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Spreading the Bonney affliction!

3baygarage

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Cool wrenches. I happened to take pics of this alligator and offset screwdriver recently.

This wrench is also a No 2. What do you guys call this, the jelly bean logo?

Just too bad it’s been shaved down on one side. Maybe the past owner needed a pedal wrench.

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Private Lugnutz

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What do you guys call this, the jelly bean logo?
Yes. Although staying in the unhealthy food groups category, I have always thought it looked more like a hot dog! :) Oddly, we don't have a catalog reference. Deduction places it sometime between very early and the 1914 Princeton shield logos, and somewhere between Philly and Allentown.

Your wrench is shown in the 1914 cat directly under the regular nickel finish one I posted on the previous page. Described as identical except for the finish being black with polished and raised jaws. But with the Princeton shield logo. It is not shown in the 1888 cat.
 

Shelbylex

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Got an interesting one recently: 424B (9/16-5/8) . It's a thin wrench and might come very handy in the future. I never new Bonney made thin wrenches
 

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Private Lugnutz

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I never new Bonney made thin wrenches
Nice find. They made two styles of tappet wrenches in the 30's and 40's. One style, with 40X model numbers, had the same size opening on each end, with one end being set straight (0* angle), and the other set at a 22-1/2* angle. The other style, which is what you found, with 42X model numbers, had a different size opening on each end, and the ends were set at 15* angles, like engineers wrenches. If you want to look for the others, they ran from 420A (7/16 x 1/2) to 428 (15/16 x 1). And if you search the thread on "tappet" I believe catalog excerpts have been posted before.

EDIT: I only have a few 42X orphans, and this set of the others...
 

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Shelbylex

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Thank you, Lugz. I think that I should pay more attention to Bonney.
Tool addiction is a scary thing: with every piece you learn something new and the desire to learn and collect increases.
I now understand the advices of senior and more experienced members of GJ to try to concentrate to few specific brands and few periods. American Tool History is just fascinating!
 

Shelbylex

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Cash clip might be not as important if you have patience and do not mind restoring. The sanity though...
 
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Private Lugnutz

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Jellybean, hotdog...I personally think it looks like the Heinz Pickle logo.
But the Jellybean/Frankfurter logo doesn't have any nubs. Or are those Disstonian "nibs"? :evil:

A hot dog is simply a Frankfurter in a bun. No bun, no hot dog.

Ask me how I know.
You pushed a cart around the streets before you were a linesman? You saw it on Jeopardy? You were born in Germany? :) Do tell!
 

LesserSon

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Couple acquisitions to post.
006 electricians’ screwdriver - my first
406 tappet wrench - now I have a pair
flaring tool - not sure about the yoke - the only mark is a “16” followed by a figure in a box - anyone know?
“A” wrench, to go with my “D” wrench...again, no other marks, but Roy turned my attention to the malleable iron wrenches on p32 of the 1914 catalog - I figure, when I get wrenches B, C & E, I’ll receive a free shop cap
 

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Private Lugnutz

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Picked up this 1945 BONALOY 2883 Chevy starter wrench at the flea this morning.
 

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Private Lugnutz

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I also picked up this whopper at the flea market this morning. 866C. I think LS might have a few of these. I can't seem to find a catalog reference. 1927 date code. It's hard to see, but it's stamped "TEXTILE MACHINE WORKS" in the middle of the recess in the shank.
 

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BlakeTheCarGuy

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This is the Bonney tools that I have I think that’s all at least it’s all I can find right now. I have Bon-E-Con also wasn’t sure if I could post that here or not.


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Oldtuleguy

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390694ed016ba408e7b16ef8f45d0543.jpged42d4a1f1743125960eb2adb2f655f7.jpga1086b7cc59fb0e835f53e0563d65260.jpg
This is the Bonney tools that I have I think that’s all at least it’s all I can find right now. I have Bon-E-Con also wasn’t sure if I could post that here or not.


Love to see some bon e-con!
 

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BlakeTheCarGuy

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This is the Bonney tools that I have I think that’s all at least it’s all I can find right now. I have Bon-E-Con also wasn’t sure if I could post that here or not.





