Some wood working questions

[Ohmthis]

Hi all, I'm not sure if this is the right area, but I've seen some woodworking projects here. We've been doing a remodel on a lake place we have. The new vanity is being damn near impossible to find that suits us. Custom made ones were almost triple our budget.............So I plan to build one. Here's my plan, the box will be made out of finish grade plywood. The drawers I will buy premade. To give it a rustic look, I'm going to use either pallets or rough sawn cedar to make the door frame, drawer fronts, legs, and on the exposed side a x or just a slash.My questions to the REAL wood workers are)
Should I distress the plywood for the side?
Definatley pocket jig the box?
On the framing (rustic wood) straight it mitred joints?
Any ideas on getting the ply really close (stain wise) to the rustic (looking for ideas on the staining application)?
Thanks for any help!

 

[Richard Cranium]

not a wood worker, But have done a lot, I would say not miter joints around the door and it will be very difficult to get the stain to match with the plywood and the rough cedar. Thanks for sharing and good luck

 

[Ohmthis]

Maybe not an exact match, but they have to work together. I had planned to experiment a little. Thanks!

 

[TLCObsession]

Mitered joints vs. straight - your call - its about the look you want. Mitered is a bit fancy for rustic.

You could wire brush the plywood to help 'rusticate' it. I would frame the side the same as the doors.

 

[ratdoggy]

Do you have a Kreg kit?
Makes it alot easier with pocket screws
You also don't want the plywood edges to show

 

[rsanter]

First off this is just an opinion...

Using the plywood will not look right for a rustic piece.
Use 3/8 thick basic cheap plywood ( CDX I belive) to make the framework and then face it in the pallet wood you are wanting to use.
Glue the pallet wood to the plywood backing to make up for the fact you are using thinner stuff. A couple of brad nails to hold it while the glue sets and you are good.
Also being a bathroom use the gorilla glue for wood or exterior use wood glue

Bob

 

[theoldwizard1]

Mitered joints vs. straight - your call - its about the look you want. Mitered is a bit fancy for rustic.

Concur. Rustic would call for square, **** joints.

How are you going to make the door panels ? Just a flat panel ? For rustic, just running thenm through a table saw to square up the edges should be good enough. If it is rustic, you can just put a couple of piece horizontally across the back. Pre-drill the holes oversized (or better make the a small slot) so that if there is any expansion due to heat/moisture the piece in the panel can move a little.

Make your door panels a couple of inches oversized and then use a table saw with a panel cutting jig (check YouTube) to cut them to size.


For the plywood carcass/box find Norms Abram's video on the quick way to do it. (Edge dado and biscuits.)

 

[PugetDude]

I've built a few barnwood cabin vanities...

Buy a Kreg pocket hole jig and screws for the face frame. Allows you make a nice frame with just simple **** joints with hidden screws on the back side.
Build a Simple plywood box for the vanity cabinet, good side in. Again, you can use pocket screws if you want. Otherwise, just glue and nail, square it up, and then add a few screws.

Cover it with your rustic wood. Use a brad nailer (good) or a pin nailer (better) Shiplap the boards if you have a table saw or router table to cut the rabbets. They won't open up when the wood moves- and it will. It helps to paint the plywood box black before you start so the raw plywood doesn't shine through if the rustic wood has large knots, cracks, checks, etc.

Drawer boxes are easy to make. Simple plywood boxes, dado or rabbet joints will be fine. Use a separate face panel made from your rustic wood.
Buy good drawer slides- I believe there was a source for them at a reasonable price on soj's yellow storage cabinet thread.

Post pics of the finished project.

 

[bullnerd]

OR, you could do a true built-in like in the olden days before plywood and built the frame right in place, all from whatever wood you choose. The walls become you interior, if its in a corner anyway. If not , I agree, cover the ply with your wood choice. You don't need any fancy tools, lots of stuff built with simple nails and glue.

 

[Ohmthis]

I've built a few barnwood cabin vanities...

