T Williams Superslim
- Thread starter Farmer J.
- Start date
Progress pics. Got most of these now, may need a bigger board though but hoping to fit them all in!
Whitworth/British Standard Fine.
Metric.
AF including the American /32" sizes.
Contract/specials stamped for Ford and Colchester Lathe.
Cranked 3/8" BSF for Land Rover series one, prop. shaft retaining nuts.
Some short versions and a '2BA x 4BA' little one are on the way to add to the collection..
Whitworth/British Standard Fine.
Metric.
AF including the American /32" sizes.
Contract/specials stamped for Ford and Colchester Lathe.
Cranked 3/8" BSF for Land Rover series one, prop. shaft retaining nuts.
Some short versions and a '2BA x 4BA' little one are on the way to add to the collection..
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Got the spanners all cleaned up now and coated with boiled linseed oil, (yes, I did dispose of the rag carefully) and considering layout on the board and if to use the advert on the main board or in a separate one with sets in different finishes as advertised. May put the pliers on the board, or maybe get another TW logo for that one..
It weighs about 40lb, so made a big plywood French Cleat type of hanger on the back of the board for it.
It weighs about 40lb, so made a big plywood French Cleat type of hanger on the back of the board for it.
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I keep finding more odd wrenches to add to this board, and now up to 66 double open end all different but of the same design, not counting alternative finishes on the same model of wrench!There is Whitworth/BSF , AF Inches and AF mm, also contract ones.
These latest 2 have sizes marked in decimal inches instead of fractions of an inch. Are these for use by machinists or something like that?
One is 1/2" AF at one end, and 399 AF at the other, which is also slimmer at that end maybe made like that or maybe ground down to fit something special.
The other is 50 AF at one end and 56 AF at the other..
I have occasionally seen wrenches marked this way, does anyone know why?
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50 and 56 makes for a useful pairing before metrics came along being 1/2AF and 1/4 WW.
I recall most motorcar manufacturers going to unified threads with AF nut and bolt heads on their engines and transmissions but Joseph Lucas spoiled the party.
In the Britool wrench numbering a similar system is used.
You sure have a substantial collection, what known gaps elude you?
Thanks for that info humber2.
I will have a look at my Britool stuff and check the numbers.. Also my list of the few I am still searching for.
It may take a few days, quite busy on the farm just now I have short breaks between loading grain to go on a boat and better not get all the spanners out then have to rush off!
I will have a look at my Britool stuff and check the numbers.. Also my list of the few I am still searching for.
It may take a few days, quite busy on the farm just now I have short breaks between loading grain to go on a boat and better not get all the spanners out then have to rush off!
I checked my Britool hex drive sockets and they do use a similar numbering system.
The ones I am still looking for, to complete the 1965 catalogue list for standard length wrenches are:
1 1/8" x 1 1/2" AF
3/4" x 13/16" AF
11mm x 14mm
19mm x 22mm
22mm x 27mm
These seem to be very unusual sizes, and a dealer here says he has never seen them so probably very few were made despite being in the catalogue.
Although that's what they said about the 1 x 1 1/8 WW and the 14 x 17mm and they both turned up eventually to join my collection
The ones I am still looking for, to complete the 1965 catalogue list for standard length wrenches are:
1 1/8" x 1 1/2" AF
3/4" x 13/16" AF
11mm x 14mm
19mm x 22mm
22mm x 27mm
These seem to be very unusual sizes, and a dealer here says he has never seen them so probably very few were made despite being in the catalogue.
Although that's what they said about the 1 x 1 1/8 WW and the 14 x 17mm and they both turned up eventually to join my collection
Hey Farmer J,
Nice job putting together that set of wrenches! Well done! I bought a few Whitworth Superslims to work on my 1955 MG TF 1500 last winter. While they’re not as slim as one might think based on their name, they helped with getting the job done. Once again, great collection.
Jim C.
Nice job putting together that set of wrenches! Well done! I bought a few Whitworth Superslims to work on my 1955 MG TF 1500 last winter. While they’re not as slim as one might think based on their name, they helped with getting the job done. Once again, great collection.
Jim C.
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Thanks.
