Show us Your Vintage Bench Grinders!!!!

[McBrownie]

Outlaw and Jake,

I like the idea of a light cleaning of the wood with some polyurethane. It is 40+ year-old plywood. I'm also planning on giving that old motor some attention and try to get the slop out of the armature. Once I do that, it should be a very quiet machine. I might even fab up a "splash plate" of sorts to buffing off of the motor.

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll be sure to post "after" pictures.

 

[67carl]

This Craftsman 1/2hp block came up for sale. Looks complete (eye shields, tool rests, light) plus 1/2 dozen extra wheels. Seller says came from grandpa's estate. I plan on asking about other tools if I get a response. General comments on it's birthdate, value, etc...? Sent the seller a text asking about it's running condition and am waiting to hear back. Asking $50 but I feel that is a little high. What say you?

 

[WWIIjeep]

General comments on it's birthdate, value, etc...? Asking $50 but I feel that is a little high. What say you?

Looks mid/late '70s to early '80s to me.

Also looks like it's missing the left-side tool rest, so that makes $50 a little iffy unless it's in perfect running condition, but the extra wheels could make up for the missing tool rest.

 

[drivesitfar]

67: i agree with WWII on all points. these old Block grinders clean up nicely and you probably already have seen the block grinder thread. if not there is so many good guys on their to help you if you need any and lots and lots of restore threads to look at if you want to make it like new.

the only other thing i can add to WWII's comments is that if the guard is missing on the one side make sure the arbor isn't bent from being dropped. also maybe ask and/or look to see if it is just sitting on a bench or in the box with the extra wheels. also since it's pretty dirty plug it in and turn it on and off a few times to see how it runs.

 

[67carl]

Oh, I've seen the block grinder thread! That thread is responsible for the 2 Craftsman blocks I already own! It's become a habit to look on craigslist now for vises and block grinders, even though I don't need any more. I blame you guys for the growing pile of restoration projects I'm accumulating!

I'm missing the right tool rest on one of mine so I could take that part. This one also has eye shields, which mine are missing, although these appear to be plastic. So, don't really need another one other than scrounging parts. I may offer $25 and see if he'll take it. If not, no big loss.

Thanks!

 

[joe.striper]

Heres my grinder station, Dayton 3/4 hp grinder, recently restored
kalamazoo belt sander and 1/5 hp baldor disc sander.

 

[McBrownie]

I tore into my homemade buffer today which can be seen a few posts back. I want to rewire the Fairbanks-Morse motor and add a washer or two to the armature to remove about an 1/8" of play. However, when I look at the end plate, I see a screw at the bottom of the picture that looks like it adjusts something. Before I losen anything up, does anyone know what this screw does? By the way, the brass nameplate that has lubrication instructions is pretty cool.

 

[McBrownie]

I also cleaned up the frame, but not too much, and found an almost exact match for the original handle color. I put on two coats of Helmsman Spar varnish with no stain. The plywood has just aged to a dark color. I also wire wheeled the metal parts to remove rust. All of these old bits are cleaning up nicely. I am keeping with your suggestions and trying to bring this back to a better version of the original. Btw, that means that some colors aren't going to match.

Here is sneak preview.

 

[McBrownie]

Heres my grinder station, Dayton 3/4 hp grinder, recently restored
kalamazoo belt sander and 1/5 hp baldor disc sander.

Joe, I really like that Kalamazoo. I also like the box of Parker pieces waiting to put those machines through their paces.

 

[Badattitude]

I'm not sure if this is vintage or not, as I know nothing about it. I did google the model # and came up with nothing.

I bought it from a friend for $25 back in the early 80's. Missing the guards and whatnot.

Anyone no more about its origins?

 

[McBrownie]

I'm not sure if this is vintage or not, as I know nothing about it. I did google the model # and came up with nothing.

I bought it from a friend for $25 back in the early 80's. Missing the guards and whatnot.

Anyone no more about its origins?

