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Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

Private Lugnutz

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I do not have a single /32 drive size in my circle-H sets. However, I have seen them in the BE sets. I'm not saying they are exclusively BE, but I would be interested to learn if they exist in Circle-H.
You may be right. Listing those was more or less a function of trying to figure out why there is such a capacity for so many sockets in those trays and using a typical superset. I'd have to go back and look at older photos as most of my previously owned Circle-H stuff has been moved to other collectors.
 
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bill300d

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A lot of individual pieces of BE and circle-H no matter the drive size that I have in the past picked up had that coating and thought that it was just dried oil buildup from not being wiped off. Recently I picked up a near complete 1/2 drive circle-H set sans the nice box like yours Lugz and every piece is coated although some of it is worn or scraped off. The coating when scraped chips off like a thin coat of shellac. Like you I am torn weather to remove it all or leave it be. For now it will stay as is.
 

Private Lugnutz

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A lot of individual pieces of BE and circle-H no matter the drive size that I have in the past picked up had that coating and thought that it was just dried oil buildup from not being wiped off.
Essentially, that's what it is, Bill, but apparently on a massive, deliberate scale and scope. I just went through a few Craftsman catalogs to see if they mention how the pieces and sets would be delivered, which some catalogs do, but I couldn't find any reference to it one way or another.

bill300d said:
sans the nice box like yours
It is nice, but as long as you bring it up, I will admit that I am not convinced it's original to the Circle-H pieces. For a few reasons. First and foremost, because it's clearly used (desiccated leather handle, scratches and dents, etc) and the pieces are not. Secondly, while many of the examples in this thread seem to demonstrate the interesting late 40's transition period I was discussing a few pages back - tools with Long C logo markings in boxes with "Heritage" logo (=CRAFTSMAN=) badges - the forged-in "11-45" marking on the ratchet would be very early for a Heritage badge. Todd tracked it down to October 1946 at the earliest if I recall correctly.
 

Rileysan

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Since I've been blathering on all day, I might as well keep on rolling. I took the time to clean up my 1/4" drive set(s) so I could see what I'm missing. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that I have a cross bar with my Circle-H breaker bar!

I acquired this Circle-H set from another GJ member in trade for a WWII hip-roof tool box (was it you Lugz?). It came in a Stevens/Walden socket box and had remained in that state until today.

Back in September, I found a really rusty 1/4" drive socket box at an estate sale. I gave a buck for it, cleaned it up, then set it aside after I found the long-C Craftsman logo inside the cover. Today, my Circle-H set found a new home - however ugly this box might be!

AFAIK, the only thing I'm missing from the set is a 6-pt 3/8" socket. I have duplicates in most of the other sockets and a breaker bar (which are reserved for Smokeshow at the moment).

I also laid out my BE set next to my Circle-H What I find interesting is that there were 12-pt sockets amongst the BE sockets. Out of curiosity, does anyone here have any 1/4" drive, 12-pt Circle-H sockets? I'd like to know if they exist!

Brian
 

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Rileysan

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Just for kicks, I laid out and photographed all three of my Craftsman Circle-H breaker bars (1/2", 3/8", 1/4") with their cross bars in place. I'm certain it's not very often you'll find all three of these in the same place!

Brian
 

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Rileysan

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You may ask yourself - is he ever going to shut up? Even I am wondering that myself! This is what happens now that I'm getting settled into my new home.

I have this Craftsman Circle-H 1/2" drive Ell-handle driver. I've always wondered at the usefulness of such a thing, but whatever. Recently I found another one with a broached end to receive a driver or extension. It has no maker's mark, but the knurling is identical to other NB/Husky/Craftsman tools. Just curious of anyone can positively identify a set that it might belong to.

Brian
 

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drivesitfar

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Riley: don't be so hard on yourself. ok?

you've been posting some pretty nice Craftsman tools and while i don't have the answers you are looking for i am enjoying your pictures and your posts.

if you have more please post them up.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!
 

four.cycle

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Rileysan said:
"...does anyone here have any 1/4" drive, 12-pt Circle-H sockets?"

well.... here's a 1/4" drive "circle H" set, but I can't remember if they're 6 or 12 point. I would guess 6, but I'm not sure. I have no idea where this one is right now.... it's here somewhere.

Craftsman 1.4 drive socket set circle H.jpg

on your "ell" handles: I can't speak to "usefulness", but if you had a truckload of them you could pay off your kid's college tuition. they go for north of $15 - $20 a pop on Ebay. go figure. (for the 1/2" drive CM =V=, anyway... seller bruceb440 found several of them a while back.)
 

