larry4406
Well-known member
Nice clean solution!
The Machine Work Thread
- Thread starter Hephaestus29
- Start date
Nice clean solution!
whateg01
Well-known member
I'll start by saying I'm not knocking anybody for doing what makes them happy. I'm on a FB page for the Elegoo Mars 3D printer and people like to post pics of the stuff they make. It seems like 90% of what is posted are what they call minis, little figurines of game characters and the like. I like coming here and seeing functional parts, like what I make. This place makes me happy!
Dave
Dave
txvwnut
Well-known member
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Great solution Dan. One of the pocket doors in our Dynasty did the same thing years ago but I went a different direction and just made a slightly longer plunger or pin for the bottom so it wouldn't come out of the locking hole.
Hope you and the wife have been able to get out and enjoy that coach of yours a bit lately.
zmotorsports
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Very nice.
I like simple little projects like that where I can knock them out quickly and add the "kool" factor to it.
The real question is do 3D printers count as machine work? I use mine to make functional parts mostly
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Absolutely, it even has a name,
So instead of starting with a block of material and removing what is not necessary one builds up to the finished part.
lg
no neat sig line
ez-duzit
Well-known member
That is neither machining nor machine work, even though a machine does all the work.
I think industry disagrees with you. The shipyard here just hired 5 new “machinists” to run their 3D printers. Just like any CNC process, it is about setup of the machine and understanding precision measurement to make sure you are getting what you expected. If parts are not to spec, understanding the machine and material properties to get spec parts.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Baloney. Someone who operates a printer is not a machinist, not even one with quotes around it. Now you're talking about quality control.
So someone who operates a CNC machine is? What separates a machinist from a cnc operator or a printer operator?
lg
no neat sig line
ClappedOutBport
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 998
Sorry mate, history will end up disagreeing with you. Times are changing. Additive manufacturing will become a huge part of industry.
Personally, I don't see how a person who has set up a machine with:
- the right nozzles
- right metalpowder/plastic
- correct feeds
- correct nozzle and bed temperature
- correct cooling rates
- and with a specially designed toolpath
- the right tooling
- right raw material
- correct feeds and speeds
- correct tool coolant
- and with a specially designed toolpath
The only real difference is that one adds material and the other subtracts material. You don't just get to push a go button, there is still a lot going on.
I mean honestly, can we even call ourselves metalworkers if we don't forge?
The new machinist 3D printer operators are also IAM union members, so the real “machinists” except them too.
I think you are in the minority opinion. What in you opinion makes a machinist?
Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
Heck, I think using a DRO is cheating. I don't think a programmer wouldn't have much use for a file. And just because I was in the Teamsters union, doesn't mean I can drive a team of horses !
Language changes over time. At the turn of the last century, they weren't machinists they were mechanics. In fact, skilled tradesmen were all called mechanics. Old saw filing books refers to carpenters as mechanics, in praise sort of way.
Language changes over time. At the turn of the last century, they weren't machinists they were mechanics. In fact, skilled tradesmen were all called mechanics. Old saw filing books refers to carpenters as mechanics, in praise sort of way.
humpty
Well-known member
I agree with DWT2.
At my old shop either CNC or 3D printer, if all you were doing was pulling parts off and making minor adjustments you were an operator. If you programmed all day you were a programmer and if you did both you were a machinist.
I think it is all semantics. A machine is a machine. A trade is a trade. At some point the processes change but the trade is still there.
I was always called a mechanic even though I suppose a millwright would have been a better label. Heck even once I was a field engineer, even though I did not operate a steam engine or design a field.
humpty
At my old shop either CNC or 3D printer, if all you were doing was pulling parts off and making minor adjustments you were an operator. If you programmed all day you were a programmer and if you did both you were a machinist.
I think it is all semantics. A machine is a machine. A trade is a trade. At some point the processes change but the trade is still there.
I was always called a mechanic even though I suppose a millwright would have been a better label. Heck even once I was a field engineer, even though I did not operate a steam engine or design a field.
humpty
I would agree with HUMPTY. The job title will remain the same even though the work being done is changing. If you don't think this is correct, think about what a teamster was in the early days and what he is today.
Mike
Mike
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Much much more than simply pressing the "start" button on your 3D printer.
Toolmaker51
Well-known member
I've machined most every ferrous/ nonferrous metal imaginable; many plastics thermo-setting and otherwise, refractory materials [Maranite™,Transite™ etc] and some minerals. I've machine sewn tadpole insulation and furnace pads too. I inspect. I weld. I draft. I second-op metallic printed work. Never as a mere operator. I order and pay for tooling. My knowledge been tapped by degreed engineers stumped by what seemed easy to me. Never as a mere operator. You want to argue whether I'm a machinist?
There is a demarcation between operator and actual machinist. The machine before him is rather immaterial. Metal worker is an overarcing label; applying to welders, smelters, silversmiths or someone on the largest radial drill imaginable. Some add, reduce, or re-arrange.
