Yes, after forging.
Spreading the Bonney affliction!
- Thread starter bonneyman
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Yes, after forging.
Private Lugnutz
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Hello Shelbylex, I haven't a clue if it was made by Blackhawk. Ill see if I can dig up some more info.
Oh just an FYI, there is another exact box like this on the 'bay for sale but it is in rougher shape but cheaper. I believe seller is out in Cali. If someone wants to snag it. I have no connection to it, I came across it searching before I found this one. I can post the link if anyone wants to take a look.
Oh just an FYI, there is another exact box like this on the 'bay for sale but it is in rougher shape but cheaper. I believe seller is out in Cali. If someone wants to snag it. I have no connection to it, I came across it searching before I found this one. I can post the link if anyone wants to take a look.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Shelby,
If you're asking that because you think it bears a resemblance to the Blackhawk "Treasure Chest" boxes, it's much more likely that Blackhawk and Bonney had the same OEM. I can't speak for Bonney, but Blackhawk had a few chest and box mfgrs. Langenau, in Cleveland, Ohio, who also made boxes for Edgar Guthard, Packer Auto ("RAY") and others, was one of them. I don't think we've gone down that path before with Bonney, frankly, because I don't think anyone has posted one before.
If you're asking that because you think it bears a resemblance to the Blackhawk "Treasure Chest" boxes, it's much more likely that Blackhawk and Bonney had the same OEM. I can't speak for Bonney, but Blackhawk had a few chest and box mfgrs. Langenau, in Cleveland, Ohio, who also made boxes for Edgar Guthard, Packer Auto ("RAY") and others, was one of them. I don't think we've gone down that path before with Bonney, frankly, because I don't think anyone has posted one before.
JjKk40, you definitely got a rare one!!! Hope somebody gets the other one and restores it.
Lugs, it would be interesting to get more info. I did not even know about the other brands you mentioned. I will keep my eyes opened...
Danger of GJ: just when you think you know what you would like to have in your basement, somebody shows something interesting and you start looking for it. : )
Lugs, it would be interesting to get more info. I did not even know about the other brands you mentioned. I will keep my eyes opened...
Danger of GJ: just when you think you know what you would like to have in your basement, somebody shows something interesting and you start looking for it. : )
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Just to clarify, I'm not saying that Edgar C. Guthard ("Billmont") and Packer Auto ("RAY") also had little machinists' type chests with a drop front and a lift-out tray etc. I'm saying that neither Blackhawk or Bonney made their own boxes, Langenau was one of their suppliers, and Langenau also made boxes for other tool mfgrs in that era. None of the tool mfgrs made their own boxes that I know of. If you want to see Billmont and RAY tools and tool-sets, they each have their own thread. You can find them in the Index in the Sticky.
Oldtuleguy
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Thank you for education, Lugz. I will need to read more about Langenau.
I just looked up Billmont and Ray- very interesting. Ray had a great design!
Oldtuleguy, what was the original name of the right box? Blackhawk and Caterpillar branded ones (well, Bonney as well given the box above) had drawers on the left side. I never saw the box with drawers on the right side.
I just looked up Billmont and Ray- very interesting. Ray had a great design!
Oldtuleguy, what was the original name of the right box? Blackhawk and Caterpillar branded ones (well, Bonney as well given the box above) had drawers on the left side. I never saw the box with drawers on the right side.
Oldtuleguy
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Provincial
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I can see a custom label with a G replacing the C!
OTG
OTG
Oldtuleguy
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Haha I had not thought of that
JjKk40,
Congrats on that “unusually fine metal case” / “massive metal box” / “strong metal chest”!
I’d sure like to snap up that lower-priced one in Long Beach, (local pickup only) but unlikely to see the West Coast again before 2022 at the earliest. Hopefully one will pop up somewhere hereabouts.
Your purchase prompted me to re-examine the late 1930s catalog PDFs. I notice that from 1938 to 1939 the extra small 9/32 drive M sets are replaced by the 1/4 inch drive V sets (in case you recreate a No. AA or AA1 set). And the advertised dimensions of your case change from 27L12H13W to 26-1/2L12L11-1/4W. I suspect that marks a change from advertising external to internal dimensions. When yours arrives, would you please check and post the verdict?
Congrats on that “unusually fine metal case” / “massive metal box” / “strong metal chest”!
I’d sure like to snap up that lower-priced one in Long Beach, (local pickup only) but unlikely to see the West Coast again before 2022 at the earliest. Hopefully one will pop up somewhere hereabouts.
Your purchase prompted me to re-examine the late 1930s catalog PDFs. I notice that from 1938 to 1939 the extra small 9/32 drive M sets are replaced by the 1/4 inch drive V sets (in case you recreate a No. AA or AA1 set). And the advertised dimensions of your case change from 27L12H13W to 26-1/2L12L11-1/4W. I suspect that marks a change from advertising external to internal dimensions. When yours arrives, would you please check and post the verdict?