Love to see some bon e-con!



Ok great I have some of that too I will post here.


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BlakeTheCarGuy

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a8ee85b0b1fa418265d788d0b9ae5344.jpg
Here is a Bon-E-Con 1/2 drive 11/16 socket I have more somewhere just have to find them. I also have some at work.


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Oldsoul

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My go to 5/8-3/4 wrench
 

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d42jeep

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On Thursday we found this wartime Bonaloy DBE wrench at a Nevada estate sale. It will soon be making its way to Ohio.
-Don
 

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Old Radar

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I have some questions I hope the Bonney aficionados can help me with.

Last week I found this Bonney CV 1723 1/4 & 1/16 Hex Cap DOE. Researching on AA, I’ve learned that it was likely made between 1923 and 1925 base upon these two assertions:

-- CV-Circle logo with Chrome-Vanadium, used in advertisements as early as 1923
-- B-Shield logo. First use unknown, used until approximately mid 1920s. The date code system indicates that this marking was discontinued in mid to late 1925.

My question involves the date code discussion on AA. They have promoted the seemingly reasonable theory that the often-seen forged two-letter codes represent the manufacture date of the tool. They even provide a link for readers to visit the web page of Skip Echert, an AA reader who has researched this and whose findings align with the views of AA. That link, however, is dead.

My particular wrench has the forged-in letters FC, and given the other empirical evidence on the wrench, is at odds with the following quote from AA (emphasis is mine):

“The reader's suggestion seems reasonable enough, and we are now in the process of reviewing our numerous examples of tools (mostly wrenches) with forged-in codes. The preliminary results indicate that the forged-in codes do appear to represent a date coding system, although in a slightly different form than the original suggestion. The main difference is that Bonney appears to have used only the 14 letters M-Z to indicate the year, rather than all 26 letters, with the 12 letters A-L reserved for use only as the month codes. With the use of this restricted set of letters for the year code, the system would cycle through the codes every 14 years.

Some of the strongest evidence in favor of the date code intepretation comes from a series of early wrenches marked with the Chrome-Vanadium or CV-Circle logo plus a forged-in B-Shield logo. Based on this combination of markings, these wrenches would be expected to have been manufactured in 1923 or the following few years, and in the available examples the year codes are clustered together as "O", "P", and "Q". Thus if the baseline of the system is selected as 1921 for the first "M" code, the {O,P,Q} codes would correspond to 1923-1925, fitting nicely with our prior expectations.”

Without viewing Mr. Echert's analysis I cannot say what differences prompted AA to use a "slightly different form than the original suggestion." But AA's dating method (without their M-Z restriction) would put my "F" coded wrench back to 1914, which is clearly wrong. Has anyone found other examples that don’t fit within this dating system? Are there differing theories that attempt to decode these letters?

Thanks! I'm looking forward to your comments.

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LesserSon

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Provincial, (EDIT - ahem - Old Radar,)
I am such a strong adherent to the AA date code explanation, that I would prefer almost any other interpretation than accept that the second letter is intentionally a C.
I have had a couple anomalies where I was convinced the second letter belonged in the A-L range, but (with help from some other members) eventually persuaded myself that it was a flawed character. Your example is much cleaner, but I feel the open (right) is just a tad too closed compared to the Cs in the correct position.
I would suggest it is an O or (less likely, since the tail would also have to be missing) Q (so 1923 or 1925) with a missing bit on the right side. Or someone actually screwed up and made a die with an FC on it.
 
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LesserSon

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The date code system (as understood) also is first used in 1921, so 1914 cannot be derived from date codes, whatever they may be.