To be fair; one setting up a conventional machine, who also can carry a part through from raw stock to finished article via different processes on various machines. Minimally he can, among numerous skills;draw, calibrate, lay out, repair, sharpen, sort out mistakes in prints, and conduct procedures in a logical order.
Far as to whether IAM or other body 'welcomes' a different job description; their interest is dues collection, not semantics or expertise. Fell in with them [#778] once, won't comment further on unionization.
Personally, I don't see how a person who has set up a machine with:
is any different from a guy behind a CNC mill with who has set up a machine with:
- the right nozzles
- right metalpowder/plastic
- correct feeds
- correct nozzle and bed temperature
- correct cooling rates
- and with a specially designed toolpath
- the right tooling
- right raw material
- correct feeds and speeds
- correct tool coolant
- and with a specially designed toolpath
I mean honestly, can we even call ourselves metalworkers if we don't forge?
There is a demarcation between operator and actual machinist. The machine before him is rather immaterial. Metal worker is an overarcing label; applying to welders, smelters, silversmiths or someone on the largest radial drill imaginable. Some add, reduce, or re-arrange.
To be fair; one setting up a conventional machine, who also can carry a part through from raw stock to finished article via different processes on various machines. Minimally he can, among numerous skills;draw, calibrate, lay out, repair, sharpen, sort out mistakes in prints, and conduct procedures in a logical order.
Far as to whether IAM or other body 'welcomes' a different job description; their interest is dues collection, not semantics or expertise. Fell in with them [#778] once, won't comment further on unionization.
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Other than the points in red, aren't all these skills needed for 3D printing? It petty much takes the same skills to get a good part from a 3D printer as it does from a CNC machine.
lg
no neat sig line
Ok I really didn’t mean to stir up such a discussion was just curious really if functional 3D printed parts would be welcomed here or not.
I do not see a huge difference between 3D printers and CNC these days as both are largely programmed via CAD models and a CAM program generating Gcode
There would be a difference between an operator who just feeds in material and takes out finished parts and a machinist who can trouble shoot and set things up properly from scratch
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I do not see a huge difference between 3D printers and CNC these days as both are largely programmed via CAD models and a CAM program generating Gcode
There would be a difference between an operator who just feeds in material and takes out finished parts and a machinist who can trouble shoot and set things up properly from scratch
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txvwnut
Well-known member
Many years ago I worked in a machine shop running a CNC lathe making bushings for F-16 landing gears and something on the Cobra heli, landing gear too I think. All I had to do was load raw stock and measure the parts as the machine spit them out at me and make corrections to programming to help out what was a very worn machine make acceptable parts. I never felt like I was a machinist since I was just standing by a glass door waiting for it open and hand me something. The closest thing I felt to being a machinist was when I picked up my calipers and checked the finished part to see if it was in spec or not.
Now when I stand behind one my own machines and make chips fly and pull a part out that looks like a pro made it and it works I feel closer to being a machinist but still don’t think I fully qualify as I’ve never had any formal classroom training, just what my dad has shown me and through trial and error.
So there’s an opinion from someone who’s been on both sides of the argument. I would love to have a CNC machine in my shop but it would mostly gather dust as what I’m machining 90% of the time is just as easy to do by hand and I don’t need a hundred or more repetitions.
Now when I stand behind one my own machines and make chips fly and pull a part out that looks like a pro made it and it works I feel closer to being a machinist but still don’t think I fully qualify as I’ve never had any formal classroom training, just what my dad has shown me and through trial and error.
So there’s an opinion from someone who’s been on both sides of the argument. I would love to have a CNC machine in my shop but it would mostly gather dust as what I’m machining 90% of the time is just as easy to do by hand and I don’t need a hundred or more repetitions.
They are and that is why industry thinks they need machinist to run 3D printers. I think Toolmaker and Ez-duzit are just old and don't appreciate change. I would be they look down at CNC machinist because they don't turn hand wheels.
I also think they don't understand the range and complexities of modern manufacturing 3D printing. We are not talking about Ender3 printing PLA in industrial environments. My personal favorites are continuous carbon fiber printing where for example they print entire helicopter bodies and laser sintering where the produce propellers that are physically impossible to machine and are more efficient and stronger then traditional cast bronze.
Since Ez-duzit doesn't know what a machinist is, I will share what I was taught 20 years ago by the master machinist I worked for. A machinist is someone who uses machines, their knowledge of how the machines work, and their knowledge of materials to create precise parts from raw materials.
Anyway back to the parts.
KBigg
Well-known member
I welcome it but then again im just some guy.
Disregard the negative comments, they're stuck in the 20th century.
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Downwindtracker 2
Well-known member
In some cases ,the early part.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Everybody gets a trophy. 
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Stainless sailboat rigging link 3/4" x 1-5/8" x 5". 1" hole, 5/8" pin.
