Stiletto

[Provincial]

I found this Stiletto ball pein hammer at a moving sale Friday. It seems to be older, but I don't know just how old. It's in good shape, and has clear markings.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Nice find
I’ve never owned a Stiletto but a carpenter friend of mine swears they are the best.

 

[gnpenning]

I have 2 Stiletto titanium framing hammers love them. Most people that try one love them as well,. That is until they see the price.

Great find. I would be happy with it.

 

[3baygarage]

Nice one. It looks old!

 

[RTM]

Stiletto was the house brand of Baker and Hamilton of SF, hardware distributor, back in 1930s. Marked them thru 1960s I think. Don’t have my notes at hand for exact dates.

 

[Provincial]

Nice one. It looks old!

Thanks! For $2.00, I couldn't let it get away!

 

[Provincial]

Stiletto was the house brand of Baker and Hamilton of SF, hardware distributor, back in 1930s. Marked them thru 1960s I think. Don’t have my notes at hand for exact dates.

Good info! Thanks for posting. If your notes tell you more, please share!

 

[d42jeep]

I find Stiletto tools around here with some regularity. I found a brace and bit countersink yesterday but didn’t get a good picture.
-Don

 

[RTM]

I find Stiletto tools around here with some regularity.
-Don

Shhhhhhhh, don't let the secret out

 

[Provincial]

Must be a Bay Area thing!

 

[four.cycle]

Stiletto was the house brand of Baker and Hamilton of SF, hardware distributor, back in 1930s. Marked them thru 1960s I think. Don’t have my notes at hand for exact dates.

Looks like they were "Pacific Hardware & Steel Co." before they were "Baker, Hamilton & Pacific Co." (?)

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

I have 2 Stiletto titanium framing hammers love them. Most people that try one love them as well,. That is until they see the price.

Great find. I would be happy with it.

I picked up one of those Stiletto framing hammers for a couple bucks at a swap meet a couple years ago. I never really understood the advantage of a titanium head on a hammer though. I like a bit more weight (steel) with less bulk in a framing hammer head which also allows for a shorter handle. Still an interesting idea though. Maybe I'm missing something. The nail starting notch is handy. Ed.

 

[RTM]

Looks like they were "Pacific Hardware & Steel Co." before they were "Baker, Hamilton & Pacific Co

There is more twisting and turning before that. Company started in 185x, and changed players many times.



I have it all in an excel file that isn’t accessible from my iPad.

 

[d42jeep]

Although I forgot to add my recently found large slotted screwdriver, I gathered the rest of the Stiletto tools for a picture.
-Don

 

[RTM]

Here is a quick summary of what I know of the Baker Hamilton Stiletto pre-history. I will start a new thread sometime soon with a bit more of the details (Hopefully do Woody73 proud). This is mostly assembled from the UC Riverside California Digital Newspaper Collection, Google Books, and other internet sources. This may be slightly out of order, as my notes aren't real clean yet.

Here is the twisted family tree, with several parallel paths combining over time. Every time I dig up a new branch, or root, it creates a whole ton of more digging to be done. This has been mostly untouched since 2013... And, as they keep adding more articles to the CDNC and Google Books, I get more sources.

Company started as
(Marcus C Hawley moved to SF in 1849)
Hawley Bros 1852
Hawley & Co 1867
Hawley Brothers Hardware incorporated 1882
LA: Hawley Kind & Co
San Diego: Hawley & Todd

Bought by Miller Sloss Scott 4/1/99

Sloss & Co started in 1856
Sloss Bros started 1894

Miller Sloss Scott started in 1891 as a mercantile. (Charles Miller president)

Huntington and Hopkins (Collis Huntington Treasurer, Mark Hopkins)
Unknown date EH Miller added to firm. Some of those names may be familiar in this article.
1868 Charles Miller added to firm
1871 SF Branch of Huntington Hopkins & Co formed

Huntington Hopkins Co incorporated (Feb 1888) Charles Miller onboard

1894 HHC sold to Miller Sloss Scott

1901 Firms of George Gibbs (no prehistory yet) and Miller Sloss Scott consolidated, to be know as Pacific Hardware and Steel

1908 Sloss Bros sold out to Pacific Company

Baker Hamilton (no prehistory) merged with Pacific Hardware and Steel, to be known as Baker-Hamilton Pacific Company

Eventually they dropped the Pacific.