That's a nice original set of wrenches you have Jim. They match the advertisement for them right at the beginning of this thread. A few years ago it was easy to find full sets like that for sale but they are getting more rare and expensive lately.
Like you, I always thought "these things are not very 'slim'.." They go well with your MG, and would very likely be in or an addition to a tool kit of that era. That is an exceptionally smart MG car, what fun it must be!
I checked my Britool hex drive sockets and they do use a similar numbering system.
The ones I am still looking for, to complete the 1965 catalogue list for standard length wrenches are:
1 1/8" x 1 1/2" AF
3/4" x 13/16" AF
11mm x 14mm
19mm x 22mm
22mm x 27mm
These seem to be very unusual sizes, and a dealer here says he has never seen them so probably very few were made despite being in the catalogue.
Although that's what they said about the 1 x 1 1/8 WW and the 14 x 17mm and they both turned up eventually to join my collection
I have checked my stash but no examples therein.
The 1st AF you seek has to be a special but all the metrics you list conform to ISO steps for sizes.
I recently obtained a clipped set in WW missing the smallest which I had to quickly add. I hadn't seen that before.
Now that I look further than WW, metrics are starting to be found here but the majority downunder are WW
A decade ago I turned down the offering of a full set of AF in a green canvas roll but I'm not one who wrenches with open jaw whenever a ring end will fit so that offer passed.
You note Colchester and Ford (Enfo) examples, I'll have to find you a Masport example made for the NZ Company that made lawn mowers and small rotary hoe machines.
Happy Thanksgiving Day to all those in USA. We're going to mark the occasion tomorrow, with a roast dinner cooked on an American Weber barberque.
Meanwhile, here's an update of the 'old spanner collection'. After adding the contract made Ford and EnFo ones, the decimal inch sized, and some short series I am now up to 72 examples all of the same pattern of wrench. Not much room left on the board now!
Meanwhile, here's an update of the 'old spanner collection'. After adding the contract made Ford and EnFo ones, the decimal inch sized, and some short series I am now up to 72 examples all of the same pattern of wrench. Not much room left on the board now!
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Tostal
Well-known member
Well done.
If you find any more,
, you might have to consider adding on East Wing and West Wing extensions to your display board Tostal.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I'm impressed!
I just found a T. Williams-made "[Jaguar]" wrench last week. It was in sorrowful condition. I'll snap a photo when I get a chance.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
J., Peter,
Here's the aforementioned "[JAGUAR]" wrench. Any idea when it was made?
Compared to the SUPERSLIM, what with the panel and the black finish and the Whitworth and BSF hardware sizes turned sideways on the shank, it's a rather plain jane.
Both wrenches are unfortunately afflicted with box rot stains and some pitting.
Here's the aforementioned "[JAGUAR]" wrench. Any idea when it was made?
Compared to the SUPERSLIM, what with the panel and the black finish and the Whitworth and BSF hardware sizes turned sideways on the shank, it's a rather plain jane.
Both wrenches are unfortunately afflicted with box rot stains and some pitting.
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Lugz,
To the best of my knowledge, which isn't great, that 'Jaguar' wrench is older than the 'Superslim' pattern ones. Maybe 1950's? Maybe someone will know for sure.
The 3/4"x 7/8" short series Superslim ones can be quite expensive as they're compatible with later Jag. tool kits I have seen them listed around £30 but luckily I managed to buy one for a small fraction of that after looking for a long time.
A lack of catalogues and no date codes on the tools makes dating difficult, as you well know!
To the best of my knowledge, which isn't great, that 'Jaguar' wrench is older than the 'Superslim' pattern ones. Maybe 1950's? Maybe someone will know for sure.
The 3/4"x 7/8" short series Superslim ones can be quite expensive as they're compatible with later Jag. tool kits I have seen them listed around £30 but luckily I managed to buy one for a small fraction of that after looking for a long time.
A lack of catalogues and no date codes on the tools makes dating difficult, as you well know!
Managed to find another one I had been looking for from the the metric series, 19mm x 22mm but it's a 'British Made' example so older than the rest of my collection which are all 'Made in England'.
I have got a few of these British Made ones that have shown up as part of a lot, and for some reason they are a bit shorter than the 'Made In England' ones.
Here's a pic of comparison between the 17mm x 22mm.
