Solar power

[CitadelBlue]

Cant believe there are no costs to the homeowner for solar power. Anyone care to share their experiences...cost paid out, rebates received, tax credits, etc?

 

[CitadelBlue]

More on solar power

 

[slow]

your tax situation is unique, some states have extra incentives, some for battery backup. The "free" systems typically target to be a cheaper loan payment than your current power bill.

I can't justify solar with cheap power here in FL and no time of use metering, but friends in CA pay 7.5 times my power cost so it makes financial sense to them.

 

[WisJim]

I pay my utility about 14 cents a kilowatt hour,in western Wisconsin, and have had solar electric since early 1980s, often adding more panels as I can afford to. The system offsets my electric bill 11 months of the year, including house, shop, electric car charging, and all air conditioning and most of the heating. I started when it cost over 20 times as much as now and I've always done all my own installation. I suggest reading all the time print and maybe getting a couple of estimates from local installers

 

[Git]

Without more info, I am going to hazard a guess that is a 'leasing' type of a deal. They install and own all the hardware (solar panels, inverter, battery, etc) but they will also maintain it. In return, they sell you the electricity produced from the system slightly cheaper than what you would normally pay for it from your electrical utility.

So you save some money, the installation/leasing company makes money but there are concerns if you try to sell your property with a situation like that, what happens to the lease, etc

 

[dogdog]

Just be careful about over hype scams. Not really a scam per se.. but marketing wanks.

It's not really Free... there are few variations...

One is some green energy company wanted you to let them put their equipment on your roof.. they get all the rebates and what not, you don't own the equipment, you get to pay low cost electricity.. something to this extend.

The other one is you pay an installer/general contractor that handles the paperwork install etc for you. you own the equipment, you paid X amount up front cost. and if they claims Net $0, it will take about x years for the tax credit to net you $0 paid...

It gets more complicated than that... all their math are fluffy and ideal situation..sometimes too good to be true if you sit back and think about it.

Had a friend that did the second option... and .... I haven't seen him boast about it since. I did told him the ROI is too good to be true in real life, I guess he was all green with greed at the moment.

 

[Git]

Solar is the real deal, you just need to be careful who you are dealing with and personally I would never get into one of those 'lease' type options. I think the best way to go is to buy the equipment outright -> Hire a reputable contractor and figure out your 'break even' point and if you can live with that

The cost of electricity is only going to go up, especially like places in S Cal. My system was installed in July of 2016 with a total 'out of pocket' cost of $29k. To date, about 4 1/2 years later, my system has produced 94 MWh (that's 94,000 kWh). S Cal Edison charges $.23 but as you use more electricity you get into a higher 'tier' and the highest tops out at $.37 per kWh. So just using the $.23 rate, my system has produced almost $22k in electricity so far. Another year and half we will break even and then for the next 15 to 25 years the panels will be offsetting on average a $400 a month electric bill

 

[theoldwizard1]

The cheapest/easiest way to get into solar power is micro-inverters.

Basically, install one full size (2M x 1M), connect it to a micro-inverter and then plug it in any convenient wall outlet. If you have 240VAC, you can have 2 panels.

 

[vavet]

We had a 10kW roof mount system installed almost a year ago. We were aiming for 100% offset. In reality, we're a little below that, but we've also been home more so our consumption is higher than usual. Our meter shows a net consumption of about 3500 kWh over the last 10.5 months.
We own the entire system. It cost us about $32k, and we will get 26% of that back as a tax refund when we file taxes this year.
You have to make some guesses about what you think the stock market (opportunity cost of that money) will do and what the price of electricity from your provider will do. I figured about an 8-12 year payback, depending on what happens with those things. I even included the cost of additional homeowners insurance premiums in my calculations.
We used a local company. We've had two problems - one was a roof leak. I texted our sales rep on a Saturday. There was a crew there to fix it Monday morning. We also had a micro inverter fail in late December. They were there within a few days of me reporting it.

good luck.

 

[walrus]

The cheapest/easiest way to get into solar power is micro-inverters.

Basically, install one full size (2M x 1M), connect it to a micro-inverter and then plug it in any convenient wall outlet. If you have 240VAC, you can have 2 panels.

