Starting the garage plan, what should I include?

[mpire]

Lakefront property is secured, now we are looking at house layouts and making decisions. Garage square feet is cheaper than house square feet, so now's a good time to figure out the garage layout.

Builder suggests that a 30x50 would so everything I needed. I was thinking I could divide it in half with a wall, keeping one side 25x30 for clean storage and 25x30 for the lift, truck parking, and project space. Each side with a standard 16 foot insulated garage door. Clean side to store 4 M Coupes and shop side to house the truck and a Z3.

Concrete block construction up to 12 feet. Do I need 14 feet on the lift side? Should I consider a room over the storage garage and have an 8 foot ceiling there instead? The plan is to have the open style trusses and build a small lift/elevator to attic storage over the garage.

Is 25w x 30d going to be big enough workshop space? That's the thing I'm worried about the most, but can't exactly go crazy because I have to budget.

Ok, back to reading other posts on this exact topic.

 

[ncornilsen]

I just built a 30'x 48' building.

Build it 32' wide. You'll be ripping all of your sheet goods down... but for some reason it seems to always take more than half the sheet...

As for whether 25x30 is big enough - there's a simple formula for this.

X=N+250

Where:
X - Ideal shop size
N-Current square footage of shop area.

So, I guess it depends on what you're doing in this workshop.

 

[driftpin]

I suggest building the largest, highest space you can afford. > 8 ft if you're wanting a room over the storage side, for the ground level.

Lots of outlets, EMT conduit, 4" boxes, even if you only install duplex outlets X1. Some recommend alternating the circuit every other box, so if one goes out, you still have the next box in-line to use.

Plan where you need 240V and sufficient amps for a compressor, welder, table saw, and whatever else you plan on using, now & in the future.

Pneumatic drops, maybe a couple of hose reels for the pneumatic lines.

Lots of LED lighting of a color spectrum you like. I prefer higher K than lower, yellow K.

At least one exterior 20 amp 120V electrical box front & rear.

A half-bath is always nice, and doesn't use much room.

 

[mpire]

I suggest building the largest, highest space you can afford. > 8 ft if you're wanting a room over the storage side, for the ground level.

If the house is 12 foot tall, would I get away with a lift in only a 12 foot garage or would I need to go higher?

Lots of outlets, EMT conduit, 4" boxes, even if you only install duplex outlets X1. Some recommend alternating the circuit every other box, so if one goes out, you still have the next box in-line to use.

This is a good idea. I'll probably be doing the electrical myself anyway, so more is easy.

Plan where you need 240V and sufficient amps for a compressor, welder, table saw, and whatever else you plan on using, now & in the future.

Hmmm, didn't think of that.

Pneumatic drops, maybe a couple of hose reels for the pneumatic lines.

I don't want those inside the walls though, right? I had regular copper pipe in the last place, I'm putting the compressor in a lean-to closet on the outside of the building for sound reasons.

Lots of LED lighting of a color spectrum you like. I prefer higher K than lower, yellow K.

I helped a buddy put in LED can lights, apparently one every 4 feet wasn't enough, so I'll space them closer together with wiring in a checkerboard pattern so I can turn on half.

A half-bath is always nice, and doesn't use much room.

I'm good there, the guest bath will be right inside the door.

 

[Cairo94507]

I think your working shop size is a bit tight. I would make it a bit bigger, 30x40? Pad thickness? Maybe 5" 4000 PSI concrete.; allow lift placement anywhere. How about radiant heat in the pad? What type of floor finish? I like polished concrete (Costco floors) for ease of cleaning.

Lots of electrical outlets some low and some higher. Add sufficient electric for an electric car charging station, lift, welder, compressor, refrigerator, etc. LED lighting at the rate of double what you think you will need. The older we get the more lighting we like so we can work without struggling to see. I used 2'x2' LED flush mount light panels in my last garage and absolutely loved them. Trying to cover large ceiling with can lighting is a whole lot of cans.

Run airlines around the whole shop with hose reels either up in the ceiling or up high; 2 is probably sufficient. I like one near the roll-up doors so I can get air outside if I have a car in the driveway I want to do something with.

