Show us your VFD conversions/installations

[Firebrick43]

Can anyone tell me what the best way to put a VFD on a 2HP 3ph Bridgeport with Prototrak CNC control, if that matters. Is 110 1ph input OK or do I need 220? Thanks!

110v on 2 hp is silly. That’s 24 amps min, some efficiently loss, no spare capacity.

I am not even sure if they make 2hp 110 drives.

I have retrofitted 3 Bridgeport’s series 2 with EZ trac controls and tossed the reeves drive and replaced with a polyvee (12 rib if I remember correctly) and a Mitsubishi vfd. No issues with interference if you use proper practices.
Make sure the VFD is in a separate box/panel and the drive to motor cable is vfd shielded cable and not run near servo motor cables

 

[u3b3rg33k]

this should amuse. An old Baker 6/12 chipper with a 2HP 3 phase motor and 3hp phase converter drive on it. only pulls 0.3kW idle power at 1800rpm.

only change I might like to make is to mount a brake resistor for faster stopping.

 

[whateg01]

this should amuse. An old Baker 6/12 chipper with a 2HP 3 phase motor and 3hp phase converter drive on it. only pulls 0.3kW idle power at 1800rpm.

only change I might like to make is to mount a brake resistor for faster stopping.

That's a lot of mass to stop. Even with a braking resistor, it might not stop as fast as you'd hope. Then again, slow is still faster than slower.

Dave

 

[u3b3rg33k]

That's a lot of mass to stop. Even with a braking resistor, it might not stop as fast as you'd hope. Then again, slow is still faster than slower.

Dave

it stopped a lot faster when it had a gas engine due to compression braking, but even that took some time. the drive has a built in brake driver, recommended size is 50ohm, which would give me a bit over 1kW of braking(?). i'd be happy with a 5s stop vs the 20s or so it takes now. 5s is about my acceleration time, chosen to stay well within nameplate rating.

DC injection is also an option, I assume that turns all the kinetic energy into stator heat. it's not something that does a lot of stops so either option wouldn't be the end of the world.

Operationally, I like it better with the motor than the gas engine. i get full motor power at half speed, and it makes plenty of torque (10 ft/lbs or so overloaded). plenty of power for home use without having to deal with a gas engine, nevermind compared to a "15 amp" universal motor powered "chipper".

 

[Bill Vise]

Works great for variable speed on drill presses, lathes ,etc. but to do it right you have to do several things:

1) Use an oversize motor
2) Overspeed the motor for highest speeds
3) Use at least 2 pulley steps
4) Maintain sufficient belt speed for torque/hp

 

[sbosecker]

I purchased a VFD about 2-1/2 years ago.





It was a TECO FM50-201-OC

The "OC" designation indicates it has a "chassis with filter".

I have this VFD powering a Rockwell 11-inch Metal Lathe.

I'm looking for another VFD for a 2HP 3-phase motor that powered a Makita 2116 Band Saw.

I see a TECO FM50-202-C on eBay and the "C" designation apparently indicates it does not have a "filter"

Two questions:

1. Is the lack of a filter a problem?
2. Are there VFD's that are a better value than the FM50-202-C

Scott

 

[laser3kw]

I purchased a VFD about 2-1/2 years ago.
It was a TECO FM50-201-OC
The "OC" designation indicates it has a "chassis with filter".
I have this VFD powering a Rockwell 11-inch Metal Lathe.
I'm looking for another VFD for a 2HP 3-phase motor that powered a Makita 2116 Band Saw.
I see a TECO FM50-202-C on eBay and the "C" designation apparently indicates it does not have a "filter"
Two questions:
1. Is the lack of a filter a problem?
2. Are there VFD's that are a better value than the FM50-202-C
Scott

I will venture a guess the "filter" is an EMC filer. They are usually enabled or disabled by parameter and most likely not needed in applications seen here on GJ.
As far as a better value VFD, you would be rolling the dice. Most low cost VFDs will perform to advertised standard and perform well in low performance garage applications - on/off/run at rpm. The problem is when they don't. Sometimes setting up the drive is frustrating at best. It takes understanding of the parameter list and terminal connections to work with them and there is no standard through out the industry. If the drive doesn't have a network of tech support, you're on your own. One member on GJ in Australia bough a Chinese factory direct VFD and even the factory tech support could not help him get it running. It was another GJ member half way around the world from him that solved his problem.
I would stick with a VFD that you see talked about here or other forums and the members are happy with them. The Teco has a great following here so there is alot of help.

