The Ratchet Collection Thread

[twertsy]

Ok, Hinsdale. I don't have a ton but what I do have are interesting. From top to bottom:

- 3/8" drive H-12-J Notice the "Duro-Like" face
- 3/8" drive H-12-J Notice the Bog patent number and distinctly Bog style
- 1/2" drive H-12-R This is an interesting ratchet I've not seen anywhere before. Notice the outline of the face plate. Looks like the Duro pear heads I posted earlier, as well as Plomb Proto but it is pressed in, not removable.
- 1/2" drive H-12-R Notice the "Duro-like" face

I am prepping and will begin S-K tomorrow.

 

[d42jeep]

Just to whet our appetite for the upcoming S-K ratchet post by Twertsy, here are a few of my S-K ratchets. These were always my favorites to use when I was wrenching on cars for a living in the late '70s and early '80s.
-Don

 

[twertsy]

Bear with me, S-K is going to take a while......
Theodore Rueb patented 11 different ratchet wrenches / mechanisms between 1933 and 1961. The ratchets need to be deconstructed in order to correctly identify which patent applies to each example. One issue with this method is that each Rueb mechanism design is architected such that every mechanism can fit into any ratchet body (as far as I've determined thus far). This means the ratchet body could be of a different era than the head.




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[twertsy]

These are the two earliest styles of S-K ratchets.

First, the pressed steel 1/2" hex drive Model 10570 - 1932-1933 (The reverse is stamped exactly the same as shown.)

Second, the 1/2" female non reversible. These ratchets were branded (at least) for Sears Fulton, S-K and Brazil. These two examples are unmarked and the example with the drive plug came in the Brazil set. They are unmarked and date from 1932-1934(ish)

 

[twertsy]

This is one of the most interesting finds I've had. I was lucky enough to purchase this from a GG member who originally found it and there is an extremely interesting discussion located at this link. This ratchet is based on Rueb's earliest patent #1981526. It is a very fine tooth design. Notice the lack of retaining ring also. This design is retained by the screw in the center of the reverse.

1/2" drive Model 42470 Patent Pending - The patent was applied for in 12/1933 and awarded 11/1934, placing this ratchet between those dates.

 

[twertsy]

Interestingly, these next 2 examples are stamped with the same patent as the previous ratchet, yet they are absolutely not even close to the same design. They both bear the patent stamp 1981526 but do not even remotely replicate the patent drawing. The mechanisms contained in these ratchets much more closely resemble the last two patents listed below. Remember I stated earlier that we could be "tricked" by mechanisms being replaced. However, the design laid out in the patent spec for 1981526 is completely incompatible with these mechanisms.

Rueb's next patent is #2082356 awarded 6/1937, for which I've never seen an example.
Following that is patent #2103556 awarded in 12/1937 which again, I've never seen one.
Next is patent #2174502 awarded in 9/1939 which yet again, I've never seen an example.
Next is patent #2188846 awarded in 1/1940. This is the design for S-K's 3/4" drive ratchets.
Next is patent #2202402 awarded 5/1940 and I have seen examples of this, yet I do not possess one. I refer you to AA for an example posted there.
Next is patent #2232477, likely the design many of you possess, awarded in 2/1941 and I will show examples of this patent in my next post.

From top to bottom:
- S-K branded 3/8 drive Model 45170 - If we base dating on the patent stamped on the shank, dated 1934 - 1950ish
- Western Giant branded 1/2" drive Model 4270 - same dating as above.

 

[twertsy]

These 3 ratchets are all stamped Patent Pending, and Model number 42470. They are based on "either" patent #2188846 or patent #2232477, meaning they can be no later than 2/1940.

 

[Username already in use]

These 3 ratchets are all stamped Patent Pending, and Model number 42470. They are based on "either" patent #2188846 or patent #2232477, meaning they can be no later than 2/1940.

It was my understanding that the oxide finished ratchets are dated to wartime production due to restrictions. I've got this black oxide ratchet marked patent pending. What are your thoughts for vintage on that guy?

 

[twertsy]

It was my understanding that the oxide finished ratchets are dated to wartime production due to restrictions. I've got this black oxide ratchet marked patent pending. What are your thoughts for vintage on that guy?

As stated above and as far as I'm concerned, the patent pending one would be pre 2/1940. It is of course possible that they had abundant left-over handles with "Pat. Pend." stamped on them that they shelled out to military customers. However, given that the patent had been in place for almost 2 years by that time, I tend to think that the oxide finished rats with the patent number stamped on them would be the correct version for your kits Jason.

 

[Derek420]

Nice collection I love the SK roto ratchets I have 1 that was my fathers and is one of my go to rats. I would like to get a tuff one version but have not yet found one. Mine is the regular in nos condition. I seen your videos on YouTube twertsy all I can say is wow. And no wonder I can't ever find anything or win an eBay auction you ****** it all up lol. I love the SK stack you have as I have never seen one. You have the most impressive garage & collection of tools. I'd love an old projectcar. Im only 28 and just started collecting maybe in 10 years I'll have a good collection.

