The 1/2” Square Drive Thread

[four.cycle]

A Stahlwille set with metric sockets from 8 to 30mm.

^ pretty fabulous there, Dave.

 

[Wiz02]

I remember asking Dad at some time in the 60's why he didn't use his SO 1/2" drive sockets and ratchet anymore, and he said that he preferred the CMan 3/8" drive due to space constraints.

He bought the SO sockets and ratchet set during or right after WW2 as I recall, and he didn't trust the steel. Sadly, the set disappeared in the 80's during a move.

 

[Dave455]

I wonder why they put in both the breaker bad and the T handle in such sets. The T handle is still used a lot here in Europe, but it just seems a bit excessive to include both in a set cause they are kind of able to do the same thing for the most part. The breaker bar is maybe a bit more versatile even. Probably just tradition...

That case is huge. Must say I like the rounded metal Hazet ones more (or the Unior brand also has very nice rounded cases, just with plastic hinges - though the seem to work and also protect the metal when you put it on the ground).

The Sliding T and the Breaker Bar / Swivel handle are very different tools.

A Sliding T can be used to loosen a fastener, but only if it is tightened to moderate torque. In 1/2” drive I’ll use a sliding T for this purpose up to about 16mm.

What a Sliding T can do, that no other tool does as well, is to spin a fastener off very quickly, or vice versa. Having undertaken a good deal of assembly work in the defence industry, I wouldn’t be without one.

Sometimes you need the Breaker Bar / Swivel handle for leverage. Sometimes even the 15 inch one included in the set is inadequate, and I tend to use 18 inch as standard.

Removing a wheel, I’ll typically loosen the bolts using a breaker bar while there is still weight on the wheel. Having jacked the vehicle, I’ll spin off the bolts with the Sliding T.

Yes, I think I prefer the Hazet cases more. In fact, I’ve come round to the view that I prefer Hazet slightly more generally. At the time though, I was getting a generous discount on Stahlwille.

 

[Dave455]

I remember asking Dad at some time in the 60's why he didn't use his SO 1/2" drive sockets and ratchet anymore, and he said that he preferred the CMan 3/8" drive due to space constraints.

He bought the SO sockets and ratchet set during or right after WW2 as I recall, and he didn't trust the steel. Sadly, the set disappeared in the 80's during a move.

Space available is the big argument for 3/8” drive.

My experience of wartime U.S. tools is that the steel is of very good quality. Finishing can be variable, some a bit thin, some non existent, but the steel the tools are made of, and the heat treatment, tends to be excellent.

Here in the U.K. we have a number of “wartime” tools that are actually “pre war” as far as the U.S. was concerned. This is the “sweet spot” for buying tools, or anything else for that matter.

These tools are always first class, and better than anything available here at the time. However, even the later tools that lack any plating are still perfectly usable. I still have my Grandfathers Williams tools from this period (shown below) and my Dad continued using them until he bought a metric vehicle.

The sockets in the middle row are Blackhawk (BS sizes), the bottom row are later unplated Williams, which probably saw more use than the Blackhawk on account of being SAE sizes.


I’m sorry your set ”disappeared”. On the two occasions my family moved, no tools were ever trusted to removal men! They were transported to my Grandfathers house in car loads, and remained there till the new house had been occupied!

 

[Samuel D]

What a Sliding T can do, that no other tool does as well, is to spin a fastener off very quickly, or vice versa. Having undertaken a good deal of assembly work in the defence industry, I wouldn’t be without one.

Another use for a sliding T-bar is pure-torque applications (as when tapping a hole).

I find myself needing that option, or at least strongly preferring it, often enough to wonder how Americans get along without a sliding T-bar. I suppose an impact driver does the job in some cases (with no feel or subtlety, though).

I think the quick-spinning function of a sliding T-bar has been deprecated somewhat by the arrival of high-torque ratchets. There are no doubt cases where someone might still prefer a sliding T (especially if you’ve got the muscle memory for it), but I can see Americans generally preferring a strong ratchet handle.

For me, I have more use for pure torque than fast spinning. So I wish the sliding T-bars included in sets were longer. They’re always short, presumably to aid spinning (and because who cares when using it as a breaker bar with a length of pipe on the end).

I get the impression no-one in tool companies is giving these matters a lot of thought nowadays, though they clearly did when these products were first designed and became popular. But needs change with the times, and I’d like to see more originality in set contents in particular.

 

[Samuel D]

I wonder why they put in both the breaker bad and the T handle in such sets. The T handle is still used a lot here in Europe, but it just seems a bit excessive to include both in a set cause they are kind of able to do the same thing for the most part. The breaker bar is maybe a bit more versatile even. Probably just tradition...

I’m with you, notwithstanding Dave455’s good points about the different uses of different handle styles.

I also think (and maybe you don’t, from what I recall) that the standard ratchet in these sets should be longer.

Too much tradition, maybe.

