Suggestions needed on defunct building

[adtarr]

I bought this old building in a small mostly run down town which started life in 1949 as a Chrysler/Plymouth dealership. Over the years a lot of different businesses have moved in and out and then it just got dilapidated. The structure is very good and I did get the roof redone but there is no electrical, power, hvac, etc.. The building is mostly for storing my project cars and working on them off and on when I have time.

Everything needs redone with state inspections before any power or water can be turned on. The problem is that I can hardly find anyone to come work on it and if they do show up want a small fortune to fix it. I paid very little for the building and I am not that interested in dropping another 40k into getting the utilities back on.

The question I am looking for suggestions.....as a weekend warrior/shade tree mechanic....I am thinking of treating my shop like a job site with portable power. I need suggestions on what sort of job site setup I should be looking for. How big of a generator to run a 220 welder or air compressor? Gas or propane generator? Should I find a gas air compressor? Heat source for the winter that is efficient. etc etc

I really want to plan this out so I am not buying random equipment and have a good plan on making this a job site that is fairly permanent. Like an off-gird type of set up almost.

Some pics of the building....and it is a cool building I would to eventually fully restore. Thanks for any suggestions on making this a functioning work shop.

 

[mike93lx]

The manufacturer of your welder will probably give a generator size suggestion in the manual. The compressor one can be tough as electric motors can draw a lot of current when starting and it may be tough for a generator to keep up. Knowing what you want to use for a compressor would help, but if you can run battery tools instead, you may find this to be a lot simpler

Maybe a solar system and some batteries to cover lighting, tool charging, etc?

 

[Hank11]

I'd do a complete survey of what will be required for you to occupy the building before I did anything else. You may even be able to identify steps of renovation that you could take as a planned incremental project.

It might go like - start with basic power and water, (panel and meters) then go from there in steps. A permitted job that takes a couple of years to complete., if the city and county permit such. I might even call it something like saving the town's history.

 

[adtarr]

@mike93lx I do use a lot of battery run tools now. Just have to pack them back and forth. I am also exploring some solar options in order to leave the battery chargers behind and have limite solar power when I am not there.

@Hank11 I have explored several restoration options with the city and state. There are programs but require the money to be used towards opening or starting a business. Long term I will eventually get it back on the grid and fully functional but in the short term would like to make it more functional without packing everything back and forth and also being able to run the welder and so on.

 

[Copymutt]

Inclined to explore a decent RV for all your human needs: can, shower, cooking, etc. Then check out a Generac or generator welder for shop tools.

Powering your home, your business, your world.

website

www.generac.com

Whichever route you choose will be major bucks saved unless your intent is the resale value of the building.

 

[inphx]

What part of the country are you in? Solar parts for off grid batteries and inverter are reasonable from Signature Solar in Sulphur Springs, TX if you can skip the shipping.

 

[adtarr]

@Copymutt The RV or camper idea is definitely being explored. I am roughly 3 hours from the building so I go for the weekend to work on stuff. Also looking at building a bunk room and putting in a wood burning cook stove.

@inphx Its in the middle of Nebraska. My big concern is hail with solar panels outside. I am exploring if I can put solar panels behind all those west facing windows.

 

[mike93lx]

@inphx Its in the middle of Nebraska. My big concern is hail with solar panels outside. I am exploring if I can put solar panels behind all those west facing windows

Probably not if you want useful power generation

 

[Old tool guy]

Put the solar panels on the roof.
Nice building, looks like a small town, probably mot much market for the space.

 

[stingry]

I’ve seen that building as I have driven thru your town. What a great building for a car guy!!! I live in Morrill, just west of you. I would think the town would be happy to have a run down property be cleaned up. Could you get temporary power as you work on it? Good luck, what a great property!

 

[jack stand]

There's no "grandfathering" for this personal use? I'd push that aspect as long as there's no structural issue. Was this building ever condemned? I could possibly understand requiring a "open to the public" type of use requiring code updates, but explaining your personal use and purpose....

 

[adtarr]

@jack stand it was never condemned and passed environmental survey inspection. The city really wants a functioning business in it although half the buildings in town are empty. The end goal is to restore but could be years away.....I would like to get some near term solutions to get some work done in it. Power is the biggest problem...even to work on the building itself.

 

[adtarr]

@stingry been to Morrill many times.....lots of old cool buildings in that town as well. Its also not quite as defunct.

 

[nadogail]

For my purposes I have found my 13 horse Chonda Engine and a 10 KW alternator provided more than enough electricity for my Stick Welding and my compressor and saws.

Harbor Freight sold me both the engine and alternator about 20 years ago. I used a Lovejoy coupling to connect the engine to the alternator.

Obviously I don’t run everything at once.

My 12 volt needs are taken care of by a 5 horse Honda engine and a 100 Amp alternator.

 

[WillyBoy]

Definitely a neat looking building. I'll be watching this one.

 

[jack stand]

@jack stand it was never condemned and passed environmental survey inspection. The city really wants a functioning business in it although half the buildings in town are empty. The end goal is to restore but could be years away.....I would like to get some near term solutions to get some work done in it. Power is the biggest problem...even to work on the building itself.