First thing, micro inverter has to be sized to the panel, second microinverter puts out 208-240 depending and last but not least one should never ever plug it into a house hold receptacle

 

[nadogail]

My Tax Accountant told me that the Government Rebates are credits against the taxes you would otherwise have to pay. He said "Because of your rental houses; I've got you "Zeroed Out on Taxes" , so just find the deal that costs you the least out of pocket."

Basically, IMHO, this should be discussed with your accountant, because like Snow Flakes, no two situations are alike.

 

[dcg9381]

Cant believe there are no costs to the homeowner for solar power.

You'd be right NOT to believe that, unless you're in a Very Special situation.

Most of these advertisements are about solar leases or solar loans. The idea is that the reduction in your power bill offsets the lease or loan cost of the solar install...

Looking at a quick loan calculator, $18,000 loan, 4.5% interest, 15 years is a $93/month payment. Average cost (installed) per KW seems to be about $2.81 - so this would get you about a 6KW solar system. Here, that produces about $30-$50 of power a month, so it won't cover the loan payments. Places where power costs more, it would pay for itself month to month. There is a federal tax rebate on the cost of a purchased system that I'm not factoring in here (reduction in cost of 26%).

I hear that the lease can be a pain in the *** on resale.

Anyone care to share their experiences...cost paid out, rebates received, tax credits, etc?

For me, I just get the federal rebate, so you can deduct 26% of the cost of the system off your taxes. Other places my have state, local, or power company incentives.

I'm a "hobby installer" - meaning I do it in low volume commercially. A 6KW system that I installed for myself was about $8500 before federal rebate last year. That was my cost without any markups or labor. So my actual out of pocket after rebates was $6746. So my cost was $1.12 per watt. Assuming typical retail costs are $2.81 per watt, you can tell that the margins on these installed systems is pretty good...

I've installed about 5 systems in the last few years. Never had a call back on any of them. They just work and you don't have to monkey with them.


Note, solar DOES NOT provide backup power in the vast majority of cases.

 

[theoldwizard1]

First thing, micro inverter has to be sized to the panel, second microinverter puts out 208-240 depending and last but not least one should never ever plug it into a house hold receptacle

The whole point of a micro inverter is that it IS sized 1 for 1 to a standard 72 or 96 cell solar panel.

Most micro inverters output 120V.

I have seen professional plug them into standard receptacles. This is your disconnect.

 

[walrus]

The whole point of a micro inverter is that it IS sized 1 for 1 to a standard 72 or 96 cell solar panel.

Most micro inverters output 120V.

I have seen professional plug them into standard receptacles. This is your disconnect.

It can be sized to one panel but may not be depending on output of panel. I'm sure you can get a micro that puts out 120v but I've only seen 208 to 240. I've seen "professionals" do lots of stuff.

 

[CJ7VFR]

That add says that there is "No cost at install". What that means is that you pay nothing at the time of the installation, but then you will be paying something at a later date.

That system is not "Free". It just does not cost you anything at the time you get it installed.

Kind of like car dealers who have adds that say "No money down". That does not mean the car is free.

Jim

 

[dcg9381]

I have seen professional plug them into standard receptacles. This is your disconnect.

Not remotely legal here. Physical disconnect required - has to be outside accessible. No way a POC allows that (not that these "professionals" are asking).

 

[gpiggaz]

I just completed my solar installation in Tucson AZ. 100% Self installed, by the book, Ground mounted- using USA made panels and racking. Inverter/optimizers by Solar Edge. Of course they were made in China. We chose the SolarEdge equipment mostly because of the way it would work if a panel got shaded - we thought about the micro inverters, but decided they weren't for us, although they are pretty straight forward to install. Had we gone with Chinese panels and a single inverter ( like a Sunnyboy) we'd have saved a few thousand over what we did. I hope the choice of equipment just leaves us with minimal maintenance.