 

[Dave455]

Another use for a sliding T-bar is pure-torque applications (as when tapping a hole).

I find myself needing that option, or at least strongly preferring it, often enough to wonder how Americans get along without a sliding T-bar. I suppose an impact driver does the job in some cases (with no feel or subtlety, though).

I think the quick-spinning function of a sliding T-bar has been deprecated somewhat by the arrival of high-torque ratchets. There are no doubt cases where someone might still prefer a sliding T (especially if you’ve got the muscle memory for it), but I can see Americans generally preferring a strong ratchet handle.

For me, I have more use for pure torque than fast spinning. So I wish the sliding T-bars included in sets were longer. They’re always short, presumably to aid spinning (and because who cares when using it as a breaker bar with a length of pipe on the end).

I get the impression no-one in tool companies is giving these matters a lot of thought nowadays, though they clearly did when these products were first designed and became popular. But needs change with the times, and I’d like to see more originality in set contents in particular.

Yes, you are correct in this regard.

If I’m tapping something in an automotive application I tend to use tap holding sockets (KoKen), an appropriate extension, and a Sliding T.

There is no other style of handle that gives me the torque, without any risk of a side load.

Most American manufacturers do offer a Sliding T. I have some beautiful older ones by Blackhawk, and also a few from Snap On. Mac do not offer them however, and I suspect Proto have dropped them.

Nobody promotes them anyway.

Sometimes I like to use a sliding T in the mid position, single handed. Add a ratchet unit and you have the most effective one handed tool out there!

 

[Dave455]

I’m with you, notwithstanding Dave455’s good points about the different uses of different handle styles.

I also think (and maybe you don’t, from what I recall) that the standard ratchet in these sets should be longer.

Too much tradition, maybe.

I think most manufacturers are completely out of touch with their customers, and how they use tools.

Most of the sets generally on offer have not changed in 4 or 5 decades, but requirements have.

My pet peeves -

1) Yes - making a set with sockets up to about 30mm and only a standard length ratchet. Is this a Mr Universe event or something? No way are you going to loosen an average 30mm nut with a standard ratchet. You will struggle with a 17mm wheel bolt.

2) 12 Point sockets. For the most part I stopped buying these years back. If manufacturers think they are o.k. they should try removing some butter soft swaged head fasteners that some of the cheaper vehicle manufacturers use. It won’t be happening.

3) In fact, supplying any set (other than 1/4”) with just a ratchet is annoying. I know some modern ratchets can be used to break loose fasteners, but a lot can not. Don’t be telling me I shouldn’t use a ratchet for breaking loose a fastener if that’s the only option in the box!

4) Lack of inhex / Torx bits. I see sets including metric sized sockets in rare sizes you might never use, but they hardly ever include male hex or Torx bit sockets, despite the fact those fasteners are everywhere!

 

[F-22]

A Sliding T can be used to loosen a fastener, but only if it is tightened to moderate torque. In 1/2” drive I’ll use a sliding T for this purpose up to about 16mm.

What a Sliding T can do, that no other tool does as well, is to spin a fastener off very quickly, or vice versa. Having undertaken a good deal of assembly work in the defence industry, I wouldn’t be without one.

Sometimes you need the Breaker Bar / Swivel handle for leverage. Sometimes even the 15 inch one included in the set is inadequate, and I tend to use 18 inch as standard.

Older sets here (central Europe) didn't generally come with breaker bars. They sometimes had a speed handle instead. The sliding T is designed for high torque, people typically put a long bar over it. The way it is designed makes it very strong - I suspect that the pins or the forks of an (old) breaker bar would spread sooner than anything on the sliding T since there's hardly anything to it (but modern ones are generally both at least as strong), under very high torque the most likely issue is that the handle can bend.

I'm not sure how a sliding T takes off a fastener fast though. I always found them a bit awkward at that, and 1/2" isn't small or light. The breaker bar I just fold out like a screwdriver and spin, but the T handle will make the handle flop all over if spun.

 

[mikey03]

Not exactly a mobile mechanic but I do some work on freinds and family cars at their places and I usually live around 10 to 15 minutes away so I could go home for more tools but I do have a bit of a portable set. To give you an idea of how I run 1/2

I got 8 to 19 in 3/8 in shallow and deep chrome NO SKIPS
then for 1/2 drive I got 17, 19, 21, 22, 24, 27, 30, 32 in deep impact with a stubby m12 impact gun plus one single 1/2 breaker bar and no regular 1/2 ratchet

i also have 3/8 and 1/2 torque wrenches ratcheting split beam style

its not what a pro mechanic would have but so far its gotten me by. I did buy a no skips metric impact socket set so if I need something weird like a 20mm I could drive home and get it but that’s not a size I’ve seen so far

then for 1/4 I got a 4mm to 14mm in shallows only plus a small flex head ratchet and a torque wrench

i figure if it’s small enough that I need 1/4 then give me small flex head ratchet. 3/8 is my bread and butter give me everything. 1/2 is more brakes, wheels, suspension and the tools are big and heavy and so I go with standard sizes. If I need 1/2 I can fit a deep impact and run the stubby m12. If the m12 doesn’t have the ugga duggas I got the 1/2 breaker bar. Once it’s loose I can either run it off by hand or with the impact. Putting it back it goes by hand first and then impact until close and switch to torque wrench to finish. Im not working on super new cars and to be honest I haven’t done much work around the suspension so this has gotten me by so far.

i am always wondering what should I add so if anyone has tips on what I’m missing I’d appreciate it

 

[Dave455]

I was recently tempted by this 1/2” drive Stahlwille set advertised locally.

