daddy2coull
Well-known member
Hi guys. Have any of you guys stateside got hold of a snap on fzero ratchet? If so, could you post a picture please. We still don't have them in the UK and I'm curious.
Snap on fzero
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Alienbaby17
Well-known member
I had forgotten all about these coming out. My SO guy hasn't said anything about them and I have seen no promos for them either. I'd like to actually see one in person. My guy comes on Monday. I'll have to see what he knows then. I'm intrigued.
Just saw there is a guy selling them on a Ebay for $181.
Just saw there is a guy selling them on a Ebay for $181.
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durallymax
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I have one of those amazing new inventions.....
The SO one is a bit different but same concept. Big head and just weird to use. Maybe SO's will be better. Personally I don't like not having teeth. I think that's why the MAC one was discontinued, just an odd feeling to use it. It has a lot more drag too. I bought it simply because they quit making them, it sounded weird and I got it dirt cheap on fleabay. It sits in my box as a conversation piece. For whatever reason if someone is grabbing a ratchet of mine they reach for it first, then can't believe it has no teeth.
The SO one is a bit different but same concept. Big head and just weird to use. Maybe SO's will be better. Personally I don't like not having teeth. I think that's why the MAC one was discontinued, just an odd feeling to use it. It has a lot more drag too. I bought it simply because they quit making them, it sounded weird and I got it dirt cheap on fleabay. It sits in my box as a conversation piece. For whatever reason if someone is grabbing a ratchet of mine they reach for it first, then can't believe it has no teeth.
chrismenke
Well-known member
Very curious about these.
At $180 a pop for a standard length ratchet (think F80) I don't think they'll be selling many. Design looks like its licensed from Roller Clutch Tools.
Try these pictures
My driver said it's rated a little stronger head than the 3/8" 80 tooth. Which he had laying there with an extremely long handle (new item), too long I thought. So if the 80 tooth holds up with such a very long handle the gearless FZero with a short handle shouldn't have any strength problems.
Price on the first few is more like $150 couple though he did see the ~$180 price in the computer.
The one pictured is the only one he has at the moment and not willing to sell it yet so he put my name on one of the 3 he has on the way/ordered.
It's incredibly smooth and tight, well obviously it's smooth without any teeth so no clicks... It is also very free, exceptionally easy to turn, and just by hand couldn't feel any backlash though it must have the slightest amount necessary to function.
It's a round head but I wouldn't say it's huge, see the picture beside a normal 80 tooth.
Grigg
durallymax
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I took my MAC apart. It kind of falls apart into a mess. Basically IIRC there are three large pins/rollers with a smaller one on each side of them and Springs between with wipers. Maybe I'll pop the snap ring out tomorrow to refresh my memory
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FunkyfullWidth
Well-known member
I want one. The same theory works inside transmissions, why not a ratchet. These have me curios about the degrees before engagement and how smooth they feel.
mrborohachi
Well-known member
Didn't a Japanese tool company have one in the 80~90's I want to say Kowa the mfg of Honda factory SST's. I knew an ex-TRD mechanic that had one. Same as the SO mentioned above it had a really short handle.
This guy was really old skool he used an old HKS mechanical boost gauge as a vacuum gauge.
Funny that clutch roller setup is the same design as my Shimano spinning anti-reverse mechanism
This guy was really old skool he used an old HKS mechanical boost gauge as a vacuum gauge.
Funny that clutch roller setup is the same design as my Shimano spinning anti-reverse mechanism
Dave455
Well-known member
These things have been around on and off for years!
I've got a Britool one dating from the late 80's. It's a good tool. Uses an 'off the shelf' roller clutch inside and works fine!
I think, like any other tool, if you get a good one they are fine, but if you get a crappy one it'll slip and drive you nuts! The Britool ones used a Timken clutch (respected bearing manufacturer) so that's probably why they worked fine!
I've seen these coming out of Taiwan at the moment (under various names, as is standard) but obviously wouldn't like to vouch for the quality!
Glad Snap On are bringing one out, suspect it'll be a great tool! But just hope they don't try to load the price too much!
I've got a Britool one dating from the late 80's. It's a good tool. Uses an 'off the shelf' roller clutch inside and works fine!
I think, like any other tool, if you get a good one they are fine, but if you get a crappy one it'll slip and drive you nuts! The Britool ones used a Timken clutch (respected bearing manufacturer) so that's probably why they worked fine!
I've seen these coming out of Taiwan at the moment (under various names, as is standard) but obviously wouldn't like to vouch for the quality!
Glad Snap On are bringing one out, suspect it'll be a great tool! But just hope they don't try to load the price too much!