By far the hardest and almost most expensive part was digging the holes in AZ caliche - took the majority of the time. Had to use a jackhammer to dig them and due to the location hand mixed the concrete for the piers. These two things added several thousand to the cost of installation. My payback for this self installed system is going to approach 7 years-I had hoped for between 3-4. but that's because the ground mounting cost more than the tax credit will provide. Over 30% of the cost was the mounting. Tax credit is 26% of the installed costs. We provided 100% of the labor, We purchased the equipment from a reputable on line retailer of solar equipment that supports the DIY installer, there may be less expensive sources than that too. Going with USA made panels and racking and using the Solar Edge equipment probably added another 15% to the costs. The warranty, assuming the companies are still in business - Panels 25 years, inverter 12 ( I think it can be extended to 25 though) years, optimizers 25 years- Installation- well, since I did it myself, I guess it's Lifetime

I had hoped to bring the system in for 30% less than it actually cost us, but that's ok. I also got some new to me tools- A really nice jackhammer from eBay . If we'd have paid to have it installed the cost would have been at least 50% more.

We just had our first day of production and it generated about 48KWh of power. Our power costs are about 0.12/KWh, so we generated $5.75 of power on our first full day ! - It will go up a little as we get longer days- but lets just say, for us, it's probably not a good way to look at the costs by calculating the time to "free power" I'm looking at it more like: I took some cash and instead of investing into the market where my return isn't guaranteed, or the bank where it's < 1% interest. I put the cash into my property, and we'll see a return of about 10%/year on that cash expended. At least that's the calculation at today's costs, and assuming maintenance is pretty much 0 cost- We'll see if it works out that way. Hope that helps the OP understand at least in AZ what the expectations are for Ground Mounted. YMMV if you use different sources of materials and different mounting methods.

Finally, it is 100% illegal and extremely unsafe, to push power into the grid w/o proper installation and utility clearances. You understand it's a safety issue right? If you manage to push power into the grid, if the grid happens to go down, you actually are energizing the lines- and those transformers that step the voltage down to feed your house actually, would step the voltage up into the grid( transformers are bi directional !) and could endanger the life of the lineman trying to fix the power for you. Don't do it, that also includes back feeding your power with a generator unless it's properly installed with a lockout to prevent backfeeding the grid when the grid is down!.

 

[lonestardiver]

Pictures...we need pictures.

 

[dcg9381]

Here are a few of two installs I've done.. One ground mount for a customer, the other on my shop...

 

[BigNuge]

I took the leap, did a 9.5kw grid-tied (net-metered) system. Up here in New England we pay big for power, so offsetting our utility bill is quite attractive.

I used a local contractor for all of it, I sipped coffee and watched them do the work...lol. The SE facing roof plane of my barn is almost perfect for solar. The contractor maps all this out, and it is part of their calculations. I have one tree that throws a tiny bit of shade at first light, but then it’s full-on sun (on a sunny day).

I am on month 4 with the system on-line. The billing cycle for my power is mid-month to mid-month. My first “full billing cycle” was Feb-March. I would typically be running a $150-$175 electric bill. I got a $84.44 credit bill for that period. So I not only offset my usage, I generated well beyond, and that is during the terrible winter solar arc and short days!

Now, on a mixed day (partly cloudy) I fully offset my consumption, plus a little. But on a full-sun day my system does 5-7x my consumption.

My whole system is by Enphase, a big name is solar. Panels, micro-inverters, combiner/controller/optimizer. I had one bad inverter from the start, the contractor swapped it out, all good now. The app works great, live data and historical data. It graphs Generated/Consumed/Imported/Exported.

Here is a shot of yesterday’s (4/2/2021 in Seabrook NH) information. Mind you, we had a partly cloudy day on the seacoast, which is why you see the toothy graph.



My best generating day was just shy of 70kwh, and that was in March!

In the end, I am no “tree hugger”. I’m a conservative that chooses to use part of my financial resources to power and heat my home for the betterment of the planet and environment (I heat mostly with pellets, but I do have a traditional hydronic system fired by oil). I think for most the case cannot be built solely on financial return. My case is favorable, but even still struggles to prove an aggressive return. In the end, I see it as me offsetting my usage, though I still need the grid at night/bad weather days. I’ll be watching battery tech to improve, and consider adding them if things get to a manageable price point.

My system: $23,800 all-in.




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[laser3kw]

That system is not "Free". It just does not cost you anything at the time you get it installed.

