The Facom Tools Thread.

[Dave455]

Is there a more complete set of the 440XL pattern, or very close to it, sold under another brand in the family? But not the RBRT or any other sets with serrations.

The problem you have with Facom, and I think largely with USAG, is the variety of patterns on offer.

Facom replaced their classic No.40 wrench with the 440, and it’s available in just about every size from 4 to 41mm, possibly some others.

The issue for Facom is that their standard long pattern wrench is the No.40LA, which is available from 19mm.


The short pattern, No.39, is available in the smaller sizes.


And the offset (and slightly longer ) No.41 is also available.


Consequently, they don’t seem to be in a rush to offer a wide variety of the 440XL, which is a shame as it’s a superb design. My suspicion is that the range will get expanded as the design is still relatively new.

The 6 point / toothed 441 is available in a slightly greater range of sizes, but like yourself I prefer the regular wrenches for most uses.

Andres26tnt above, says the larger sizes are only in Mac, which isn’t surprising.

I don’t think there’s anything by USAG, but things are sometimes overlooked on their website.

 

[f121]

Just in case any of our U.S. readers are thinking that there’s too much enthusiasm for these “foreign” tools, and wondering why we don’t just get Snap On, I’ll post the following.

A Snap On 24mm wrench currently costs nearly £100 in the U.K.


A Facom 440 costs less than £15…


Don’t get me wrong, I love Snap On tools, and I think the wrenches are about the best out there.

But… the prices have shot up over the last few years. Although I have a good number of Snap On wrenches, they were purchased at vastly reduced prices compared to today, and I doubt I would have purchased so many at the current price.

Even if money was no object, do I want to be working on some rusty fastener with a £100 wrench? Maybe dropping it on some concrete?

It’s a very different story with a £15 wrench. Especially if that wrench is a pleasure to use and still feels like a top quality item.

I’ll go beyond that, I think the 440s are better wrench’s.

I’m lucky enough to own both SO Flank Drive+ in 10-25mm and a set of 440s. The SO are lovely wrench’s, I’ve wanted a set since I was an apprentice in my teens and treated myself for a birthday present in my 30s. The 440s were an impulse buy because the holder looked handy - it turns out the differences between a 440 and a regular pattern wrench - the slight angle at the jaw end, the semi-box design at the ring end, the weight, how they feel in the hand - all add up to making a wrench that’s better to use.

Not going to sell my SO anytime soon, but if they were all stolen tomorrow, I would replace the SO with Facom.

 

[Dave455]

A little while back, I think we decided we’d post any French tools of interest here.

I’ve always quite liked the French style “angled socket wrench”. Not something you would perhaps want to use widely in automotive work, but I find them useful when I don’t want to carry small parts. I chuck a 10mm in my pocket if I’m switching vehicle batteries, or suchlike.

Although I have quite a few Facom, I also quite like the SAM version. They’re a different design to the Facom, so I thought I’d try a couple.

The finish is lovely, a high polished chrome. More so than Facom, though I have no complaints about the latter. Very nicely forged too.



The off corner engagement is more pronounced than Facom.


And these are made in France. You have to be careful though, as not everything SAM offer is.

U.K. readers can obtain a lot of the SAM line through Radio Spares.

 

[Hannahranga]

Mind taking a photo looking up the other socket end? They look quite interesting cos work very commonly requires a 13mm. But ideally it'd be hollow shaft

 

[KnurledNut]

The problem you have with Facom, and I think largely with USAG, is the variety of patterns on offer.

Facom replaced their classic No.40 wrench with the 440, and it’s available in just about every size from 4 to 41mm, possibly some others.

The issue for Facom is that their standard long pattern wrench is the No.40LA, which is available from 19mm.


The short pattern, No.39, is available in the smaller sizes.


And the offset (and slightly longer ) No.41 is also available.


Consequently, they don’t seem to be in a rush to offer a wide variety of the 440XL, which is a shame as it’s a superb design. My suspicion is that the range will get expanded as the design is still relatively new.

The 6 point / toothed 441 is available in a slightly greater range of sizes, but like yourself I prefer the regular wrenches for most uses.

Andres26tnt above, says the larger sizes are only in Mac, which isn’t surprising.

I don’t think there’s anything by USAG, but things are sometimes overlooked on their website.

The 40LA I introduced you to upon starting this thread is an extra long pattern, longer than the typical long pattern. More of a specialty wrench. USAG offers this same style wrench. The open end is a little beefy, but seems suited to the intended use.