OP
daddy2coull
Well-known member
So is this a picture of the fzero snap on version or an older version? It'd be interesting to see the other side. If you pump the number in the UK website it gives a price but not picture lol
My dealer had about 5 on the truck last week. Personally I didn't like it. First off the ratchet itself looks old....looks like a design from the 70s or so.
Also it just didn't feel "normal" in my hands. I honestly wouldn't use one if it was given to me
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Also it just didn't feel "normal" in my hands. I honestly wouldn't use one if it was given to me
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dadler
Well-known member
I have that exact set, and while well made, they are essentially a novelty. You can't reverse them in place, so they are of very limited utility--easy to get stuck in a tight clearance spot.
superautobacs
Well-known member
There's nothing revolutionary about this new fzero, unless the mechanism is entirely different, but the concept is the same.
Here's a photo from member, Oldjacks, from this thread: Why the Bad Rap on Gearless or 0 Degree Ratchets?
From vintage to more modern:
Out of curiosity I've bought a 3/8" drive Toptul, like the one pictured, but I've only used it a few times. The head is bulky, both thickness and depth, and they are head-heavy ie. not well balanced on hand. There's practically zero backlash so they do work well, but as a standard length ratchet I see its use limited.
Given that gearless mechanisms can handle a lot of torque load, I wish companies came out with a extra-long handled versions (18" and up). An XL length should be handy in those situations where swing-arc in an engine compartment is limited.
Member CRTDI posted some very cool catalogue scans from Blackhawk in this thread: stepless, toothless ratchet. where can i get them
Here's a photo from member, Oldjacks, from this thread: Why the Bad Rap on Gearless or 0 Degree Ratchets?
From vintage to more modern:
Out of curiosity I've bought a 3/8" drive Toptul, like the one pictured, but I've only used it a few times. The head is bulky, both thickness and depth, and they are head-heavy ie. not well balanced on hand. There's practically zero backlash so they do work well, but as a standard length ratchet I see its use limited.
Given that gearless mechanisms can handle a lot of torque load, I wish companies came out with a extra-long handled versions (18" and up). An XL length should be handy in those situations where swing-arc in an engine compartment is limited.
Member CRTDI posted some very cool catalogue scans from Blackhawk in this thread: stepless, toothless ratchet. where can i get them
From the quoted thread: Looks like oldjacks predicted the future...
4) What will happen in the future when SO runs out of teeth to add to their ratchets and what will be their next step? You can bet a Gearless Ratchet will happen eventually as how else are they or anyone else going to get people to buy new ratchets? Yup, they got to come up with something new.
This isn't exactly new stuff, but surely Snappy will market it as a technological break through.
It might also be another rip-off of a vintage Blackhawk product. Ever seen a Snappy 3/4" drive lock-on socket? I believe that Blackhawk was the original manufacturer behind this particular design.
It will be interesting for me to see what Snappy has done with this old idea.
Vintage Blackhawk free-wheelers were pretty sweet.
CRTDI,
Thank you for those scans! Very cool!
NKC, a Japanese firm, has produced gearless products for some time. Unfortunately they closed their doors earlier this year, for good.
They had a worldwide patent on their design, IIRC. Their tools were used by Volkswagen, at the assembly line.
Here's just a few examples:
They also made gearless ratchet adaptors:
From left: Snap-on, NKC, Ko-ken
That's a picture of the Fzero provided by a member.
Thanks for the info. For the price, even if they would help me one time, that would cover the cost. They have to be at least worth that
dadler
Well-known member
Thanks for the info. For the price, even if they would help me one time, that would cover the cost. They have to be at least worth that
Oh, I don't regret buying them at all. They are fun to play with, and they are well made. I like having them in my ratchet drawer.
I wonder how the reversible tool brand ratchets work, as the general concept of the clutch design is that it is one-way. I looked at the advertisement for the old blackhawk earlier in the thread and it was non-obvious how its reverse mechanism works.
I believe you push in the button and simply rotate the ratchet in the direction you want it to lock then the button pops back out and you're good to go.
superautobacs
Well-known member
On the Toptul and NKC, while you hold the square anvil on the bottom, you rotate the ring on top side to change direction.
dadler
Well-known member
Ah, pushing the button must release that square pin and allow the rollers to reverse to a section on the inner ring with a different slope? Hard to put my thoughts into words.
Alienbaby17
Well-known member
I asked my SO guy about these today. He acted like he had almost forgotten they were coming out and didn't seem that excited about them. He personally hadn't even seen one yet. He did say that they had no special meeting regarding them yet. He did go out and look it up on his computer and said that they are in the system although it didn't list specific inventory numbers on them yet. Price is apparently set at $179.