 

[twertsy]

I wish to go back to this statement:

Next is patent #2188846 awarded in 1/1940 and again, I've never seen an example.

Raiderhillbilly PM'd me to let me know this patent applies to the 3/4" drive 47170. This example is "Patent Pending" and the head has been modified such that I cannot remove it. Perhaps someone could post a pic of the internals? Given this is stamped with the patent pending, I date this from 10/1938 - 01/1940.

 

[twertsy]

Here are several more examples of the patent #2232477. These are all likely post war to 1970ish.

From top to bottom:

- 3/8" drive Gamble's branded Model G8009
- 3/8" drive Kreauter branded Model 32070
- 1/2" drive Kreauter branded model 33070
- 1/2" drive Artisan branded Model 4270
- 1/2" drive S-K branded Model 4270
- 1/2" drive MAC branded Model V5R '46-60

 

[twertsy]

Here are several more examples of the patent #2232477. These are all likely 1941 to 1961ish and the acquisition of S-K by Symington-Wayne. Notice the access to the retaining ring on the bottom 3. We don't know when they transitioned to a full cutout, but those bottom 3 match the patent pending version with the enclosed access. We believe the S-K diamond era ended with the acquisition by Symington-Wayne. Given the finish, we believe the bottom example is wartime, the next 2 are slightly after the war, and the rest are likely 1950ish through 1961.

The 1/2" drive are Model 42470 and the 3/8" drive are Model 45170.

 

[twertsy]

Moving down the timeline, here are some S-K Wayne branded ratchets. As noted in my prior post, Symington-Wayne purchased S-K and Lectrolite in 1961. In 1967, Dresser Industries acquired S-K from Symington Wayne. Dresser continued to market the S-K Wayne line, operating them as a subsidiary until May of 1970, when they ceased using the S-K Wayne marking. These ratchets will therefore date from 1961ish to mid 1970. They are all stamped with the same patent number as the previous post.

 

[twertsy]

Here are some examples of the Model 3870 Roto-head ratchet. The bottom two are S-K Wayne branded and date from 61 to 70. The top two are S-K branded and date from 1970 forward. All are stamped with patent #2977824 applied for in 12/1958 and awarded 4/1961.

If anyone has one that has the patent pending stamp I'd bet it has an S-K triangle logo. Anyone have one?

 

[twertsy]

Here are two more later Rueb patents that again, I am unfamiliar with. As far as I know, I don't have, nor have I seen examples of either one.

First, Patent #2657604 applied for in 9/1952 and awarded 11/1953.

The second, Patent #2744432 filed 7/1954 and awarded 5/1956.

 

[raiderhillbilly]

View media item 65110

I wish to go back to this statement:

Next is patent #2188846 awarded in 1/1940 and again, I've never seen an example.

Raiderhillbilly PM'd me to let me know this patent applies to the 3/4" drive 47170. This example is "Patent Pending" and the head has been modified such that I cannot remove it. Perhaps someone could post a pic of the internals? Given this is stamped with the patent pending, I date this from 10/1938 - 01/1940.

 

[Username already in use]

As stated above and as far as I'm concerned, the patent pending one would be pre 2/1940. It is of course possible that they had abundant left-over handles with "Pat. Pend." stamped on them that they shelled out to military customers. However, given that the patent had been in place for almost 2 years by that time, I tend to think that the oxide finished rats with the patent number stamped on them would be the correct version for your kits Jason.

I tend to agree with you on that timeline, Todd. But, just in case, I've got them both!

Here's an early 1/2in drive SK made 4070 ratchet. Now lives with another member, but I saved the pic. Alloy Artifacts dates it to the mid 30's with a 28 tooth movement. Short lived because the 42470 was hot on it's heels.

 

[twertsy]

View media item 65110

Thanks Raider! As you can see in my pics, mine is welded shut.

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[Derek420]

Here are some examples of the Model 3870 Roto-head ratchet. The bottom two are S-K Wayne branded and date from 61 to 70. The top two are S-K branded and date from 1970 forward. All are stamped with patent #2977824 applied for in 12/1958 and awarded 4/1961.

If anyone has one that has the patent pending stamp I'd bet it has an S-K triangle logo. Anyone have one?

I have the patent pending one and yes triangle logo.

 

[chopper1]

These are the two earliest styles of S-K ratchets.
Second, the 1/2" female non reversible. These ratchets were branded (at least) for Sears Fulton, S-K and Brazil. These two examples are unmarked and the example with the drive plug came in the Brazil set. They are unmarked and date from 1932-1934(ish)

Todd I have another version of those two, unmarked. This one isn't mine, I can't find the pic on my computer. I assume that the they are all from the same time frame, but made for different customers.