 

[dguzzi]

I use a TECO VFD on my Jet mill. It has a 3 ph 1 hp motor and the VFD converts my 120v to run it just great.

I have a hydraulic unit that I could use it on as well but no projects for it so I'll be selling it.

 

[Renegade1LI]

I bought a Chinese vfd 4 years ago for a 7 1/2 hp 3 phase table saw, worked great, in fact i started buying used 3 phase tools. Definitely can save some $$$ buying 3 phase and the vfd i got will handle any tool I’m looking for. I installed it by sub panel and put a drop in the middle of the shop with 25’ of sj cable, just plug in whatever I’m using. I have found that the lathe and belt sander really work well with it, on the shaper I can dial in different size bits. I picked up a hand held rpm meter so i can check, once dialed in you pretty much know what speed you want.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

You are on a fools errand. I'd bet you will never get that drive to work on a GFCI. For the life of me, I would not even try. This is from someone in the industry that has installed thousands of VFDs.

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Swapped out the bearings on my direct drive (aka PM inverter/vfd) washer. it has an absolutely monstrous filter in front of the drive housing. it does not trip GFCIs. maybe i'll grab one as a spare part and test it as a line filter.

 

[hans109h]

I just got through all 850 posts in one sitting. Thanks for the education on VFDs!

Hans

 

[laser3kw]

I just got through all 850 posts in one sitting. Thanks for the education on VFDs!

Hans

Wow! you are tenacious aren't you

 

[DocsMachine]

How about a 10HP Polyspede 'Speedstar' VFD...



Wired to a remote set of buttons using 3/8" steel fuel line as conduit...





All powering this monster:



I'm given to understand that's the biggest single-phase-in/three-phase-out VFD available. I could have cheaped out on a Chinese "10HP" VFD off eBay, but with the time, money and labor I have into this thing, it was worth splurging on the good stuff.

Doc.

 

[Duker]

How about a 10HP Polyspede 'Speedstar' VFD...

Wired to a remote set of buttons using 3/8" steel fuel line as conduit...

All powering this monster:

I'm given to understand that's the biggest single-phase-in/three-phase-out VFD available. I could have cheaped out on a Chinese "10HP" VFD off eBay, but with the time, money and labor I have into this thing, it was worth splurging on the good stuff.

Doc.

Doc, it is a “thing of beauty” as they say..... nicely done on the conduit work.


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[laser3kw]

It seems alot of VFD manufactures have made the conduit connection panel an optional feature. I would agree if the VFD is mounted inside cabinet all the time but, the larger ones may not be for cooling issues and shear size. You can purchase the panel if you wish to terminate a conduit to the VFD itself

 

[u3b3rg33k]

It seems alot of VFD manufactures have made the conduit connection panel an optional feature. I would agree if the VFD is mounted inside cabinet all the time but, the larger ones may not be for cooling issues and shear size. You can purchase the panel if you wish to terminate a conduit to the VFD itself

It's usually "standard" on anything with a proper housing/IP66 rating. costs more than buying just the drive itself of course.

once you get over a certain size it seems to be harder to find too, but that's a different problem.

the invertek's I've been picking up have this on the bottom:

 

[MKSJ]

I am assuming that the motor runs continuously and the lathe has a clutch drive. Most 3 phase input VFDs can be used with a single phase input, they needed to be derated by ~1.7 and it is also recommended to use a DC choke to decrease the fusing/breaker requirement and also the THD generated. Some of the larger VFD will have an integrated DC choke.

 

[slodat]

I'm given to understand that's the biggest single-phase-in/three-phase-out VFD available.

Doc.

Not at all. Hitachi rates their new SJ-P1 VFD's for single phase supply up to 105a on the three phase side.

I'm using one on a 30a spindle motor and it works quite well.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

Ummm hi again...
I’m here to plead for help. (Again) several months back or maybe a year-ish I got great help selecting a vfd... I spent days reading all the posts understanding the different options on vfd converters. I have always been scared of purchasing a 3-phase tool for my home hobby garage since electrical is not my strong suit and this thread took all that fear away.
I recently got a good deal on a mitering head bandsaw for my garage. But it’s Italian and says 480v... last time I played in this world this disc sander had the options on the baldor motor with a wiring diagram to help my little brain translate HP in Amps to get the right converter. This ones a little different can someone check the photo and let me know if I am dealing with the same situation?
Thanks!