 

[four.cycle]

French style “angled socket wrench”

I was intrigued by this design - it's come up here several times before - and I found a set that was just too good to pass up, and purchased two sets of "Duratech" angled socket wrenches manufactured in Zhejiang, China. My set is still in the roll-up, in the box, very much un-used.
The other set went to @Chrome Vanadium Cody at Christmas, but he seems to have fallen off the planet, so I don't know how they worked out for him (or if he ever got them!)
Fit and finish appear to be pretty good. Price was crazy cheap for this many pieces - well worth the price of admission.

Zhejiang / Zhejiang Yiyang Tool Mfg. Co. Ltd., No 68 Guangming Rd., Xiao Nanhai, Longyou, Zhejiang, China 324404 / http://www.ironduketools.com/ / http://www.yiyangtools.com/ / "Duratech" "Ironduke" /

 

[Etchase]

FACOM France on Instagram: "Chez FACOM, l’exigence est une priorité, et cela passe par des tests produits rigoureux ! Pinces, tournevis, clés mâles… chaque outil est conçu pour résister aux conditions les plus extrêmes et subir des essais intensifs,

532 likes, 7 comments - facom_fr on May 12, 2025: "Chez FACOM, l’exigence est une priorité, et cela passe par des tests produits rigoureux ! Pinces, tournevis, clés mâles… chaque outil est conçu pour résister aux conditions les plus extrêmes et subir des essais intensifs, garantissant ainsi une...

www.instagram.com

Different approach to social media marketing for Facom compared to Stanley’s other brands.

 

[Etchase]

My first OGV. Very nice finish.

 

[KnurledNut]

Did Facom ever make a dedicated “tommy bar set” for use with these angle open socket wrenches?
Seems like since thats half the function of them, appropriate tooling would be beneficial.

 

[Dave455]

Did Facom ever make a dedicated “tommy bar set” for use with these angle open socket wrenches?
Seems like since thats half the function of them, appropriate tooling would be beneficial.

Not that I’m aware of.

Facom tend to offer stepped tommy bars, rather than tommy bar sets.

These below each fit a variety of wrenches


Such as the No. 97 box wrench.


But I’m not aware of anything specifically for the No.75 / 76 wrenches.

By their nature, the through hole is a clearance on a standard metric size, so if you’ve got a 10mm wrench, it will take 6mm bar.

Knowing how these things tend to be used, I suspect a screwdriver is employed in the majority of cases - bad practice or not!

 

[Dave455]

Mind taking a photo looking up the other socket end? They look quite interesting cos work very commonly requires a 13mm. But ideally it'd be hollow shaft

Here you go.

It’s a 17mm for ease of photographing, but the proportions of the 13 are comparable.

They don’t have a hollow shaft, the handles are solid. They have a clearance, similar to a deep socket.



The back of the pencil shows how far the clearance extends.

 

[Qualitytools]

^ Thanks for sharing.

 

[Hannahranga]

Here you go.

Awesome, thanks for that

 

[autobon7]

Not that I’m aware of.

Facom tend to offer stepped tommy bars, rather than tommy bar sets.

These below each fit a variety of wrenches


Such as the No. 97 box wrench.


But I’m not aware of anything specifically for the No.75 / 76 wrenches.

By their nature, the through hole is a clearance on a standard metric size, so if you’ve got a 10mm wrench, it will take 6mm bar.

Knowing how these things tend to be used, I suspect a screwdriver is employed in the majority of cases - bad practice or not!

What would be a common use for the double ended box wrenches?

​

 

[Samuel D]

What would be a common use for the double ended box wrenches?

To a French person, that’s a bit like asking an American, “What would be a common use for a combination wrench?”

For whatever historical reasons, these clés à pipe are in widespread general use in France, from technicians fixing traffic lights to apartment dwellers with a shoebox of motley tools.

Their obvious merits are hand comfort, speed of fastener removal using the long end of the tool on the fastener, high strength, the access advantages of a socket, and the flexibility of a short handle that can easily be extended with a bar or even a pipe (in dirty practice).

Their downsides are high weight, high cost, and no ability to grab a fastener from the side like an open-ended spanner can do. But since 90% of non-technical people misuse open-ended spanners, defaulting to them when there is no access problem requiring their use, maybe that last restraint is a good thing more often than not. For example, it is scarcely believable how many YouTube bicycle enthusiasts use open-ended spanners on the axle nuts holding a bicycle wheel in place, despite that nut having perfect access for a ring spanner or socket wrench. Consequently, used bicycles very commonly have mangled axle nuts.