Plenty of solid cabinets with good rollers on the drawers and soft close hinges. I designed my last garage cabinets to replace my roll-a-way. I loved that everything had a good solid drawer and I had no roll-a-way to have to deal with. I used an engineered counter top that was tough and never did get damaged after some serious use. I also had under-cabinet lighting for all the counter top areas.

A nice wash-out sink, large enough to do what you think you might need- no little corner sinks as they are too limiting in use.

Garage doors/openers - Insulated doors are well worth it. I really like the Chamberlain jack-shaft openers as they are very quiet and no drive track on the ceiling. Really clean look and the added benefit of a locking rod when the door is closed.

Windows - Natural light is a good thing. Plan you windows so you do not lose all your cabinet space. Maybe even some good quality skylights.

 

[RPH]

Thirty foot isn’t that deep once the tools and benches come in. If possible go deeper and revel in the extra room provided.

 

[mpire]

I think your working shop size is a bit tight. I would make it a bit bigger, 30x40?

Thanks for the ideas! Its going to be a massive garage already. That would be 30x65 overall. You only live once, right?

 

[RPH]

I have a 30’x72’ building. Sounds big but cars and trucks take up a lot of room. Tools, benches, and other support items eat up space. That extra 6’-10’ width would be greatly appreciated.

 

[anomm701]

I built a 30x45 works well for me

 

[Metal-Marc]

As for whether 25x30 is big enough - there's a simple formula for this.

X=N+250

Where:
X - Ideal shop size
N-Current square footage of shop area.

So, I guess it depends on what you're doing in this workshop.

X=(N+250)²

 

[Steve W.]

A lot of the size requirements will depend on exactly what you want to do. You only mentioned "project space" without detailing what the projects are.

At 30' deep (minus wall thicknesses), you are at minimum depth for parking a truck and having any hope of working under the hood or opening the tailgate. I have a 24x30, with the overhead door on the 30 side. My son parked his C3500 crew cab dually in there once, just to see if it would fit. We put the rear bumper about 2" from the back wall and closed the overhead door. We could just barely shimmy across the front bumper, but we were dragging our knees on the bumper and our butts on the door Not something I would want to do on a regular basis. With your 30' depth, you would almost have enough room to have a tool cart there with you.

Width is something else to consider carefully. If you are working on a car (or truck), I have heard that you need to plan on having THREE
spaces. One to park the truck, one for the stuff you have removed and another for all the stuff you need to install. That will easily burn up the 25x30 space on that half of the building.

What else? Others have already mentioned electrical, air lines and a half-bath. I agree on all. I was questioned why I did not include a shower in mine. I have heard that if you have a shower, the inspectors might be looking a little closer for the possibility of occupying the shop space as a rental residence. No shower tends to rule that out rather quickly.

Lots of lights. In several zones, if possible.

Windows, if possible. I had awning windows installed. They are as near the top of the 8' walls as they could be, which still allows me to see out (I'm rather tall), but the average person outside can only look at an upward angle and see the lights. The awning-style windows allows me to leave them open in a rain storm.

TAKE PICTURES AS YOU GO. Yeah, we like to see pictures, but take specific pictures of electrical and plumbing routes through the walls before you cover the studs. Print them out on 8.5x11 paper, put them in plastic sleeves in a binder. Not only does it make a great " brag book", it's a great reference to find what's behind the wall sheeting.

.

 

[Lucky Llama]

I have a 30x50 built with cmu. I have gone the other way on widows, I have none. My last garage had windows and light seemed to always be where I didn’t want it. It made it difficult to see in to an engine bay when light was shining on the fender. I do consider 14’ ceiling a must for full use of a lift.

 

[CraigStu]

You could use storage or attic trusses in part of the building and scissor trusses to get room for the lift. That gives you a constant roof profile and different inside ceiling profile.

http://www.southwesthomeandhearth.com/swt/images/trussprofiles.pdf

 

[05snopro440]

If the house is 12 foot tall, would I get away with a lift in only a 12 foot garage or would I need to go higher?

I helped a buddy put in LED can lights, apparently one every 4 feet wasn't enough, so I'll space them closer together with wiring in a checkerboard pattern so I can turn on half.