Kind of like car dealers who have adds that say "No money down". That does not mean the car is free.

Jim

amen!

 

[Sevenhills1952]

I thought of solar years ago...but I figured this way. Our average power bill is about $90/month or $1,080/ year.
Same as $24,000 invested at 4.5%. (S&P averaged 13.6% last 10 years).
In 10 years we've lost power maybe 2 hours total. I have no maintenance costs with power company.
I've never understood the green thing. It creates pollution to manufacture solar panels, wind turbines, electric cars, etc. Although about half our power is coal, the harmful emissions is low (see clean air/water Act and smokestack scrubbers).
Heat from solar panels and wind kills birds, it's not 100% "green".
Now I await my evisceration.

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[Baydog]

We've been installing solar for like 19 years on the East coast. Prices have plummeted over that time due mostly to declining cost of the solar panels. These days is someone is trying to sell you a residential rooftop system at over $3.00 per DC watt, before any incentives, walk away. Prices should be closer to $2.50 or even less.

For asphalts shingle mounts the most important part is the type of flashing used. If they want to use what is essentially a plate with goop on top of the shingles screwed into the decking, run away. The ones that sit on top of the shingles and lag to the rafter are a little better. But what you want is a real flashed pentation. There is a bracket that lags down on top of the shingle, but then a 12" x12" aluminum flashing goes up under the row above and drops down. They take a lot longer to install, so you'll see the guys that have only been in business a couple of years, and some of the big leasing outfits use the surface sealing only kind.

The next important piece is wire management up under the panels. You don't want wires hanging down rubbing on the roof or getting caught on ice and snow. You see lots of leasing company roof arrays with a skirt at the bottom. That's there so you can't look up and see the haphazard wire management. Its a bad idea that traps debris against the roof. It also raises the temperature of the solar panels slightly. The colder a solar panel is, the higher the voltage so more power. Blocking the convective air flow lowers production.

Exposed conduit runs across the roof is just lacking of caring to do it right and wanting to finish in a hurry. Each separate section should have what's called a Soladeck box under it that allows sections to be connected together in the attic instead.

There are lots of ways to cut corners to do 1 Day installs. Exposed conduit, peel and stick flashings, and micro inverters all are intended to speed installation more then they are to provide the most long lasting solutions.

Yes, I said microinverters. They are fast to install and you don't need to know anything about how solar works to be successful with them. But they have always had a high failure rate. The main company that provides them releases a new series every couple of years that's supposed to fix the failure problem. We'll see on the the latest series. It takes 5-7 years for the DC to AC conversion electronics to experience heat failures. Well except the ones that fail much earlier. You can get all of the benefits of micro inverters with a a systems that uses DC to DC optimizers for each panel, but does the DC to AC conversion off the roof. The DC optimization does not have the same failure rate.

But unless you have a lot of differential shading, or small roof spaces pointing in different directions or at different tilts, you don't need to optimize panel by panel. That will save you a couple of thousand on a residential array, and reduce the potential points of failure. You likely need to deal with something called "Rapid Shutdown" if you don't optimize or micro invert, depending on what NEC version your area is under. If so , it's easiest just to optimize. Check out the SolarEdge equipment for an inverting solution that's both feature packed and reliable.

Ground mounts don't need rapid shutdown, and if not differentially shaded see only a tiny improvement from panel level optimization. So that's a good place to just use a string inverter and save money.

It's certainly possible to install your own solar. It's also easy to start fires with DC arcs. So do your homework and know the code if you take it on for yourself. Homework is a good idea before you sign with an installer too. read the fine print, those leasing deals ****, so go into them with your eyes wide open. Don't be fast to say yes just because it's "Free". The average homeowner can save $40K or more over 25 years with solar, even with paying off a loan. If you lease you may end up paying more for your electricity, some lease deals have costs that go up 3% a year. Read the contract.

