Oldtuleguy
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Hoot mon?
Show your "Long C" Craftsman!
- Thread starter Outlawmws
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d42jeep
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That transition went on for a while. Here is my new ‘52 saw in the Heritage box and a picture of it in the ‘52 catalog but the label on the saw itself looks Long C to me.
-Don
-Don
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Smokeshow69
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Private Lugnutz
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And started at least as early as 1948, which exhibits the same mix of logos.
Smokeshow69
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It’s a wrench for gas torches and their various fittings
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Catfishdan
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I had to look it up. “A Scottish interjection meaning ‘hey man’”. Seems like a strange image for the back of a catalog.
Smokeshow69
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I agree, I thought it was weird? I wonder if maybe sears used the Scotts in other advertising? I would assume there is some context we are missing
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Oldtuleguy
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This may derive from scots being known as thrifty.
http://www.rampantscotland.com/humour/blhumthrift.htm
Bonney also used the stereotype “thrifty Scot” as an advertising image, particularly with their “Bon-E-Con” line. Part of the utility of the visual image lies in exploiting the Anglocentric mainstream’s ready recognition and association of the tam o’ shanter and double-tartan with Highland Scots.
Clan McDuck.
I think there are regional alternates, where similar cultural boundaries abut in commerce. The “Dutchman,” as in using something, specifically a bit of veneer (woodworking), or more generally, anything repurposed or otherwise not quite right and always free or cheaper than the correct item to effect a repair. Also “going Dutch” or “Dutch treat,” when an invited guest pays his/her own expenses. In New England, “Yankee thrift” among the “Down-Easters” is maybe not as widely-known as “Yankee ingenuity?”
Bonney also used the stereotype “thrifty Scot” as an advertising image, particularly with their “Bon-E-Con” line. Part of the utility of the visual image lies in exploiting the Anglocentric mainstream’s ready recognition and association of the tam o’ shanter and double-tartan with Highland Scots.
Clan McDuck.
I think there are regional alternates, where similar cultural boundaries abut in commerce. The “Dutchman,” as in using something, specifically a bit of veneer (woodworking), or more generally, anything repurposed or otherwise not quite right and always free or cheaper than the correct item to effect a repair. Also “going Dutch” or “Dutch treat,” when an invited guest pays his/her own expenses. In New England, “Yankee thrift” among the “Down-Easters” is maybe not as widely-known as “Yankee ingenuity?”
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Private Lugnutz
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That was my immediate thought the first time I saw it on-line a few years ago on Tool Archives. I think the accompanying text makes it unmistakable.
Smokeshow69
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I forgot about the scotts being viewed as thrifty. This makes sense now
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Private Lugnutz
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No sweat, Smoke. And I totally get it being odd. The allusion (and any other ethnic behavioral stereotyping...) would definitely border on uncomfortably awkward today, especially given the fine line between thrifty and cheap. It doesn't help that the phrase "scot-free", which has nothing to do with Scotland or Scottish people, is often mistakenly taken that way.
Actually, scot-free is the result, under Scottish law, if the prosecution fails to prove guilt, isn’t it? “Not proven.” As opposed to English law, where the accused has burden of proof.
Edit - no, guess not. Read an incorrect derivation sometime in the dark ages before the internet, and it stuck with me. How many things that I “know” are actually not true?
Also, I had seen some ads last summer in old auto magazines that utterly eclipse, in the use of racial/ethnic caricature, a cultural stereotype like the one under discussion.
On Spongebob Squarepants, Mr Crabs (voiced by Clancy Brown) is repeatedly portrayed as cheap, as are all crabs. There’s an episode where there is a contest for “cheapest crab.” His accent is not Scottish, but what I take to be a West Country or “pirate” accent, popularized by actor Robert Newton.
Edit - no, guess not. Read an incorrect derivation sometime in the dark ages before the internet, and it stuck with me. How many things that I “know” are actually not true?
Also, I had seen some ads last summer in old auto magazines that utterly eclipse, in the use of racial/ethnic caricature, a cultural stereotype like the one under discussion.
On Spongebob Squarepants, Mr Crabs (voiced by Clancy Brown) is repeatedly portrayed as cheap, as are all crabs. There’s an episode where there is a contest for “cheapest crab.” His accent is not Scottish, but what I take to be a West Country or “pirate” accent, popularized by actor Robert Newton.
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Thank you, Smokeshow69!
Smokeshow69
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wrenchguy
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103 0213, 8" table saw in gray-brown. Table is about 15" x 18". I thought it should be in blue? I believe i got the original motor with it. It wasn't mounted on a bench just sitting on the saw.
What year range might this be? I got some other complete craftsman stuff at a live farm auction last friday at good prices. Not many people there. What are the bored cast brackets other cast piece for? The brackets fit the fence bar.
Family member said this motor was original to saw. He never used it, it was his dads.
What year range might this be? I got some other complete craftsman stuff at a live farm auction last friday at good prices. Not many people there. What are the bored cast brackets other cast piece for? The brackets fit the fence bar.
Family member said this motor was original to saw. He never used it, it was his dads.
JoCoSawdust
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Cool saw wrench guy. It's definitely pre-war. I was going to attach a catalog clip from 1938 but then noticed while the saw is the same, the fence is different so I'll keep looking. That saw seems to go through several small visual changes through the years but is still showing up in early 50s catalogs wearing a Dunlap badge.