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[whateg01]

a motor not wired for hi/low voltage can't be configured for low voltage operation. IOW, this motor requires 480V period. I don't know what your capabilities are or if there is anything special about the motor used, such as a longer than normal shaft, but you might be able to swap the motor for a 3ph model that will run on 240V or a single speed 1ph motor that will run on 120/240. Otherwise, you might be best flipping it and finding a more suitable model saw that is more plug-and-play for you.

 

[DarrenF]

This is the 25hp Baldor H2 drive powering my 10hp standard Modern 1660 lathe, fed by single phase. I'm feeding the VFD with #6 wire, through a contactor, motor protection switch/breaker, EMI filter, then to the VFD. Oddly enough, when I hooked it up to test it, I only had a 40 amp double pole breaker on hand. It could be capable of pulling 70 amps at full load. I was certain that it would trip the breaker, if not on startup, but on heavy cuts for sure. It never has, and i never changed to a larger breaker. I'm an amateur but have done a few 0.250 DOC cuts on mild steel and it doesn't even slow down. I built this system myself and i'm still dealing with/tuning out some minor issues, but for the most part, it works very well.

I also have a 3hp Kent mill, which is a Bridgeport clone, with an EVS 6000rpm head, single speed mechanically, no back gear. It is amazing. I can turn it down to 20rpm and it has full torque, and can crank it up to 6000 with the twist of the knob. Spindle stops instantly, has instant reverse. I have it running off a #10 feed/30amp breaker. Also single phase. It has a Parker Spindleblock VFD drive. It just works perfectly.

Yea, thats wrong, theres no low speed/high speed, just 0 to 6000rpm

I included the wiring diagram in case it helps someone.

I also have a Norton 6x12 surface grinder with a Teco l510 VFD (very very happy with this VFD), and am in the process of converting my 16" DoAll bandsaw and my Emco V10P Lathe to 3 phase with VFD's, both with Baldor VFD's , similar, but much smaller units than my big lathe.

 

[DarrenF]

I am assuming that the motor runs continuously and the lathe has a clutch drive. Most 3 phase input VFDs can be used with a single phase input, they needed to be derated by ~1.7 and it is also recommended to use a DC choke to decrease the fusing/breaker requirement and also the THD generated. Some of the larger VFD will have an integrated DC choke.

This is true, but you left something out. Almost every VFD/inverter will run on single phase, but you must be able to turn off "phase loss detection" . This is the key. Most new drives let you do this, but some don't. Consult factory literature. When looking on ebay, some drives will say 3ph in, 3ph out, but if you look in the manual, it will usually tell you how to run the drive from single phase. I passed up a million deals before i figured this out. Google is your friend here. Of course derating will happen when running any drive on single phase. To what degree you must derate is usually spelled out by the manufacturer

 

[Hot Chop shop]

a motor not wired for hi/low voltage can't be configured for low voltage operation. IOW, this motor requires 480V period. I don't know what your capabilities are or if there is anything special about the motor used, such as a longer than normal shaft, but you might be able to swap the motor for a 3ph model that will run on 240V or a single speed 1ph motor that will run on 120/240. Otherwise, you might be best flipping it and finding a more suitable model saw that is more plug-and-play for you.

Nooooooooo.... arrrrrgh

I appreciate the quick response. I’m so so very sad. I should have checked in here before purchasing... I was too excited to see one locally, they never pop Up... lesson learned... for some reason I always see massive milling machines in residential shops around here and see all the phase converters running them... I had no clue that some high voltage machines don’t do both.
I’m going to go put my head in the saw now. Don’t worry I’ll be fine not like i can power it.


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[slodat]

Open the motor junction box and see how many leads are brought out from the windings.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

Open the motor junction box and see how many leads are brought out from the windings.

Looks like 6 black and a ground.
Let me know if you need me to remove more to get farther down the rabbit hole.
Looking for a miracle.
Thanks!





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[ToolmanGary]

I have a Rockwell/Delta bandsaw 120v machine, I want to slow it down so I can cut steel with it.
Can I do this with a VFD?
Then which one do I need? It's either a 3/4 or 1hp motor. I'm looking on ebay and all I see are single phase to 3 phase VFD's. Can you just use the 120v terminals on the VFD?

 

[whateg01]

I have a Rockwell/Delta bandsaw 120v machine, I want to slow it down so I can cut steel with it.
Can I do this with a VFD?
Then which one do I need? It's either a 3/4 or 1hp motor. I'm looking on ebay and all I see are single phase to 3 phase VFD's. Can you just use the 120v terminals on the VFD?

