Show us your VFD conversions/installations

[Greg9504]

thanks for the video, that is really great performance of that unit.
Hope this inspires others to rescue industrial equipment.

Is it? Seems rather weak. 20 seconds to stop that wheel seems long. Not arguing, just curious. I admit to have limited experience, but I'm able to stop my 5' wheels in seconds. I figured most VFDs should be able to brake a load rather quick.

If you're bored, here's a video that shows the braking for my wheels... although it was more to show the keyless bushing that I used (braking is near the end). The wheel decelerate in about 3 seconds, belts do slip though, then it coasts for a bit.

Drive is Electromotive Magnetek (rebanded Yaskawa I believe). My braking resistor is stupidly large, as I purchased it surplus as it had the correct Ohm value. The drive was originally targeted for overhead hoist installs, so perhaps it has beefed up braking circuitry.

 

[slodat]

Those drives are used on crane hoists. We have them at work. The drive I’m using cost about $200 including the resistor. Different classes of equipment. I’m happy with the 26 seconds. It’s an enormous improvement over 45 minutes.

 

[laser3kw]

20 seconds to stop that wheel seems long. Not arguing, just curious. I admit to have limited experience, but I'm able to stop my 5' wheels in seconds. I figured most VFDs should be able to brake a load rather quick.

As stated in other post, I do agree there should be more to be had. But, from where slodat started, to where he ended up is good progress. A different resistor will improve that time some, maybe as much as half.
My observation, in your video the calculation shows a figure of 440 rpm, which indicates there is a drive train. That aids in the braking action thru the reflected interia. Slodat is direct drive, motor shaft to disc spinning 1800rpm(?). Also we are comparing slodats video where he is timing it from cycle stop to motion stop. Viewing your video, I count about 10 sec from what I perceive as the start of decel around 5:23 to where it changes scenes at 5:33 where it appears to have come to a stop.
I have looked over the instruction and don't see much to adjust. Slodat seems satisfied with the action. Maybe in the future he may toy with it some more.

 

[Greg9504]

I count about 10 sec from what I perceive as the start of decel around 5:23 to where it changes scenes at 5:33 where it appears to have come to a stop.

The braking is all done within about 3 seconds. Go to 4:20, 70hz (approx 2100 motor rpm). When you hear the switch click (4:26), the wheel goes from 330rpm to about 30 rpm in about 3 seconds, the wheel only turns another 3.5 more times before stopping. I'm not quite sure why the braking doesn't continue. One reason is that the belts slip and the VFD sees 0 rpm at the motor, another is I'm 90% sure that I don't have DC injection braking turned on. When I setup the VFD I wasn't confident what that meant so turned it off. When it warms up in the spring I'll try enabling it. I don't think it's a matter of the drive not being able to dump the energy, because when I have both wheels spinning (when the cutting cable is attached) it decelerates in the same amount of time.

 

[slodat]

I don't see how there's any more braking available with the parts I have. It's not worth spending any more money on, this is a tool I use, not a hobby. I welcome any suggestions. Like I said above, this is $200 in drive and braking resistor. It's low end stuff with a very high inertia load for the motor/drive size. It takes 45 minutes to coast to a stop with no braking.

 

[Rsharp66]

I needed something to run my old 1/2 hourse round ram Bridgeport. It came with a Phase-o-Matic that resulted in overheat after about 3 minutes of running. Going from the tips on this site and Practical Machinist I ended up with an AC Tech - ESV371N02YXB, which is their 1/2 horse model.

As the pics show, I ran the single phase 220 down from the ceiling in a way oversized cable which I admit I selected for looks over actual need. That goes into a cutoff switch in a standard grey box. At that point I split off a 110 leg and the neutral from the unswitched side and pulled it thru a hole milled in both boxes to an outlet for lights and stuff. The two 110 legs from the switched side go thru some ¾ inch grey flex conduit with a machine ground to the VFD.