There are a couple of reasons why I almost didn’t go for it. One being that the included sockets are all 12 point (which I already have an excess of) and the other being the lack of any sensible length handle.

But in the end I couldn’t resist for £150 ($200) especially as it appears essentially unused! Metric sockets up to 34mm, SAE up to 1 1/4”.

 

[Semi-hole mechanic]

I grew up with an old farmer dad who didn’t buy a 3/8” set until the late 70s when he needed MM sockets to work on cars. I still have his CMan 1/2” and 1/4” sets. The 1/2” set is from 1948 (1947 catalog) that is still in the original box , and has the original speeder, breaker bar , and a couple of 12pt sockets. The 1/4” set is from the late 50’s early 60’s and is almost all original. I have bought standard MM sets and deeps in both SAE and MM for both drive sizes. I rarely use 3/8” except for bit sockets and E-Torx.

 

[Dave455]

Some Blackhawk sockets (and a ratchet) I have been cleaning up today. Unusually for me, in SAE sizes,


Some ”food for thought” if you view 1/2” drive as something solely for larger fasteners.

This 7/16 socket is beautifully proportioned. Yes, I know in some circumstances you might want it slimmer, but in other circumstances these are lovely to use.


The square drive will never be a point of failure.


And the standard length ratchet handle has more than enough leverage to comfortably move even a rusted fastener, of common size.

Admittedly in this case, it’s Blackhawks faultless “Free Wheeling Ratchet” incorporating a sprag clutch. Probably the best ”ratchet” ever made, and decades ahead of it’s time, like so much Blackhawk. This one still works flawlessly, despite being circa 80 years old.


And of course these tools all incorporate Blackhawk’s push button ”Lock On” feature. Again, still working perfectly. I’m not convinced that our modern quick release ratchet’s are an improvement as these can be released so easily with one hand.

 

[mikey03]

An “off road” enthusiast friend carries predominantly 3/8” drive, but carries just an 18” breaker bar in 1/2” drive, and about six sockets. That setup is never optimum for speed, but does the job. I carry a 1/2” breaker bar in most of my vehicles also.

Another option is to carry predominantly 1/2 “ drive, and supplement with a generous selection of 1/4” drive. This was common years ago, and I wonder if it will become more so as the range of 1/4” drive tools offered by the better manufacturers ever expands?

I been thinking alot about this since I do some mobile work but not professionally and honestly the answer to this here is don’t do mobile work esp as a nonprofessional

sometimes you do what you got to do and I came up with something that’s been working okay but honestly I haven’t done much car work in my life compared to most here

a full 3/8 set going way smaller and way bigger than 3/8 should be doing

add in 1/4 for low profile sockets only dont even bother with deep use 3/8 for deeps if you need deeps you prob got room for 3/8

add in XL double box wrenches in every size for whatever your using 1/2 for 16x 18 & 17 x 19 & 22 x 24. brake loose with the wrench and switch to a 3/8 socket

if your wanting to do it fast and efficient you need a full set. If your wanting to get away with a smaller mobile box then it’s going to take longer but you can do it if your smart but your going to figure it out yourself since no one wants to talk about small mobile mechanics kits it hurts there brains

have a totally separate kit for 1/2 and only bring it if your doing suspension work

 

[SwissMetric]

If I had to choose only one set per drive size (all Stahlwille):



I'd possibly have to add a set of deep 1/4" sockets as there are no comprehensive 1/4" Stahlwille metric sets as sadly there is no metric equivalent of the imperial 40aD/30/7QR.

Maybe a pure TORX set could be added:


There are also pure Allen (INBUS, called INHEX by Stahlwille) sets or specific socket sets, some missing additional sockets have been included, like the odd 13 mm Allen (INBUS) socket, there are also Ribe-CV and XZN (no pic readily available, sorry):

 

[Dave455]

I been thinking alot about this since I do some mobile work but not professionally and honestly the answer to this here is don’t do mobile work esp as a nonprofessional

sometimes you do what you got to do and I came up with something that’s been working okay but honestly I haven’t done much car work in my life compared to most here

a full 3/8 set going way smaller and way bigger than 3/8 should be doing

add in 1/4 for low profile sockets only dont even bother with deep use 3/8 for deeps if you need deeps you prob got room for 3/8

add in XL double box wrenches in every size for whatever your using 1/2 for 16x 18 & 17 x 19 & 22 x 24. brake loose with the wrench and switch to a 3/8 socket

if your wanting to do it fast and efficient you need a full set. If your wanting to get away with a smaller mobile box then it’s going to take longer but you can do it if your smart but your going to figure it out yourself since no one wants to talk about small mobile mechanics kits it hurts there brains

have a totally separate kit for 1/2 and only bring it if your doing suspension work

Unfortunately, for a lot of folks, mobile work is just a fact of life.