My first thought on the brackets was that they were for an infeed/outfeed roller accessory. They differ from those used later on but perhaps? They'd hold a wooden roller pin looking piece to support longer work. I've just done a cursory breeze through the older catalogs and haven't ran across them yet. As for the motor, Sears sold machines back then without motors (you bought the motor separately) so you can find about anything powering these old Craftsman machines. That very well may be the original motor, either purchased separately from Sears or scavanged off something else. Nice find and if I can find that exact saw I'll get back to you with a closer date range.EDIT: The blue on orange Long C logo is unique. I've seen it here and there, particularly on really old machines but again, there doesn't seem to be any definitive pattern to when they used them. Like the newer Heritage logo, there's several variants out there to the Long C logo. I always like seeing the blue on orange ones.
My first thought on the brackets was that they were for an infeed/outfeed roller accessory. They differ from those used later on but perhaps? They'd hold a wooden roller pin looking piece to support longer work. I've just done a cursory breeze through the older catalogs and haven't ran across them yet. As for the motor, Sears sold machines back then without motors (you bought the motor separately) so you can find about anything powering these old Craftsman machines. That very well may be the original motor, either purchased separately from Sears or scavanged off something else. Nice find and if I can find that exact saw I'll get back to you with a closer date range.EDIT: The blue on orange Long C logo is unique. I've seen it here and there, particularly on really old machines but again, there doesn't seem to be any definitive pattern to when they used them. Like the newer Heritage logo, there's several variants out there to the Long C logo. I always like seeing the blue on orange ones.
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JoCoSawdust
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Here we go. This is from 1943. Earlier versions of this saw had a piece of flat bar stock as the fence guide. Yours is round as in the clip. This makes sense in regards to the color. The war effort was on and DPs I have from this era are all gray. I'm still not seeing those brackets in the available accesories but if they fit the round fence guide I'm betting they served to hold a dowel to be used as infeed support.
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wrenchguy
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Thank you! What is the function of the rods installed on the miter?
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Provincial
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I see no photo that shows the miter, but if a rod has an "L" on the end of it, it is likely a stop for repeat cuts. Another use for rods is for "fingers" to apply pressure to hold the work down and/or against the fence. The fingers are usually flat springs mounted to rods.
wrenchguy
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I had to open the screen shot attachment JoCo posted. Those are the rods i was wondering.
outofbounds
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Looking for some expert input. Looking at a 3/4" drive set. The seller is a little prickly so I am approaching him with kid gloves and was hoping I could do some due diligence here rather than running him around and exasperating him, and certainly not interested in tipping him off on additional information to have him pull back and try and raise his price (yes, he is like that)
Can anyone comment on these pics and indicate if everything contained in the box represents legit Long C components? Also, I've never heard of "BM" sockets. Wondering the maker on these. Thanks in advance!!
Can anyone comment on these pics and indicate if everything contained in the box represents legit Long C components? Also, I've never heard of "BM" sockets. Wondering the maker on these. Thanks in advance!!
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Smokeshow69
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BM is made by sk... they used that vendor code before changing to circle k. According to rileysan, there are 4 BM marking variants. That is a good set. How much is the seller asking if you don’t mind saying?
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outofbounds
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He's looking for $100. Not sure what I can work him down to. Like I said, he's prickly and temperamental. My past dealings haven't always worked out.
Smokeshow69
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Show your "Long C" Craftsman!
Try to work him down but don’t lose the deal...the long C logo set runs up to 1943. Here is a catalog snapshot. Jocosawdust or rileysan can weigh in on the price but I think that is a pretty good deal!
Try to work him down but don’t lose the deal...the long C logo set runs up to 1943. Here is a catalog snapshot. Jocosawdust or rileysan can weigh in on the price but I think that is a pretty good deal!
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outofbounds
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I'm more a buyer/seller, so I'm always trying to understand what the "end of the rainbow" guy would pay I suppose. I fired my first salvo at the guy, and he's firm at $99 (for now)
He's had it listed for at least 3 weeks (if not longer) but is off the beaten path and shipping has got to be a killer for that set. I have the oppportunity to be on his doorstep with cash tomorrow, so we'll see.
Smokeshow69
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That set looks pretty clean and the box looks straight. If the tools are not marked and the box isn’t rusty, I think it’s a good deal?
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outofbounds
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Thanks for the insights, Smoke! Interestingly, I just now could see the catalog attachement you added above. I think that's the earliest I personally have seen reference to "Super-Tuff" steel.
I always thought that was a moniker that was ushered in with Craftsman's working relationship with Moore.......
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Rileysan
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That is an exceptional pre-war set, and very difficult to find complete in that condition. It took me 3 years to complete my own and I wouldn't hesitate to buy it right now for the asking price. It would easily bring in excess of $200 on eBay. If someone tried talking me down in price for that set, I'd be temperamental, too!
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JoCoSawdust
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Catalog complete, box looks to be in good shape, logo is a strong 80+ percent intact and the chrome looks good. I'd snag it at the asking price but then I'm purely a collector/trader so I don't approach buys looking at what I can flip something for. That set would be worth 100 bucks to me to add to my collection. Brian may have a different opinion but I think he runs across a lot more 3/4d stuff in his neck of the woods than I do. I can't even find a decent =V= 3/4d set to fill a box I have.
JoCoSawdust
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You beat me to it Brian!
Smokeshow69
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I was having technology issues with the attachment so it was touch and go for a bit[emoji23] if I was you I would run, not walk to the exit to get that set! I did notice the super tough steel reference. MDF tools were introduced in 1945 so maybe that was an introduction to the term of sorts!
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outofbounds
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Thanks to all you guys! I am working it out now with the seller. I'll post better pics when I have in hand. the set itself does appear clean, but I've "taken a flyer" before, only to come crashing down to earth like Icarus......
Oldtuleguy
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Rileysan
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Yes, yes - some of us are already bidding on it because we want the extensions to replace the hammered ones in our set.
Username already in use
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I can't tell from the pics, but are the extensions marked? I have a similar set, but the extensions aren't marked, so likely wartime production.