 

[Sumboodie]

Solar is the real deal, you just need to be careful who you are dealing with and personally I would never get into one of those 'lease' type options. I think the best way to go is to buy the equipment outright -> Hire a reputable contractor and figure out your 'break even' point and if you can live with that

The cost of electricity is only going to go up, especially like places in S Cal. My system was installed in July of 2016 with a total 'out of pocket' cost of $29k. To date, about 4 1/2 years later, my system has produced 94 MWh (that's 94,000 kWh). S Cal Edison charges $.23 but as you use more electricity you get into a higher 'tier' and the highest tops out at $.37 per kWh. So just using the $.23 rate, my system has produced almost $22k in electricity so far. Another year and half we will break even and then for the next 15 to 25 years the panels will be offsetting on average a $400 a month electric bill

We pay .20 kw/hr here. Highest bill I've ever had was $122 in winter.
Summer is usually $50-60. That's without solar.

With solar the power company owes me

 

[Sumboodie]

We've been installing solar for like 19 years on the East coast. Prices have plummeted over that time due mostly to declining cost of the solar panels. These days is someone is trying to sell you a residential rooftop system at over $3.00 per DC watt, before any incentives, walk away. Prices should be closer to $2.50 or even less.

For asphalts shingle mounts the most important part is the type of flashing used. If they want to use what is essentially a plate with goop on top of the shingles screwed into the decking, run away. The ones that sit on top of the shingles and lag to the rafter are a little better. But what you want is a real flashed pentation. There is a bracket that lags down on top of the shingle, but then a 12" x12" aluminum flashing goes up under the row above and drops down. They take a lot longer to install, so you'll see the guys that have only been in business a couple of years, and some of the big leasing outfits use the surface sealing only kind.

The next important piece is wire management up under the panels. You don't want wires hanging down rubbing on the roof or getting caught on ice and snow. You see lots of leasing company roof arrays with a skirt at the bottom. That's there so you can't look up and see the haphazard wire management. Its a bad idea that traps debris against the roof. It also raises the temperature of the solar panels slightly. The colder a solar panel is, the higher the voltage so more power. Blocking the convective air flow lowers production.

Exposed conduit runs across the roof is just lacking of caring to do it right and wanting to finish in a hurry. Each separate section should have what's called a Soladeck box under it that allows sections to be connected together in the attic instead.

There are lots of ways to cut corners to do 1 Day installs. Exposed conduit, peel and stick flashings, and micro inverters all are intended to speed installation more then they are to provide the most long lasting solutions.

Yes, I said microinverters. They are fast to install and you don't need to know anything about how solar works to be successful with them. But they have always had a high failure rate. The main company that provides them releases a new series every couple of years that's supposed to fix the failure problem. We'll see on the the latest series. It takes 5-7 years for the DC to AC conversion electronics to experience heat failures. Well except the ones that fail much earlier. You can get all of the benefits of micro inverters with a a systems that uses DC to DC optimizers for each panel, but does the DC to AC conversion off the roof. The DC optimization does not have the same failure rate.

But unless you have a lot of differential shading, or small roof spaces pointing in different directions or at different tilts, you don't need to optimize panel by panel. That will save you a couple of thousand on a residential array, and reduce the potential points of failure. You likely need to deal with something called "Rapid Shutdown" if you don't optimize or micro invert, depending on what NEC version your area is under. If so , it's easiest just to optimize. Check out the SolarEdge equipment for an inverting solution that's both feature packed and reliable.

Ground mounts don't need rapid shutdown, and if not differentially shaded see only a tiny improvement from panel level optimization. So that's a good place to just use a string inverter and save money.

It's certainly possible to install your own solar. It's also easy to start fires with DC arcs. So do your homework and know the code if you take it on for yourself. Homework is a good idea before you sign with an installer too. read the fine print, those leasing deals ****, so go into them with your eyes wide open. Don't be fast to say yes just because it's "Free". The average homeowner can save $40K or more over 25 years with solar, even with paying off a loan. If you lease you may end up paying more for your electricity, some lease deals have costs that go up 3% a year. Read the contract.

Almost 10 years on Enphase inverters. No failures.