A-Jan B-Feb C-Mar
D-Apr E-May F-Jun
G-Jul H-Aug I-Sep
J-Oct K-Nov L-Dec

M 1921 1935 1949 1963
N 1922 1936 1950 1964
O 1923 1937 1951 1965
P 1924 1938 1952 1966
Q 1925 1939 1953
R 1926 1940 1954
S 1927 1941 1955
T 1928 1942 1956
U 1929 1943 1957
V 1930 1944 1958
W 1931 1945 1959
X 1932 1946 1960
Y 1933 1947 1961
Z 1934 1948 1962
 
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Private Lugnutz

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Right. Theoretically, though, a challenge to the date code system that would seemingly buck the data code system couldn't in good faith be answered by simply re-stating the premise of the data code system starting in 1921. Just sayin. :) I concur with the worn or mis-forged "O" maybe "Q" explanation, btw, and, although I'm far too lazy, put off by the inferior search function, or otherwise disinclined to go back and make a record of it now, it seems to me that most if not all of the "anomalies" we have seen before have been that same "C" issue. If there were others, I bet those, too, tended to be just a few other similarly problematic letters.
 

LesserSon

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a challenge to the date code system that would seemingly buck the data code system couldn't in good faith be answered by simply re-stating the premise of the data code system starting in 1921.

No argument there. I think I signaled my dogmatism fairly at the outset of both my responses.

RTM:
Thanks for that. It does flesh out the AA allusion. SE would have had to examine a LOT of examples to recognize that his initial scheme didn’t match the evidence.

I recently read that it is intrinsically easier to detect errors in another’s thinking or performance than to detect them in our own. Hence the value of both collaboration and competition.
 
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Old Radar

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Provincial,
I am such a strong adherent to the AA date code explanation, that I would prefer almost any other interpretation than accept that the second letter is intentionally a C.
I have had a couple anomalies where I was convinced the second letter belonged in the A-L range, but (with help from some other members) eventually persuaded myself that it was a flawed character. Your example is much cleaner, but I feel the open (right) is just a tad too closed compared to the Cs in the correct position.
I would suggest it is an O or (less likely, since the tail would also have to be missing) Q (so 1923 or 1925) with a missing bit on the right side. Or someone actually screwed up and made a die with an FC on it.

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/3oEjHO6kED0gWOSpCU" width="480" height="262" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="https://giphy.com/gifs/3oEjHO6kED0gWOSpCU"></a></p>

You must be talking to me. ;)

Thanks for everyone's response! First let me say that I made the rash and erroneous assumption that the first letter represented the year. The only reason I can put forth for this assumption is that, of the two letters, the 'F' was closest to the M-Z year range. I then extrapolated the M-Z dates back to F and noted that the resulting 1914 date would clearly be wrong.

I was so focused on the F as the year (even checking closely that the F could not be a poorly cast P) that I didn't give the C equal scrutiny.

I have now corrected that--and since my scanning electron microscope is still in the shop, these are the most detailed shots I could achieve. First one has light coming from the right and next from the left (upside down).

Given the more detailed images, I believe the simplest explanation is the most likely, and like LesserSon's suggestion to Provincial, it seems that an 'O' was poorly cast and gives the appearance of a 'C'.

This leaves me with a wrench made in June 1923. I'll take it!

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LesserSon

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You must be talking to me...LesserSon's suggestion to Provincial...

Wow! Now there’s an example of fallibility and misperception...I think I was reading a post by Prov’ on another thread, then came here and read your post without really “seeing” your username & avatar for what they are...just “aircraft pointed to the left.” Not even the same era of aircraft!
(Sad thing is, I’m wearing my glasses! Full disclosure: you’re not the only pair of members I’ve confused.)
Sorry!
 
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Oldtuleguy

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Nice stuff Blake, love the styling on the cv sockets. They toned it down a bit on the bon-e-con.
 

BlakeTheCarGuy

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Nice stuff Blake, love the styling on the cv sockets. They toned it down a bit on the bon-e-con.



Thanks yes I like it too. I have a few more Bon-E-Con sockets that I found I will try to post them soon and going to the pawn shop sometime this week so I usually find a couple there each week so I will post them too if I find any.


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Crankyengineer

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Very nice tools! I have a pretty diverse collection of tools, German, U.S, British and Australian but I haven't had the pleasure of holding a Bonney. This will change in the near future.
 
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bonneyman

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Very nice tools! I have a pretty diverse collection of tools, German, U.S, British and Australian but I haven't had the pleasure of holding a Bonney. This will change in the near future.

I, for one, would recommend against touching a Bonney. Because then you'll be hooked and have to buy all that you find....and that would make less for me! :lol:
 
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