Buy a Kreg pocket hole jig and screws for the face frame. Allows you make a nice frame with just simple **** joints with hidden screws on the back side.
Build a Simple plywood box for the vanity cabinet, good side in. Again, you can use pocket screws if you want. Otherwise, just glue and nail, square it up, and then add a few screws.

Cover it with your rustic wood. Use a brad nailer (good) or a pin nailer (better) Shiplap the boards if you have a table saw or router table to cut the rabbets. They won't open up when the wood moves- and it will. It helps to paint the plywood box black before you start so the raw plywood doesn't shine through if the rustic wood has large knots, cracks, checks, etc.

Drawer boxes are easy to make. Simple plywood boxes, dado or rabbet joints will be fine. Use a separate face panel made from your rustic wood.
Buy good drawer slides- I believe there was a source for them at a reasonable price on soj's yellow storage cabinet thread.

Post pics of the finished project.

This is more or less my idea. Yes I planned to use a kreg jig and screws. My door was going to be planks (so to speak) vertically with a frame around that. Where you said to paint the box black, this is where my stain was to come into play. I also wanted something similar to not have to cover the whole thing in rustic wood. I'm using a lot of my brothers tools, so I am limited to what he has. I'm more of the electrician/HVAC/mechanic/weldor/metal kinda guy. I'll probably be starting this in a couple weeks once the plan has been finalized and the wife signs off on it. Thanks all and keep the ideas coming.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Not much to add but +1 on the Kreg jig for box and face frame. I would not try to distress plywood as the veneer is thin, brittle, easily torn and won't hold up.

 

[Ohmthis]

Turbo, great the point on the destressing of the plywood.

 

[BaMaDuDe87]

How do you plan on finishing the plywood?

I was actually watching a show last night and they created a distressed look by putting down glue, then paint, then hitting it with a hairdryer. That might work if you had planned on painting?

 

[gungatim]

plywood, especially cabinet grade will be tough to distress and not ruin the thin veneer. if it is exposed, you can use a lesser grade and cover with thin shiplap boards, beadboard, whatever. one "country" style dresser I did used oak plywood for the box with 1/4" oak boards **** jointed and glued over the plywood to look like a frame and panel style. customer loved it.

you can do almost any style joint for the carcass you are comfortable with, ****/nail, rabbet, pocket screw, biscuit, dowel, etc. the rear panel and frame are going to keep it square and give it strength...for rustic, **** joints on the frame, flat panel door, etc. one thing you can do if using pallet wood after thinning down is run a v-groove on the edges/chamfer with the router so when they but together they look more hand-made.

 

[My Old Tools]

Forget plywood unless you are painting it (it never looks like real wood) and glue up panels from your barn wood. You can make them flat, or frame and panel, or flat with an overlay to look like frame and panel. You can use your pocket hole jig for assembly if that is what you are comfortable with. I don't use them except for quick face frames when I don't want to half lap or mortise. Simpler is to do a simple rabbeted **** joint. Just because it's rustic doesn't mean it can't be built right with decent joinery.

 

[gungatim]

well since plywood is made from real wood, what does it look like? I guess it is subjective, but plywood looks like real wood to me...compare the top and side stiles to the center panel...

 

[jrp458]

Pocket holes for the actual "box" construction for the cabinet is what you need. You could even use it for the face frame construction if you wanted. Personally, for a vanity, I would choose rough cut cedar over pallet wood, but that choice is really up to you.

Miter joints aren't a terrible option, but I feel like I would have to see pictures and/or plans for the cabinet to know for sure.

To distress the wood, stain in, then run over it with a sander, rougher in some places where it looks like it would wear more than others.

 

[bullnerd]

I tried to find an example of a real built in, but no luck. Just Google "board and batten door", you'll see what I mean. You don't really need plywood, just use the cedar boards for the sides, frame and door/drawers. I've built them this way using the wall as the back, real strong, you just cant move it. LOL.