Private Lugnutz

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Ganymede started a good thread on "Ell" handles on the General Discussion board a few years ago. Link here. I contributed a few times starting on page 2, as did four.cycle, and prompted by your post, I just updated my contributions to the thread with an interesting Indestro I found this year.

I won't repeat myself verbatim here, but gist my thoughts, for those who don't follow the link.

Called L- or Ell-handles due to the shape, but functionally, they're more like L- and Half T handles, because they were also used to turn fasteners with what we think of as the top of the L, with ones hand on the leg of the L. In fact, Indestro and Hinsdale made a version they explicitly called T-L handles with a sort of sheath-like handle that pivoted one way or another (into T or L position) for ease of holding.

In cruder forms (simple hex stock, round stock with female drive opening socket press-fit on the end, etc) they were one of the first drive tools and handy long before socket drive tools standardized on the sliding tee, overlapping in many sets through the 40's with sliding tees, and were eventually recognized as redundant to the sliding tee.

As for their usefulness, when you are using a sliding tee with the drive head slid all the way out to the ball or pinch or whatever stop at end of the handle - you are essentially using the sliding tee in a position that is no different than using an old L-handle.

A US Army Ordnance Dept type, at 8" x 3/8" with 1/2" drive studs forged on each end, much smaller than the versions you find in commercial sets, were specified in prewar and wartime Army GMTK's, and prized by WWII collectors for that reason. Of those types, I've had Armstrong and APCO-Mossberg, easily the most predominant maker of the wartime versions, in onesy-twosies over the years. Ditto the other WWII collectors here on GJ. And I had a NOS box of NOS paper-and-preservative coated examples last year (see Thumbnails 1 and 2), including a Plomb - to my delightful surprise! (In the process of getting that one back from Tin Medic, actually, who has found another one.)

Of the larger type, made of 1/2-inch round stock with the drive studs pinched or machined on the ends, I used to have a Long C Craftsman BE, now moved on to another collector to complete a BE set. (See Thumbnails 3 and 4.) And I, too, have an unmarked example here somewhere. Wondering, now that I'm seeing Rileysan's comparative analysis, if it is an unmarked New Britain. I'm going to have to try to find it.

Signed,
Buddy the Ellf
 

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twertsy

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Here's some BE long C stuff.547288ba453bceb208b47d0fd887c927.jpga101e9b8e4931589928aeca48f50ca39.jpgb7affcfd66a85a644322128b047c8848.jpg1c15766dd8f7242ed4245fb6b1821448.jpg

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twertsy

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"Extra BE and Circle H pieces.0bfe15f13952a7e2b3bedb15e4206314.jpgf1d13231c35e45ea7ba83dea4fd7504e.jpg6f0a7c837d60f2360381b517e4d7f321.jpg

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twertsy

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Some more02a804688abfb0fb3c07b5be5b974977.jpgb29fe2ccef9fc95e7bd4c2194547caff.jpg13de252b282f0b71ec72987ec5f614f8.jpg

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twertsy

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Couple more sets....

First set is odd. Came with Circle U sockets and ratchet, but C- drive tools. Second is a Circle U set, not long C.01fdc5314bd1c677b383e3fddc1234e5.jpg40ab730400ae677fa0be4abd2ec1b33e.jpgf1da1697a758d9cbe637dd877b63c51a.jpg254c4a9118a8beacb7c9d10232594423.jpg61be571f0a6a6258d4ec00ddd95c9f93.jpg

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drivesitfar

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Twertsy: how do you keep everything so ORGANIZED or do you cause i know you have more than few tools and tool boxes?

that first small set you posted looks like NOS (new old stock). is it and what size is it?

thanks for sharing your Long C collection and is that it or do you have more?

LUGS: is that your box of NOS L's?
 

Private Lugnutz

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LUGS: is that your box of NOS L's?
Yes it is. Or rather was. Actually, present tense for the box, which I still have for the historical value (it has Ordnance Dept labels on it), and one remaining piece, with a still unidentified stock number. All the others are now sitting in the removable top trays of WWII GMTK boxes in various parts of the US, UK, Belgium, France, and Australia! :)
 

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r_olson_06

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Couple more sets....

First set is odd. Came with Circle U sockets and ratchet, but C- drive tools. Second is a Circle U set, not long C.01fdc5314bd1c677b383e3fddc1234e5.jpg40ab730400ae677fa0be4abd2ec1b33e.jpgf1da1697a758d9cbe637dd877b63c51a.jpg254c4a9118a8beacb7c9d10232594423.jpg61be571f0a6a6258d4ec00ddd95c9f93.jpg

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I picked up a circle u set last year that had all circle U sockets and all early V drive tools. Not sure if they were fillers or just all got warranty at the same time.

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Rileysan

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Couple more sets....