Short answer is no, you need a 3ph motor. Then you can use a VFD to control the speed.

 

[ToolmanGary]

Short answer is no, you need a 3ph motor. Then you can use a VFD to control the speed.

That explains a YouTube video, they switched the saw to a motor 3ph and I was wondering why, I probably missed the part of the video explaining why.

Thanks!

 

[slodat]

Looks like 6 black and a ground.
Let me know if you need me to remove more to get farther down the rabbit hole.
Looking for a miracle.
Thanks!





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That looks like a two speed 480v motor. In order to use it on household 240, you will need a step up transformer to supply a 480v VFD appropriately sized for single phase supply.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

That looks like a two speed 480v motor. In order to use it on household 240, you will need a step up transformer to supply a 480v VFD appropriately sized for single phase supply.

Thanks for the response and the hope... surprisingly google doesn’t have that as an easy search to find. And I didn’t see one pop up on Amazon prime.
I’ll keep looking and search the form... someone I’m sure has done it and I’ll be able to use that as a guide. And if the transformer and vfd are more than I paid for the saw then I’ll admit defeat and try to sell it without taking too much a hit.
Thanks again


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[whateg01]

...And if the transformer and vfd are more than I paid for the saw then I’ll admit defeat and try to sell it without taking too much a hit.
Thanks again

I suspect that you'll find 480V VFDs to be more expensive than the 220V models. I also think you'll find the transformer to be a bit pricey. Of course, if you are able to locate used items, you might be able to get a good deal. A school surplus auction here this past week had a 480/240/120 transformer in it. I don't know what it ended up going for. As I wasn't going to be able to pick it up when it had to be picked up, I didn't pay close attention. Often industrial machines like the saw go for a steal because nobody knows how to feed them or are scared of them. It is going to cost money to get it to work for you; it's just a matter of how much. The less expensive way may be to find a different motor that you can use and adapt it.

 

[Hot Chop shop]

I suspect that you'll find 480V VFDs to be more expensive than the 220V models. I also think you'll find the transformer to be a bit pricey. Of course, if you are able to locate used items, you might be able to get a good deal. A school surplus auction here this past week had a 480/240/120 transformer in it. I don't know what it ended up going for. As I wasn't going to be able to pick it up when it had to be picked up, I didn't pay close attention. Often industrial machines like the saw go for a steal because nobody knows how to feed them or are scared of them. It is going to cost money to get it to work for you; it's just a matter of how much. The less expensive way may be to find a different motor that you can use and adapt it.

All good information. thanks! A while
Back I read this entire thread and afterwards I thought I was an expert on 3 phase to 1 phase vfd for that week.... unfortunately it shows how much I retained of it. I’m Always on the hunt for older machines/tools.
So I guess I’ve been lucky never running into a 480v only motor till now.


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[Firebrick43]

All good information. thanks! A while
Back I read this entire thread and afterwards I thought I was an expert on 3 phase to 1 phase vfd for that week.... unfortunately it shows how much I retained of it. I’m Always on the hunt for older machines/tools.
So I guess I’ve been lucky never running into a 480v only motor till now.


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That motor is sort of odd. On low speed alot of motors are 240 or 208 and high speed 480. It not that uncommon for them to be 480 low and 690 high but in the two factories that I have worked at as an industrial mechanic/electrician I have not seen to many that are 480 as wye and delta.

I have put 3 phase/vfd on a lot of my equipment. I normally buy a used inverter rated motor from ebay for 70-120 dollars. I slap a set of bearings in them and a coat of rattle can and have had very good luck so far. Most have a warranty to work upon arrival and motors rarely go bad on their own, its usually the load(and high current protection) that is attached to them that takes them out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Baldor-IDNM3581T-Motor/153941460777?hash=item23d7a04729:g:MJEAAOSwih9exosQ

I like the IDNM baldors for 1hp and lower. They are inverter rated so they can go down to 10 percent of rated speed and dont have/need a fan so they are quiet. Make sure you match up mount style of your existing motor vs new

 

[Hot Chop shop]

That motor is sort of odd. On low speed alot of motors are 240 or 208 and high speed 480. It not that uncommon for them to be 480 low and 690 high but in the two factories that I have worked at as an industrial mechanic/electrician I have not seen to many that are 480 as wye and delta.

