HOTFR8
Banned
How do you propose to get large items upstairs?
Above 1200 Sq/FT T.h.e...e…x….p…..a……n…….s……..i………o……….n
- Thread starter MAYOR28
- Start date
Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.
HOTFR8
Banned
If you noticed, right now the spiral staircase does does not really go anywhere......it finished 42" shy of the second floor. This was actually due to a screw-up that worked in our favor.
The residential building code allows for 9" riser height on spiral stairs, however normal stairs are only allowed 8.25" rise. When set to 8.25" riser height, we ended up short by 42", but this allows us to make up the distance with a short straight stair and still position the spiral further into the corner. If just the spiral went all the way to the second floor, there wouldn't be enough headroom at the top step, so we would have to slide the stair case closer to the window.
The short stair section allows for the spiral to stay in the corner while keeping the necessary headroom off the top step.
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The residential building code allows for 9" riser height on spiral stairs, however normal stairs are only allowed 8.25" rise. When set to 8.25" riser height, we ended up short by 42", but this allows us to make up the distance with a short straight stair and still position the spiral further into the corner. If just the spiral went all the way to the second floor, there wouldn't be enough headroom at the top step, so we would have to slide the stair case closer to the window.
The short stair section allows for the spiral to stay in the corner while keeping the necessary headroom off the top step.
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HOTFR8
Banned
Now that is interesting with the stair case.
We had discovered some issues with the staircase our builder had erected. I believe the staircase is very dimensional dependent, which was not adhered to well. In the end, the bottom step was nearly 1" shorter than the others. Our immediate idea was to shim the entire stair up, easy, bit more room for failure.....
So, the Wife and I took care of some of the stair problems (while it was sub 20 degrees out)..... We basically disassembled the entire staircase, one tread at a time. The rebuilt it, with the proper tread spacing.
Attachment of the straight section to the wall and the top spiral platform:
These GRK structural screws are absolute Units:
ROCK SOLID!
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So, the Wife and I took care of some of the stair problems (while it was sub 20 degrees out)..... We basically disassembled the entire staircase, one tread at a time. The rebuilt it, with the proper tread spacing.
Attachment of the straight section to the wall and the top spiral platform:
These GRK structural screws are absolute Units:
ROCK SOLID!
...
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mwbailey
Well-known member
Interesting problem and solution with the staircase! It seems that bathrooms and staircases are the most difficult parts of houses and workshops to deal with. Seems sometimes the best thing to do is put these "pieces" into your floor plan and design everything else around them. Good luck.
yes, very good idea. I don't know that it's "code", but good to do. will keep the upstairs nice and cozy, while also not allowing the heat in the garage from being taken by the upstairs.
it will also give you an extra barrier to keep the fumes and whatnot from the garage from getting to the upstairs.
don't know that I would bother with getting quotes for insulation. could probably knock yours out in a weekend by buying it straight from Lowes, where you also get bulk discounts
you know me, i'm down!!! so long as it isn't a weekend I have the boy, i'm in
however, you should probably accomplish electrical before you insulate
Yeah, truth. I need to get it all wrapped up, signed off, then I can pull another permit to do the additional electrical work. Hopefully we will be up and running by.........March/April/May?
I don't know when.....I think my contractor believes the government shutdown includes him......
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haha...well, keep me posted and I am always willing to lend a hand, especially since I have done have this junk to my house and garage within the past few years
Finallygotit
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I am in total agreement with that-guy, I don't think that is a code thing either.
Anyway, if it were me and you want to keep either floor somewhat temperature controlled, I would insulate it. but you would still have to do something about the opening at the top of the stairs to keep cold from coming down or heat going up. YMMV
Are you totally insulating the upstairs?
Anyway, if it were me and you want to keep either floor somewhat temperature controlled, I would insulate it. but you would still have to do something about the opening at the top of the stairs to keep cold from coming down or heat going up. YMMV
Are you totally insulating the upstairs?