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In LesserNews, I cleaned up the 18” wood-handled Stillson acquired recently. I glued and supplemented the splintered handle, previously mummified in black tape. The ventral leaf spring was broken, so I removed the broken bit. Have to see about a replacement.
Here’s a family portrait showing all advertised sizes, and three periods of production. Weirdly, of the several dupes in my posession, most are era-twins within their respective sizes.
Turning my attention to the all-steel variety, which has a wider range (up to 48”!).
Here’s a family portrait showing all advertised sizes, and three periods of production. Weirdly, of the several dupes in my posession, most are era-twins within their respective sizes.
Turning my attention to the all-steel variety, which has a wider range (up to 48”!).
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Private Lugnutz
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Nice spread, LS.
LesserSon i definitely will check and post back for sure. Those Stillsons are gorgeous man! Sweet collection!
Oh and I had some communication with that ebay seller in Cali. He was willing to ship it to me but I didn't go thru because I had bought this other box. So I bet he would ship to someone.
Oh and I had some communication with that ebay seller in Cali. He was willing to ship it to me but I didn't go thru because I had bought this other box. So I bet he would ship to someone.
LesserSon...what an incredible collection of pipe wrenches!
So, what I have here is not a worthy follow-up, but it's all I have at the moment: This Bonney DOE has a marking that's either an L or a J. But what's nutty about it is that one end appears to be a knock-off of a Williams "Ratcho" style. It really does look like it's forged that way, but I have to believe it was probably modified. Anyone know if Bonney ever made that Ratcho style?
So, what I have here is not a worthy follow-up, but it's all I have at the moment: This Bonney DOE has a marking that's either an L or a J. But what's nutty about it is that one end appears to be a knock-off of a Williams "Ratcho" style. It really does look like it's forged that way, but I have to believe it was probably modified. Anyone know if Bonney ever made that Ratcho style?
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There's nothing at all on the other side. Measures 1" on one end, and 7/8" on the other (modified) end. Also, there happens to be a similar Bonney on ebay with a "k" marking in this photo:
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Those are malleable machinery wrenches, then: “F” through “K”.
Yours is “J” (7/8x1). “K” would be 1-1/8x1-1/4.
From the 1919 catalog:
The illustration shows a shield logo. I’m not sure whether your “BONNEY” logo would be earlier or later, but it would not be too far off the centigenerian-mark. Actually, the difference could be just the illustrator taking artistic license.
Yours is “J” (7/8x1). “K” would be 1-1/8x1-1/4.
From the 1919 catalog:
The illustration shows a shield logo. I’m not sure whether your “BONNEY” logo would be earlier or later, but it would not be too far off the centigenerian-mark. Actually, the difference could be just the illustrator taking artistic license.
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Thank you (and JjKk40 and Lugz). There’s something about the marriage of steel and wood that I find beautiful. However, from a pragmatic POV, the all-steel models are superior. The narrow, steel rat-tail of the woodies tends to bow under strain, cracking the wood sheath. I can imagine the wood handles were more comfortable in temperature extremes, but they weren’t as durable.
BTW, the related “A” through “E” wrenches are S-shaped. I was crowing and grousing about them a few posts back.
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Private Lugnutz
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PSCo1867: If you're interested in seeing other examples of your wrench, search the thread on "Malleable". They don't show up too often, but we have had a few before. I can't remember who owns them all, precisely, but I know I have identified at least one before for RagTopTA, and I think maybe leg17.
Oldtuleguy
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Oldtuleguy
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Nice. Was curious about them.
I have this 3/8" extension, 16" long. Rusty and pitted, been sitting in my used tool coffee can for awhile. Figured I'd take it out and see if I could clean it up.
Put a coat of high temp silver on it, then noticed a detent ball in the female drive end. Realized it would take a cross bar! Found a suitable piece of steel rod in my scrap bin and slapped some rubber caps on the ends to keep it from falling out. I now have a long T-driver! With a magnetic socket it might do well as a bolt starter in a recessed place.
Put a coat of high temp silver on it, then noticed a detent ball in the female drive end. Realized it would take a cross bar! Found a suitable piece of steel rod in my scrap bin and slapped some rubber caps on the ends to keep it from falling out. I now have a long T-driver! With a magnetic socket it might do well as a bolt starter in a recessed place.
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Oldtuleguy
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Doubled as a lever for i think a valve spring compressor. Thats why its so beefy.
Provincial
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Pratt & Whitney extension/valve spring depressor handle that was included in the tool kit that was included with each new commercial engine, and widely distributed through military channels. They are often rusty because of wartime finishes that were less protection against the elements.