 

[Dave455]

What would be a common use for the double ended box wrenches?

​

Historically, they were used because they were cheaper and simpler than a socket / extension / ratchet. Less parts too, but relatively quick to use. In the U.K. they were used a lot in areas such as aircraft assembly, and also electronic work when components were bolted to a baseplate.

Today, the conventional tubular box wrench is less common, but the forged box wrench‘s with the hexagonal body are very high quality tools and nice to use.

There are some jobs where these, and only these, will work. I remember stripping a lathe once, and the only way you could remove the leadscrew was to slide one of these all the way along it to release the (recessed) nut clamping it in place. Had to be the hex body type too, as you couldn’t pass a tommy bar through.

 

[F-22]

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

It was suggested to me by @Squankum in the arrivals thread that I cross post here.

These are for my go-toolbox so I opted for the 10 piece wrench set rather than the 14 piece. The 15mm is omitted.

The ratchets are accompanied by 6-point sockets, wobble bars and universal joints from Beta, and extensions from Stahlwille. I did not see an advantage from Facom on those parts to justify the higher prices, although I didn't see them in person. Originally got extensions from Beta too but they had a lot of play so I swapped them for Stahlwille at pretty much the same price which are much tighter.

I did look at the DBOX sets, however I wanted the push-button ratchet but that set comes with the extensions that have bulky locking release collars, and the extension lengths (5" and 10") weren't what I wanted. I did like the space efficiency of the case, but they'd be decanted into a toolbox anyway.

---

Recent Facom arrivals, my first. Big upgrades from what I had.

440.JP10 8 - 19 mm Combination Wrench Set With Holder (10 pc.)
These are particularly lovely.


JL.171 3/8" Pear-Head Push-Lock Ratchet
RL.171 1/4" Pear-Head Push-Lock Ratchet


J.120A 3/8" Sliding Tee Handle
R.120A 1/4" Sliding Tee Handle
The centre pieces are spring loaded so stay put when used as a T handle, which is what the small one will likely be used as coupled with an extension or drive-through spinner handle.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Unusual wrenches have caught my attention recently, so I decided to have a detailed look at them by numbers, specifically Facom because they list detailed data.

66A Hinged Socket Wrench

1. They're ~30% longer than the equivalent 440 combi wrench (by average of the two sizes), when measured with one socket end rotated 90 degrees and the other straight.
2. They're 2.2-2.5x the weight of the equivalent 440, this is 60g more at 10x11 or 203g at 16x17mm.
3. There are 3 handle lengths across the size range: 156mm (8x9, 10x11), 190mm (10x13, 12x13), 231mm (14x15, 16x17, 18x19).
4. The 10x13 special size is nice to see, and perhaps a versatile single to buy to give them a try.
5. Other brands offer much bigger sizes (e.g. the 1kg Beta 80 30x32).

76 Angled Socket Wrench

1. They're ~10% shorter than the equivalent 440.
2. They're ~2.4x the weight of the equivalent 440, this is 55g more at 10mm or 260g at 19mm.
3. Other brands offer much bigger sizes (e.g. the 1.8kg Beta 932/933/937 32mm).

 

[Samuel D]

[The 66A are] 2.2-2.5x the weight of the equivalent 440, this is 60g more at 10x11 or 203g at 16x17mm.

But each 66A covers two sizes. So the weight penalty is not much in the end.

The 10x13 special size is nice to see, and perhaps a versatile single to buy to give them a try.

Agreed. I’d like to see more of this creativity in sizing from manufacturers. It used to be more common but is on the way out, probably because the profusion of standards means more sizes are needed than in the past.

Other brands offer much bigger sizes (e.g. the 1.8kg Beta 932/933/937 32mm).

Did you miss the Facom 76.36 (36 mm)? It’s 370 mm long (not long enough, probably) and weighs 1.7 kg according to Facom. There’s also a 32 mm model.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

But each 66A covers two sizes. So the weight penalty is not much in the end.

Indeed for transport, but I was more thinking about feeling in the hand.

Your point also applies to the price.

Agreed. I’d like to see more of this creativity in sizing from manufacturers. It used to be more common but is on the way out, probably because the profusion of standards means more sizes are needed than in the past.