Yeah, upstairs will be completely insulated. It will have it's own dedicated mini-split (or at least it's own blower unit).
It would probably help in the summer, in case I want to have the lower doors open....
I do need to figure something out for the top of the stairs. I don't think I want it entirely walled in, but maybe I do......
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Things have really slowed down on the build, or at least that is the way it seems. The Maryland weather has been in full force over the last month or so. We have had 60 degree days followed by snow more than once. But here is where we are today:
I made a few other acquisitions in the last couple weeks too.
I have wanted a forklift for some time. It is an irrational want, or at least that is what the wife says. I had my eye on a few, but the sellers wouldn't cooperate (either never messaged me back, or didn't know anything about their machines). So I have given up on that dream for now, or at least I will not have one for finishing the shop out.
BUT, I did invest in a pallet jack (miniature forklift, maybe?). I have been eyeing these on the FB Marketplace for some time. This seller was hard to get a hold of as well.
Add said it didn't work, paid $35. Just needed fluid and a good bleeding.
Band saw from the FB Marketplace, turns out I knew the guy, gave it to me for a case of beer.
(it is broken, but I found a part for $21 shipped!)
Free door for the compressor room, found it in the Lumber Yard dumpster.
I made a few other acquisitions in the last couple weeks too.
I have wanted a forklift for some time. It is an irrational want, or at least that is what the wife says. I had my eye on a few, but the sellers wouldn't cooperate (either never messaged me back, or didn't know anything about their machines). So I have given up on that dream for now, or at least I will not have one for finishing the shop out.
BUT, I did invest in a pallet jack (miniature forklift, maybe?). I have been eyeing these on the FB Marketplace for some time. This seller was hard to get a hold of as well.
Add said it didn't work, paid $35. Just needed fluid and a good bleeding.
Band saw from the FB Marketplace, turns out I knew the guy, gave it to me for a case of beer.
(it is broken, but I found a part for $21 shipped!)
Free door for the compressor room, found it in the Lumber Yard dumpster.
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you and me both. my whole property is just all soggy...going to **** if we don't get alot of dry days come time to start mowing again
For some more finishing bits for the interior. That is a 3 zone Daikin mini split for downstairs and upstairs. Had a friend spec it out for me. I am really looking forward to having a controlled temp in the shop.
Underneath, is some nice 1/2" AC plywood for the upstairs walls. More pics on that later.
I really do love having a pallet jack around. It's already so useful.
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Underneath, is some nice 1/2" AC plywood for the upstairs walls. More pics on that later.
I really do love having a pallet jack around. It's already so useful.
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Pressingonward
Well-known member
Nice build! Thanks for bringing us along for the ride.
Wish I could answer a few of the questions you've had, but unfortunately I have no clue what the answers are
I like your spiral staircase solution with the mini set of stairs at the top
My vote (for what it's worth) would be to fully close off the upstairs with a door of some kind. This will keep bad smells (car exhaust), sawdust, metal dust, or whatever else you happen to generate downstairs from migrating upstairs and making a mess
Wish I could answer a few of the questions you've had, but unfortunately I have no clue what the answers are
I like your spiral staircase solution with the mini set of stairs at the top
My vote (for what it's worth) would be to fully close off the upstairs with a door of some kind. This will keep bad smells (car exhaust), sawdust, metal dust, or whatever else you happen to generate downstairs from migrating upstairs and making a mess
Thanks!Nice build! Thanks for bringing us along for the ride.
Wish I could answer a few of the questions you've had, but unfortunately I have no clue what the answers are
I like your spiral staircase solution with the mini set of stairs at the top [emoji106]
My vote (for what it's worth) would be to fully close off the upstairs with a door of some kind. This will keep bad smells (car exhaust), sawdust, metal dust, or whatever else you happen to generate downstairs from migrating upstairs and making a mess
I am considering closing off the upstairs, but for now we will use a curtain. I'm thinking the wife may not like the garage smells up there....