My garage is 38' wide x 32' long. Three 10'x10x doors on the 38' side. Of more interest to you, my house is a raised bungalow and the garage and house share the same roof elevation. So I have 12' ceilings in the garage and a 4-post lift. I used it for my hobby vehicles that are up to probably 58" tall, or less.

I'm 6'2", and I can lift all my custom vehicles to a height tall enough to work under comfortably. If we're talking a full-size 4wd truck or SUV at stock height then it would be a bit low, but I don't do that stuff on my lift (my lift is too narrow for a full size truck anyways). A 2-post lift would pair better with a lower ceiling. 14' would give you more breathing room, but 12' is more than adequate for home use in my application.

In my garage, there were 6 light sockets, one at each end of each bay. I replaced each with a duplex outlet which allows me to plug in LED work lights which connect together. The best part though is that each of my 6 outlet locations for the lights has its own switch. It's a lot more useful than you'd expect to be able to dial in the light easily.

Regarding windows, I had no windows and didn't want any in my new one even when we bought this house, mostly for security reasons. Now that I've worked in there with the big windows it has, I wouldn't go back.

 

[firebirdparts]

Height depends on what you're going to pick up and how high. that's all there is to it. From the frame to the roof, a car is only about 4 feet. Your truck is more like 5. You'll just have to figure that out.

At this stage, it seems like it's important to get the overall dimensions right (build as big as you can stand it) and provide for the plumbing and heat/cool. Other than that, you can work it all out later as your needs change.

It sounds ugly parking 4 M coupes in a 25 by 30 building with a single door on the 30 side. More generally, the building is too small to divide with a wall. That's just generally true. But if you get the exact layout worked out ahead of time and stick to it, then fine. My shop is similar, but it's vertical. I have a 30 by 30 shop on top of a 30 by 30 car storage area. So the clean/dirty thing I get. That's a good idea. But wall effects are very very important in life, and I personally can't stick the plan. I am always buying "cool items" and then they take up shop space.

The wall will be a big impediment and there's nothing to be done about it. If the wall is removed then perhaps the dirt will be a big impediment too.

 

[durk_2007]

At the shop I work at all the standard lifts are 11'8" to the top of the cross bar so 12" is fine but the "Truck" lifts aka diesel lifts are 13'6"

 

[TobeyA]

I have a 30x50. Half of that for a lift, a second car, and work space would be very tight. Unless you're storing one on the lift. What you see in this picture is about 30x30.

 

[kwb]

30' is short if that is the direction you are driving in. Might be okay for a car but you mention lake house. Lakes mean boats, boats turn into bigger boats. On a trailer about as big of a boat as you will get in 30' is 22' or so.

I know a lot of people don't like tandem parking but it makes a lot of sense when it comes to building utilization and flexibility it is also a lot cheaper in the fact that you don't need so many garage doors.

As far as features - I always suggest a couple of I-beams embedded and top surface at grade. Weld things to them as needed, cut off after you are done. No pull pots to be a PITA to sweep around lose things in. One of my great regrets in my build that I didn't do that. I am going to do some covered parking for trailers in the next year or two and I will put something in the slab there just to be able to have an infinitely flexible use anchor point.

 

[Monza Harry]

Lots of great points listed here. I will add that a bathroom rough in is minimum, we all have friends our other half "dislikes" [and other visitors we don't actually know that well] and keeping him/her out of our significant others house will pay dividends now and at resale. Pull pots or the other ideas listed above and an overhead I beam maybe something to consider as well. As to width 25' will be ok to work on one car two can only park in there tightly [6' car with two 4' doors open and you are at 14' wide per car]. Harry
Edit a floor drain if allowed? Not often anymore.

 

[Copymutt]

Couple comments from my errors.
Every window is shelf space not available.
If you have enough property put OH doors on two opposing walls. This permits drive thru and drop the boat/ trailer etc. No cramped backing in of same.

 

[nadogail]

One of the most appreciated features of my workshop is the small room with the working toilet.

 

[Glemon]

As stated, you can compute the height you need if you know what you will be working on. A four post lift will need a few inches beyond measured top to clear the safety locks, exactly where that falls is hard to say, but an extra 6" height over calculated should be plenty.