The boxes and the VFD are mounted with tapped holes on aluminum plates which are clamped onto the back end of the round ram by a thru bolt.

From the VFD up to the motor I ran another chunk of 3/4 flex conduit into the back of the old Cutler Hammer barrel switch. In there are the 3 phases from the VFD to the motor as well as the smaller 3 signal wires for On+Forward and On+Reverse operation in the VFD programing. I used the back 3 poles on the switch and just removed the old L2 contact. I did not do a rheostat because frankly it is close enough to just go manually punch the frequency up and down to change speeds. If I really need it on the front I can always add later.

Overall it came out pretty clean, and what I really like is that I can rotate the turret and rotate the head pretty much anywhere I want without having to worry about cables getting tight / loose / in the way. That and the motor actually purrs with that VFD.

 

[laser3kw]

Go to 4:20, 70hz (approx 2100 motor rpm). When you hear the switch click (4:26), the wheel goes from 330rpm to about 30 rpm in about 3 seconds, the wheel only turns another 3.5 more times before stopping.

hey Greg9504, thanks for sharing. I am always interested in other set ups and to learn the quirks they hold. I always want to broaden my knowledge of vfd's, I am some what confined in there usage where I work as we have pretty well defined machines and rarely have a chance to try new things.
In reviewing your video, I now see the reference. I admit, I skipped around the first time just to see the slow down and missed the 4:23 portion.
I am not sure if Magetek is a Yaskawa, I know Omron is (was?). I use Yaskawa in my machines for the last 12 years.
I would like to know the results when you get a chance to turn on the DC inject. I am sure it will solve the creep.

 

[Greg9504]

hey Greg9504, thanks for sharing...I am some what confined in there usage where I work as we have pretty well defined machines and rarely have a chance to try new things.
I would like to know the results when you get a chance to turn on the DC inject. I am sure it will solve the creep.

Glad someone found the video interesting! I'll try to post back here what I'm able to achieve. Saw is under a few feet of snow right now so I'll have to wait until spring.

 

[laser3kw]

Glad someone found the video interesting! I'll try to post back here what I'm able to achieve. Saw is under a few feet of snow right now so I'll have to wait until spring.

don't let a little snow stop you!

 

[NC Rick]

Mine are not so tidy. The small one runs the Bridgeport and the big one is a 10 hp job derated to run the 7hp lathe both 3phase units running on single phase. Wonderful things!

 

[darkk]

All I know is it works beautifully...

 

[bpankratz]

I wanted to post this question here as I am very confused on the whole VFD, phase convention, transformer subject. I want to run a Quincy compressor off of a single ohase 240v source. The motor on there right now is a GE 550v 3 phase motor.
1. Can I even do this?
2.What components do I need?

My back up is a 7.5hp 240v motor I have, but it is MUCH bigger physically, and I would like to keep the compressor original for nostalgia. What are my options?

 

[Fallon]

I wanted to post this question here as I am very confused on the whole VFD, phase convention, transformer subject. I want to run a Quincy compressor off of a single ohase 240v source. The motor on there right now is a GE 550v 3 phase motor.
1. Can I even do this?
2.What components do I need?

My back up is a 7.5hp 240v motor I have, but it is MUCH bigger physically, and I would like to keep the compressor original for nostalgia. What are my options?

Pull off the original motor & put on a single phase one. Keep the original for nostalgia. A VFD for a compressor is going to be more expensive than a new motor & decrease efficiency on an already not super efficient system. The ability to control motor speed isn't super useful in a compressor use case.

A 7.5hp VFD is going to be $600-800 & those cheaper VFDs aren't likely to hold up that long running at maximum capacity for super long, at least compared to the lifespan of a motor or compressor.

It's definitely doable if you really want to keep the stock motor. Converting 1 phase to 3 phase & changing voltages is what VFDs do. It's just not that worth it in some cases, especially bigger HP, where you don't need the other advantages.