I really like them for their (designed-in) rigidity. I regularly used them for their original purpose on R-985 and R-1830 engines, which is attached to a "socket" that fits over the valve end of the rocker arm to compress the valve far enough to remove the push rod.
I really like them for their (designed-in) rigidity. I regularly used them for their original purpose on R-985 and R-1830 engines, which is attached to a "socket" that fits over the valve end of the rocker arm to compress the valve far enough to remove the push rod.
Stillgottimefor1
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I love the way you speak in writing, I would bet money you have tought many mechanics. You are a wealth of knowledge.
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I recieved the box and I gotta tell ya I'm blown away at the condition and the overall construction. I haven't mic'd the gage of the steel but it must be at least 16 gage. What did you want me to check out on it exactly? The specs you posed both check out inside and outside overall. Let me know.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
LS was trying to determine if the box actually shrank a little from the mid to late 30s? (Seems unlikely.) Or whether, as he suspected, Bonney just used outside dimensions in a catalog and then inside dimensions in a later catalog indiscriminately, without clarifying that in the catalogs.
Yes, exactly. Just the drop front probably accounts for much of the difference between the advertised widths, if my hunch is correct. I can imagine Bonney getting complaints like, “my 26-7/8” extension does not fit inside that 27” case you sold me!”
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I spotted a 10” all-steel Stillson on the ‘bay, which arrived today. I would not usually have paid ePrices for something so likely to turn up at a flea, but this one stood out for three reasons:
- great condition,
- family resemblance to the BSPCo rat handle (other generations do not share this resemblence),
- adorable reversed “E” in “Made” (plus bonus ghostly overstrikes on both sides).
Had to have it.
Edit - the date codes: main body is March (or maybe July) 1923, dynamic jaw is December 1923. And of course, the BSPCo is October 1923.
Now I wonder if a 12” Stillson of that year would show a greater or lesser degree of resemblence...
- great condition,
- family resemblance to the BSPCo rat handle (other generations do not share this resemblence),
- adorable reversed “E” in “Made” (plus bonus ghostly overstrikes on both sides).
Had to have it.
Edit - the date codes: main body is March (or maybe July) 1923, dynamic jaw is December 1923. And of course, the BSPCo is October 1923.
Now I wonder if a 12” Stillson of that year would show a greater or lesser degree of resemblence...
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Here are my all-steel guys, not cleaned up yet.
Missing 12”, 18” to 48”(MrsLS won’t be super happy when I find that one). The 6” and 8” do not have date codes that I have seen. Their non-resemblence to similar, other Bonney production does make me suspicious of outsourcing. These resemble that Erie-made one I posted, in overall form, minus the “Guaranteed” and round size marks, but even more, the 6” one posted by JjKk40, which differs from mine mostly by having heavier logo stamping.
I’m not sure yet about the 14” - looks like LN on the jaw, and MAYBE a date code on the body (or not). Note that while there is a strong resemblence to the 10”, the handle of the 14” does not taper, while the 10” has a slight beavertail, like the BSPCo rat.
Problem with these is, catalogs only show two versions over a 40-year span. Maybe magazine ads would be more detailed.
Missing 12”, 18” to 48”(MrsLS won’t be super happy when I find that one). The 6” and 8” do not have date codes that I have seen. Their non-resemblence to similar, other Bonney production does make me suspicious of outsourcing. These resemble that Erie-made one I posted, in overall form, minus the “Guaranteed” and round size marks, but even more, the 6” one posted by JjKk40, which differs from mine mostly by having heavier logo stamping.
I’m not sure yet about the 14” - looks like LN on the jaw, and MAYBE a date code on the body (or not). Note that while there is a strong resemblence to the 10”, the handle of the 14” does not taper, while the 10” has a slight beavertail, like the BSPCo rat.
Problem with these is, catalogs only show two versions over a 40-year span. Maybe magazine ads would be more detailed.
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Private Lugnutz
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Yeah. That's an instant keeper.
z28lsc
Well-known member
I had never heard of Bonney before I joined this site. And I had just vowed to curb my tool purchases until I had my shop set up and tools organized but I did add Bonney to my "If I Happen To Stumble across Some" list.
I also noticed that in my TONS of hand tools there was a very short list of tool brands not represented...Bonney was one and it planted a bug in my newly repressed OCD.
Then I found this:
I did "stumble across a Bonney 2804-L 3/8 and 7/16 double box end wrench but in order to get it I had to buy 37 wrenches...and a Craftsman Crown Top toolbox. But it was only $15.00 so my Bonney collection had begun. Now with a wrench and a tool box I have a good start!
This is a good thing...Isn't it?
Bruce[/QUOTENice toolbox.