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Hoping to have final inspection tomorrow!!!!
I have gotten a few more things for inside of the shop as well. I picked up a Hobart 187, with tank, cart, consumables, and helmet for $400. And an engine hoist & HF shop press for $100. FB Marketplace is addicting!
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I have gotten a few more things for inside of the shop as well. I picked up a Hobart 187, with tank, cart, consumables, and helmet for $400. And an engine hoist & HF shop press for $100. FB Marketplace is addicting!
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I also pulled the trigger on the flooring for the shop. I decided to go with Legacy Industrial's Polyurea Nohr-S in clear, and some Delta Dye in Olive. Was planning on doing the floor this weekend, but the weather doesn't look like it is going to cooperate, so........maybe in a few weeks.
Okay, I have dilemma. How to insulate around the second floor?
Minisplit system will have 3 inside blowers, 2 downstairs, 1 upstairs. I would like to use some of the 'eave' areas outside of the upper room for storage. So keeping those not blistering hot/cold would be a bonus.
In pic below,
1. Should the BLUE be insulated?
2. Should the insulation just follow the roof sheathing, or the GREEN & ORANGE?
3. Should the ORANGE just be typical R19/R21 wall insulation?
4. Fiberglass batting or blown in?
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Minisplit system will have 3 inside blowers, 2 downstairs, 1 upstairs. I would like to use some of the 'eave' areas outside of the upper room for storage. So keeping those not blistering hot/cold would be a bonus.
In pic below,
1. Should the BLUE be insulated?
2. Should the insulation just follow the roof sheathing, or the GREEN & ORANGE?
3. Should the ORANGE just be typical R19/R21 wall insulation?
4. Fiberglass batting or blown in?
..
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Rocketman69
Member
To expand on this reply: I would take the green the full length of the trusses. This will keep the storage space between the trusses and the walls of the upstairs room from freezing cold or blistering heat, even without HVAC feeding them treated air. I would also do the orange areas....
Yep. Reason being: Let's say it's the dead of summer. It's been a week of 85+ temps. Your HVAC and insulation have been doing a great job keeping the garage space and upstairs nice and comfortable. I'm assuming you'll have two separate thermostats (or 3 if your unit has 3 zones). You need to open up the one of the overheads to move some stuff in and out... No sense in the upstairs getting uncomfortable just because the doors were opened downstairs, right? The insulation will keep the two areas more or less separated as far as temperature is concerned. Yeah, the downstairs being conditioned will make much less work for the unit to take care of the upstairs, but the insulation will keep things from having to work that much harder.
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Deezler
Well-known member
I have this same dilemma with installing insulation in my own attic trusses this year.
I will be insulating everything. But budget is super tight, so professional spray foam is out of the question.
Unfortunately my top chord (green) is just a 2x8, so only 7.25" of depth to work with for insulating. On top of that, my ridge is fully vented, so I need to preserve an air space. What I plan to do is leave 1" of air, then cut sections of tight-fitting 1" rigid poly-iso (foil backed), and then jam in R21 batts with the remaining ~5".
My attic room side knee walls are 2x4s, as yours probably are. Plan to R13 these.
For the lower side storage areas, I'm not totally sure yet/. but I might slot in some more framing under the top chords so that I can just staple up the big fluffy R38 batts without them being tight against the roof deck (again, need continuous air flow from the soffits if you have a ridge vent).
Not sure about the attic floors yet. Like you I plan to condition the lower space, at least in the winter time (have PEX in my slab for heating). So if some heat flows up into the attic room, big deal? The insane mass of the concrete slab also does a good job at preventing the whole building from ever getting too hot in a Michigan summer, but I might run a mini-split downstairs as well, to hold 80°F and control humidity in the summer time. In this scenario, why have insulation between downstairs and upstairs? Same temp setting, basically. If I have leftover R13 or poly iso sheets, why not put them under the floor I guess. But not worth spending another thousand bucks on, IMO.