 

[laser3kw]

a vfd can't create power, it can only manipulate it. I doubt if you can get a vfd to supply enough in rush current to even start a 575v compressor motor (off 240v 1ph).
Follow Fallons suggestion, swap a equivalent horsepower 240v single phase motor on to it.
If you want it to look vintage, just squirt it with used motor oil and dirty it up a bit

 

[Fallon]

a vfd can't create power, it can only manipulate it. I doubt if you can get a vfd to supply enough in rush current to even start a 575v compressor motor (off 240v 1ph).
Follow Fallons suggestion, swap a equivalent horsepower 240v single phase motor on to it.
If you want it to look vintage, just squirt it with used motor oil and dirty it up a bit

Amps * Volts = watts. To dump the same wattage into a 575v motor you need about half the current (amps) a 240v motor (or a VFD converting 240v to 575v) to uses.

There are plenty of 7.5hp & higher rated VFDs out there https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...t=0&Product__F__Accessory_Type_ms="AC Drives" They just aren't cheap & the "cheaper" ones aren't going to be super long lived. As those VFDs are rated for HP, they are designed for the startup loads of electric motors.

No experience with Automation direct, just one of the first google search results, but have heard their name a bit. You have to de-rate a VFD by about 30-40% if it's designed for 3 phase input & are only feeding it single phase. So you may need to get one rated for 10 or 15HP, depending on your circumstances.

 

[MattT]

It's definitely doable if you really want to keep the stock motor. Converting 1 phase to 3 phase & changing voltages is what VFDs do.

I've never seen a VFD that stepped up voltage other than small 120v in 230v out ones and they ain't really stepping up voltage anyways. Once you get past the 120v>230v drives voltage in equals voltage out.

To run a 575v motor at nameplate rpm/HP on 240v single phase will take a 240v to 575v step up transformer and a 575V VFD which'll run on two input legs.

 

[bpankratz]

Ok, I think I found my answer. Sort of ***** for nostalgia, but it's easier on the wallet. Thanks guys.

 

[Bigblockyeti]

Finished wiring my VFD for my Delta DP 600 today. It is powered with a 6 pole (1200rpm) Hitachi motor I bought new for $15 from an industrial surplus warehouse. I now need to make a remote operator box and an enclosure for the drive itself.

 

[MKSJ]

ERL-1340 Lathe VFD conversion.
Stock system followed by replacement Yaskawa VFD with custom control system. Braking resistor is behind the mounting panel. Control system uses an electronic position control to trigger the braking for threading/turning to a fixed position accurate to better than 0.001". System will run off of 230VAC single phase or 3 phase input. DC choke is used to decrease the THD of the VFD.
Computer programming and tuning the VFD via laptop computer.
Replacement front controls with speed, tachometer/SFM display in upper pod under the DRO.

 

[zmotorsports]

ERL-1340 Lathe VFD conversion.
Stock system followed by replacement Yaskawa VFD with custom control system. Braking resistor is behind the mounting panel. Control system uses an electronic position control to trigger the braking for threading/turning to a fixed position accurate to better than 0.001". System will run off of 230VAC single phase or 3 phase input. DC choke is used to decrease the THD of the VFD.
Computer programming and tuning the VFD via laptop computer.
Replacement front controls with speed, tachometer/SFM display in upper pod under the DRO.

Mark, is this your new lathe or one you are helping someone with? I thought you still had your PM1340GT?

Love your VFD work by the way.

 

[MKSJ]

Hi Mike,
I moved to southern CA a few months ago, decided it was "easier" to sell the 1340GT and order an ERL-1340 to be delivered to CA. Always liked that lathe, but it is much heavier and difficult to move. Briefly considered the RML-1440, but it is another 1000lbs over the ERL and quite a bit bigger. I built the control system for Paco's RML-1640, so was familiar with that lathe. Ordered the ERL from QMT/Matt last year and was delivered about 2 months ago. Been working on getting it up and running. So far, very nice lathe, the increased rigidity is very noticeable over the 1340GT. Since I do a lot of metric threading the universal gearbox is also quite handy.

