I guess like a bulletin.
So for now at least I have a solution that should work for me but no thanks to my manufacturer.
Should the opportunity arise I may consider doing a swap later to a more widely used and reliable brand, but for now I will just run with my plan B solution...
I contacted the manufacturer and suggested it could be an opportunity to send me a replacement unit as what I have maybe faulty.
They did not agree, but have continued to offer programming adjustments that have been of no consequence.
There is definitely a problem with something whether it be my motor or there unit, but I do fail to see how my motor at one time did run at the setting programmed prior to going remote.
The part of the equation is the language barrier, whereby they are using a young non technical girl to translate my comments and feedback to the Tech.
Since going remote the issues came into play.
I have tried as they suggested to go back to the panel control, but for now the issue remains with binding to a full stall.
I have taken the initiative for now and have advised them, that I plan to rest the upper speed limit from 120hz down to 87hz.
The motor starts to bind at about 90hz and grinds to a halt by 120hz.
Sadly, this limits my top speed which was factored into my original mechanical gearing, so I have elected to try and increase the size of one of my small sprockets to try and regain some top speed that way.
I guess we have parted friends as they are just employees in this massive corporation and have limited capacity to deal.
The girl did say that should she or the Tech ever determine a similar fault or a solution that may also be a possible help to me that they would email me to advise me of any program ideas, I guess like a bulletin.
So for now at least I have a solution that should work for me but no thanks to my manufacturer.
Should the opportunity arise I may consider doing a swap later to a more widely used and reliable brand, but for now I will just run with my plan B solution...
laser3kw
Well-known member
there is a function in the vfd to "reset to factory parameters".
maybe give that a try and start over just operating of key pad, then add in each tweek?
maybe give that a try and start over just operating of key pad, then add in each tweek?
Just an update for those who maybe interested and here is hoping I am not being premature in say that I have good news.
I sat down and went thru another parameter check which included considering the numbers that were offered up yesterday by a very helpful and persistent forum member.
It would seem by changing;
F00.00 = 2 and by setting
F00.03 & F00.04 = 120hz and setting
F00.07 = 0
My motor will run all the way upto 120hz without a problem.
Similarly, it sits on 20hz at lower limit until foot pedal is released.
I can not believe how simple that was to solve in the end.
I guess we knew it was probably just some annoying glitch.
You just don't know how happy I am to be done with that problem.
I sat down and went thru another parameter check which included considering the numbers that were offered up yesterday by a very helpful and persistent forum member.
It would seem by changing;
F00.00 = 2 and by setting
F00.03 & F00.04 = 120hz and setting
F00.07 = 0
My motor will run all the way upto 120hz without a problem.
Similarly, it sits on 20hz at lower limit until foot pedal is released.
I can not believe how simple that was to solve in the end.
I guess we knew it was probably just some annoying glitch.
You just don't know how happy I am to be done with that problem.
AngularContact
Member
Hey folks. I apologize if this has already been mentioned but there are a metric $&?! Ton of posts. VFD produce a buildup of rotor current that is discharged through the bearings particularly at frequency less than 30 hz. This may not be a factor considering run hours of shop equipment. But in motors running continuous I can document bearing failures because of running on a freq drive without rotor grounding. If you’re only using the equipment a limited number of hours don’t worry, it’s just food for thought.
Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app
Thanks for your comments and good intentions.
Funny thing is I don't generally ever expect to get down to such a low speed and had been considering raising my setting from 20hz upto approx 30hz just for reducing the risk of things going wrong.
Funny thing is I don't generally ever expect to get down to such a low speed and had been considering raising my setting from 20hz upto approx 30hz just for reducing the risk of things going wrong.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
It's still tripping the VFD on motor stop. The drum switch is the start input to the drive. I just ran the conduit that way to keep things a little cleaner.
For the life of me I'm not seeing any setting to change to get the braking enabled, that aren't already enabled. Either I'm missing something (most likely) or the braking ***** for this large rotating mass..? I welcome any input on this braking issue. Maybe I need a different drive?
When in the decel ramp is the drive faulting?
What fault is the drive displaying?
What are F14 thru' F17 set to?
Regards large mass how fast are you able to accelerate up to speed? With 100% braking capability you should be able to decel at close to the same rate as accel.
454ragtop
Well-known member
Try increasing the deceleration time, most likely not enough internal braking capacity to stop it as soon as you have it set. If you need a quick stop, probably have to add an external braking resistor.
laser3kw
Well-known member
^^^^^
What fault is the drive displaying?
OCd?
OCb?
OVC?
F14 ~F17 are the braking function. The manual shows default should be controlled stop.
what size is your braking resistor and what terminals is it hooked up to?
I went back to SloDat's post #522 which shows an external braking resistor ( although it is inside the enclosure).