First set is odd. Came with Circle U sockets and ratchet, but C- drive tools. Second is a Circle U set, not long C.01fdc5314bd1c677b383e3fddc1234e5.jpg40ab730400ae677fa0be4abd2ec1b33e.jpgf1da1697a758d9cbe637dd877b63c51a.jpg254c4a9118a8beacb7c9d10232594423.jpg61be571f0a6a6258d4ec00ddd95c9f93.jpg

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This IS interesting. I know you didn't speculate on the possibility, so I'll ask - do you think it possible Sear combined items from different manufacturers to make up these sets?

I have a not-so-dramatic example of just such a thing in my 1/2" drive deep socket set in original box. It contained Circle-H and BE sockets. If the speculation by AA is correct - that BE tools came from the original NB factory and Circle-H tools came from the Husky factory, they shouldn't be mixed unless the tools were shipped in bulk to some Sears location to be packaged into sets.

I also have a far-fetched example of a 1/4" drive set I bought in the original box (sans label) that came with BE sockets and breaker bar, unmarked extensions, and an unmarked Plomb ratchet. All were un-plated war time tools. I say far-fetched because I think the most likely answer is that the previous owner put the set together himself, but your set has me intrigued!

Brian
 

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twertsy

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Re: Show your "Long C" Craftsman!

This IS interesting. I know you didn't speculate on the possibility, so I'll ask - do you think it possible Sear combined items from different manufacturers to make up these sets?

I have a not-so-dramatic example of just such a thing in my 1/2" drive deep socket set in original box. It contained Circle-H and BE sockets. If the speculation by AA is correct - that BE tools came from the original NB factory and Circle-H tools came from the Husky factory, they shouldn't be mixed unless the tools were shipped in bulk to some Sears location to be packaged into sets.

I also have a far-fetched example of a 1/4" drive set I bought in the original box (sans label) that came with BE sockets and breaker bar, unmarked extensions, and an unmarked Plomb ratchet. All were un-plated war time tools. I say far-fetched because I think the most likely answer is that the previous owner put the set together himself, but your set has me intrigued!

Brian
He IS NOT correct. Please read my site on Husky. Factory was closed and NB moved what they wanted and sold the rest, including the factory in 1935.

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Smokeshow69

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This IS interesting. I know you didn't speculate on the possibility, so I'll ask - do you think it possible Sear combined items from different manufacturers to make up these sets?



I have a not-so-dramatic example of just such a thing in my 1/2" drive deep socket set in original box. It contained Circle-H and BE sockets. If the speculation by AA is correct - that BE tools came from the original NB factory and Circle-H tools came from the Husky factory, they shouldn't be mixed unless the tools were shipped in bulk to some Sears location to be packaged into sets.



I also have a far-fetched example of a 1/4" drive set I bought in the original box (sans label) that came with BE sockets and breaker bar, unmarked extensions, and an unmarked Plomb ratchet. All were un-plated war time tools. I say far-fetched because I think the most likely answer is that the previous owner put the set together himself, but your set has me intrigued!



Brian



Sweet circle u goodness ! That is my 2 favorite companies combined ! The circle u ratchets are my favorite appearing ratchets of all time ! Would love to find some in the wild as I refuse to pay eBay prices on those [emoji51]


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Rileysan

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Sweet circle u goodness ! That is my 2 favorite companies combined ! The circle u ratchets are my favorite appearing ratchets of all time ! Would love to find some in the wild as I refuse to pay eBay prices on those [emoji51]


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Do you remember that Craftsman 1/2" drive Circle-U ratchet I found at Goodwill (taken apart and missing pieces). You gave me the Plomb donor ratchet to repair it!

Brian
 

Smokeshow69

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Do you remember that Craftsman 1/2" drive Circle-U ratchet I found at Goodwill (taken apart and missing pieces). You gave me the Plomb donor ratchet to repair it!



Brian



Of course I remember that ratchet! I gave it to you because I knew it would help another plomb ratchet live again ! You know that once plomb enters my garage, it seldom ever comes out [emoji51] I don't give plomb ratchets away very often, but when I do, it is to help another live!


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d42jeep

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I should have reminded Lugz that I found a Circle H set last year similar to his but with just one row for sockets. I ended up selling it on eBay but keeping the crossbar. At least mine had a flex handle to use with the crossbar but it was missing some sockets.
-Don
 

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d42jeep

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Here is a picture of some BE sockets I just cleaned up, if you can call it that. Apparently the previous owner had a penchant for using #1 Permatex! I also took a couple of my 1/4" BE ratchets side by side.
-Don
 

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Private Lugnutz

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I should have reminded Lugz that I found a Circle H set last year similar to his but with just one row for sockets.
So what do you reckon went in that extra socket tray in mine, Don? It's too wide for 3/8 drive, and, while 3/4 drive would fit width-wise, I doubt they would've combined 1/2 drive and 3/4 drive, and I'm not sure they would fit height-wise (i.e., the lid wouldn't close). I was thinking more 1/2-drive, but these sets topped out at 1-1/8. Even with a couple /32nds sockets in the line, you could still fit fifteen (15) or so sockets all in that back tray from 7/16 to 1-1/8. I did it with fill-ins.