 

[d42jeep]

I found a perfect handle Stiletto monkey wrench at a local sale yesterday. Here it is as found and cleaned up.
-Don

 

[four.cycle]

nice find, Don!

 

[d42jeep]

I found a Stiletto hammer at a garage sale this morning similar to one I posted upthread.
-Don

 

[Mintgrun]

Left to right, Bridgeport Matchless, <-Stiletto-> and Stanley Hurwood. I found the one in the middle today.

 

[toolmiser]

I never knew they made tools other than hammers, but it makes sense.

 

[Mintgrun]

I found this thread in the Sticky and chose to put the screwdriver in it, even though it doesn't match the thread's title. I'm just following Don's lead, having seen the screwdrivers he posted.

I'm guessing Bridgeport may have made the screwdriver for Stilletto, but the detail at the **** of the handle is different. Otherwise, they're almost identical. It was a pleasant surprise to see the brand name when I got home. I need to remember to put a magnifying glass in my pocket when I go out shopping.

I just noticed Similar threads suggesting this one.

Bridgeport-Stiletto Relationship?

In the latest round of tools I bought out of the bin at the Habitat Store, I found a stubby Phillips screwdriver that I thought was going to be easy. It is clearly marked Bridgeport on the blade. However...upon closer examination, I found the Stiletto logo stamped on the handle, very VERY...

www.garagejournal.com

I think I'll double post my screwdriver there.

As RTM mentions in the other thread, <-Stilletto-> did not make any tools. They put their name on other's productions.

 

[RTM]

I never knew they made tools other than hammers, but it makes sense.

Back in the day, they had a full line of tools, planes, chisels, saws, etc

I have a copy of this at home, and in 1935 and later, it was a fairly complete list. Will post a summary later this evening.

 

[d42jeep]

I found this Stiletto #3 Phillips screwdriver at a yard sale yesterday in Marin County. It was obviously sourced from Bridgeport. If the moderator could remove Hammer from the title of this thread it could become the sole Stiletto thread, rather then the several we currently are using.
-Don

 

[d42jeep]

Thanks to the moderators, this is now the official Stiletto thread!
-Don

 

[RTM]

Couple of Stiletto screwdrivers, by Bridgeport (License 7, plus the color of the handles) From a GS in the town north of me, so they didn't wander far from their home.
Larger is s 4" shank, 7-3/8" OAL, Stubby is 1-3/8" blade 3-1/8" OAL



Also scored a 20oz framer's Rip hammer head, but I don't think it's a vintage one, so we'll keep it away.

 

[fishyfool]

Stiletto Toolbox?
5 bucks at a yard sale

 

[four.cycle]

^ very nice.

Welcome to the site!

Keep this link handy

and this one

Baker / Baker & Hamilton, 601 Townsend St., San Francisco, CA / Baker Hamilton & Pacific (after 1918) / "Stiletto" tools /

 

[fishyfool]

Purchased in Stanislaus county, so not far from SF

 

[d42jeep]

I found this rusty Stiletto screwdriver at a Berkeley estate sale on Friday. It turned out to be the family home of one of my Wife’s classmates. Here are before and after pictures.

 

[RTM]

I found this rusty Stiletto screwdriver at a Berkeley estate sale on Friday. It turned out to be the family home of one of my Wife’s classmates. Here are before and after pictures.

Silly question, as I am always trying to determine who made Stiletto stuff. Do you think that looks very Bridgeport made?

 

[d42jeep]

For sure.
-Don

 

[AreBeeBee]

I picked up one of those Stiletto framing hammers for a couple bucks at a swap meet a couple years ago. I never really understood the advantage of a titanium head on a hammer though. I like a bit more weight (steel) with less bulk in a framing hammer head which also allows for a shorter handle. Still an interesting idea though. Maybe I'm missing something. The nail starting notch is handy. Ed.

Force (as in hammer-to-nail) goes up as the square of the velocity with which the hammer head hits the nail head. A titanium-head hammer can be swung at higher speed than a steel head, especially when the titanium head is combined with a longer handle, as in most framing hammers.