I have put 3 phase/vfd on a lot of my equipment. I normally buy a used inverter rated motor from ebay for 70-120 dollars. I slap a set of bearings in them and a coat of rattle can and have had very good luck so far. Most have a warranty to work upon arrival and motors rarely go bad on their own, its usually the load(and high current protection) that is attached to them that takes them out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Baldor-IDNM3581T-Motor/153941460777?hash=item23d7a04729:g:MJEAAOSwih9exosQ

I like the IDNM baldors for 1hp and lower. They are inverter rated so they can go down to 10 percent of rated speed and dont have/need a fan so they are quiet. Make sure you match up mount style of your existing motor vs new

I was looking at selling it and I just read your post... so maybe I’ll pull the motor to see what I’m dealing with before i throw in the towel.
It’s weird the motor on my disc grinder and other bandsaw are pretty simple it’s a motor with a side plate bolted to a frame and a shaft that I’m assuming you press the flywheel “thingy” onto. The motor house on this one looks bolted around a flange. Hopefully it’s just a housing for the motor and once the motor is removed and replaced with a 3ph one I can reuse that housing. Then I just need to match the spindle diameter and length. Don’t worry I’ll read a bunch of post on motor swap before attempting.
Thanks all



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[whateg01]

What you see IS the motor. There are different ways for motors to be mounted. To swap to a different motor you will need to find one that mounts the same way. You can't really just take the guts from one and swap them into another.

 

[MKSJ]

Actually modern VFD's you do not turn off the phase loss on the input, if so you can burn the VFD up and it also voids the warranty. I have done 100's of VFD installs with both Hitachi and Yakawa VFD's , you do not disable the input phase loss. You need to read the specific manual for the model of VFD specific to the derating and also operation for single phase. Most modern VFD's work off of THD distortion triggering a phase loss/error on the input which is much higher with a single phase input, a native single phase VFD is just an oversized 3 phase VFD. In addition many manufactures indicate you should use a DC buss choke to both decrease the THD and also decrease the input fusing requirements.

As far as the 480V motor on the bandsaw, the alternative options could be expensive to feed it 3 phase. An RPC followed by a step-up transformer may be an easier option but can be costly unless you can get some inexpensive used ones. Step transformer followed by a 480V VFD derated for single phase input is also not a simple option. I also haven't had good success running 2 speed motors off of a VFD (wired as a single speed) with the exception of constant Hp motors. I would pull the motor, most likely metric and measure it up to see if you can adapt a 230VAC motor. Some motors come with a flange, but most likely you would need an adapter plate between the motor and machine. Worth looking at.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I suspect that you'll find 480V VFDs to be more expensive than the 220V models. I also think you'll find the transformer to be a bit pricey. Of course, if you are able to locate used items, you might be able to get a good deal. A school surplus auction here this past week had a 480/240/120 transformer in it. I don't know what it ended up going for. As I wasn't going to be able to pick it up when it had to be picked up, I didn't pay close attention. Often industrial machines like the saw go for a steal because nobody knows how to feed them or are scared of them. It is going to cost money to get it to work for you; it's just a matter of how much. The less expensive way may be to find a different motor that you can use and adapt it.

per horsepower, higher voltage drives are usually cheaper than low voltage drives. higher voltage rated components typically cost less than components rated for double the amps.

 

[goingtoarizona]

I am trying to install a commercial three phase washer (Dexter T400) and bought a no name VFD from Ebay. I suppose that's my first mistake. The instructions were complete garbage and I actually tossed them as my dog was able to tell me more about the VFD than the instructions did.

I connected it and the machine came alive, but it's set to 50Hz. I went through the programming and tried to change it, but it's still at 50Hz. (The display says 50.00 and I checked it and it's putting out 49.9 Hz) My washer is 60Hz and the coin acceptor computer doesn't like this. When I drop a coin in the acceptor the whole machine shuts off.

I'm open to recommendations on buying another VFD. The motor is rated at 1HP and this thing needs to stay on 24/7 as it's going into my laundromat.

Thanks in advance.

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I would leave the electronics on line power and use the VFD to run the motor only. instead of triggering the motor contactor, just send the run signal to the VFD. many things don't work right when run off a VFD's output. Many VFDs won't like it either.

 

[goingtoarizona]

That makes sense, but the washer agitates both ways and has a high speen spin. It uses three contactors and I think I'd rather sell it and buy a single phase unit before I cut up and modify the wiring that drastically. I'll see if I can reprogram the VFD to 60Hz and see how trat goes first.

Thanks