 

[twertsy]

Todd I have another version of those two, unmarked. This one isn't mine, I can't find the pic on my computer. I assume that the they are all from the same time frame, but made for different customers.

Mike, I believe that's correct. Just differed in the knurling pattern.

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[twertsy]

Continuing on with S-K, these are the Frankenstein style rats from the '50's. There are no model numbers or patent stamps, simply S-K diamond logo and Made In U.S.A.

 

[twertsy]

This is an "S-K Tools" era 45170 3/8" drive ratchet based on patent #2232477. I estimate this to date from the Dresser era, mid-1970 to 1983, when S-K was purchased by the Corcoran Brothers and I believed markings changed to the simple "S-K."

 

[twertsy]

These are "S-K" era 45170 3/8" drive ratchet based on patent #2232477. These I believe would date from the '80s.

 

[twertsy]

Next we move in to modern era tools which admittedly, I am no expert in. I don't have the patents nor the timeframes for these. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable on recent offerings from S-K can chime in.

From Top to Bottom:

- S-K Palm Ratchet from a Caterpillar Tractor Co. award presentation set - Model #49270
- S-K 1/4" drive 40970 ratchets (x2)
- S-K 3/8" drive stubby handled ratchet Model #45174
- S-K 1/2" drive "Tuff-1" Model #42475

 

[twertsy]

Staying in Chicagoland, here are some Armstrong Bros. Tool examples. I do not collect Armstrong and thus, my examples and knowledge are sparse.

From Top to Bottom:

- 1/2" drive Model S-91 - I believe this dates from the 70's
- 1/2" drive Model SA-51 (x2) I believe these date from the 40's - early 50's.
- 1/4" drive Model M-51 "Hi-Tensile" - this is probably wartime (WWII)

In gathering things together to move to the Ohio manufacturers, I found the little 1/4" Armstrong and added it in.

Again, perhaps more knowledgeable folks can chime in with more info.

 

[raiderhillbilly]

All of the Tuff-1 ratchets are 1985-2005. Facom bought S-K then. The current Facom ratchets, Proto ratchets, King Tony, Mac and others have the Tuff-1 type internals.

Facom History:

http://www.facom.com/uk/our-brand/History-of-FACOM-1970-1990.html

Stanley tools bought Facom in 2005:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4d8e6342-...tml?ft_site=falcon&desktop=true#axzz4PtWGqL1E

 

[twertsy]

All of the Tuff-1 ratchets are 1985-2005. Facom bought S-K then. The current Facom ratchets, Proto ratchets, King Tony, Mac and others have the Tuff-1 type internals.

Facom History:

http://www.facom.com/uk/our-brand/History-of-FACOM-1970-1990.html

Stanley tools bought Facom in 2005:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4d8e6342-...tml?ft_site=falcon&desktop=true#axzz4PtWGqL1E

Thanks Raider!

 

[twertsy]

Ok, I am now going to try and tackle the Penens / Fleet examples.

However, I assert that we must first examine the history of the 2 brands/companies/entities. In this court order (bottom of page 2), the court lays out the history of the two entities. To summarize, Fleet Tool Corporation was incorporated in CA in 1942, the name was changed to Penens Corporation on 9/8/1943, Penens Tool Corporation was incorporated on 2/28/1956, and the name was changed back to Fleet Tool Corporation on 11/26/1963. All of these actions were done as subsidiaries to Plomb Tool Co. and/or Pendleton Tool Industries. Fleet Tool Corp lasted until at least 1977, which is the last reference to the company I have been able to track down. Also note that it is believed Plomb/Pendleton began applying the "Circle R" trademark symbol to all Proto and subsidiary produced tools after IR purchased them in early 1964. Lastly, I have found mention of the "Fleet Division" of Penens Tool Corp as early as May of 1962 in a copyright notice for a Fleet tool catalog.

From Top to Bottom:

- 1/2" drive Penens Corp. Model 1660 "Pat. Pend" - we have not discovered this patent yet. Probably dates from around 1962 - 1963.
- 1/4" drive Penens Corporation 1061 - likely late 40's to early 50's.
- 1/2" drive Penens Corporation 1661 - likely late 40's to early 50's. (x2)

 

[twertsy]

Next, here are some Fleet examples, from Top to Bottom:

- 1/4" drive Fleet Model 1060-1 - 1963-64 (No "circle R" trademark stamp)
- 3/8" drive Fleet Model 1260-2 - 1964 - 77 ("Circle R" present)
- 1/2" drive Fleet Model R-12 - Very interesting example because it also says Penens Corp. on the reverse head. In addition, it says "Pat. Pend" exactly like the round head from the previous post. Because it has both names, I am revising the dating on this and the ratchet in the last post to 1962 - 1963.
- 3/8" drive Fleet Model 1261 - 1964 - ("Circle R" present)
- 1/2" drive Fleet Model 1661 - dated late 1963? (x2)

 

[twertsy]

These Penens / Fleet examples were made for a number of private labels. Here are a couple examples, from Top to Bottom:

- 3/8" drive Fleet Model 1261 - I included this one in this post because it's marked backwards. Dated '62 -
- 3/8" drive Speed Master (x2)
- 3/8" drive Millers Falls Model 6092 - late 1960s on
- 3/8" drive Challenger Model 1261 - late 1950s to early 1960s.