That looks like an old one. From vintage machinery:

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=2048

"In 1932 General Motors bought Packard Electric Co., of Warren Ohio, (which had been founded in 1890, and spun off the Packard Motor Car Co. in 1902). In 1943, Sunlight Electric's small motor production was consolidated with Packard. It was later renamed Packard Electric Division-General Motors Corporation (Warren Ohio)."

Since it has both Sunlight and Packard on the label, I would assume it was from right around the time of the consolidation or mid-40's. Does it still run?

 

[Badattitude]

Sunlight?
So that's what it says!!! For the life of me I couldn't figure out what all the letters were.

Oh Yeah...it runs like a bear!

Damn, if it's that old...and here I assumed it was nothing special.
Thanks for the info!

 

[drivesitfar]

Bad: thanks for posting the old grinder you took for granted that it was just an ok grinder.

McB: thanks for reading the label that i couldn't. i did see Packard and made in the USA up above and glad you figured out the rest. also thanks for the history lesson on the companies involved in making it.

 

[7th Kahuna]

I don't know what it is, but rusty tools have a habit of following me home. Once there, they form up into a growing que where they quietly await my attention. I'm certain many of you can identify. This weekend, I finally brought home a tool to IMMEDIATELY help expedite the line.

I watched this one for more than a month. Advertised as a grinder, it started out at $200. When it hit $100, I inquired if they had the guards or tool rests. "No". Simultaneously and without saying a word, they dropped the price to $80. Finally after slowly trading emails for the better part of a week, I was informed the cord had been damaged and would need to be replaced. Of course that also meant there would be no way to test it. I offered $60. "Sold". When I went to pick it up, it was obvious how the cord was damaged; they had sold the base to someone else. "Yeah, a couple days ago, someone offered us $100 for the base alone. Can you believe it?" I didn't so much have a problem with them selling the base, though I would have liked to have it. What bothered me was they hadn't said anything. Mad, I offered $30. They accepted and, still focused on the missing cord, offered to refund my money if it gave me any problems.

From the ad:

Turned out it never was a grinder.

I've kicked myself for the last 2 years after passing up a similar Baldor for $25. That was before I realized I would have a use for one. Of course you always hear about Baldor buffers and grinders. Is anyone familiar with this Rockwell (Delta) model? Any issues? This is their long shaft buffer which appears to have been introduced in 1960 or 61. I threw on a temporary cord, careful to match the original wiring. The leads from the winding itself seemed fine. This leads me to my first serious quesion:

How much heat buildup is normal? This motor is fully sealed so I expect the case is going to get warm but it warmed noticeably in less than 10 minutes. Anyone else have experience with that?

My other question is, how freely should the arbor spin? It turns easily enough but if I spin it by hand it only goes a revolution or so before it stops. I am aware there are seals on the arbor. Those could be causing the drag, or I might need new bearings, or? And where is all the oil build-up coming from? It was worse, I've been cleaning. It is mostly on the top side so I'm not too worried.


As a side note, I'm glad the PO and I didn't fool with the cord. It certainly would have shorted. Consider this a friendly reminder to inspect your old corded tools, be they portable or stationary. This insulation was only 45 years old (born Summer 1969) and even within the base it had the stability of a saltine cracker.

So here she is at home:

Her papers (23-233):

I have read several places that you need to use a guard with a wire wheel. Is that equally true of all wire wheels or is it more an issue with newer / cheaper wheels / imports? This machine was originally sold without one.

Thanks

 

[McBrownie]

7th, here is another Rockwell a few pages back. Post #328

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4093458&highlight=Rockwell#post4093458

Too bad about that stand. It looked like they were a matched set. Any way of finding out who the buyer was?

 

[7th Kahuna]

7th, here is another Rockwell a few pages back. Post #328

Too bad about that stand. It looked like they were a matched set. Any way of finding out who the buyer was?

Thanks, yes, I read through the thread looking for info. That one is similar but different. One of the posts mentioned that Rockwell put their motors out to bid every three years. Mine is a Marathon motor, which was kind of a surprise since I also read that Doerr had the contract in 1969.

As for the base, it was apparently purchased by someone in the next county. One day I will find another one. I would have taken it for the price but realistically I don't have space for it right now.

