The HEXtension

[ugotd8]

I'm a wanna-be tool nerd, but... I want one of these... yesterday!

Great idea, congrats! I Hope you make millions.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Thanks for the support guys. We stayed up late last night to get a new website cleaned up and will be live this evening. I also have some updated pictures of the tool on the CNC.

Please continue to forward any requests for notification to the PM list. I haven't been able to respond to everyone, but those who are on the list will be the first to know.

 

[Cigar50]

I love it. I'm in for one if the price isn't totally ricockulous. I'm in for two if you also make a wobble version later on.


Don't let this crowd of nattering negative nitpickers get you down.


One advantage I haven't seen mentioned is those times when you need to apply even torque to something.

Normally, you have to somehow compensate for a side load when you use an extension. Sometimes this is very difficult when you can't get both hands in there. And sometimes there are issues with the fastener (stuck, damaged, etc.) that require you to be somewhat gentle.

What you could do with this is stick a wrench on the hex at 180 degrees from your ratchet, basically creating a giant t-handle -- one where you could adjust the angles and placement up and down the shaft as needed to clear obstructions as it turns.

If a black oxide finish helps keep the price down, fine with me. Maybe paint a stripe on it so it's clearer it's not impact rated. Despite the howls of the tool polishers, chrome doesn't really work on things with sharp edges like this anyway. Some sort of plated finish would be fine with me. And be proud of the tooling marks -- no need to polish them off.

THIS bwringer is (to me) obviously some sort of wrench turner.

To some extent I feel like I'm wasting my first post jumping into what is becoming another tool snob thread. (Also probably pis$$ing off a fair number of senior members, to whom I apologize.) But I'm an old fart and have been wrenching on my own cars for over 50yrs. I have my share of tool truck tools but I also, OMG, have China and Taiwan made.

If you've spent time on your back, with your nose up against the exhaust header you can probably see a use for this tool. Or trying to figure how to get a #7 or #8 plug without removing other components or cutting the cowl. If you haven't or only change your own oil, then the usefulness of this design probably seems foreign.

Again sorry for the rant as my first post, but honestly these guys have a novel idea and once you see it you wonder why it hasn't been done before. Guys good luck and success and I sent you a PM.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Again sorry for the rant as my first post, but honestly these guys have a novel idea and once you see it you wonder why it hasn't been done before. Guys good luck and success and I sent you a PM.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the PM. We are all wrenchers at some point. I know I had to turn wrenches to get my truck up and running one night before work. Without a vehicle I couldn't make a days pay.

And you hit the nail on the head (or socket on the nut) with on your back. We don't have lifts, and usually do work on 120 degree pavement. We wanted to make the tool that could fit situations where you just couldn't get other tools, while continuing to swear at the fastener just above your head.

 

[GarageMac]

Awesome idea. I hope it works out.

Any idea on a timeframe for availability? Doesn't really matter too much to me, as it doesn't solve a problem I have yet, but now that I've seen it, I'll come accross someplace where it would be nice to have. My luck.

 

[woodstockva]

Definitely keep us updated! I am excited to try one of these out & am definitely looking forward to making tool review on them once you have some available!

PM SENT!

 

[-Brent-]

Brent, I appreciate you airing your concerns, even if I think them a little forceful.

Please know, I support your and your partner's idea. I understand, 100%, that this item is your baby and you're both doing what you think is best to get the product to the people as well as put food on the table. I've got no issue there.

My comment came out of seeing people ask questions (mine included) that received indirect answers. That has nothing to do with the tool. To me, you guys represent this item so long as there aren't any in our hands. When it comes to small business, your integrity/behavior/actions/respectability will get you much farther than where your item is produced.

That said, you should have a price point long before your technology is sent to, or currently being produced by, the manufacturer. You may scare some folks away with what you think your item is worth. But, be assured, if they hear this tool is one of quality and usefulness, you'll peak their attention again. I read your comment grazing the price subject and that's what came to mind, "he's worried about what people will think."