Thank you for the kind comments on my work, I have built quite a few VFD systems for other individuals through the years, so I am a bit more proficient then when I installed the one on my 1340GT 6 years ago. Adding a VFD and all the features brings these machines up to a whole new level, and the proximity stop system makes threading very simple.
Take care,
Mark

 

[zmotorsports]

Hi Mike,
I moved to southern CA a few months ago, decided it was "easier" to sell the 1340GT and order an ERL-1340 to be delivered to CA. Always liked that lathe, but it is much heavier and difficult to move. Briefly considered the RML-1440, but it is another 1000lbs over the ERL and quite a bit bigger. I built the control system for Paco's RML-1640, so was familiar with that lathe. Ordered the ERL from QMT/Matt last year and was delivered about 2 months ago. Been working on getting it up and running. So far, very nice lathe, the increased rigidity is very noticeable over the 1340GT. Since I do a lot of metric threading the universal gearbox is also quite handy.

Thank you for the kind comments on my work, I have built quite a few VFD systems for other individuals through the years, so I am a bit more proficient then when I installed the one on my 1340GT 6 years ago. Adding a VFD and all the features brings these machines up to a whole new level, and the proximity stop system makes threading very simple.
Take care,
Mark

Nice.

Good luck at the new home/location.

 

[isb cornbinder]

Mister Pete 222 of You Tube fame has posted more than a few VFD drive installations. His videos are well worth watching before a person spends money on something that may have the magic. I might need some of that electronics for three phase operation on 220 volt domestic power.

 

[LG63]

Earlier in this thread the Teco FM50 was a popular choice. Now that it's been discontinued is there a current favorite? I need one for a 1/2 HP motor.

 

[slodat]

Are you sure you can’t find a 1/2 hp FM50? The automation direct GS1 and GS2 drives are good options, too. There are many others as well.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I used the Teco L510 series VFD. If external braking needed, I understand that the E510 series allows it.

 

[LG63]

Are you sure you can’t find a 1/2 hp FM50? The automation direct GS1 and GS2 drives are good options, too. There are many others as well.

I could probably find a FM50 but thought I would go with a current model unless there was a compelling reason to seek out a FM50.
Since posting the question I've seen the L510 mentioned in a couple other threads as well as Occupant's comment so I'll probably go that route.
Thanks for the input

 

[Davefr]

Earlier in this thread the Teco FM50 was a popular choice. Now that it's been discontinued is there a current favorite? I need one for a 1/2 HP motor.

The L510 is the newest replacement but not offered in a NEMA case.

One of the advantages of the L510 is the analog control. (much easier for speed adjustments.) In addition it offers Sensorless Vector mode.

It's also quite affordable and documentation is excellent.

 

[Rsharp66]

I still like my AC Tech - ESV371N02YXB on my 1/2 HP, been running since December and no issues. Not very expensive and good documentation / on line resources.

 

[Atlascycle]

ERL-1340 Lathe VFD conversion.
Stock system followed by replacement Yaskawa VFD with custom control system. Braking resistor is behind the mounting panel. Control system uses an electronic position control to trigger the braking for threading/turning to a fixed position accurate to better than 0.001". System will run off of 230VAC single phase or 3 phase input. DC choke is used to decrease the THD of the VFD.
Computer programming and tuning the VFD via laptop computer.
Replacement front controls with speed, tachometer/SFM display in upper pod under the DRO.

Mark,
that is a nicely built panel.

Jason

 

[Firebrick43]

I could probably find a FM50 but thought I would go with a current model unless there was a compelling reason to seek out a FM50.
Since posting the question I've seen the L510 mentioned in a couple other threads as well as Occupant's comment so I'll probably go that route.
Thanks for the input

The l510 drive are good. I have two. A 1hp and a 3 hp. No issues with either. Also have several others but for most dumb equipment the Teco is great.