In my case, with family scattered around, it’s unavoidable. There are also a lot of folks who live in apartments and suchlike, who are effectively doing “mobile” work even when they are working on their own vehicles.

You seem to have reached a good solution for your needs. There is no one solution for all, but this forum tends to be full of good ideas, some of which I‘ve nicked over the years!

One needs to be careful with mobile boxes. It’s easy to add more and more stuff, then suddenly the box is no longer mobile.

I think the double box end wrench is a very underrated tool. For me, even at base, they are my “go to”, but if you can get organised they are great for mobile use, as you need relatively few.

For so many jobs I can’t manage without some 1/2” drive, even if it’s just a breaker bar and one socket for wheel bolts. This is generally why I have a breaker bar on each vehicle.

Both Facom and Hazet offer extendable ratchet’s (Facom in both 3/8 and 1/2) and I can see me going down this path for my “road box”.


Facom also offer an extendable breaker bar.


A complete 1/2” drive set in it’s own box that you can grab when needed is invaluable!

 

[Dave455]

If I had to choose only one set per drive size (all Stahlwille):



I'd possibly have to add a set of deep 1/4" sockets as there are no comprehensive 1/4" Stahlwille metric sets as sadly there is no metric equivalent of the imperial 40aD/30/7QR.

Maybe a pure TORX set could be added:


There are also pure Allen (INBUS, called INHEX by Stahlwille) sets or specific socket sets, some missing additional sockets have been included, like the odd 13 mm Allen (INBUS) socket, there are also Ribe-CV and XZN (no pic readily available, sorry):

Very nice!

I have always admired those comprehensive sets by Stahlwille!

Unfortunately, all those specialist sockets tended to make those sets costly. Even when I was getting a good trade discount on Stahlwille they were pricey.

 

[SwissMetric]

There comes a point where you need to make a selection of the tools you expect to require or you'd ultimately require an 20' or even 40' ISO container on a semi-trailer.

@Dave455:
That's a great set worth every Cent or Penny. Sadly those amazing steel cases have become rare.
The single-component hard plastic grip similar to the original DRALL (not the latter DRALL+ which is 2-component) is no longer available as spare part but it is much more robust then the two 2-component versions which followed.
The spare parts for the rachtet mechanism itself are still the same (5120 spare part set).


Edited for a typo but there are probably others.

 

[SwissMetric]

Very nice!

I have always admired those comprehensive sets by Stahlwille!

Unfortunately, all those specialist sockets tended to make those sets costly. Even when I was getting a good trade discount on Stahlwille they were pricey.

I agree but those tools last extremely long if not severly abused.

The most amazing 3/8" ratchet I know is indeed a reversible Stanley Rotator ratchet with rotating grip, it looks like a regular ratchet but the grip can be rotated in BOTH directions while the socket will still rotate only in the preset direction, so for each angular degree you rotate the handle in any direction the socket rotates in the same direction, there is no "dead" return.

Edited to add name and correct to 3/8", don't know if there's a 1/2" version.
Inadvertently made a 2nd post instead of editing the previous one. Sorry.

 

[AJHD]

Very nice!

I have always admired those comprehensive sets by Stahlwille!

Unfortunately, all those specialist sockets tended to make those sets costly. Even when I was getting a good trade discount on Stahlwille they were pricey.

In general, I would love to have some of the Stahlwille and Wera tool sets.

Maybe they are more common and reasonably priced in Europe (or parts of Europe), but here in the US they are indeed way too expensive and can/do rival tool truck prices (without the benefits of a tool truck).

 

[Dave455]

@Dave455:
That's a great set worth every Cent or Penny. Sadly those amazing steel cases have become rare.
The single-component hard plastic grip similar to the original DRALL (not the latter DRALL+ which is 2-component) is no longer available as spare part but it is much more robust then the two 2-component versions which followed.
The spare parts for the rachtet mechanism itself are still the same (5120 spare part set).

Yes, sadly the steel cases are rare.

When I bought the new Stahlwille set I had the forethought to buy a spare new steel case!

No good getting older if you don’t get artful!

I ended up putting together my own 1/4” drive set to incorporate the pieces I wanted (steel handle ratchet’s).


Unfortunately, the box is far from ideal.

I need to either make up a wooden box with dividers, as I have done for other tools


Or maybe adapt a Toyo / Trusco box.