That said, I'm not as unwavering on COO as some of the other fellas on the site. I respect it, though, and try my best to seek USA made items first. I'll be honest, though, I choose the the highest quality tools I can afford. Sometimes those tools aren't produced here in the states. I love Knipex quality and I have no issue with them sitting beside my Channellocks.

I get that there are smart, talented people around the globe, so I'm not going to judge you on your COO choice. But, if I sense that there's skittishness around around the admittance, I'm turned off by that and the motivation for it.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

I get that there are smart, talented people around the globe, so I'm not going to judge you on your COO choice. But, if I sense that there's skittishness around around the admittance, I'm turned off by that and the motivation for it.

Totally understandable, and I feel the same way.

We want to be more solid on the price for everyone, but this kind of exploded earlier than anticipated, so we're make sure we get all our ducks in a row so we can give accurate answers when we have them instead of speculating.

 

[-Brent-]

Totally understandable, and I feel the same way.

We want to be more solid on the price for everyone, but this kind of exploded earlier than anticipated, so we're make sure we get all our ducks in a row so we can give accurate answers when we have them instead of speculating.

Got it! Thanks!

I'd like to add, welcome to the Garage Journal. Ryan and the mods have done a bang-up job with the place. Plus, there are some really great folks here.

 

[rockjunkie]

Hi Shaun,
Awesome Idea. I'm interested to see where this goes. Have you considered starting a kickstarter.com project? Its a good way to build up capital for a production run and keep people informed.
-Kenny

 

[Tbirdtc]

I throw out all China Taiwan wrenches and ratchets I find w a few exceptions ie gear wrench
That being said if this winds up being a china tool I'd expect to see it in a foam block at auto zone for 6.99 on the counter for 6 months then never seen again

If it was a us made tool I can see spending $ on it and using it 4 times a year in a tight spot I refuse to bust my knuckles with garbage anymore

 

[Andrew_Logica]

Got it! Thanks!

I'd like to add, welcome to the Garage Journal. Ryan and the mods have done a bang-up job with the place. Plus, there are some really great folks here.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm really impressed with the place and want to look around some more. Everyone has been incredibly friendly.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

As Andrew said I am very impressed with this forum. All points good or bad are apreciated. Progress is just that, a process rather than a quick fix.

Added those interested in the tool via PM.

Again, very impressed by the conduct of those on this board. Thanks for the patience, trust me we are working very diligently on getting product ready.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

As Andrew said I am very impressed with this forum. All points good or bad are depreciated. Progress is just that, a process rather than a quick fix.

Added those interested in the tool via PM.

Again, very impressed by the conduct of those on this board. Thanks for the patience, trust me we are working very diligently on getting product ready.

Don't you mean "appreciated," buddy?

Shaun might not care about you as much as I do.

 

[3baygarage]

You guys had me at hello and lost me at COO.

At first I was under the impression these were to be made in USA for some reason.
Machining process mentioned and all.

The concept seems to be there with me, but rarely do I go for any hand tool COO China/Taiwan.

 

[Stephenw]

A breaker bar and an assortment of extensions in varying lengths should work anywhere.

I don't see a need for this tool.

 

[Andrew_Logica]

A breaker bar and an assortment of extensions in varying lengths should work anywhere.

I don't see a need for this tool.

If that picture in your sig is your garage, then no, you probably don't need the tool. We want to provide options for people while doing work, especially if it's in a home garage with limited space and resources. Thank you for the feedback, though.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Depending on price I might be in for the first batch, if they are more expensive then I'll have to save up for the second/consecutive batch(es).

I see plenty of areas this could be used. Especially if you have to do field maintenance!

And as you can already tell, having a thick skin is good on this board when you are a manufacturer or tool dealer! No brand or idea is immune to being shat upon, good or bad!

 

[Hantke]

I do appreciate the work, and ideas behind it all, and i have a soft spot for oddities in the tool world, so when you get a general price point, throw it up on the forum, i'm sure many others (including myself) will be much more obliged to make a pre-order if we know how much lighter we expect our wallets to be afterwards, or, just an idea, offer those who buy the over-seas version a discount or first rights to buy one made in america once you establish a customer base, also something i believe people would be interested in.
Thank you for your efforts, can't wait to see the finished product up for sale!