 

[gpiggaz]

We completed our first month of solar production almost 1.2MWH from our 7.6KW system that I described in post 17 above. Almost exactly matched the simulation (prediction) So far so good. 1.2MWH is worth $144 @ 0.12/KWH here in Tucson. But since we used only 1/2 of what we produced as we produced in real time, we probably only saved about $72 from our bill, however, we get credit at 0.0868/KW for what we push back into the grid, so in reality, our monthly "value" for the first month was about $72+$52 or $124. We are adjusting to using the power as its generated rather than pushing it into the grid for credit. For example, it makes sense now to do the laundry or charge the cars mid day now vs in the evening. I hope to see us using closer to 75-80% in real time to maximize the value. But time will tell.

 

[Git]

It is interesting to see the different 'net metering' agreements

When our system was installed, we got in under Net Metering 1 which gives us full retail credit for any surplus that goes back to the grid, so it doesn't matter when our peak usage is. That changed in Net Metering 2 where people still get full retail credit but everyone is forced on to a Time of Use plan where the cost of electricity really spikes in the later afternoon/evening (usually 4 to 9 PM the rate can double)

We are also billed on a yearly basis and any 'credits' at the end of the year can be rolled over or they will pay you for it - but it is at the wholesale rate which is around $.03 per Kwh

 

[BigNuge]

It is interesting to see the different 'net metering' agreements

When our system was installed, we got in under Net Metering 1 which gives us full retail credit for any surplus that goes back to the grid, so it doesn't matter when our peak usage is. That changed in Net Metering 2 where people still get full retail credit but everyone is forced on to a Time of Use plan where the cost of electricity really spikes in the later afternoon/evening (usually 4 to 9 PM the rate can double)

We are also billed on a yearly basis and any 'credits' at the end of the year can be rolled over or they will pay you for it - but it is at the wholesale rate which is around $.03 per Kwh

With my net agreement I get full rate (same rate I pay) for exported electricity. However, I do not get the “transport charges”, which are half the bill. So, to truly break even I have to export 1.5x my consumption. From what I’ve seen so far out of my system I can do that without issue, and do well beyond that on a good sunny day.

I have room for another full row of panels. I could go to 15kw with only panels and one more breaker in the combiner. I would only do that if/when I convert more systems around the house to electric. There is no benefit to running a huge credit balance with the power company.
It’s not like you ever get a check, it just stays a credit.


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[Git]

My utility (SCE) limits how large of a system you can install. I had to get a waiver to get the max allowable - which was 120% of the previous years usage. So at this point we are capped at 12.5 kWh DC, which is roughly 20,000 kWh a year

Just to show the difference in the old, 'Tiered' plan versus the new 'Time of Use' plan that everyone has to use now. Last year I tried the TOU plan because they guaranteed (in writing) that it would save us money. At the end of the 12 month period when it came time to pay the bill, it showed that we owed them over $800, but when the applied the guarantee and used the Tiered Plan instead, the price dropped to a little over $100. (So last year paid a little over $100 for electricity, all the years before that we generated more than we used.) Also, SCE increased their rates 7% in 2020 and they are now asking for another 14% increase in 2021. And, all new residential construction has to have solar installed, by law.

 

[BigNuge]

My utility (SCE) limits how large of a system you can install. I had to get a waiver to get the max allowable - which was 120% of the previous years usage. So at this point we are capped at 12.5 kWh DC, which is roughly 20,000 kWh a year

Just to show the difference in the old, 'Tiered' plan versus the new 'Time of Use' plan that everyone has to use now. Last year I tried the TOU plan because they guaranteed (in writing) that it would save us money. At the end of the 12 month period when it came time to pay the bill, it showed that we owed them over $800, but when the applied the guarantee and used the Tiered Plan instead, the price dropped to a little over $100. (So last year paid a little over $100 for electricity, all the years before that we generated more than we used.) Also, SCE increased their rates 7% in 2020 and they are now asking for another 14% increase in 2021. And, all new residential construction has to have solar installed, by law.

Yeah, none of that here. We do have to request the utility verify transformer size to ensure we do not overtax an undersized transformer. I have a 25kw transformer serving my house, more than enough even if o go another 5kw.