I can also tell you this for a fact. The fellow that had a new pair of them for sale on Ebay for $181 each WILL accept a 'best offer' of $150 shipped. Ask me how I know- and no I am not the seller...
I can also tell you this for a fact. The fellow that had a new pair of them for sale on Ebay for $181 each WILL accept a 'best offer' of $150 shipped. Ask me how I know- and no I am not the seller...
FunkyfullWidth
Well-known member
I was looking at that ratchet. A 5 inch long 3/8 ratchet for 180 bucks... NO THANKS. Free shipping though... ha ha... There was a few of the mac ones on there. I bid at 30 bucks or so. But wasn't really interested, more curious.
OP
daddy2coull
Well-known member
Do you have a link to the listing?
Alienbaby17
Well-known member
Alienbaby17
Well-known member
My FZERO ratchet arrived today. I was pretty excited for its arrival. When it got here I anxiously opened it and gave it the once over.
Despite knowing the dimensions before hand I have to admit that my first thought was that it was smaller than I envisioned.
I have positioned it here next to a dollar bill for size comparison.
The weight of it feels good. Definitely comparable to other similar Snap On ratchets of this size. The finish is decent, also like most other SO tools. As everyone has said, the head is big. My normal ratchet of choice is a round head swivel 3/8 SO ratchet which is similar in head size although the handle is much longer. Something about the non-flexing aspect of this ratchet makes it seem....less versatile- which it obviously is.
Also upon close inspection I think the head of it looks a little cheap. You can clearly see a big external snap ring on both sides of the head holding it together. That's not to say that I would anticipate problems due to this, but rather it just looks kind of cheaply assembled. It also rattles a little bit in the head if you shake it.
So naturally I had to try it out right away. It is easy to switch directions. When you move the ratchet back and forth it seems to do what it is supposed to do, but to me it feels a little funny. It feels like a broken normal ratchet. I brought it to the basement and used it to take a nut off of a bolt. It worked like it should. It still feels weird to me though. I'm going to have to get it to the shop and try it out on a few cars to really put it through its paces.
I do have to say that if I picked it up on the tool truck I probably would NOT have bought it- especially at $180.
I'll give it a week and give another review once I've got some real world experience with it.
Despite knowing the dimensions before hand I have to admit that my first thought was that it was smaller than I envisioned.
I have positioned it here next to a dollar bill for size comparison.
The weight of it feels good. Definitely comparable to other similar Snap On ratchets of this size. The finish is decent, also like most other SO tools. As everyone has said, the head is big. My normal ratchet of choice is a round head swivel 3/8 SO ratchet which is similar in head size although the handle is much longer. Something about the non-flexing aspect of this ratchet makes it seem....less versatile- which it obviously is.
Also upon close inspection I think the head of it looks a little cheap. You can clearly see a big external snap ring on both sides of the head holding it together. That's not to say that I would anticipate problems due to this, but rather it just looks kind of cheaply assembled. It also rattles a little bit in the head if you shake it.
So naturally I had to try it out right away. It is easy to switch directions. When you move the ratchet back and forth it seems to do what it is supposed to do, but to me it feels a little funny. It feels like a broken normal ratchet. I brought it to the basement and used it to take a nut off of a bolt. It worked like it should. It still feels weird to me though. I'm going to have to get it to the shop and try it out on a few cars to really put it through its paces.
I do have to say that if I picked it up on the tool truck I probably would NOT have bought it- especially at $180.
I'll give it a week and give another review once I've got some real world experience with it.
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wkderf
Well-known member
i think this is one of those products where even though it works well and is technically sound in theory & practice, people will resist adopting the technology simply because compared to what everyone is used too (tooth style ratchets) the feeling of using this new style is significantly different.
now imagine a world where this type was the standard, and tooth style ratchets were the option - we'd all be complaining that the "clicks" are stupid, and anything more than zero degrees is too much when it comes to rotation.
now imagine a world where this type was the standard, and tooth style ratchets were the option - we'd all be complaining that the "clicks" are stupid, and anything more than zero degrees is too much when it comes to rotation.
wkderf
Well-known member
ill also add that I agree that the look of the SO ratchet head does seem a bit cheap - and not up to their usual standard. the finish on the direction knob reminds me of those cheap "drop forged" wrenches that come free with furniture sets or bicycles to aid in assembly.
The issue is people will want to know what the advantage is. Zero back drag at the expense of a fatter, wider head that doesn't have a finger friendly lever to put while its buried isn't much of an advantage.