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Kudos to you guys for designing a solution to a problem. Innovation is still alive in America.

2 things as far as COO

1. As long as you make sure it's quality metal, high machining tolerances and nice final finish, you won't have a problem selling these for good money. QC every batch that comes in and never let the quality slip when your accounting department starts breathing down your neck about margins.

2. I care about US made tools, but guys please remember if we support US tool companies regardless of where they manufacture (as long as quality product and warranty), we are still supporting America as these companies will have to hire all kinds of staff domestically (sales, marketing, phone support, web design firms, print design firms).

Logica guys, keep it up!!!

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Thanks for the kudos guys. We know what it means to bring a product to the shores and what it means to have one made on the mainland.

Remember also we are focusing on a CNC job which requires very specific machining tools, especially when we are working with hardened steel. Like mentioned before HEXing something is easy if you mold, but you never get a good complete edge. It takes a quality CNC to really finish off the edges nicely.

I'm looking locally first (support AZ right here) then broader. Most companies begin and end with 6000 or 7000 series alu, because the demand for hardened steel is much less and far more difficult to work with.

We will keep you posted on the progress both here and on the site. New site to launch around 12 AM mountain time which will include a blog with CNC pics (really cool looking).

 

[A/FD705]

Shaun & Andrew,

If you are on your back on 120 degree pavement you must not work on your cars july-september here in Chandler. Those temps would be 150-175 on a 115-120 degree day. Lol.

I have worked in many areas of automotive repair and racing. I do see this item being usefull when needed. I sure could have used it a couple of weeks ago working on a Hyundai Elantra. I have short-cutted many jobs. This is the type of tool that could help one do that. Many flatrate techs could benifit from this if it helps them not remove that other part in the way. With that being said, it could sit in a toolbox unused for a very long time.

Coo: I am a firm believer that if it is quality and has a quality warranty, coo shouldn't matter. I own a lot of tools and most are from the tool trucks. I will buy hft stuff if I know I cant or wont ever break it, or it comes with a lifetime warranty. And with that said, I have only ever warrantied 2 hft tools. There will be those that argue the point or prefer one over the other. Prove how tough your product is and you will create an army of believers. Everything is based upon perception of quality.

Tool Design: Design is awesome. I would include the knurling people have asked about. I say this because the whole idea behind this tool is working on the unknown confined spaces. You don't know if there is room to grip the hex or not. They might be using it as a spinner as well as an extention. That is an extra bit of flexability for the tool and user to have.

Tool coating: I would not black oxide: Black oxide, as others have stated, is associated with impact tools. Chrome does not do werr with edges. I would do something similar to what some of my older snap-on has which is some sort of brushed finish or even some sort of jet-hot or hpc coating (Ceramic). Not for impact use should be stamped on it as well.

Price: Price should be known before you ever set production into movement. Manufacturing costs, Shipping, Packaging, etc... all needs to be factored before you can determine if it is a worthwile project. How many pieces in your inital production run?

I am in Chandler and would love to see them before you release them.

 

[offroadsteve]

First off I think its a cool idea and applaude you guys for taking the leap and putting something out there. I agree that its great to have an American company making tools, even if the machining is accomplished overseas, you still control specifications and QA.

This is way in the weeds, and if you don't want to share that's totally fine, but what kind of heat treatment process are you putting the HEXtensions through in the final machined condition? The base material is key, but that hardening step after machining is really where you get your "tool steel" properties that guys are going to need. Otherwise you're just going to get a lot of rounded-over corners.

You should be able to get 140-150 ksi yield and a Rockwell "C" between 40 & 50, which will make them super tough. Any good heat-treat shop should be able to handle this stateside once you have your inital run back from machining. It would be a quick one-batch job they could throw in with something else they are doing at the same temps.

Best of luck no matter what!

 

[Bigplum]

Have the patents been checked out or lapsed ?

Plenty of old sockets sets were Hex or had hex drivers / extensions , I found these in two mins
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=193.0

Be a shame to get caught up in patent dispute with the big boys

 

[Hantke]

Have the patents been checked out or lapsed ?