 

[454ragtop]

Got to wonder what ***** offered $100 for the base off a quality US made buffer that had an asking price of $80.00? Oh well, nice buffer.
Jim

 

[ArtDeco]

I skimmed through this thread for a while today. I don't have a bench grinder. I need a bench grinder. I need a vintage bench grinder.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Got to wonder what ***** offered $100 for the base off a quality US made buffer that had an asking price of $80.00? Oh well, nice buffer.
Jim

Yeah, I was looking at the whole package for $100. Either the conversation had been going on longer than the seller indicated, or maybe the seller had run (and failed to update) a second ad in the neighboring county.

 

[Outlawmws]

I skimmed through this thread for a while today. I don't have a bench grinder. I need a bench grinder. I need a vintage bench grinder.

And another one bites the dust!

 

[ArtDeco]

And another one bites the dust!

you know... I probably need a bench first but I don't think that nonsense matters much

 

[Outlawmws]

you know... I probably need a bench first but I don't think that nonsense matters much

Bench not required. either earlier in this thread and definitely in others, I've given my recipe for managing bench tools:

B&D Workmate (2XX or higher, NOT one of the "TV tray" types....)
mount the bench tool (grinder, smaller vise, arbor press, reloading presses strip sanders, disk sanders... etc,) on a mounting pad or thick plywood. Then add a cleat on the bottom for the WM to grip. I like to add a piece so from the end it looks like an inverted "T" with a fat leg, that acts as a safety so the cleat can't pop out of the WM jaws under duress.

If you make the plates the same width, you can make a "bookcase" from a couple of 1X12's and add shelf standards to store the mounted tools on when not in use.

That way you have ONE messy station, and as many tools as you need for whatever it is you do...

 

[ArtDeco]

Bench not required. either earlier in this thread and definitely in others, I've given my recipe for managing bench tools:

B&D Workmate (2XX or higher, NOT one of the "TV tray" types....)
mount the bench tool (grinder, smaller vise, arbor press, reloading presses strip sanders, disk sanders... etc,) on a mounting pad or thick plywood. Then add a cleat on the bottom for the WM to grip. I like to add a piece so from the end it looks like an inverted "T" with a fat leg, that acts as a safety so the cleat can't pop out of the WM jaws under duress.

If you make the plates the same width, you can make a "bookcase" from a couple of 1X12's and add shelf standards to store the mounted tools on when not in use.

That way you have ONE messy station, and as many tools as you need for whatever it is you do...

Thanks for the tips...

I've actually got a cheap bottom cabinet that I picked up at the flea. I wanted the top chest and had to buy both. I'll probably put in under the carport for now and hope for the best.

I doubt I'll be bolting on my Wiltons but a bench grinder seems feasible.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Bench not required. either earlier in this thread and definitely in others, I've given my recipe for managing bench tools:

B&D Workmate (2XX or higher, NOT one of the "TV tray" types....)

Apparently I haven't been giving the Workmate its due respect. That's a darn good idea.

 

[WWIIjeep]

This leads me to my first serious quesion:

How much heat buildup is normal? This motor is fully sealed so I expect the case is going to get warm but it warmed noticeably in less than 10 minutes. Anyone else have experience with that?

My other question is, how freely should the arbor spin? It turns easily enough but if I spin it by hand it only goes a revolution or so before it stops. I am aware there are seals on the arbor. Those could be causing the drag, or I might need new bearings, or? And where is all the oil build-up coming from? It was worse, I've been cleaning. It is mostly on the top side so I'm not too worried.

The motor plate should tell you what the temperature rise is supposed to be.

It will say something like "Rise 40C Cont." or "Rise 50C Cont." That means the temperature can increase as much as 40 or 50 degrees Centigrade above ambient temperature.

The bearings, rather than the seals, may be causing heat build up if they're approaching end of life and most of the grease has dried up or leaked out, allowing more friction.

I have read several places that you need to use a guard with a wire wheel. Is that equally true of all wire wheels or is it more an issue with newer / cheaper wheels / imports? This machine was originally sold without one.