I'd like to see this technology on the small scale. The site where SO licensed this from mentioned ratcheting wrenches, i'd very much like to see them introduce a 10mm wrench for a trial run keeping size constraints in line with current toothed gear offerings. Frankly put this is just yet another revival of decades old technology that brings little to the table. This ratchet will be a dud like pretty much all clutch ratchets have been.
I dunno...I think this is one of those things that snap on shouldn't have distributed the way it is now....I feel it needs refined/revisioned a lot more. Just doesn't seem like they put as much development into it as I would expect out of "snap on"
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durallymax
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Not everything needs to be a mirror finish. To me a mirror finish looks cheap on most stuff, cant judge a book by its cover.. The mirror finish on snap on's stuff is usually very nice, but it never stays that way anyways. Theres something to be said about a nice natural hard chrome finish wrench. Maybe snap-on is smelling the roses and trying to copy the euro tools. Or they just cheaped out.
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
Glad to hear some first hand reviews on this ratchet. How was the back drag compared to a 3/8" drive Dual 80?
I can't seem to find a need for these with how good the Dual 80's are and how small of a swing the 100 tooth ratchets have. Any situation that requires under 4° of swing is going to be the slowest, most miserable pain in the ***.
I can't seem to find a need for these with how good the Dual 80's are and how small of a swing the 100 tooth ratchets have. Any situation that requires under 4° of swing is going to be the slowest, most miserable pain in the ***.
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1950mercury
Well-known member
A year from now they are going to sit in your tool box next to your robogrips
1950mercury
Well-known member
dadler
Well-known member
Wow, never knew these existed. Manufacturer link:
http://www.bgstechnic.com/products/view/209?locale=en
Alienbaby17
Well-known member
After using this ratchet for a week I have some thoughts on it.
It is OK.
I deliberately made a point of using this ratchet as often as I could this week. It's alright. It does what it says. It works as advertised and everyone else in the shop had to come over and check it out at some point. It is a curiosity and a bit of an oddity. It does work though- no complaints there.
If I did have some constructive criticism for it I would start with the handle. A bit longer handle would be a nice offering. I have a half-dozen other 3/8" Snap On ratchets and prior to getting this the two I used most often both are longer handled versions. When space is an issue I use a shorter, dedicated stubby ratchet. My old 3/8" standard SO ratchet of this length I brought home years ago because I never used it at work.
Minor issue, I also think switching between forward and reverse is a little awkward. There's no 'click' to let you know you've switched it. If you go to spin it either way it is silent. So you have to twist the head and check it ever time you pick it up to use. Not a big deal really.
I guess those are about the only real criticisms I have about it. The price seems a bit high also, even for SO. I got mine for $150 not the $180 retail. If I was in the market for a new 3/8" ratchet I'm not sure I would buy this one at that price. It's neat, even a bit of a novelty but not really that special to me.
I did have one point yesterday while working on Audi that the zero backlash did cone in handy in some tight quarters. Situations like that do come up a lot so I'm glad I had it. I did have to put a small pipe on the end of the handle to get a little extra torque though.
Overall, I give it an 8 out of 10. Biggest downsides to it are the price and the short handle IMO.
It is OK.
I deliberately made a point of using this ratchet as often as I could this week. It's alright. It does what it says. It works as advertised and everyone else in the shop had to come over and check it out at some point. It is a curiosity and a bit of an oddity. It does work though- no complaints there.
If I did have some constructive criticism for it I would start with the handle. A bit longer handle would be a nice offering. I have a half-dozen other 3/8" Snap On ratchets and prior to getting this the two I used most often both are longer handled versions. When space is an issue I use a shorter, dedicated stubby ratchet. My old 3/8" standard SO ratchet of this length I brought home years ago because I never used it at work.
Minor issue, I also think switching between forward and reverse is a little awkward. There's no 'click' to let you know you've switched it. If you go to spin it either way it is silent. So you have to twist the head and check it ever time you pick it up to use. Not a big deal really.
I guess those are about the only real criticisms I have about it. The price seems a bit high also, even for SO. I got mine for $150 not the $180 retail. If I was in the market for a new 3/8" ratchet I'm not sure I would buy this one at that price. It's neat, even a bit of a novelty but not really that special to me.
I did have one point yesterday while working on Audi that the zero backlash did cone in handy in some tight quarters. Situations like that do come up a lot so I'm glad I had it. I did have to put a small pipe on the end of the handle to get a little extra torque though.
Overall, I give it an 8 out of 10. Biggest downsides to it are the price and the short handle IMO.
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
Any long term updates on the FZERO?
Is this thing a total bust or have some of you put it into regular rotation?
Is this thing a total bust or have some of you put it into regular rotation?
Marc Benjamin
Well-known member
Yep, it's been out there for a whiles now so anyone still using em?