Plenty of old sockets sets were Hex or had hex drivers / extensions , I found these in two mins
http://www.thegaragegazette.com/index.php?topic=193.0

Be a shame to get caught up in patent dispute with the big boys

I would bought that, looks like a handy kit to have on the road!!!
if you guys made a kit similar to that, you'd have a ton of purchases, but at what point is it copy-write infringement? maybe that's expired though.

 

[ducktapeguy]

I agree with almost everything that's been said, both the good and bad. It's great to see a new idea take shape, and I really hope you guys are successful. I think the design is really cool, I would probably buy one at $20 just because it's a novel idea. But to be completely honest, I'm not sure I see a real demand for this invention. The main question you have to answer is, what does your product do that can't already be accomplished with an existing product such as this set? I've seen it asked a couple of times already, and if you guys don't have a strong response to that question, it's gonna be a hard sell to other people.

I can think of maybe one or two specialty situations where your Hextension might work a little better, and even that really requires some imagination. One of the issues I see is you're somewhere in a gray area with respect to the target audience. If you want to sell to professionals who are willing to pay a higher price, they probably already have the right equipment where this tool would be redundant. If you are target the backyard mechanic, that group isn't going to pay a whole lot for what is essentially a very specialty product whose function could be accomlished with a standard extension.

I'm not trying to discourage you, but honest criticism is a lot more useful than 1000 empty atta-boys. It's great to hear that people are willing to pay $50 or even $100 for something like this, but the real proof is when the money has to be exchanged, all of a sudden you might find out people like to talk about the idea of owning expensive tools more than they like buying them.

 

[youngridge]

Depending on price, I would like to be in in the first batch, and I agree with that set above, I would love a unique set like that. I may not use this tool everyday, but if it saves my behind once, then it was a good investment, cant wait to see what you guys come up with!!!!!!

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Dont worry about the price being near $100, that's not going to happen. I wouldn't even buy one at that price LOL, wait unless you want to talk about prototype costs... never mind.

Our first batch is coming along well as per the manufacturer, and we are looking to distribute in sets to keep inventory issues to a minimum and we believe the designs compliment one another. These are not a quick turnaround because of the complexity in design and we are just getting started.

Thanks guys!

 

[nmantas]

I don't see any other products on your site. It was earlier referenced that you had already had a manufacturing contract out and I was wondering what other products you have developed? Thanks.

 

[rick carpenter]

Rick, I'm not sure which hex portion you're referring to. Or do you mean where your socket would fit on the end of the extension? Sorry, I'm trying to work websites, answer forum questions, and drink Scotch.

I'm talking about where the hex shank meets the square drive. Your's don't have the flared "collar" of my Plomb WF-17, they rely on the 6 hex points serving as the "collar" (which is why I'm suggesting making the hex shank as large as possible).

 

[Shaun_Logica]

I'm talking about where the hex shank meets the square drive. Your's don't have the flared "collar" of my Plomb WF-17, they rely on the 6 hex points serving as the "collar" (which is why I'm suggesting making the hex shank as large as possible).

A flared collar would prevent you from placing a 12mm box wrench or ratcheting wrench over the shaft. I like the retention but you lose alot of accessibility we were shooting for.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

I don't see any other products on your site. It was earlier referenced that you had already had a manufacturing contract out and I was wondering what other products you have developed? Thanks.

For now this is the first offering. We are looking into some other unique designs, but for now this has been our primary focus. Lots of time and effort go into each consideration, from napkin in a bar to prototype in your hand it takes some serious dedication.

 

[rick carpenter]

A flared collar would prevent you from placing a 12mm box wrench or ratcheting wrench over the shaft. I like the retention but you lose alot of accessibility we were shooting for.

Not suggesting you flare your collar at all.

 

[Outlawmws]

Brent, I appreciate you airing your concerns, even if I think them a little forceful. I can tell you honesty that we aren't attempting to hide anything; we're about as transparent as you can get, and I feel that being on these boards with nothing more than a prototype and ambition reflects that.