Frankly, I think it's safer to use a wire wheel without a guard. With a guard, small parts can end up getting caught in the guard if the wheel catches them and pulls them out of your hand. Then they fly around the inside of the guard and get thrown out at you anyway.

Wear safety glasses, or better yet, a face shield, when using a wire wheel.

 

[7th Kahuna]

The motor plate should tell you what the temperature rise is supposed to be.

It will say something like "Rise 40C Cont." or "Rise 50C Cont." That means the temperature can increase as much as 40 or 50 degrees Centigrade above ambient temperature.

Ah, thanks for the explanation. They don't exactly make it clear.

Max Ambient 40° C - So the operational temp is ambient plus 40°? It was 90° today so this buffer could potentially maintain a surface temp of 130°?

The bearings, rather than the seals, may be causing heat build up if they're approaching end of life and most of the grease has dried up or leaked out, allowing more friction.

I guess it may be time to pull apart my first motor . . .

Frankly, I think it's safer to use a wire wheel without a guard. With a guard, small parts can end up getting caught in the guard if the wheel catches them and pulls them out of your hand.

Half the safety devices out there seem to make one element of the operation safer while making three others less so. I was considering making some basic guards but I suspect you are right. I would rather have the lost piece thrown to the floor than whipped around inside the guard and thrown back at me.

Thanks for your input.

 

[WWIIjeep]

Ah, thanks for the explanation. They don't exactly make it clear.

Max Ambient 40° C - So the operational temp is ambient plus 40°? It was 90° today so this buffer could potentially maintain a surface temp of 130°?

Celsius/Centigrade, not Fahrenheit. 90F is about 32C (because I doubt you meant it was 90C in LA today), so 32C + 40C = 72C, or 162F inside the motor, so yeah, the outside could easily get to 130F or a little more.

The markings on your motor are the modern way of marking the temperature rating. What I described in my earlier post was the old way, which is how I assumed your motor was marked. The older way is easier to understand than the new way, which requires that you know the temperature limits for the various classes of insulation on the motor windings.

With class A windings and 40C ambient temperature, at sustained full load your motor could potentially get considerably hotter than 72C. The likelihood of it ever actually getting that hot on the outside of the case is slim.

Practically speaking, on a 90F day, you can probably touch the motor housing with your hand, but you wouldn't want to leave your hand on it.

 

[Tarnished]

Kahuna,
I picked up a slightly newer version (1979) of your buffer a while back. Like yours, it is waiting in queue for new wiring. Too bad about the stand, it looked like one of the early cast version. My stand is cast base with steel column. Don't see many of these around my area, especially with the guards. Think it was only intended for cloth pad wheels, never for wire wheel's. Although that is what I wanted to put on it was wire wheels, I am not sure it would work well with the guards on.
Here is the PARTS LIST if you need it.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Celsius/Centigrade, not Fahrenheit. 90F is about 32C (because I doubt you meant it was 90C in LA today), so 32C + 40C = 72C, or 162F inside the motor, so yeah, the outside could easily get to 130F or a little more.

Funny, I knew they had different zero points but apparently I forgot about them having different unit sizes. Either that or I slept through class that day.

All worked out in the end though. Thanks for the help. I'd say the warm up was within range, but I'll still plan on opening it up to check the inside.

 

[7th Kahuna]

Don't see many of these around my area, especially with the guards. Think it was only intended for cloth pad wheels, never for wire wheel's.

I haven't seen them around here either. As common as other Delta Rockwell tools are, if the Craigslist ads are any indication, Baldor has the buffer market cornered. Those guards are pretty substantial but I'm with you, I don't see them working very well with wire wheels. Hopefully you have the pieces there you need to adapt it.

Thanks for sharing and thanks for the link. I had checked out VintageMachinery.org too. Even they had very few of these buffers registered. I guess I need to get pictures of mine uploaded.

If you spin yours by hand, does it rotate more than a couple times before it stops?

 

[BJ42LX]

$5

It's missing the obligatory end plate and tool rest. But I think I can scrounge something up. Needs a new cord. Smooth as buttah.