They are most commonly available in blue however, and obviously, you can’t put Stahlwille in a blue box…

 

[Dave455]

In general, I would love to have some of the Stahlwille and Wera tool sets.

Maybe they are more common and reasonably priced in Europe (or parts of Europe), but here in the US they are indeed way too expensive and can/do rival tool truck prices (without the benefits of a tool truck).

Yes, they’re a lot cheaper in the U.K. or Europe.

Also, it was generally possible to get a generous trade discount on Stahlwille, which was never really feasible on say Snap On.

Although the sets that SwissMetric shows were always the top end. The 1/2“ drive set with the deep and universal sockets is still available, still in the steel case. Price is equivalent of about 1000 USD - before discount!

 

[SwissMetric]

Wholesales Stahlwille Ex Work prices are probably not that high, which explains that some discounts are quite high. But of course I don't know any details.

I suppose that the large 1/2" and 3/8" sets in the steel cases are no longer manufactured new, some articles are still in the catalogs as long as there is some remaining stock.

Attached is an example of a 1/4" + 1/2" combination set where the left foam insert of the 1/4" set is indeed a separate insert which can be removed and placed into a plastic case or forced into a no longer available metal case. It can also be replaced by any other insert of compatible size as long as the tools are not too high.

The 2nd pic shows what happens if the case is openend upside-down, pic taken as is, untouched.

 

[Dave455]

The most amazing 3/8" ratchet I know is indeed a reversible Stanley Rotator ratchet with rotating grip, it looks like a regular ratchet but the grip can be rotated in BOTH directions while the socket will still rotate only in the preset direction, so for each angular degree you rotate the handle in any direction the socket rotates in the same direction, there is no "dead" return.

Edited to add name and correct to 3/8", don't know if there's a 1/2" version.
Inadvertently made a 2nd post instead of editing the previous one. Sorry.

I believe the “Rotator” ratchet was originally a Facom design. They offer them in three drive sizes, as well as quick release, and even a bit driver version, which I own. Facom are, of course, owned by SBD so no surprise there is a Stanley version.

There was an older tool called a “sidewinder”, but it’s nowhere near as clever as the Facom.

I think a lot of folks see these but don’t realise exactly how they work.

 

[SwissMetric]

I didn't know that. Facom is quite popular here but, like Beta,I don't know their tools well. There is also Berner which is merely a serial-private-labeler like Würth though Würth operates some manufacturing, IIRC some screws but I don't know the details.

Has someone any idea about the mechanism?

Too bad we can't access a high power X-ray scanner.


@Dave455:
Nice boxes.
The old DRALL 400 grip is great, it still features the rear female 1/4" at the end of the grip, the two newer 2-component grips cover the end of the overmolded steel part. Typical example of one of those Stahlwille negative improvements.

Most Stahlwille steel boxes are no longer available. I don't like any of the new plastic boxes. There were several generation of steel boxes and the older ones with steel hinges and steel fasteners were the best.
The flat boxes with the leather imitation handle made of steel are probably remaining stock items and steel boxes will mostly only be used for 3/4" and 1" sets (as catalog 1" set can reach about 30 kg or close to 60 lbs. and with some additiional accessories you can add another 10 kg (about 20 lbs.) which makes the box very heavy.

There used to be very robust long narrow black steel boxes for high-end torque wrenches but many Manoskop come now in plastic cases or a just a telescopic plastic tube.

Some foam inserts from current plastic cases can be forced in older metal cases.
A few metal cases are listed in the catalog page 166 of 399 of the PDF, the printout page is 164 (English Stahlwille catalog, easy to find "CATALOGUE 2020/2021 Professional tool solutions").

I'd like to find out how to machine those foam inserts but haven't tried it yet, I suppose some high-speeds above 10000 RPM and very sharp end mills are required.

 

[Dave455]

I didn't know that. Facom is quite popular here but, like Beta,I don't know their tools well. There is also Berner which is merely a serial-private-labeler like Würth though Würth operates some manufacturing, IIRC some screws but I don't know the details.

Has someone any idea about the mechanism?

Too bad we can't access a high power X-ray scanner.


@Dave455:
Nice boxes.
The old DRALL 400 grip is great, it still features the rear female 1/4" at the end of the grip, the two newer 2-component grips cover the end of the overmolded steel part. Typical example of one of those Stahlwille negative improvements.

Most Stahlwille steel boxes are no longer available. I don't like any of the new plastic boxes. There were several generation of steel boxes and the older ones with steel hinges and steel fasteners were the best.
The flat boxes with the leather imitation handle made of steel are probably remaining stock items and steel boxes will mostly only be used for 3/4" and 1" sets (as catalog 1" set can reach about 30 kg or close to 60 lbs. and with some additiional accessories you can add another 10 kg (about 20 lbs.) which makes the box very heavy.

There used to be very robust long narrow black steel boxes for high-end torque wrenches but many Manoskop come now in plastic cases or a just a telescopic plastic tube.