Honestly I didn't realize people wanted more detail than USA made or "overseas," but I am now reminded of British and German made tools and see the point, so in the interest of fairness I will clarify that our first run of tools are being machined in China. This was based on cost, turnaround time, and the fact that we had an existing contact at the plant in question.

I agree with those that think that "Made in China" can still offer a good product. Personally, remaining on top of QC really makes or breaks foreign made items, and our testing process ensures only correctly manufactured tools ship. Our QC is done in house in the USA so that I only send you tools that work.

I want to say thanks again for everyone giving their opinion. It's becoming very clear that the country of manufacture is a far larger concern for most people than price, and I respect that tremendously. Shaun and I will work hard to bring production here and offer a product that people will want to own and use.

1. Yes it DOES matter to a growing number of people, even if we are currently in the minority.

2. If made in Red China, I won't be interested at any price. Where there is any choice, I refuse to to do business with the largest slave state on the planet. period. Particularity since they are clearly waging economic war on this country on the backs of their own people. I have nothing against the Chinese as a people, their government is the problem.

If you MUST go overseas to start, go somewhere else; and there are plenty of places to chose from, even in Asia. Taiwan, S. Korea,,, do some research.

 

[bushmechanic]

As noted by my user name, most of my "repairs" happen in the middle of nowhere. I'm not a mechanic by trade, just a man who has to keep vehicles going no matter what sometimes.

I'm drooling over this damned thing. It would have saved me a lot of trouble in the past.

Hell, I'd drop a c-note if that's what it took to pick up the set, and the quality was there. So long as it can take a decent beating, this is the sort of thing that would find it's way into many overland tool kits, no matter how well stocked they are.

Taiwan I'd take, but I'd be a little frustrated with China. I do understand the value in initial runs overseas, but a focus on bringing production back here would be outstanding.

If it's too much trouble, pitch it to another manufacturer, such as S-K or Matco. Just take a piece of the action.

 

[Bigplum]

I would bought that, looks like a handy kit to have on the road!!!
if you guys made a kit similar to that, you'd have a ton of purchases, but at what point is it copy-write infringement? maybe that's expired though.

There's one on eBay now
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VTG-HEX-DRI...INDESTRO-DUROCHROME-COLLECTIBLE-/121307813234

And another one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/INDESTRO-Mfg-Co-11-pc-1-2-Drive-Hex-Socket-Wrench-Set-/121291769802

 

[Chuck122]

1. Yes it DOES matter to a growing number of people, even if we are currently in the minority.



2. If made in Red China, I won't be interested at any price. Where there is any choice, I refuse to to do business with the largest slave state on the planet. period. Particularity since they are clearly waging economic war on this country on the backs of their own people. I have nothing against the Chinese as a people, their government is the problem.



If you MUST go overseas to start, go somewhere else; and there are plenty of places to chose from, even in Asia. Taiwan, S. Korea,,, do some research.

That has to be the most intelligent COO argument I have ever heard on here. Congrats

 

[Andrew_Logica]

That has to be the most intelligent COO argument I have ever heard on here. Congrats

I respect the viewpoint, but Shaun and I are here to humbly sell a tool we think is neat, not to get involved in geopolitical discourse. We'll gladly answer questions about the tool, the design and construction, the quality, and the many uses provided. Beyond that, I can tell you that Shaun was on the phone with no less than 8 US manufacturers yesterday in an effort to bring production to our own shores. It's something that we personally think is right.

 

[Shaun_Logica]

Hey guys we are having some publishing errors with the new site that I am working out with the hosting provider. I will let you know the moment it's up with the new pictures.

Thanks guys.

Shaun

 

[Shaun_Logica]

I respect the viewpoint, but Shaun and I are here to humbly sell a tool we think is neat, not to get involved in geopolitical discourse. We'll gladly answer questions about the tool, the design and construction, the quality, and the many uses provided. Beyond that, I can tell you that Shaun was on the phone with no less than 8 US manufacturers yesterday in an effort to bring production to our own shores. It's something that we personally think is right.

Yep. Trust me we have interest from a number of companies, but not everyone has the capability to manufacture.

Thanks!

Also here is a picture because I don't want to hold if from you guys anymore. It's not finished but here you go... pre-heat treatment process.