I also liked these from other brands:

1. Bahco 4040M also does a 10x13.
2. Beta 80 in 8x10 and 13x17 - covers most standards in just two wrenches, however for the latter the handle length may not be optimal.
3. Stahlwille 429 in 16x17 & 18x19, or 16x18 & 17x19 - you choose whether to have one wrench per thread size in all standards, or to have each wrench be more versatile by covering two thread sizes in one/two standards.

Did you miss the Facom 76.36 (36 mm)?

Ah yes, I stand corrected. I stopped my spreadsheet at 19mm since I was comparing with the 66A, but forgot when writing up.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

The second and final part of a detailed look at wrenches - what's the reasoning for the different skipped sizes in the 440 sets? The reasons for skips of individual sizes has been well discussed, but I wanted to understand in context of a whole set. Almost everything skips 9mm and this has been well discussed so I won't comment on that.


440.J6PB - 7-17mm in 6 wrenches, skipping 9-12-14-15-16. These are JIS M8-10 and ISO M10.
Mininal retail oriented set, the only one that comes in a retail cardboard box (I think the "PB" suffix designation is the same as Knipex's "SB"). At my online retailer it's slightly more expensive than the JP8 which has 2 extra wrenches and the JP folding holder.


440.JN8 - 8-24mm in 8 wrenches, skipping 9-12-14-15-16-18-20-21-23. These are JIS M8-10, ISO M10-12-14, and non-standard 15-20-23mm.
A wide range in few wrenches. This is the only JN set and comes either loose (like the JE) or in a tool roll (JN8T).

440.JE9 - 8-19mm in 9 wrenches, skipping 15-16-18. These are ISO M10 & M12, and non-standard 15mm.
Includes a 9mm.

440.JE11 - 7-19mm in 11 wrenches, skipping 9-15. This is the non-standard 15mm.
Includes a 7mm (for M4) so it covers all the standards, but drops the 9mm compared to the JE9.


440.JP8 - 8-19mm in 8 wrenches, skipping 9-15-16-18. These are ISO M10 & M12, and non-standard 15mm.
Perhaps for those that don't work on European cars.

440.JP10 - 8-19mm in 10 wrenches, skipping 9-15. This is the non-standard 15mm.
Covers all the standards. This is the one I chose in the end.

440.JP12A - 7-19mm in 12 wrenches, skipping 9mm only.

I didn't look at the larger sets.

I did also look at the Beta 42 9-piece sets, which interestingly has clear geographic variants. The international 42/SC9I variant skips 16 & 18, while the European 42/SC9E variant skips 14 & 15. Neither of those appealed, as I have equipment from all over the world.

 

[Dave455]

Unusual wrenches have caught my attention recently, so I decided to have a detailed look at them by numbers, specifically Facom because they list detailed data.

66A Hinged Socket Wrench

1. They're ~30% longer than the equivalent 440 combi wrench (by average of the two sizes), when measured with one socket end rotated 90 degrees and the other straight.
2. They're 2.2-2.5x the weight of the equivalent 440, this is 60g more at 10x11 or 203g at 16x17mm.
3. There are 3 handle lengths across the size range: 156mm (8x9, 10x11), 190mm (10x13, 12x13), 231mm (14x15, 16x17, 18x19).
4. The 10x13 special size is nice to see, and perhaps a versatile single to buy to give them a try.
5. Other brands offer much bigger sizes (e.g. the 1kg Beta 80 30x32).

76 Angled Socket Wrench

1. They're ~10% shorter than the equivalent 440.
2. They're ~2.4x the weight of the equivalent 440, this is 55g more at 10mm or 260g at 19mm.
3. Other brands offer much bigger sizes (e.g. the 1.8kg Beta 932/933/937 32mm).

You’re looking in the right place for the less common wrenches.

Facom offer a far greater range of different patterns than, for example, the German manufacturers. I think they probably offer more than Snap On.

A quick glance at what’s available reveals the following, though I’ve almost certainly missed some -

22 Midget open end
31 Slim open end
34 Offset midget open end
39 Short combination
40/440 Combination
40L/440XL Long combination
41 Offset combination
42 Flare nut
43 Flanged flare nut
44 Open end
55 Ring / box end
56 Short ring / box end
57 Obstruction
59 Flat ring / box end
59L Long flat ring
59TX Torx
66 Hinged offset
70 Ratcheting flare
75 Angled box
76 Bi hex angled box
91 Box
92 Offset box
97 Forged box

I’ve used or own a lot of these, and I consider many to be among the best examples of their type.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Further to the above, some side by side comparisons for scale.