Shorter version w/o the physics: More POW for less effort.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

I've no doubt the physics works against my observations AreBeeBee. I doubt I'll have a reason to prove the theory for myself these days though. I've been shooting framing nails, when needed, with an air gun for many years now. I still drive a few nails on occasion, but not enough to notice a difference or care if there was. The newer cordless nailers seem to be really easy on the wrist and elbow if not the wallet. Ed.

 

[AreBeeBee]

I've no doubt the physics works against my observations AreBeeBee. I doubt I'll have a reason to prove the theory for myself these days though. I've been shooting framing nails, when needed, with an air gun for many years now. I still drive a few nails on occasion, but not enough to notice a difference or care if there was. The newer cordless nailers seem to be really easy on the wrist and elbow if not the wallet. Ed.

Me? I don't have one. Too damn $$$ — and I don't swing a hammer for a living anyway. (Retired from a different business.) If were in the trade, however, I might have one just to feel complete or something. Your solution clearly works just fine. But if anyone is going to swing one regular-like, know that the titanium jobs have physics on their side.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Equal mass heads on equal length handles should deliver roughly the same force to the nail head. The titanium head is said to absorb less energy than the steel head delivering it effectively to the nail head. Steel apparently absorbs more of the force generated reflecting it back to the user. From my research I haven't noticed the difference in the delivered energy when my thumb gets in the way.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

@AreBeeBee and @Oregon rock crusher
Boys, have I got the thread for you guys!
@Jacobs976 started it a few years ago when a typical GJ type debate on the Garage Sale thread, about the risk of being squashed by a steel plate (almost happened to @bmwrd0), threatened to sidetrack the thread. It's one of the more interesting threads on GJ, in my opinion, although I have not weighed in myself too much yet. First topic was the falling plate, which moved into torque and cheater bars. Second topic, which starts on page 1, post #38, and goes for several pages, is... you guessed it, titanium vs steel hammers! Let the Physics Begin!

Jacobs' Physics of Tools Debate Corner

This thread is for all of you who wish to argue about, debate, or otherwise discuss the physics of tools and other things whether it's the structural properties, forces acted upon, if a tree falls in the woods, etc.. This thread is a place to take these discussions to limit overcrowding other...

www.garagejournal.com

 

[AreBeeBee]

Looking forward to checking out (getting lost in?) that thread, Lugz.

However, F = mv^2. Or in English, force equals mass times velocity squared. In short, velocity is the dominating factor, not mass, because even small increases in velocity due to a faster hammer blow deliver more force to that nail.

So handle length being equal, the faster you can bring the hammer head down on a nail, the more force you'll be applying to that nail, and by a large amount. For example, increasing the striking speed by 40% doubles the force on the nail head.

This says absolutely nothing about user comfort, familiarity, number of hammer blows that must be delivered in a working day, or any other practical matter. These factors and others can make a huge difference what hammer a regular user choses to take to a job site.

My reply was solely as a matter of physics. Which of course leads us straight to —

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherical_cow

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

Found a Stiletto on Kijiji $65

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-hand-tool/saskatoon/framing-hammer/1679997676.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Looking forward to checking out (getting lost in?) that thread, Lugz.

Looking forward to reading your interpretation of the physics involved in swinging a titanium hammer vs a carbon steel hammer in the thread I just pointed out to you, explicitly started to debate things just like that in order to avoid such sidetracks on other threads, where, lo and behold, the physics involved in swinging a titanium hammer vs a carbon steel hammer is currently being debated!

 

[AreBeeBee]

Looking forward to reading your interpretation of the physics involved in swinging a titanium hammer vs a carbon steel hammer in the thread I just pointed out to you, explicitly started to debate things just like that in order to avoid such sidetracks on other threads, where, lo and behold, the physics involved in swinging a titanium hammer vs a carbon steel hammer is currently being debated!

Lugz, thank you! I see I erred in calling "force" what is really kinetic energy. But setting aside that error — for which I'll go stand in the corner and sand splintery wood by hand — I'm not incorrect regarding the energy delivered to the nail head.

And for lack of knowledge I ignored the metal properties of titanium vs. steel. If it's true that a titanium hammer head delivers more socko than a steel one, then that becomes an additional reason for using titanium.

Well, I did say that I don't earn a living with a hammer, so this is all academic in my case. But if I were a carpenter — why am I hearing a tune? — I'd likely pony up the price of a Stiletto hammer.