Some foam inserts from current plastic cases can be forced in older metal cases.
A few metal cases are listed in the catalog page 166 of 399 of the PDF, the printout page is 164 (English Stahlwille catalog, easy to find "CATALOGUE 2020/2021 Professional tool solutions").

I'd like to find out how to machine those foam inserts but haven't tried it yet, I suppose some high-speeds above 10000 RPM and very sharp end mills are required.

Facom is quite popular here, at least in certain circles. The designs were always innovative and the quality quite high.

There is a Facom thread with a lot of pictures.

Not sure about the mechanism. You can see it better on the bit driver I have (seems to be two opposing sprag clutches) but have not worked out the details.

I must admit I‘m not a great fan of foam inserts. I much prefer steel boxes with carefully designed steel dividers, as they take up much less space. Although the Stahlwille sets you show are much better designed than some. The smaller sets use the same box and just space the tools out.

Alternatively, I like to make my own wooden dividers. They are soft enough to prevent damage to the tools, but still compact.


I’ve had many custom foam inserts made when working in the defence industry, and seen the process, albeit generally for denser foam than is used in tool boxes.

They are cut with a tool that looks like a regular slot drill, but relatively slow helix. You’re right about the cutting speed - very fast. My woodworker used a machine that was cutting at 10,000 rpm and I’d have said the foam was being cut faster than that. Also, it was being held on a vacuum table. Difficult to grip otherwise.

 

[SwissMetric]

I can possibly have a test performed on a CNC but I'll have to ask and provide a STEP file. Bi-color foam plate can be purchased but are quite expensive.
Wood tends to end quite heavy.
Worst are those green thermoformed polystyrene sheet inserts (trays), they all break sooner or later, there are various versions with different sheet thicknesses.
The best inserts were rubber inserts, a very long time ago, but they were rare and probably way too expensive to manufacture.

IIRC Stahlwille uses steel boxes with steel sheet dividers only for the 1" sets, they're great because you can add some other parts but you end with awfully heavy boxes.
The inserts of the 3/4"sets don't survive long, parts are way too heavy. None of the older 1/2" and 3/8" polystyrene set inserts survive.

As tools are to be used I don't pamper them, I'm not a polished chrome tool fetishist, if a took breaks I repair or replace it but it rarely happens. Overall very good tools cost less than cheap ones if you use them heavily, especially also if spare parts are available.
Old ratchets from leading manufacturers should never be discarded as they can often be repaired.

Maybe the discussed ratchet mechanism has been patented, could try a search later. One of the few really inmovative ratchet ideas.

 

[crashmtb]

I've got a very compact Koken 1/2" drive ratchet, highly portable but man is it hard to undo a wheel bolt

 

[mikey03]

I've got a very compact Koken 1/2" drive ratchet, highly portable but man is it hard to undo a wheel bolt

Put your jack handle over that beast

 

[Etchase]

Stanley sells the rotator ratchet under the Craftsman name as well. This is the 3/8 version quick release compared to a quick release 45 tooth Proto premium, and a pebble design. It’s not low profile.

 

[Etchase]

This patent might be relevant for the rotator ratchet.

US5058463A - Ratchet wrench with dual-rotating constant drive handle - Google Patents

A ratchet wrench having a handle through which a rotatable shaft extends. A bevel gear is coupled to one end of the shaft for rotation by the shaft about an input drive axis. A pair of concentrically aligned ring gears are coupled to the bevel gear for counter rotation of the ring gears, by the...

patents.google.com

It was assigned to the Stanley Works in 2002. Stanley entered a purchase agreement for FACOM in 2005.

Edit: I found an example of a Blackhawk with this patent number on it. I’ve also seen these branded Bostich. I can’t take mine apart. If you remove the two set screws and let a couple rods fall out you can separate the comfort grip which is connected to a shaft that goes down the handle, but that’s in. The mechanism in the head is pressed together as far as I can tell.

 

[KnurledNut]

One of my grab and go 1/2 drive kits is stored in a little metal box, 225mm x 95mm x 40mm.
The small profile is very convenient because I often already have the drive tools with me and just need the sockets.
I used a thin (+/- 6mm) medium density packing foam in the bottom which will lightly indent and keep the neighboring sockets stationary when one is removed.

 

[Dave455]

This patent might be relevant for the rotator ratchet.

US5058463A - Ratchet wrench with dual-rotating constant drive handle - Google Patents

A ratchet wrench having a handle through which a rotatable shaft extends. A bevel gear is coupled to one end of the shaft for rotation by the shaft about an input drive axis. A pair of concentrically aligned ring gears are coupled to the bevel gear for counter rotation of the ring gears, by the...

patents.google.com

It was assigned to the Stanley Works in 2002. Stanley entered a purchase agreement for FACOM in 2005.

Very interesting! Yes, that’s essentially the design.

Makes sense as that ratchet was a newer thing for Facom.