I have got a few of these British Made ones that have shown up as part of a lot, and for some reason they are a bit shorter than the 'Made In England' ones.
Here's a pic of comparison between the 17mm x 22mm.
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I think it's now 74 different examples of the same series of OE wrenches... this one is an 'AMC', no, nothing to do with theater companies or agricultural mortgages.
It's Associated Motor Cycles, (Matchless, Norton, Sunbeam and that stuff from 1938 onwards. Don't know much about old bikes, but here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Motor_Cycles
It's marked 'British Made'. They're difficult to find and this is actually the 2nd one I have bought the other was stolen from the envelope in the mail and I only got an empty package with a neat hole cut in it! The ebay seller kindly refunded though so no financial loss.
It's Associated Motor Cycles, (Matchless, Norton, Sunbeam and that stuff from 1938 onwards. Don't know much about old bikes, but here's a link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Motor_Cycles
It's marked 'British Made'. They're difficult to find and this is actually the 2nd one I have bought the other was stolen from the envelope in the mail and I only got an empty package with a neat hole cut in it! The ebay seller kindly refunded though so no financial loss.
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Collecting these TW spanners is like waiting for the proverbial London Busses.. Nothing for ages, then loads turn up at once! Here's the latest find, a smaller version of the AMC contract made one I got last time. There's a few more updates to follow shortly, stay tuned folks..
That's it. Here's link to a background story of them:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associated_Motor_Cycles
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
I love following this thread for the old British adages as much as the old British wrenches.
Ha, pleased you are enjoying it Lugz. Now I will dredge up some old English nautical slang, and ask you to 'Stand By' (in this context it means to remain alert, available and ready to render assistance, not the other context of this same phrase which has quite the opposite meaning!) as hopefully you can help with identification of a BSA tool kit spanner which should be arriving in a few days.I love following this thread for the old British adages as much as the old British wrenches.
Asking you to 'Stand To' would imply to be ready for an attack, but I hope that won't be necessary..!
Here's the updates to the Superslim collection.. Now up to about 81 versions to go on the wall display, but I have some more variations stashed away.. Not enough space on the board, so as Tostal says i will have to add a 'wing' extension to it!
These 3 are all contract made for Lister. One of them has BSF one end and AF the other. Not all of the contract production ones actually have the 'TW' logo, but it's evident from the castings that these must have been made by them.
These 3 are all contract made for Lister. One of them has BSF one end and AF the other. Not all of the contract production ones actually have the 'TW' logo, but it's evident from the castings that these must have been made by them.
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Here's 2 more which I think are for motorcycle tool kits. A smaller 'AMC' (Associated Motor Cycles) and an obstruction wrench which I am told is for BSA (Birmingham Small Arms) 'Gold Star' bikes made 1938-63. I haven't been able to confirm this, so if anyone has information on it please contribute.. I have seen the same wrench made by other manufacturers but this one looks to me like it was made by TW.
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This one is a bit of an oddity. A 'Short Series' with BSF (British Standard, Fine) size markings but the 3/8 BSF end is bent, so either someone bent it or it was made for a Series Land Rover tool kit in order to reach the bolts which connect one of the propshafts to it's gearbox output shaft mounting flange. The chassis on these helpfully were made with a cross member right in the way, so a special cranked spanner is required!
I'm not sure if this size was used for that so once again if anyone has the information please add in. It's a long time since I have been under one! My Land Rovers are more modern and have 3/8" UNF (Unified Fine thread) bolts and nuts which require a 9/16" AF spanner. (Always carry that size, in case the prop needs to be disconnected for the vehicle to be towed with one axle suspended, to prevent the centre gearbox diff exploding)
I'm not sure if this size was used for that so once again if anyone has the information please add in. It's a long time since I have been under one! My Land Rovers are more modern and have 3/8" UNF (Unified Fine thread) bolts and nuts which require a 9/16" AF spanner. (Always carry that size, in case the prop needs to be disconnected for the vehicle to be towed with one axle suspended, to prevent the centre gearbox diff exploding)
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Good Morning Humber2,
Yes, that's what I thought. I eventually bought it anyway just for the fun. I had a close look under magnification at the 'MADE IN ENGLAND' letters and they have some of the exact same little blemishes as on other wrenches I have so it looks like the same letters were used in the moulds for different spanners. Also, there is a gap between the 'MADE IN' and 'ENGLAND' words which is the space where the TW logo would normally go, same as on the Lister one in a post above. So, I have come to the opinion that it must be made by TW despite the odd shape of the shank.