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[Sumboodie]

We completed our first month of solar production almost 1.2MWH from our 7.6KW system that I described in post 17 above. Almost exactly matched the simulation (prediction) So far so good. 1.2MWH is worth $144 @ 0.12/KWH here in Tucson. But since we used only 1/2 of what we produced as we produced in real time, we probably only saved about $72 from our bill, however, we get credit at 0.0868/KW for what we push back into the grid, so in reality, our monthly "value" for the first month was about $72+$52 or $124. We are adjusting to using the power as its generated rather than pushing it into the grid for credit. For example, it makes sense now to do the laundry or charge the cars mid day now vs in the evening. I hope to see us using closer to 75-80% in real time to maximize the value. But time will tell.

They charge us 0.20 kwhr here and buy back at 0.05. They are much more solar friendly in AZ.

The pisser is when I signed the contract, it was a credit system and they bought back if you still had a credit after a year.

IE you made 400 kwhr more than used, you had a 400kwhr credit for the next month.

Well, they changed it and somehow my contract wasn't upheld. Tough ****.

 

[Git]

My electric utility (SCE) which is a 'for profit' corporation, apparently has so much cash that last week they sent out a technician who replaced my 17 year old furnace blower motor with a brand new, brushless (energy efficient) electric motor, installed an EcoBee smart thermostat, checked my AC system ducts for leaks (they taped all the registers shut and then pressurized the system with a computerized blower) and checked the freon levels. Total Cost was $ZERO

 

[BigNuge]

My electric utility (SCE) which is a 'for profit' corporation, apparently has so much cash that last week they sent out a technician who replaced my 17 year old furnace blower motor with a brand new, brushless (energy efficient) electric motor, installed an EcoBee smart thermostat, checked my AC system ducts for leaks (they taped all the registers shut and then pressurized the system with a computerized blower) and checked the freon levels. Total Cost was $ZERO

No, those were federal dollars hustled by the left. All rebates/credits are federal dollars. That quite obnoxious really, none of what you mentioned will ever return the cost of that service, not even the entire lifetime of the system.


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[Git]

"The Direct Install program is funded by California utility ratepayers and is administered by Southern California Edison under the auspices of the California Public Utilities Commission."

 

[BigNuge]

"The Direct Install program is funded by California utility ratepayers and is administered by Southern California Edison under the auspices of the California Public Utilities Commission."

And where do you think the PUC is getting those funds?

[emoji848][emoji848]


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[Nick Danger]

I am in the process of getting solar panels installed this week. It would have been nice to get them for $2.50 per DC watt, but that isn't available in this state. I think I'm at $3.10 before federal and state tax rebates.

Net metering can't last forever. I figure that eventually there will be enough solar panels that the PoCo won't be able to afford to both pay full-price for what their customers generate and pay for maintaining the big generating stations that are needed during blizzards. Something will have to give.

I just hope that net metering will last for ten years, so my system pays for itself.

 

[Git]

And where do you think the PUC is getting those funds?

[emoji848][emoji848]

Well it says it right there in the quote - from the utilities' rate payers (it's customers) not the federal government

 

[BigNuge]

Well it says it right there in the quote - from the utilities' rate payers (it's customers) not the federal government

With the help (auspices) of the PUC (that’s what the second half of the statement says). That means federal dollars.

Kind of sad really, Kalifornia likes to boast about the size of its economy, but is in the gravest condition, with mass exodus happening because of its horrific policies and cost of living. But I digress...


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[BigNuge]

I am in the process of getting solar panels installed this week. It would have been nice to get them for $2.50 per DC watt, but that isn't available in this state. I think I'm at $3.10 before federal and state tax rebates.

Net metering can't last forever. I figure that eventually there will be enough solar panels that the PoCo won't be able to afford to both pay full-price for what their customers generate and pay for maintaining the big generating stations that are needed during blizzards. Something will have to give.

I just hope that net metering will last for ten years, so my system pays for itself.

Net-metering doesn’t have to end. In fact, it’s helping supply issues. Here in NH they deregulated the electric utility, and now our power and transport charges or separate, and represent a 50/50 split in the bill.

$150.00 electric bill would be $75 transport/$75 electricity. For our net metering agreement we get the same rate for generated power as we pay, but only the actual electricity, not the transport charges. So we have to generate 1.5x our usage to fully offset our electric bill.


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[jeepxj]

really? you gona be that guy?