 

[SwissMetric]

@Etchase:
Thanks for the patent. Only ever saw the yellow Stanley version here.
The mechanisme is quite subtle indeed. I don't use that ratchet often but in some cases it's just great to have it available. It's one of the rare exotic tools I'd recommend without hesitation. Usually I don't like exotic complex tools.


I feel so stupid: Just discovered that Heyco still exists and there are lots of tools stamped "Germany", AFAIK such marking on the tool itself implies that it is made in Germany, unlike those lame "Designed in Germany" or "German Quality".

HEYCO Qualitätswerkzeuge

Until maybe roughly around the late 80's/early 90's there were a lot of German hand tool manufacturers, most were not very well known in Switzerland but you could still see some of those tools. Now you can still get some mix of thm in old used sets.
Probably a dozen manufacturers or so, no idea if they exported much to the U.S.A.

 

[Dave455]

I feel so stupid: Just discovered that Heyco still exists and there are lots of tools stamped "Germany", AFAIK such marking on the tool itself implies that it is made in Germany, unlike those lame "Designed in Germany" or "German Quality".

HEYCO Qualitätswerkzeuge

Yes, Heyco very much exist!

Their “Maxline” wrenches are something of a favourite here as they have a much brighter finish than many German tools.


I have quite a few of their screwdrivers. Only for those who like green, but fortunately I do!


They make a lot of the better quality screwdrivers for third parties too - companies such as Bernstein, the electrical supplier, so if you don’t like green there are options…!

They also make the better screwdrivers for Carl Kammerling, a well known British distributor. I really like these and have a fair number.


I would have no hesitation in buying any Heyco tool, they are well made and nicely finished. Unfortunately, they are not heavily promoted, I think because so much of their output is sold under other names.

As this is the 1/2 inch square drive thread, here’s a modern Heyco 1/2” drive set.


Beware of their low price “Heytec” line which is imported / rebranded. Thankfully they do distinguish it well. Also beware of lower cost tools that were supplied as part of vehicle tool kits. These are usually obvious from the patterns / finish.

 

[KnurledNut]

Just discovered that Heyco still exists and there are lots of tools stamped "Germany", AFAIK such marking on the tool itself implies that it is made in Germany, unlike those lame "Designed in Germany" or "German Quality".

Some of their tools are made at the Heyco plant in Ireland, even though they say Germany.

 

[SwissMetric]

Hyeyco possibly finishing in Germany? I don't know.

Stahlwille operates a forging plant in some Eastern European country but the "semi-finished" parts (Rohlinge in German, ébauches in French, I've forgotten the English word though) are further processed in Germany. There are promotional explanation panels showing the different manufacturing steps with real parts (wrenches).
As long as the value added in Germay is high enough it is legally considered as "Made in Germany", similar rules are applied by other countries but details vary.

I remember some small machines sent as kit to Europe which were quickly assembled (less than an hour or so) to optimize custom duties and taxes, was probably illegal but didn't get noticed it. Was a market leader in its domain, not a small company. Was surprised that they even dared to talk about.


@Dave455:
Great steel box. Some time ago there were still some steel box manufacturerin Germany but I've no idea if it's still the... case.
There is also a German company manufacturing Pelican-like cases but I can never remember the name, good quality at reasonable prices (Made in Germany).
IMO here a lot could be manufactured at competitives prices if there were less bureaucracy, including idiotic standards, useless safety requirements, certifications, etc. Also permits to drive forklifts or to use hydraulic cranes (excepted tiny ones), etc.
Sadly "Make Europe (or Switzerland) Weak or Tiny" again will apply. The tool market has drastically changed over the last decades.

BTW I'd really like to know which paint Stahlwille uses for the large steel cases, very resistant against scratches.

I have a question.

I find 1/2” drive tools clumsy. But the sockets aren’t objectionable. Why aren’t there any 1/2” drives in 3/8” bodies? Or are there? I’d be far more interested in such a tool. I have b sockets in sizes only available in 1/2” drive.

I've posted some pics showing a classic Stahlwille 435 3/8" 30 teeth ratchet where the original 3/8" male square drive rotating part (pinion) has simply be replaced by a 1/2" male square drive rotating part usually intended for a specific torque wrench ratchet head. It can also be replaced by a rotating part for 5/16" bits.
It's the last ratchet of the pic.

Personally, as already mentioned it, I mostly use 1/4" and 1/2". 3/8" is nice to have but I'd always recommend to get very good 1/4" and 1/2" sets but of course mileages very widely vary. 3/4" when required and 1" really when there is no other solution as 1" tools are surprisingly heavy. For higher torques I try to use impact sockets instead of regular ones. I also use 1/2" and 3/4" mechanical Manoskop torque wrenches to losen bolts and nuts, there's no issue as long as the torque is not higher than the highest preset value and if ever required they can be repaired. I just like the long handles. T-Handles are a must have for "symmetrical" work but I rarely use them. Planetary gears are sort of cumbersome (?) to use, heavy and bulky, in addition you need a way to counter-react the torque. Ratchet adapters like the 563 (3/4") as well as the smaller ones (3/8" and 1/2") allow high torques but require quit some space.
There various commercially available compact 1/2" ratchets but I only know the homebrewed one below. It's even possible to make DYI Manoskop with torque ranges not listed in the catalog but as the CE will be missing you can't use it for regulated work even if it is calibrated fully according to ISO.