Later SloDat stated moving the decel to 90 seconds got rid of the fault on stop. And the resistor was not building any heat after multiple stop events.
PS- page 63 of the manual shows, depending on VFD model, there may not be a braking circuit requiring an external braking resistor.
Last edited:
I remember now. Just skimmed back earlier to find out what drive. No heat and no DC voltage going to the resistor.
Manual I've got doesn't show the chopper as optional. It's built in to the 2 HP and larger, which SloDat appears to have, and not available on 1 HP and fractional. Though it's certainly possible the drive doesn't have a chopper if it's an OEM special or something.
laser3kw
Well-known member
Can SloDat post the model numer so we can check the manual?
I took a stab at it from the picture and searched for a Teco fm50
It definitely looks like a large frame FM50 which should have the chopper according to the documentation I've got. Would be good to have the drives full model # though.
Attachments
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
laser3kw
Well-known member
F01: Accel time: 5 sec
F02: Decel time: 90 sec
F14: Stop Method: 0 (controlled deceleration stop)
F15: DC Braking Time: 0.5 s
F16: DC Braking injection freq: 3.0
F17: DC Braking Level: 15.0
Model is FM50-202 - 2HP, 7.5A, single/3 phase input.
Thanks
That confirms that it does have the braking circuit. It also show that it requires a "FM100-2BR2 resistor 150 watt, 100 ohm. Is that the correct specs for the resistor shown in the pics? And connected to terminal "P" and "R"?
Attachments
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
From the invoice:
DBR-2002-C1TECO Dynamic Brake Resistor, 230V, 2HP **JNBR-150W100**$20.00
I’ll double check the terminal connections tonight. Last night the damn thing start/stopped about 6 times with no trip. I’d like it stop it a lot faster. I’m willing to buy a different vfd to get it stopping faster if anyone has a solid recommendation.
DBR-2002-C1TECO Dynamic Brake Resistor, 230V, 2HP **JNBR-150W100**$20.00
I’ll double check the terminal connections tonight. Last night the damn thing start/stopped about 6 times with no trip. I’d like it stop it a lot faster. I’m willing to buy a different vfd to get it stopping faster if anyone has a solid recommendation.
laser3kw
Well-known member
I see know reason it shouldn't
I have much bigger / mass and am stopping in program decal in the 1 second range.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Tonight I'll change F02 to 10 seconds, which is what I would like to have for a stop time. Do you suggest changing any of the braking settings?
laser3kw
Well-known member
try cutting your decel down as far as you can with no fault. Then set your
f14 = 0
f15 - 1.0
f16 = 5 (** play with this a little may help - values 1-10 sec)
f17 = 8
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Will do. What are you stopping with your drive?
This thing takes about 45 minutes to coast to a stop.
This thing takes about 45 minutes to coast to a stop.
laser3kw
Well-known member
rotary wire straightening arbor spinning around 6000rpm.
Also the reciprocating cutting arm cycles in and out in under a second
Also the reciprocating cutting arm cycles in and out in under a second
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
A different drive?
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Lowered decal to 60 and it tripped on "OL1" - motor overload.
The motor is listed as "2HP", 2A @ 220v. This is simply not true. If it's a true 2hp, 3 phase current at 230v would be ~6.8A. If the 2A is true it's more like a 1/2 hp motor. It seems to have a ton of power when I lean into it. I'm thinking I'll up the overload setting to 5A and see how it goes..
The motor is listed as "2HP", 2A @ 220v. This is simply not true. If it's a true 2hp, 3 phase current at 230v would be ~6.8A. If the 2A is true it's more like a 1/2 hp motor. It seems to have a ton of power when I lean into it. I'm thinking I'll up the overload setting to 5A and see how it goes..
Attachments
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Well.... it was the F18 (Motor rated current) setting. It's now happily stopping the motor without incident. Current settings:
F02: Decel time: 8 sec
F15: DC Braking Time: 1.5 s
F16: DC Braking injection freq: 3.0
F17: DC Braking Level: 15.0
F18: Motor Current: .67
I'm seeing voltage across the braking resistor now during deceleration. Drive is not tripping out. It appears to be stopping as fast as it can. It's taking about 26 seconds from 60 to 3 Hz. I'm happy. It works and I've start/stopped it a bunch of times.
Thanks guys!
F02: Decel time: 8 sec
F15: DC Braking Time: 1.5 s
F16: DC Braking injection freq: 3.0
F17: DC Braking Level: 15.0
F18: Motor Current: .67
I'm seeing voltage across the braking resistor now during deceleration. Drive is not tripping out. It appears to be stopping as fast as it can. It's taking about 26 seconds from 60 to 3 Hz. I'm happy. It works and I've start/stopped it a bunch of times.
Thanks guys!
laser3kw
Well-known member
Yes, we use Yaskawa drives. I find a lot of vfd program and run similar.