 

[Oregon rock crusher]

Nice informative write up so far on ratchets twertsy. Wish I had something insightful to add but so far I'm just learning about some of these manufacturers. Thanks for taking the time. Ed.

 

[twertsy]

The final post under Penens/Fleet will focus on the Challenger brand, which started in about 1949 as a sub-brand to Penens, then Fleet as Penens went away in the early 1960s, then in the early 1970s they were marketed exclusively as "Challenger by Proto." Those advertisements cease in late 1998. There was a Challenger "oval head" in the previous post, which is the style advertisements show in 1949 and through the 1950s.

From Top to Bottom:

- 1/4" drive Model 1060 - ca. 1964 - 1970
- 3/8" drive Model 1260C marked Challenger Proto U.S.A. - likely 1990s
- 3/8" drive Model 1260 marked Challenger Proto - likely late 60's to 70's
- 1/2" drive Model 1660D with thumbwheel, marked Challenger Proto - likely 90s (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 1660 marked Challenger Proto - likely late 60's to 70's
- 1/2" drive Model 1660 - ca. 1964 - 1970
- 1/2" drive Model 1660 marked Penens Corp. (not Challenger) - this ratchet came in a complete Challenger 1/2" drive box set. The sockets are mixed, all marked Penens and about half are marked Challenger over the Penens stamp. I would date this to the late 1950s to 1963.

 

[raiderhillbilly]

Ok, I am now going to try and tackle the Penens / Fleet examples.

However, I assert that we must first examine the history of the 2 brands/companies/entities. In this court order (bottom of page 2), the court lays out the history of the two entities. To summarize, Fleet Tool Corporation was incorporated in CA in 1942, the name was changed to Penens Corporation on 9/8/1943, Penens Tool Corporation was incorporated on 2/28/1956, and the name was changed back to Fleet Tool Corporation on 11/26/1963. All of these actions were done as subsidiaries to Plomb Tool Co. and/or Pendleton Tool Industries. Fleet Tool Corp lasted until at least 1977, which is the last reference to the company I have been able to track down. Also note that it is believed Plomb/Pendleton began applying the "Circle R" trademark symbol to all Proto and subsidiary produced tools after IR purchased them in early 1964. Lastly, I have found mention of the "Fleet Division" of Penens Tool Corp as early as May of 1962 in a copyright notice for a Fleet tool catalog.

From Top to Bottom:

- 1/2" drive Penens Corp. Model 1660 "Pat. Pend" - we have not discovered this patent yet. Probably dates from around 1962 - 1963.
- 1/4" drive Penens Corporation 1061 - likely late 40's to early 50's.
- 1/2" drive Penens Corporation 1661 - likely late 40's to early 50's. (x2)

Any Chance of getting a look at the internals of the top pat pending ratchet?

 

[twertsy]

Yes, but I can't get to the shop until tomorrow.

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[twertsy]

Any Chance of getting a look at the internals of the top pat pending ratchet?

Oops, I did take a pic



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[Username already in use]

Whoa man
That Armstrong M-51 is really nice. The HI-TENSILE marking dates it to wartime.
Hard to find anything in my meager collection to add.
Along the same lines as the Fleet and Penens ratchets is the Tru-Test 1661 version. And a pic of a newer Challenger 1660+. Both 1/2in drive.

 

[twertsy]

Whoa man
That Armstrong M-51 is really nice. The HI-TENSILE marking dates it to wartime.
Hard to find anything in my meager collection to add.
Along the same lines as the Fleet and Penens ratchets is the Tru-Test 1661 version. And a pic of a newer Challenger 1660+. Both 1/2in drive.

Dang Jason, 2 I don't have........we'll have to work a deal.

 

[Username already in use]

Dang Jason, 2 I don't have........we'll have to work a deal.

Sure thing, Todd. Yesterday's flea trip was a bounty of ratchets. I usually don't find as many as I did. So, hopefully I'll have more to share as this thread progresses.
Here's an odd duck that I found yesterday. So unusual, I just couldn't leave it behind. Marked 'Harper-Wyman Company Hinsdale, Illinois'. Obviously built for a specific use. What got me was that it's reversible.