What exactly is the problem getting the power company to just energize the building?
You said that it has had several recent businesses in there that must have had power to operate.

 

[adtarr]

What exactly is the problem getting the power company to just energize the building?
You said that it has had several recent businesses in there that must have had power to operate.

I don't know the last time a functioning business was in it. Mostly abandoned for at least 10 years. The power company came out and told me they wont even attempt to turn it on until all new power is brought from the pole to the building, and all new panels were installed, etc. All must be state certified.

 

[dcg9381]

@inphx Its in the middle of Nebraska. My big concern is hail with solar panels outside. I am exploring if I can put solar panels behind all those west facing windows.

Might want to double check that. We get major hail in TX. I've been installing panels for 20 years, I've never had hail crack one.. It's possible, but they are a lot tougher than cars!

The inverters and batteries add up, and you're basically installing a full power system (just not grid tie). Generators are cheaper by far... At least for a long time.

 

[gleman]

If you are going to permanently occupy the space, get it up to code and get the utilities back on.

An off-grid setup to support a larger welder and compressor is a major chunk of change that could be used for other upgrades and maintenance.

A bobcat or ranger and a gas compressor would be my temporary fix.

 

[mepstein]

Getting a building up to code and utilities turned on may cost thousands or hundreds of thousands. It’s nothing like residential construction. I would however get some estimates so you know what you’re dealing with.

 

[adtarr]

@dcg9381 I am just learning that hail wont be a problem as I continue to look into solar. A small solar setup may be what I need to have power readily available when I there working. Would also like something steady to keep exterior motion lights and some security cameras running.

@gleman @mepstein getting everything working again is the plan.....it will just take a couple years and a LOT of money but I am looking for short term solutions to use the space and work on my projects. As an example on getting work done.....I have yet to find a plumber who will go look and bid me a cost to get the water turned back on. But I also need electric to get the HVAC running to keep the building warm enough so the pipes wont freeze and bust again.

 

[nadogail]

A used small engine, an alternator, some 12 Volt batteries and an inverter along with pulleys, belt and plywood will give you 120 Volts for lighting.

Look at WWW. Epicenter.com with a little imagination and scrounging you can have 80+ Amps of 12 Volt DC, a Harbor Freight inverter will light a bunch of LED Lamps and charge batteries.

I was given a 5 Horse Honda Engine and my 100 Amp rated 10SI Alternator was $100 from Amazon, belts and pulleys are Hardware Store items. A 12” wide plank will mount everything. My battery cables came from Wally World.

EPICENTER also will show you how to connect the Alternator, the battery was removed from my van.

 

[rancherbill]

Nice building in a dead town. I looked on google maps and it's a nice clean town. There a ton of them here that have lots of vacant buildings.

My only though is to get some elected person to go to bat for you with the electric company.

With the town tell them you are going to stop paying taxes because you can't use the place and they can seize to auction for the taxes.

Phone up the local newspaper and thell them your story with the town, electric company and anybody else that is in your way.

 

[35Ford]

I just looked at a building similar to this today to restore power etc. for potential tenant use. The building owner had a lot of ideas but no plan. You need a plan.
Would the local utility allow a temporary service for "construction" needs?

 

[gleman]

@dcg9381 I am just learning that hail wont be a problem as I continue to look into solar. A small solar setup may be what I need to have power readily available when I there working. Would also like something steady to keep exterior motion lights and some security cameras running.

@gleman @mepstein getting everything working again is the plan.....it will just take a couple years and a LOT of money but I am looking for short term solutions to use the space and work on my projects. As an example on getting work done.....I have yet to find a plumber who will go look and bid me a cost to get the water turned back on. But I also need electric to get the HVAC running to keep the building warm enough so the pipes wont freeze and bust again.

As for electric, I'd repair the main panel if it was damaged, make the minimum outlet branch and minimum lights.

In my county it's one light circuit and one GFCI outlet and one light on the building exterior.

I guess you'd need to check the HVAC circuit as well.

In the counties I live in anyone can repair their building, the power company may require an AHJ(county)inspection to reconnect.

When I ran electrical to my barn, the PoCo and county were really helpful and gave me great advice for doing it myself.

Have you talked to either of them?

Tell them what your trying to accomplish and I'm sure they will help.

As for plumbing checks without water, I'd start visually inspecting the supply side starting from the meter and maybe run some air listening for leaks. Then I'd figure out the sewage after that.


I think there is a lot you can do yourself that will get you going.

 

[gleman]

Nice building in a dead town. I looked on google maps and it's a nice clean town. There a ton of them here that have lots of vacant buildings.

My only though is to get some elected person to go to bat for you with the electric company.

With the town tell them you are going to stop paying taxes because you can't use the place and they can seize to auction for the taxes.

Phone up the local newspaper and thell them your story with the town, electric company and anybody else that is in your way.

That is a great way to never get anything done and make enemies of half the town.

 

[Wrench97]

I looked at a similar building here a few years back, pretty much the roof repair, wiring and plumbing was going to cost more then the building and property .......................then all said and done the the resale would be lower then the outlay.