Good deal on your settings, I hope it helps others in the future. I am still curious as to why it win't stop faster . I realize it is a larger flywheel and little drag from drive train. We have a radial arm saw in our shipping department that we added a vfd to. Our safety committee recognized the run on as a safety concern. The vfd stops it in a short order.Maybe the parameter setting will shed some light on this
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Like I said, the disc takes an honest (timed) 45 minutes to coast to a stop. No matter how low I set F02, it's taking about 25 seconds 60-3 hz. I'm happy with the way it is working. Thanks for your help!
At my day job we use a lot of ABB in pump controls and Allen Bradley drives in our crane travel and hoist controls. For the ~$200 I have in the drive, I am happy with 30 second stop time.
At my day job we use a lot of ABB in pump controls and Allen Bradley drives in our crane travel and hoist controls. For the ~$200 I have in the drive, I am happy with 30 second stop time.
Slodat,
Good catch on the chinese nameplate
Aside from the amps being wrong the rpm also looks to be for 50Hz not 60.
Sounds like the drive is automatically limiting decel to prevent overvolting the DC bus. Fairly common feature which can be turned off on some drives.
Agree it should be able to stop faster than 25s if it's capable of accelerating in 5s, at least in theory. I guess this raises the question of whether it's actually accelerating up to full speed in 5s?
Good catch on the chinese nameplate
Aside from the amps being wrong the rpm also looks to be for 50Hz not 60.Sounds like the drive is automatically limiting decel to prevent overvolting the DC bus. Fairly common feature which can be turned off on some drives.
Agree it should be able to stop faster than 25s if it's capable of accelerating in 5s, at least in theory. I guess this raises the question of whether it's actually accelerating up to full speed in 5s?
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Funny you say this. After I left the shop last night I was kicking myself for not timing the accel time to see how it looked. I will tonight.
laser3kw
Well-known member
what is your f01 & f02? f05?
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
F01: Accel time: 5 sec
F02: Decel time: 9 sec
F05 was set to 4. Changing it to 6 => 11 second accel and 30 second decel.
Changing F05 = 5 changing F02 to 9 => 6.5 second accel and 22 second decel.
This is running really nice and the decel is really fast for the machine. The drive is clearly limiting the decel to limit over voltage on the DC bus. It's working well. I hadn't played with F05 yet, 4 was the default curve.
Video of start and stop.
F02: Decel time: 9 sec
F05 was set to 4. Changing it to 6 => 11 second accel and 30 second decel.
Changing F05 = 5 changing F02 to 9 => 6.5 second accel and 22 second decel.
This is running really nice and the decel is really fast for the machine. The drive is clearly limiting the decel to limit over voltage on the DC bus. It's working well. I hadn't played with F05 yet, 4 was the default curve.
Video of start and stop.
Last edited:
laser3kw
Well-known member
thanks for the video, that is really great performance of that unit.
Hope this inspires others to rescue industrial equipment.
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Carrying my control panel style on to the disc sander.
Top is the test piece in 1/8 mdf. Bottom is the drill template for the indicator lamp.
Finished part waiting for final assembly after work.
I have used these indicator lamps a few times in the shop. They help me make sure I’ve powered down at the end of the day. And, I like the look.
Top is the test piece in 1/8 mdf. Bottom is the drill template for the indicator lamp.
Finished part waiting for final assembly after work.
I have used these indicator lamps a few times in the shop. They help me make sure I’ve powered down at the end of the day. And, I like the look.
Attachments
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
laser3kw
Well-known member
you're gonna run out of projects!
unless you create projects to use your projects.
Are you using reversing on the drill press?
PS - on your disc sander, the resistor is a "20%" braking resistor - sort of like duty cycle. You could get a lower resistance / higher wattage and go to 50% or 70% and be ok. That will allow it to stop faster.
unless you create projects to use your projects.
Are you using reversing on the drill press?
PS - on your disc sander, the resistor is a "20%" braking resistor - sort of like duty cycle. You could get a lower resistance / higher wattage and go to 50% or 70% and be ok. That will allow it to stop faster.
That resistor is more like 10% duty cycle. Upping the wattage might improve braking somewhat though dumping more heat into that small enclosure could cause problems.
Reducing resistance below the manufacturers recommendation is risky because it can nuke the chopper in the drive.
Last edited:
slodat
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I’m happy with it. Considering both done.
laser3kw
Well-known member
20% comes from the manufactures specs. "Upping the wattage" will do nothing except the resistor will not be as warm to the touch during the 26 seconds it is working. The braking is controlled by the dc buss voltage vs resistor value allowing the current of the field to dissipate - Ohm's law. Dump the current faster = better braking action.
I would guess a quick email or phone call to the manufacture will get you a good recommendation.