EDIT: OK, this place is close, scroll down.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct...wlIjHKpOKWaDlvlg&ust=1456009067010248&cad=rjt

BOOM!....
https://img0.etsystatic.com/003/0/5486590/il_fullxfull.401193388_dz90.jpg

 

[jrp458]

Everyone is telling you to use planks for the sides of the "box" part of the vanity. However, without biscuit joining these, and running the edges through a joiner, you will never be able to get them to glue one smoothly.

 

[derosa]

I'd chime in with the person who said to face the plywood with the cedar. You can build the box by face screwing everything, no need for pocket holes and then veneer the whole thing with 1/8" thick cedar. Cedar will completely cover any screws and make the whole thing uniform. You can distress away. At 1/8" thick or slightly thinner you shouldn't have to worry about the facing boards splitting from trying to move.

I also wouldn't mitre anything if you want rustic.

 

[bullnerd]

Wheres he going to get 1/8" cedar?

 

[derosa]

To give it a rustic look, I'm going to use either pallets or rough sawn cedar to make the door frame, drawer fronts, legs, and on the exposed side a x or just a slash.

Wheres he going to get 1/8" cedar?

cut the rough sawn cedar down to 1/8", seemed obvious to me. My 100.00 used 12" delta bandsaw would have cut that with no problem. Current saw will do 12" boards quicker and cleaner and when I wanted to cut wider still I made a fairly simple jig with a piece of bandsaw blade that let me veneer an 18" wide board.

 

[My Old Tools]

well since plywood is made from real wood, what does it look like? I guess it is subjective, but plywood looks like real wood to me...compare the top and side stiles to the center panel...

Common plywood is rotary cut, i.e. peeled from the log. The grain looks nothing like real wood grain found in planks. If you want flat cut veneered plywood, get out your checkbook.

 

[My Old Tools]

Everyone is telling you to use planks for the sides of the "box" part of the vanity. However, without biscuit joining these, and running the edges through a joiner, you will never be able to get them to glue one smoothly.

Wrong, biscuits do nothing for you in edge gluing, and most decent table saws will give you an edge straight enough to glue up. If the wood is warped nothing will help including biscuits.

 

[bullnerd]

cut the rough sawn cedar down to 1/8", seemed obvious to me. My 100.00 used 12" delta bandsaw would have cut that with no problem. Current saw will do 12" boards quicker and cleaner and when I wanted to cut wider still I made a fairly simple jig with a piece of bandsaw blade that let me veneer an 18" wide board.

LOL, Sounds good. Personally, "veneer" doesn't = rustic to me, but that's just my opinion.

Wrong, biscuits do nothing for you in edge gluing, and most decent table saws will give you an edge straight enough to glue up. If the wood is warped nothing will help including biscuits.

Yeah, if it wasn't for Norm nobody would be using biscuits. Ive seen them put too close to the surface and the dent from the void can be seen after the finish is applied. But , if they work for you ,that's all that matters.

 

[jrp458]

Wrong, biscuits do nothing for you in edge gluing, and most decent table saws will give you an edge straight enough to glue up. If the wood is warped nothing will help including biscuits.

No, the biscuits will, in fact, keep your boards aligned.

 

[derosa]

My old tools is largely right, if you need biscuits to align your boards you're not straightening the boards enough and the biscuits can show through if they swell from the glue. Use cauls if your worried about about a little bit of alignment during glue up.

 

[bullnerd]

Howd you make out?

 

[Ohmthis]

I've got a plan. I'm going to make the box from plywood and wrap the exposed sides with rough cut wood. I have a lead on some barn wood 2x6. I'll have to rip them on the band saw. My brothers shop has had some work done and he won't be set up for a couple weeks. I'll post a build as it goes. Thanks for all of the advice.

 

[BikerDad]

Everyone is telling you to use planks for the sides of the "box" part of the vanity. However, without biscuit joining these, and running the edges through a joiner, you will never be able to get them to glue one smoothly.