I will be insulating everything. But budget is super tight, so professional spray foam is out of the question.
Unfortunately my top chord (green) is just a 2x8, so only 7.25" of depth to work with for insulating. On top of that, my ridge is fully vented, so I need to preserve an air space. What I plan to do is leave 1" of air, then cut sections of tight-fitting 1" rigid poly-iso (foil backed), and then jam in R21 batts with the remaining ~5".
My attic room side knee walls are 2x4s, as yours probably are. Plan to R13 these.
For the lower side storage areas, I'm not totally sure yet/. but I might slot in some more framing under the top chords so that I can just staple up the big fluffy R38 batts without them being tight against the roof deck (again, need continuous air flow from the soffits if you have a ridge vent).
Not sure about the attic floors yet. Like you I plan to condition the lower space, at least in the winter time (have PEX in my slab for heating). So if some heat flows up into the attic room, big deal? The insane mass of the concrete slab also does a good job at preventing the whole building from ever getting too hot in a Michigan summer, but I might run a mini-split downstairs as well, to hold 80°F and control humidity in the summer time. In this scenario, why have insulation between downstairs and upstairs? Same temp setting, basically. If I have leftover R13 or poly iso sheets, why not put them under the floor I guess. But not worth spending another thousand bucks on, IMO.
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I would insulate the whole attic floor. If money is an issue, insulate under the attic flooring first and add it to the open side bays later. In the summer most of the heat transfer into the attic is radiant and it will heat that space quite well. You could probably just put up the foil bubble wrap stuff to cut down on the radiant transfer. If you have one of those IR thermometers from Harbor Freight, you can see the difference pretty dramatically. Insulated ceiling on an 85-degree day will be close to 85-degrees but the un-insulated can be over 100-degrees. The load on your spit unit goes up dramatically in those conditions. I'm no expert, just a hack who tries different stuff until I get something to work. A 12,000 btu window unit keeps my 700 square foot garage at 78-degrees all summer long without breaking the bank (less than $250 a month for all-electric 2,600 square foot house in South Florida).
jask
Well-known member
I have not checked in for a while so I just reread the whole thread over lunch 
damn nice build! A couple thoughts... your home built scaffold- that deck is being supported by the fasteners that secure it to the posts, and I dont see any lag bolts or ?? - with one or two guys and tools and materials up there, it is going to be a LOT safer if you add "jack studs" to each of those corner posts under that deck to carry the load down to the base... or at least use some overpriced Simpson metallic connection
I was looking at that pony wall at the top of the stairs and thinking that with a door at the top of the stairs I would do a simple frame to match whatever you trim the room with and use glass or acrylic to close in from the top of the pony wall to the ceiling.
damn nice build! A couple thoughts... your home built scaffold- that deck is being supported by the fasteners that secure it to the posts, and I dont see any lag bolts or ?? - with one or two guys and tools and materials up there, it is going to be a LOT safer if you add "jack studs" to each of those corner posts under that deck to carry the load down to the base... or at least use some overpriced Simpson metallic connection I was looking at that pony wall at the top of the stairs and thinking that with a door at the top of the stairs I would do a simple frame to match whatever you trim the room with and use glass or acrylic to close in from the top of the pony wall to the ceiling.
I have not checked in for a while so I just reread the whole thread over lunch
I was looking at that pony wall at the top of the stairs and thinking that with a door at the top of the stairs I would do a simple frame to match whatever you trim the room with and use glass or acrylic to close in from the top of the pony wall to the ceiling.
Thanks Jask!
I have added carriage bolts through the legs of the scaffold. Not sure if the picture you saw had those in there or not. They were added a couple days after the build since I couldn't find any laying around when I built it......but that being said, jack studs or something else may be a good addition.
I am getting more and more convinced that the upstairs should be walled off completely. I may keep an eye out for 1/2 of a french door on the used markets..
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