The L510 is the newest replacement but not offered in a NEMA case.
Technically they are in a nema open chassis. But I think you ment nema 4x which means it can be mounted in the open and not required to go in a nema 1 enclosure. Nema 4x l510 are available.

 

[lafester]

Probably been covered a million times but I am looking for a good potentiometer and 3 way [forward - off - reverse] switch for my Lenze ac tech VFD.

Any suggestions are welcome as a google search just isn't working, and most info is years out of date.

 

[MattT]

Probably been covered a million times but I am looking for a good potentiometer and 3 way [forward - off - reverse] switch for my Lenze ac tech VFD.

Any suggestions are welcome as a google search just isn't working, and most info is years out of date.

This stuff isn't bad for the money. I use it for low budget industrial jobs.

https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...uttons_-z-_switches_-z-_indicators/22mm_metal

If you want money no object good then Allen Bradley 800T. But they'll likely cost more than you paid for the drive.

 

[Davefr]

Probably been covered a million times but I am looking for a good potentiometer and 3 way [forward - off - reverse] switch for my Lenze ac tech VFD.

Any suggestions are welcome as a google search just isn't working, and most info is years out of date.

For most VFD's, remote control is low voltage/low current since these are inputs to the VFD. The manual should tell you the resistance of the pot and other specs.

Almost any spdt switch and pot that meets the resistance spec will work. They usually suggest using shielded wire from the VFD to the remote control.

The big question is what's the environment? If this is for a factory floor with a NEMA washdown requirement that's totally different from a home shop.

For a home shop you can get these components from mouser or any other electronic component supplier. (even ebay).

If you're setting up a production floor then you probably need to be looking at Allen Bradley or other industrial control suppliers.

 

[slodat]

This stuff isn't bad for the money. I use it for low budget industrial jobs.



https://www.automationdirect.com/ad...uttons_-z-_switches_-z-_indicators/22mm_metal



If you want money no object good then Allen Bradley 800T. But they'll likely cost more than you paid for the drive.

I have great luck getting Allen Bradley 800T stuff on eBay, both new old stock/surplus and used that look new enough.

 

[MattT]

I have great luck getting Allen Bradley 800T stuff on eBay, both new old stock/surplus and used that look new enough.

That works if you understand the product line. Chances are you won't find the exact part number for an assembled switch on ebay, if one even exists, so you'll have to piece it together. Figured it was easier to link an inexpensive off the shelf solution.

Also 22mm works with 7/8" / 1/2" K.O. holes but 30.5mm is a bit of an oddball so that'll be harder for a DIYer to deal with too. 1 3/16" holesaw is close enough you can make it work with a file but it's a pain.

 

[slodat]

Great points. I usually buy the small lots and assemble what I need from them.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

Hello- sorry for the dumb question... but I’m lost here... I watched 1.2 million videos and think I have a decent enough understanding on how a phase converters work.
Most of the youtube videos that have seen that are installing them on a 20”disc grinder use the VFD inverter (teco) that I can’t find.
I thought I had it figured out but then one post said to up the inverter 20% from what you need so you don’t have issues... so since this motor is 2hp that means I should get one rated for 3hp? Also the “1.5kw” nomenclature is also confusing.

I have attached a photo of the motor... can someone take pitty on me and review the specs and point me to the right vfd on Amazon?

*The tool is a 20” disc grinder and the motor is 3 phase, 2hp, 6.5-6/3amps , 56HZ that i want to run on 1 phase 220v power in my garage.

 

[laser3kw]

Teco L510 VFD link
some of the VFD's available are designed and rated for horsepower output with single phase input, so derating is needed. Just make sure the specifications say ** hp, 240 single phase input, 3 phase output.
your motor tag data - 56hz is the frame type or the case style and mounting provisions.
the motor will draw 6.5 amps at 208v, 6 amp at 230v and 3 amp at 460v all on 3 phase 60hz.

edit: 230v was 320v - fat fingered

 

[u3b3rg33k]

6amp @ 230V