 

[Dave455]

Hyeyco possibly finishing in Germany? I don't know.

Stahlwille operates a forging plant in some Eastern European country but the "semi-finished" parts (Rohlinge in German, ébauches in French, I've forgotten the English word though) are further processed in Germany. There are promotional explanation panels showing the different manufacturing steps with real parts (wrenches).
As long as the value added in Germay is high enough it is legally considered as "Made in Germany", similar rules are applied by other countries but details vary.

I remember some small machines sent as kit to Europe which were quickly assembled (less than an hour or so) to optimize custom duties and taxes, was probably illegal but didn't get noticed it. Was a market leader in its domain, not a small company. Was surprised that they even dared to talk about.


@Dave455:
Great steel box. Some time ago there were still some steel box manufacturerin Germany but I've no idea if it's still the... case.
There is also a German company manufacturing Pelican-like cases but I can never remember the name, good quality at reasonable prices (Made in Germany).
IMO here a lot could be manufactured at competitives prices if there were less bureaucracy, including idiotic standards, useless safety requirements, certifications, etc. Also permits to drive forklifts or to use hydraulic cranes (excepted tiny ones), etc.
Sadly "Make Europe (or Switzerland) Weak or Tiny" again will apply. The tool market has drastically changed over the last decades.

BTW I'd really like to know which paint Stahlwille uses for the large steel cases, very resistant against scratches.




I've posted some pics showing a classic Stahlwille 435 3/8" 30 teeth ratchet where the original 3/8" male square drive rotating part (pinion) has simply be replaced by a 1/2" male square drive rotating part usually intended for a specific torque wrench ratchet head. It can also be replaced by a rotating part for 5/16" bits.
It's the last ratchet of the pic.

Personally, as already mentioned it, I mostly use 1/4" and 1/2". 3/8" is nice to have but I'd always recommend to get very good 1/4" and 1/2" sets but of course mileages very widely vary. 3/4" when required and 1" really when there is no other solution as 1" tools are surprisingly heavy. For higher torques I try to use impact sockets instead of regular ones. I also use 1/2" and 3/4" mechanical Manoskop torque wrenches to losen bolts and nuts, there's no issue as long as the torque is not higher than the highest preset value and if ever required they can be repaired. I just like the long handles. T-Handles are a must have for "symmetrical" work but I rarely use them. Planetary gears are sort of cumbersome (?) to use, heavy and bulky, in addition you need a way to counter-react the torque. Ratchet adapters like the 563 (3/4") as well as the smaller ones (3/8" and 1/2") allow high torques but require quit some space.
There various commercially available compact 1/2" ratchets but I only know the homebrewed one below. It's even possible to make DYI Manoskop with torque ranges not listed in the catalog but as the CE will be missing you can't use it for regulated work even if it is calibrated fully according to ISO.

I was never sure of the origins of Stahlwille boxes.

Their aviation boxes are relatively expensive but the quality is good and I don’t doubt they are made in Germany.


But some of their boxes are relatively inexpensive.

The smallest of the three cantilever boxes they offer can be purchased in the U.K. for the equivalent of just over $50. If that’s a German made box (which they claim) that’s a very good deal.

Actually, even if it isn’t, that’s not bad! Cheaper than two petrol cans!


I like this style, although they are more expensive. Britool sold some of their 1/2” drive sets in a box with a lift out tray. The socket set fitted into the top tray, so you had space to add other tools below and still have a portable box.

 

[Gebirgekind]

Cool thread @Dave455 and interesting discussion. It reminded me of going through my great uncle’s field toolbox, he was a sheep rancher in Southern Utah and had only a 1/2” ratchet, T-handle, and L-bar, then just a 9/32”-drive breaker bar for working on the farm machines. Early New Britain, Blackhawk, Walden, and Plomb, strangely the only 1/2” socket there was the Snap-on drag link.

 

[Gebirgekind]

For my own use, I had a similar experience expressed here, grew up using only 3/8” because it’s all I ever saw my dad use. But when I started doing bigger jobs on my truck in college I eventually needed 1/2”. Now I use all three primary drive sizes pretty evenly.

I had a SK 1/2” set that was missing deep sockets on the big end; after they went overseas I decided to fill in with Gray Canada sockets because my sister had access in Alberta - they’re my new favorites, so nice I kind of wish I could switch everything over to Gray !




Also pretty happy with my newest 1/2” drive additions, these large size inhex sockets from Hazet.