Sink is a must, I would like a half bath, but don't really feel I need one. I would rather have a place to sit (comfortable chair, not shop stool) when tired and grubby, taking a break from a long project, but that would take up a little room.

High windows are nice if you care about natural light.

I have a wall between both sides of a smaller garage shop. Yes you lose some flexibility, but you gain a lot of wall storage space too.

 

[Road_runner]

I have a 24ft * 24ft with 8 ft ceilings. If I was doing it again, I would definitely go for 10ft ceilings for the non-lift area.

Other "lessons learnt" for me included the following: -

- For the ceiling trusses, go for something that would let me put a reasonable amount of weight "upstairs" - maybe with room trusses to make the space more usable. And a sensible trap door size to allow things to be hoisted up.

- Putting in a steel beam to have a travelling crane hoist for engine changes etc. I omitted it as costs were rising at the time of build.

- A separate room for the compressor, ideally a low level room compartment outside for noise minimisation (and plumbing the garage before moving everything in...)

- A bigger garage!

Best of luck with the new property. I look forward to seeing your build!!!

 

[CraigStu]

It almost seems silly but I REALLY like having a window right at my toolbox work bench. This house it works great because it is in the front wall of the garage so I see who is coming in the driveway. My previous house the bench/window were in the back wall so just looking at lawn and trees but I still liked having it. Check window AC units size especially width. Last house I put one in the lower half of the window and could still see out over it's top. This house I had to cut a hole in the wall for the AC. You don't need one large enough to cool the whole garage by the sq ft chart on the box if you can set it so it is blowing right into the area where you do the most work.

 

[mpire]

A lot of the size requirements will depend on exactly what you want to do. You only mentioned "project space" without detailing what the projects are.

At 30' deep (minus wall thicknesses), you are at minimum depth for parking a truck and having any hope of working under the hood or opening the tailgate.

I park the truck outside, does that make be a bad person?

Width is something else to consider carefully. If you are working on a car (or truck), I have heard that you need to plan on having THREE
spaces. One to park the truck, one for the stuff you have removed and another for all the stuff you need to install. That will easily burn up the 25x30 space on that half of the building.

I'm trying to figure out the overall dimensions. I can fit 2 cars in my 10x30 storage garage, so I figured that all I needed was 20x30, but the extra 5 feet would make it feel less cramped.

There is a lot to sort out. I was looking into the 4 post stacking lift, the storage side would be pretty tight, but I'm trying to optimize the layout. I think I'm stuck with the 12 foot ceiling plus the extra 6 inches for the step up but the car is only 44 inches tall, so I should be ok.

 

[mpire]

how about radiant heat in the pad? What type of floor finish

Definitely no heat needed, I'm in Florida. Air Conditioning is a must, but that will come later on with a mini-split. I'm going to cool the workshop side and the clean room storage side will be mostly dehumidification. I'll probably put in fans to move some air back and forth.

Floors will be grey epoxy with the bare minimum of flakes, thats the lightest color I can get to reflect all the light. My last garage had such an amazing floor that it healed the gash that was left after I accidentally dropped a transmission on it.

 

[mpire]

It sounds ugly parking 4 M coupes in a 25 by 30 building with a single door on the 30 side.

The plan is 30 feet deep. I can park 2 coupes nose to tail without issue. The door will be on the 25' side and that should get me 5 feet extra kick out for cabinets and a countertop on the right wall.

Idk about the wall, dirt is one consideration, but also cooling, since I don't need to cool the whole space if I'm only working in half of it. AC is expensive in Florida.

 

[mpire]

I have a 30x50. Half of that for a lift, a second car, and work space would be very tight. Unless you're storing one on the lift. What you see in this picture is about 30x30.

My last garage was pretty tight at 28x22 and I got 4 coupes in it, so a 30x30 feels ginormous to me. We're working with limited lot space, its only 100x550, but then there are lots of easements for the lake, the street, the ditch, and my total buildable space is disappearing fast. Granted half of it is under water, so its a lot smaller than it sounds.

I found out yesterday that I have to have a "stone detail" on the house facing the street, and I can't have the garage doors facing the street either.