13 - 10x13 - 13


10x13 - 13 - 10

 

[Etchase]

NOS in a damaged box 516, with the articulating jaw. These early versions had the backward release lever. I’ll suffer with it. These 500 series are the pinnacle.

 

[Phang]

bought a 500A recently, impressed by the functionality and build quality

it breeds if you keep it alone in a dark drawer

 

[Qualitytools]

bought a 500A recently, impressed by the functionality and build quality

it breeds if you keep it alone in a dark drawer

They look great!

 

[Phang]

They look great!

thanks, I was wondering if all five can be kept inside this bag

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

thanks, I was wondering if all five can be kept inside this bag

Only if accompanied by a set of 75/76 Cles a pipe wrenches, some onions, and a baguette.

 

[Qualitytools]

Only if accompanied by a set of 75/76 Cles a pipe wrenches, some onions, and a baguette.

Love it!

 

[Qualitytools]

thanks, I was wondering if all five can be kept inside this bag

Beautiful looking bag.

 

[Phang]

Beautiful looking bag.

yes, they are well made and well finished, leather is thick and stiff, I have the bigger 3 buckles version too, which came with a shoulder strap

 

[Pexto]

"Scars, natural marks, and variations in color are inherent to leather and underline its beauty. They attest to the purity of the hide."

Although I'm a bit surprised to see a couple of misspellings in there.

 

[Phang]

"Scars, natural marks, and variations in color are inherent to leather and underline it's beauty. They attest to the purity of the hide."

Although I'm a bit surprised to see a couple of misspellings in there.

I found this note inside both of the bags, when I first open it

the two bags I got are flawless, no scars, no marks, no variation in colour, good enough to carry as a handbag for the ladies

 

[Pexto]

I found this note inside both of the bags, when I first open it

the two bags I got are flawless, no scars, no marks, no variation in colour, good enough to carry as a handbag for the ladies

They look beautiful! And I'm sure that with age they'll acquire a lovely patina.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

yes, they are well made and well finished, leather is thick and stiff, I have the bigger 3 buckles version too, which came with a shoulder strap

Really, what practical modern day use do these bags have?

The inconvenience of those buckles, for starters.

Also, dimensions for anyone's interest - BV.100 is 35x10x10cm, and the 703232 is 40.5x14.5x12.5cm.

 

[Phang]

Really, what practical modern day use do these bags have?

The inconvenience of those buckles, for starters.

Also, dimensions for anyone's interest - BV.100 is 35x10x10cm, and the 703232 is 40.5x14.5x12.5cm.

yes, those buckles are stiff and fiddly

it is not the best bag if you need to buckle and unbuckle a few times in a day

but it is a nice tool bag for car, especially classic cars

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Anyone with the combination pliers able to help me out with some jaw measurements please?

185mm (187A.18G or 187A.18CPE), jaw length (spec) 36mm.
205mm (187A.20G or 187A.20CPE), jaw length (spec) 42mm.

I'm interested in the length of the frontal gripping area and the cutting blade.

For comparison, the Knipex 02 02 180 I've received has a 32mm jaw, of which the gripping area is 7mm (too short in my opinion) and the cutter 16mm. I'll be returning it for a differently sized/proportioned combination plier, or a linesman.

 

[Dave455]

Really, what practical modern day use do these bags have?

The inconvenience of those buckles, for starters.

Also, dimensions for anyone's interest - BV.100 is 35x10x10cm, and the 703232 is 40.5x14.5x12.5cm.

Historically, certainly in the U.K, these leather bags were quite common.

They work quite well in some situations, especially if used with tool rolls. You can pack the thing out with tools, then pack it in a vehicle. The tools won’t damage each other, and the bag won’t damage the vehicle.

The British army even used to issue these, strongly constructed leather tool bags, for that purpose. My Dad owned one that rode around in the back of his car, certainly well into the 1980’s.


The Facom bags seem to be made of decent materials, but the longer version with the ******** the end

is a better design than the smaller one, that puts all the weight of the bag on the lid buckles.


There are many similar bags available in the U.K. but like the small Facom, many seem to have slight design flaws.


Note how, in the British army bag, the handles are connected directly to the straps, which go right under the bag to take the weight.

 

[Phang]

I feel obligated to take a couple extra pics of the bags

the smaller one



bigger one with shoulder strap