 

[RedVise]

Miller Falls bench grinder, not complete , but cool enough.



Brian

 

[Alan Douglas]

Well, nobody has shown one of these yet. I have no idea how old it is and there's no name on it. It looks newer than the stand but that seems unlikely (what else would a stand like that be good for?). Honestly I have never used it, as it has always been quicker to spend a little more time with the bench stone, sharpening plane irons, than to get this thing running and then drain the water afterward..

 

[Fretters]

Picked up this little beastie a couple of weeks ago.

Minor surface rust on the inside of the casting, but it's in too good original nick to warrant being redone, I think, (even though it is grey ).

 

[WWIIjeep]

Well, nobody has shown one of these yet. I have no idea how old it is and there's no name on it. It looks newer than the stand but that seems unlikely (what else would a stand like that be good for?).

It was made by the Prairie Tool Co. Can be found under that brand name, and also rebadged and sold by Sears under the Craftsman brand. Prairie went out of business about 10 years ago.

If the blue paint is original, or a restoration of the original, your Prairie probably came from Sears in the 1940s-50s.

The stand looks like a well-executed home-built.

 

[Outlawmws]

Alan, what size wheel does that wet grinder have (Do I see 10" on the side?), and how slow does it go?

I have a very similar 9" with a Monkey Wards brass tag, that uses a Bodine gear reduction motor, plus one set of reduction pulleys. Mine has slightly curved front and back on the basin

 

[McBrownie]

HomeMade Alert: I finished this one a few weeks ago and have finally found the time to post.

To review a previous post, this is a homemade grinder that my dad built back in the 60's or 70's with a Fairbanks-Morse 1/4hp motor that was from a well at our house, a Companion No. 1 arbor, some scrap plywood and an old broom handle. I'm sure he didn't buy anything, just reused what was laying around. When I posted this earlier, I asked for some feedback about what to do with it. Some suggestions were "light restoration", "keep it as close to original as possible" and "polyurethane the **** out of it". All good suggestions, so let's get to the pictures.

Before:
View media item 42566
Yep, I used the suggestion for plenty of polyurethane. "Helmsman Spar Varnish" to be specific. And, in trying to keep with the "keep it looking orginal" comment, I even found matching paint for the broom handle.
View media item 42568
Then, I had to do some work on the motor. There was about 1/16" of play in the shaft end-to-end. I very carefully took it apart and added a copper washer to take up that slack. One look at the wiring and decided it was better to leave it as it was. A shot of black paint and clear over the name plate was in order too.
View media item 42567View media item 42862
The next steps involved firing up my good old 1/2hp block grinder and shining up the metal pieces. I didn't touch the arbor because it was a cool mix of green over blue over red that took years to create. I little clean up is all it got. I even sprung for a new cogged belt. The old one had gotten pretty stiff.
View media item 42864View media item 42865
Some scrap aluminum made a good holder for the new cord. I used a plastic junction box painted black to hold a NOS On/Off switch.
View media item 42863
Time for some action shots and check out the splash guard that I made to keep the **** off of the motor.
View media item 42859View media item 42860
It runs as smooth as ever and is a nice little buffer. I hope this helps it on it's way for another 40 years.

 

[exmaxima1]

Thanks, yes, I read through the thread looking for info. That one is similar but different. One of the posts mentioned that Rockwell put their motors out to bid every three years. Mine is a Marathon motor, which was kind of a surprise since I also read that Doerr had the contract in 1969.

I recently bought a similar Rockwell 7-inch "bench" grinder with the matching stand, and I recall it being around 1966 model. It also was made by Marathon. The cast iron stand actually looks identical to Baldor stands.

Any comments on how those grinders compare to Baldors? It seems very heavily constructed and the glass guards with dual bulbs are very cool looking.

 

[jakemac]

HomeMade Alert: I finished this one a few weeks ago and have finally found the time to post.

Brownie - Great job on bringing your dad's buffer back to life. I'm sure he'd be proud to know it's being used again.

 

[nine4gmc]

Good job McBrownie!