 

[mpire]

I always suggest a couple of I-beams embedded and top surface at grade.

Just bury them in the concrete in the middle of the lift?

 

[Shadowdog500]

I have a 30”x 52” shop in my back yard. It’s probably 50’ from my back door. I have no problem going into the house to use the bathroom. If the shop is close to the house do you really want to take up the space for a bathroom, not to mention the water and sewage requirements.

Is there any way you can increase the shop side by 5’ and make it 30”x30”? I personally think 25’ depth gets a little tight to work on a car, especially when there are toolboxes or shelving on the back wall and you need to use an engine hoist.

What do you plan to store in the other half of the shop? Don’t build a space to store other peoples stuff!
I’ve had several friends who built workshopsin their backyard and it quickly wound up as long term storage for their kids furniture, or their friends car project that they never get around to working on. I was asked to store furniture and a long term car project within months of building my shop. Don’t let it even begin and just say no. Only build the storage side big enough to store your stuff.

 

[mpire]

High windows are nice if you care about natural light.

I am debating windows or not, might not be a bad idea to have windows high on the North wall to allow in some natural light.

 

[05snopro440]

I have a 30”x 52” shop in my back yard. It’s probably 50’ from my back door. I have no problem going into the house to use the bathroom. If the shop is close to the house do you really want to take up the space for a bathroom, not to mention the water and sewage requirements.

Is there any way you can increase the shop by 5’ and make it 30”x30”? I personally think 25’ depth gets a little tight to work on a car, especially when there are toolboxes or shelving on the back wall and you need to use an engine hoist.

What do you plan to store in the other half of the shop? Don’t build a space to store other peoples stuff!
I’ve had several friends who built workshopsin their backyard and it quickly wound up as long term storage for their kids furniture, or their friends car project that they never get around to working on. I was asked to store furniture and a long term car project within months of building my shop. Don’t let it even begin and just say no. Only build the storage side big enough to store your stuff.

When we bought our acreage last year, we had people asking us before we even got the place if they could store their car, motorhome, RV trailer, etc. We have a bunch of indoor storage. It's full of my own stuff.

 

[Forgottonia]

You might think about going with a gambrel roof shape (barn roof shape) so you can have a bit more storage over the rafters. Just a thought.

 

[mpire]

You might think about going with a gambrel roof shape (barn roof shape) so you can have a bit more storage over the rafters. Just a thought.

I was planning on going with the attic trusses so I would have walkable storage area above the garage for the mini-elevator to deliver stuff to. My crazy genius friend built a lift out of some C channel, bearings, and a winch. Works surprisingly well.

 

[kwb]

Just bury them in the concrete in the middle of the lift?

Tie them into the bar with weld studs and ties or to the mesh. Steel will need to be set on dobies for matching grade and allowing concrete underneath the beam.

 

[Kevin J.]

I buried two hitch receivers in the floor of my shop so I could place a post mounted vise in different areas. This has been useful and I wish I had put at least two more in place, I also mounted a Hossfeld type bender on a post that make occasional use easy.

 

[Ak Jim]

Are you sure you can fit two cars in 30’ of length? If you’re planning on this happening I’d go measure it. Google says they are each 15.8’ plus you’ll have the thickness of the wall and garage door.

 

[mpire]

Are you sure you can fit two cars in 30’ of length? If you’re planning on this happening I’d go measure it. Google says they are each 15.8’ plus you’ll have the thickness of the wall and garage door.

Yeah, I have a 10x30 that I am storing them in now. Its only 28.5 long according to my laser measure. The cars are 159 inches long, so it's snug, but they fit just fine. What is that? Roughly 26 feet for both of them plus a little extra.

What car are you measuring that's 15 feet long?

 

[TobeyA]

Yeah, I have a 10x30 that I am storing them in now. Its only 28.5 long according to my laser measure. The cars are 159 inches long, so it's snug, but they fit just fine. What is that? Roughly 26 feet for both of them plus a little extra.

What car are you measuring that's 15 feet long?

My cars, truck and SUV not included
2016 Mustang: 188"
2005 GTO: 190"
'98 BMW M3: 174"

 

[PelicanPines]

Best advice ... build it taller... bigger... with more outlets.