EDIT: I see that Todd has the same case. He has one of the extensions laying down in there. You know me. This is going to bug me until I figure it out. It just doesn't make sense.
 
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jusridin

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I do not have a single /32 drive size in my circle-H sets. However, I have seen them in the BE sets. I'm not saying they are exclusively BE, but I would be interested to learn if they exist in Circle-H.

Brian

Here is a 1/4 drive circle h 7/32 and a 11/32 along with a circle h spinner
 

jusridin

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I was reading a few pages back about them rusting out metals or turning grayish white. The metal on this one is a grayish white and the breaker it is stored with is rusted out.
 

Rileysan

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I was reading a few pages back about them rusting out metals or turning grayish white. The metal on this one is a grayish white and the breaker it is stored with is rusted out.

I don't think it's possible to stop the "out-gassing" from the handle, but I wonder if a desiccant pack would keep the box and other tools from being damaged?

Brian
 

Smokeshow69

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I have more long c stuff but wanted to take a picture of one of my favorite long c items I own ! It is a complete pipe threading set from back in the day for plumbing work ! It is complete and in pretty good shape considering its age and condition when I found it . I degreased the tray and waxed it and cleaned up the handle! It is rather large and is about 27" long !
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Outlawmws

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OK I FINALLY had time to dig out the cased ratchet set I mentioned in post one and take pics.

Long C tools with the box having the heritage oval logo...

All Circle H except the 1/4" drive which are BE.

The Clip is bent in the cover for the 1/2" speeder, and it's clearly been added to.

It DOES have 2 bars, but the large one only fits the big ratchet handle :wft: :confused: and the smaller the 3/8 breaker.

Some evidence of the yellow rust preventative, here and there.


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twertsy

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Messages
6,726
Location
Reedville, VA
OK I FINALLY had time to dig out the cased ratchet set I mentioned in post one and take pics.

Long C tools with the box having the heritage oval logo...

All Circle H except the 1/4" drive which are BE.

The Clip is bent in the cover for the 1/2" speeder, and it's clearly been added to.

It DOES have 2 bars, but the large one only fits the big ratchet handle :wft: :confused: and the smaller the 3/8 breaker.

Some evidence of the yellow rust preventative, here and there.


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Beauty Outlaw.

I recently saw a set like that with all yellow handle drive tools. Alas, it was his dad's and I didn't even feel right making him an offer. The way he spoke of his pop I knew he wouldn't part with it, and rightly so.

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Private Lugnutz

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Joined
Mar 30, 2012
Messages
30,524
Location
The Authentic Jersey Shore
It is a complete pipe threading set
I have that same drop-head pipe threader set, Smoke, and I share your admiration! I suspect yours is late 30’s to mid 40’s. I am jealous that yours has the Long C logo on the carrier. All the cutters and guides in mine are marked with the Long C logo, but the badge on my carrier is the Heritage logo, dating mine to late 40’s. These were made by Reed Mfg Co for Craftsman, patented (1,961,450) in June 1934. See the patent on the USPTO site here. Does your die stock say Reed Mfg Co on it? I've posted some pics of mine in the Tap and Die thread, but I'll re-post here so we can compare our sets. How cool and smart that the handle for the threader doubles as the handle for the carrier!

OK I FINALLY had time to dig out the cased ratchet set I mentioned in post one and take pics.
Now THAT set burgeoning over with pieces, helps answer my questions about the extra socket tray and all the empty space! :lol:
 

Rileysan

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 11, 2015
Messages
4,298
Location
Milwaukie, Oregon
Sweet circle u goodness ! That is my 2 favorite companies combined ! The circle u ratchets are my favorite appearing ratchets of all time ! Would love to find some in the wild as I refuse to pay eBay prices on those [emoji51]


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They don't exactly belong in this thread, but since I've never shown them on GJ before, I thought I'd take a photo for my pleasure (at seeing your jealousy)!

Craftsman "Circle-U" 1/2" and 3/8" drive ratchets, made by Plomb (the 1/2" drive with a Plomb WF-38 cover plate robbed from Smokeshow's ratchet).

The 1/2" drive was found in pieces (but incomplete) at a Goodwill store for $3. The 3/8" drive ratchet came from a swap meet for $10.

Brian
 

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