Toolmaker51
Well-known member
Handwheels aren't what makes a machinist, nor a box full of tools. What matters is to process according to resources at hand.
Appreciation for new methods depends on part
Having always worked in job shops, with the endless variety, few had CNC at all, yet remain profitable businesses.
Again, it's using resources at hand. Old I might be but nobody suspects that's the case, ever. Nothing ticks me off more than "we've always done it that way". But they use cell phones, drive immaculate modern trucks, and PC's all over the place.
etc.
Three identical bearing blocks:
This fence carrier block has been kicking my @ss. It's like a T-nut with threaded holes on top as well as a threaded hole running the entire width. The first attempt (shown at the top) looks good with all the features but I went a few thou too deep on one of the slots - this will make it not sit flush.
So I had to scrap it and start over (cut a chunk of steel, machine it to dimension and then drill and thread)...it was going well
until the corn-cob endmill took a sudden bite...son of a #@$! I guess I got too greedy with my WOC at the DOC even though my feed rate was about half of what it should've been. So I guess it'll be take 3 next time
This fence carrier block has been kicking my @ss. It's like a T-nut with threaded holes on top as well as a threaded hole running the entire width. The first attempt (shown at the top) looks good with all the features but I went a few thou too deep on one of the slots - this will make it not sit flush.
So I had to scrap it and start over (cut a chunk of steel, machine it to dimension and then drill and thread)...it was going well
until the corn-cob endmill took a sudden bite...son of a #@$! I guess I got too greedy with my WOC at the DOC even though my feed rate was about half of what it should've been. So I guess it'll be take 3 next time
until the corn-cob endmill took a sudden bite...son of a #@$! I guess I got too greedy with my WOC at the DOC even though my feed rate was about half of what it should've been. So I guess it'll be take 3 next time
You climb milling there?
lg
no neat sig line
You're 100% correct. I was indeed climb milling as I often do due to the fact that it creates less strain on the machine and the cutter. After retracing my steps from last night, I was in the cut when I accidentally hit the key to reverse direction. The CNC software is configured to take up the backlash amount on directional changes and that's when the cutter took a big bite.
All the machined pieces drilled and tapped #6-32 into the 1/4" plate. These were not through holes so I used a plug tap. I highly recommend the YG1 spiral taps, they cut into this cold rolled 1018 plate like it was butter and evacuated curled chips like a drill bit.
This was the moment of truth for all the work so far because everything would need to line up to each other correctly.
This was the moment of truth for all the work so far because everything would need to line up to each other correctly.
BMW Rider
Well-known member
A little motorcycle project I completed. Took a few days of work since its all manual machining and I'm just an amatuer hobbyist at this. The shift lever on my new BWM F850GSA has an adjustable tip on it and I thought it would be better with a folding tip to reduce the chance of damage from rocks, tip overs etc. There are some aftermarket replacement levers, but why replace the entire lever when I can just make the folding tip and replace the original solid one.
It was a good excercise in some more challenging processes than I typically use.
It was a good excercise in some more challenging processes than I typically use.
Attachments
kazlx
Well-known member
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
Nice part, should work great for you.
I like the scales on top of your vise jaws.
kazlx
Well-known member
Anderson Serra Jaws. Great little setup. Basically bolts in to the same slot as Mitee Bite Talons. Makes it easy to locate stock for first op stuff, especially multiple parts and not have to set up hard stops.
Awesome work guys!! Love seeing practical projects becaue I've mostly been making tools for other tools to make more tools 
Anyway, continuing on with my tool grinding rest...
Leadscrews:
Threading the long leadscrew at 600 RPM by gripping the die stock- I don't recommend this btw...I had done things to make this as safe as possible.
and graduated dials, each line is .0013"
Anyway, continuing on with my tool grinding rest...
Leadscrews:
Threading the long leadscrew at 600 RPM by gripping the die stock- I don't recommend this btw...I had done things to make this as safe as possible.
and graduated dials, each line is .0013"
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OP
Hephaestus29
Well-known member
Especially NOT with gloves on.
Toolmaker51
Well-known member
Gloves in general, certainly not. Leather, fabric and thick rubber don't tear easily on protrusions/ corners/ burrs and pull hands into rotating parts.
stioc's use of surgical variety would limit that, given the die holder is smooth and cylindrical.
stioc's use of surgical variety would limit that, given the die holder is smooth and cylindrical.
Haha yep, as a general rule I never wear gloves or long sleeves when operating rotating tools, cut-off wheel on an angle grinder being about the only exception. The cheapy nitrile gloves are just to keep the oils off my hands, they rip apart even if I look at them wrong. I cut the major diameter of that rod slightly undersized so it didn't require a lot of torque at all...it was literally all done in about 3 seconds. Still I don't recommend it because...well do as I say not as I do
Removed the dykem and honed the sharp edges of all the parts. Ready for assembly!
Removed the dykem and honed the sharp edges of all the parts. Ready for assembly!
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