1. Edge joining them without biscuits is fine. It simply takes paying a little more attention.
2. If he shiplaps the planks, then joining the planks to one another would be counterproductive.
3. The objective is a rustic look, not a surface plate quality flat plane.

 

[BikerDad]

Wheres he going to get 1/8" cedar?

Any big box store will have it. Cedar Closet liner. Already has the edges prepped similar to shiplaps. Cut to length, adhere it (glue and/or brads/nails/pins/screws) to the surface and bobs yer uncle.

 

[bullnerd]

Sounds good.

I've got a plan. I'm going to make the box from plywood and wrap the exposed sides with rough cut wood. I have a lead on some barn wood 2x6. I'll have to rip them on the band saw. My brothers shop has had some work done and he won't be set up for a couple weeks. I'll post a build as it goes. Thanks for all of the advice.

"Cedar Closet liner"...Aromatic cedar? Not really the right stuff for this is it?

 

[Ohmthis]

No, not really the look I'd be going for. While I'm waiting for my brother to get his shop back up and running, I've been looking at different woods for the "rustic". We have an Amish saw mill not too far away and they can cut almost any size I want. Not too bad on the price either. There is also a guy down the street whom I talked to about some barn wood that he has. It's quite a bit of money, but does have an awesome look to it. And then there's the pallet wood, it's free and may be the least amount of "working" to get the sizes I need. I'm going to get three samples and let mama decide. I'll post a pic of what I get. May be a couple of days, I'm laid up with a broken ankle and someone has to drive me.

 

[bullnerd]

Bummer on the ankle, as an ex motocross rider, I know all about ankle fun!

I don't have the patience for the pallets personally. Have you ever taken one apart? It might change your mind.

Id go with the barn wood first ,then the Amish stuff. You have to look at it every time you go to your cabin, do you want to see an old pallet or some sweet rustic woodworking! LOL.

 

[Ohmthis]

Bullnerd, I have taken them apart. There is a pallet buster you can make (google it) that does help out. The one thing I like about the pallet wood (most I have worked with) is that they are oak. It's tough, but pretty easy to work with. The rough cut cedar is VERY rough. Like get splinters every time you touch it rough. Anyone who has tried to hammer a nail into an old piece of barn wood knows it is HARD!!! I'm going to see how easy the sample is to shoot some brads into. If I have to drill and hand hammer each piece, that could be a huge pain in the ***! My wood working tools consist of a 12 compound mitre saw, three nailers (trim, brad, and pin), jig saw, a router, but limited on bits, a drill press, chisels, and hand saws. I'm going to rely on my bro for quite a bit of tools and help (it is hard to feed a full sheet of plywood on the table saw with two feet).

 

[bullnerd]

Yeah, I have rough sawn cedar on my house, splinter city!

Sounds good, keep updated on which ever way you go.

 

[Ohmthis]

A little update. I finished the vanity sans stain and handles. I did take progress pictures (but they are one my phone and need to be transferred) as I went. Once I can get them to the computer and linked here I'll make a write up. I ended up going the pallet wood route and it did turn out nice in my opinion. I did end up buying an inexpensive table saw to keep from from having to run to my brothers all of the time. Thanks for all of the advice and inspiration. Here's a teaser pic.

 

[383]

That looks great, but you are going to have a hard time keeping water in the sink.......just kidding.

Here is a link to a thread that shows how I have been getting a rustic look on the wood in my basement. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=327531 The only trouble is that there are a lot of variables that will affect the final color. I'm finding that temperature affects drying time which changes the finish. Type of wood, how much sap, strength of solution all make a difference. I would recommend experimenting on scraps that are as close to the actual would that you used.

 

[Ohmthis]

383, I'm just going to use regular stain (minwax). The variations should be interesting.

 

[salavanti]

fix cupped/warped wood

anyone have any fixes for warped wood.....I have 5 planks that were glued together but cupped....20 inches wide, 4' long