 

[adtarr]

I looked at a similar building here a few years back, pretty much the roof repair, wiring and plumbing was going to cost more then the building and property .......................then all said and done the the resale would be lower then the outlay.

I am close to that same situation financially with this. In the end it's a nice dry storage for my cars and parts. Just trying to get some ideas on how to make it more functional as a workshop without utilities for now.

 

[Just_Steve]

@dcg9381 I am just learning that hail wont be a problem as I continue to look into solar. A small solar setup may be what I need to have power readily available when I there working. Would also like something steady to keep exterior motion lights and some security cameras running.

I don't think solar is going to work out well for your purpose, below is a public view of my solar system and will give you a real world idea of what a decent size system does and it's limitations. My system is 16,400 watts = 41 x 400 watt panels. if you click through the monthly tab you can see days I don't get enough power to turn a light bulb. JMHO.

Enphase

Enphase Energy

enlighten.enphaseenergy.com

 

[Hank11]

I don’t see any way to get this through a Nebraska winter without electricity — if you have water in the building. Can you partition some portion of the building and rehab only that part? I’ve seen that more than once. Call the unserved portion warehouse and the rest is your office or shop.

There are obvious things needed and I’m pretty sure any thing else is throwing money away.

 

[manac]

Just start with a small panel 2-400 amps. As Hank said carve out a small shop, the rest storage.

 

[finn]

I suspect that the issue is that it’s a commercial building, which has different rules than a owner owner occupied building.

A friend of mine bailed on a somewhat related project because, even as a licensed general contractor, he wasn’t able to rehab a fire damaged building without hiring licensed plumbing, heating, and electrical contractors. He could do the carpentry, but that’s it. It may have been complicated by the fact it was an apartment building, though.

As it was, the project didn’t pencil out.

From my own experience, a licensed electrician had to be present for the power company to reconnect a main panel we relocated. I did all the work. Paid $60 for him to watch.

 

[adtarr]

I don’t see any way to get this through a Nebraska winter without electricity — if you have water in the building. Can you partition some portion of the building and rehab only that part? I’ve seen that more than once. Call the unserved portion warehouse and the rest is your office or shop.

There are obvious things needed and I’m pretty sure any thing else is throwing money away.

There is a portion that used to be a paint booth and wash bay which someone combined. Probably about 24x24.....could be a good place for something like that.

 

[PoorUB]

No advice, but you are finding out why it was so cheap it buy. Commercial building that needs to be brought up to spec. A very expensive proposition!

 

[rancherbill]

That is a great way to never get anything done and make enemies of half the town.

NOTHING is getting done now. He bought it with the expectation of being able to use it.

I am sure the OP has been real nice. Progress has not been made.

All the good old boys at the local coffee shop are laughing about the outsider that got a hole lot of nothing. They want to make the outsider spend lots of money in town so he can use it and we'll all have a little employment.

 

[Jblount3]

Bobcat™ 225 with Remote Start/Stop Engine-Driven Welder | MillerWelds

Cost-effective, multiprocess welder/generator primarily used for Stick welding and generator power. Great for farm, ranch, maintenance/repair operations and as a stand-alone generator.

www.millerwelds.com

I would look at something like this and Mabe a smaller Honda inverter for chargers and electronics. The building looks like it will be cool, I like the old buildings they don’t make new ones with the style and looks of the vintage stuff

 

[loganb]

Howdy from the far east part of the state.

Fun project! if you can keep your electric requirements to 120v, the smaller inverter generators would serve you well for weekend warrior type stuff. I have this in blue from Northern Tool:

3500 Watt SUPER QUIET Inverter Generator with CO SECURE Technology

Amazing deals on this 3500W Super Quiet Inverter Generator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

It's around 1/3rd the price of the Honda version, is portable and you can link 2 together if you need more amps. Biggest downside is its 120 only....but damn is it quiet thanks to the inverter and sips the fuel. they make 240v versions...just more money and less portable(heavier)

You can setup your electric panel and feed it with the genny if desired if you want some permanent outlets installed

A used standby generator can also be picked up affordably ....but definitely louder them a new inverter style

 

[adtarr]

Definitely one of my considerations. Looking at generators I can feed to a panel and wire up some permanent outlets and lights.

 

[engineer2]

Any chance of setting it up as a museum of some sort?
I know a guy who did that in a dying town and the city helped him a lot.
It helped bring visitors to town.

 

[Wombat Ranger]

I would suggest that EVERYONE needs a portable/generator welder, right??? Look for one like a Miller Legend that runs at 1800rpm and it will use a LOT less fuel than, say, a bobcat. I have a bobcat, it was cheap, it does what I need it to, but it screams it's head off at 3750rpm and is fairly thirsty. No complaints for the $440 I paid for it, but I do keep my eyes open for something else.

I have the same Northern Tool Generator mentioned above. It works good. I use it to charge batteries in my garage power system right now, it has served our house when needed too. I live full time on solar/off-grid. We don't mind it, but it will not likely be a cost saving move for you, it would be an entirely dead end investment in your case. That begin said, fully off-grid right smack dab in the middle of town is becoming more common these days. Power service ain't cheap. We are on solar because bringing power in would likely cost us $50 g's.