Did you ever find one of those Masport ones you mentioned? One of my sons has been on the look out for one, he does some farm stuff and lives in the Maniototo, but hasn't yet found a Masport Superslim!
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Colchester Lathe spanner shown is the sole example I have.
Below it are two strays to illustrate examples with a flat trench.
There is no trench or any detailing on the reverse side of the Shelley.
The top side of the SSP shown is concave but the reverse side trench is flat.
Below it are two strays to illustrate examples with a flat trench.
There is no trench or any detailing on the reverse side of the Shelley.
The top side of the SSP shown is concave but the reverse side trench is flat.
I have one of the same Colchester Lathe ones. Funny how the handle on them isn't the same as on the usual Superslims the 'trench' goes right to the ends.Colchester Lathe spanner shown is the sole example I have.
Below it are two strays to illustrate examples with a flat trench.
There is no trench or any detailing on the reverse side of the Shelley.
The top side of the SSP shown is concave but the reverse side trench is flat.
I have a few SSP spanners and also an odd Shelly, they;re similar design to T Williams but none exactly the same.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Very nice!
four.cycle
Well-known member
Fabulous.
Interesting that is a seven piece set.
Interesting that is a seven piece set.
Private Lugnutz
Well-known member
Farmer J, Dave455
Would you guys please interpret the expression "continental cars"? What does it mean? In a separate thread, I guessed that it meant of or pertaining to Europe, i.e., cars made in Europe vs. elsewhere. DAustin suggested it meant metric. And lo and behold, the wrenches are metric. But that still leaves me baffled. What would the box say if the wrenches were BSF or Whitworth? Certainly not all cars made in Europe when these wrenches were made had metric fasteners. So please clear this up. Is "continental" a synonym for "metric"? Or does it refer to European, regardless of the standard?
Would you guys please interpret the expression "continental cars"? What does it mean? In a separate thread, I guessed that it meant of or pertaining to Europe, i.e., cars made in Europe vs. elsewhere. DAustin suggested it meant metric. And lo and behold, the wrenches are metric. But that still leaves me baffled. What would the box say if the wrenches were BSF or Whitworth? Certainly not all cars made in Europe when these wrenches were made had metric fasteners. So please clear this up. Is "continental" a synonym for "metric"? Or does it refer to European, regardless of the standard?
Yes, sure. I always understood it to mean a car made on mainland Europe, rather than one made in the islands of Great Britain. Normally a French, German or Italian car. A Mercedes, Fiat or Citroen that sort of thing. They usually have metric fasteners and can be fast but rust quite quickly.
'American cars' are in a completely different league!
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That's a nice set JjK. I remember them being sold in boxes like that but rarely seen recently not many boxes have survived at all and not in that condition.
The metric sets were either 6 or seven piece, that 7 piece 'scooter set' included the smallest 6 and 7mm spanner.
I see yours have a small letter on the casting, looks like a letter 'M' ? These seem to vary and i suspect were when dies wore out or something and not date codes.
A question. Are these small letters all the same on all the spanners in your set? So few original sets survive it's hard to find out a pattern in them.
Thanks for posting, J.
Here's the advertisement and the 1965 catalogue contents listing for the various sets, which I posted up thread somewhere:
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That's a nice set JjK. I remember them being sold in boxes like that but rarely seen recently not many boxes have survived at all and not in that condition.
The metric sets were either 6 or seven piece, that 7 piece 'scooter set' included the smallest 6 and 7mm spanner.
I see yours have a small letter on the casting, looks like a letter 'M' ? These seem to vary and i suspect were when dies wore out or something and not date codes.
A question. Are these small letters all the same on all the spanners in your set? So few original sets survive it's hard to find out a pattern in them.
Thanks for posting, J.
Here's the advertisement and the 1965 catalogue contents listing for the various sets, which I posted up thread somewhere:
My set has a variety and they are Y, B, and W forge marks. Hard to see in the pics. Different dies then I guess?