3baygarage
Well-known member
Twertsy - probably a typo but these ratchets are much later, 80's is what I have heard.
The Ratchet Collection Thread
- Thread starter twertsy
- Start date
Twertsy - probably a typo but these ratchets are much later, 80's is what I have heard.
woody 73
Well-known member
Here's another example of a Duro ratchet. I was surprised to see DURO on the selector when I picked it up. The Torx bit is non removable. I believe these ratchets are made to remove the targa top from the Corvette.
Very interesting I have never seen that tool before.
3baygarage
Well-known member
Yes. That era is referred to as the Peg-Pack era by some guys on GJ. You know, tools shrink wrapped on a card and hanging from a peghook in the parts store.
There are SK wrenches with that logo as well, the S•K diamond. They are much later than the old diamond logo.
chopper1
Member Emeritus
Cope
Well-known member
Here's another MAC X2R. Possibly made by Wright, possibly Bonney, Possibly Herbrand...
PowderKeg makes a strong case for this one being made by Wright in THIS thread.
I had an 18" 1/2" drive Herbrand ratchet for years. Head was like Proto, but the reversing lever looked exactly like yours.
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Right, that's what I thought as well. The 'bullet' style selector is quite similar. But the guts are very different.
Herbrand S-10
Mac on left, Herbrand on right:
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northwoods
Well-known member
Nice to see the MTF rats! I came home with a box yesterday with six MTF 1/2" sockets, a T bar, and a 10 1/4" extension with the revolving hand grip.
That Tru Fit stuff is really built. Quality steel.
Now I need to get a spinner?, some more sockets, and a ratchet.
I read that MTF made socket blanks for Snap-on. Would an old flat handle Snappy serve as a placeholder until I can find the real thing, you suppose?
That Tru Fit stuff is really built. Quality steel.
Now I need to get a spinner?, some more sockets, and a ratchet.
I read that MTF made socket blanks for Snap-on. Would an old flat handle Snappy serve as a placeholder until I can find the real thing, you suppose?
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Today I only have very limited time in the shop but I'll do a quick post on Herbrand, Fremont, OH.
Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive "Van-Chrome" Model M-5 circa mid-50's?
- 3/8" drive "Van-Chrome" Model J-5, likely mid-50's as well
- Ignore - An NB rat slipped into the pic
- 1/2" drive "Van-Chrome" Model S-5, likely mid-50's
- 1/2" drive Model S-10 (x2) - Top example is not marked Van-Chrome and is marked with the 8742 steel alloy on the shank // Bottom example is marked Van-Chrome" and the 1340 alloy on the shank. Both from the 40's
- 1/2" drive "Van-Chrome" Model S-10, I believe this is late 1930's due to the direction lever
- 3/4" drive "Van-Chrome" Model H-11, likely from the mid-50's
Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive "Van-Chrome" Model M-5 circa mid-50's?
- 3/8" drive "Van-Chrome" Model J-5, likely mid-50's as well
- Ignore - An NB rat slipped into the pic
- 1/2" drive "Van-Chrome" Model S-5, likely mid-50's
- 1/2" drive Model S-10 (x2) - Top example is not marked Van-Chrome and is marked with the 8742 steel alloy on the shank // Bottom example is marked Van-Chrome" and the 1340 alloy on the shank. Both from the 40's
- 1/2" drive "Van-Chrome" Model S-10, I believe this is late 1930's due to the direction lever
- 3/4" drive "Van-Chrome" Model H-11, likely from the mid-50's
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woody 73
Well-known member
Very nice Herbrand ratchets Strange thing because Herbrand does not get talked about too much on the GJ.
Strange thing because Herbrand does not get talked about too much on the GJ.woody 73
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Northwoods Hi could you please post a few pictures I would like very much to see them.
davethorik
Well-known member
I almost forgot I had this Tru-Test set until Twertsy mentioned the name earlier. The whole set looks new except the ratchet. Personally i think the plastic tray is ridiculous, the box measures 17-1/4"x 5-1/4"x 2" and is only 19 pcs in the set. Fac. No. T3720
3/8 ratchet, 1/4 spinner, 3/8 extension 3", 3/8 F to 1/4 M adapter, 7 1/4 drive sae 6 point sockets 3/16-3/8, 7 3/8 drive sae sockets 3/8 (6 pt) thru 3/4 (remainder 12 point), and a 3/8 drive 13/16 spark plug socket.
I like the box more than anything else, really.
Edit: looking closer at the set, QC was a little lacking. None of the 1/4 drive sockets have detents. Most of the 3/8 sockets do, except 7/16 and 11/16. The extension does not.
3/8 ratchet, 1/4 spinner, 3/8 extension 3", 3/8 F to 1/4 M adapter, 7 1/4 drive sae 6 point sockets 3/16-3/8, 7 3/8 drive sae sockets 3/8 (6 pt) thru 3/4 (remainder 12 point), and a 3/8 drive 13/16 spark plug socket.
I like the box more than anything else, really.
Edit: looking closer at the set, QC was a little lacking. None of the 1/4 drive sockets have detents. Most of the 3/8 sockets do, except 7/16 and 11/16. The extension does not.
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four.cycle
Well-known member
^ Excellent. Really nice set there.
Who was the OE on that? Penens? (wild guess)
I think you might find other manufacturers do that as well, and only machine the detents on the 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4" drive sockets.
Who was the OE on that? Penens? (wild guess)
davethorik said:
I think you might find other manufacturers do that as well, and only machine the detents on the 3/8", 1/2", and 3/4" drive sockets.
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four.cycle
Well-known member
^ Foreign made? I thought they were made in Orangeburg, South Carolina when Kelsey-Hayes bought them, and then moved operations up to Toronto?
Supposedly, according to an anecdotal snippet I found on this site, closing the plant somewhere around 2002 or 2004.
Maybe I should note, though, that none of the Triangle-logo marked stuff that I have (or have seen listed on Ebay) is marked with COO, although the Canadian-made stuff is clearly marked "Canada".
Supposedly, according to an anecdotal snippet I found on this site, closing the plant somewhere around 2002 or 2004.
Maybe I should note, though, that none of the Triangle-logo marked stuff that I have (or have seen listed on Ebay) is marked with COO, although the Canadian-made stuff is clearly marked "Canada".
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four.cycle
Well-known member
I own two (or three?) of those model 22000 1/4" drive Herbrand ratchets exactly like those in your photos above - marked with part number, "Herbrand", and the Triangle logo only.
So.... you think those were outsourced offshore? Or made in Canada?
Clearly they were manufacturing in Orangeburg, S.C. at some point (at least during the Kelsey Hayes era - Catalog No. 66 shows a photo of a huge manufacturing facility inside the front cover.)(Size chart on back page notes "Reprinted 6-66 Rad-Mar Press, Toledo, Oh.)
I've seen a lot of boxed sets listed on Ebay, and not one of them has COO on the tools - only "Orangeburg" and "Triangle" on the label inside the lid. Note the lack of any mention of COO on the labels:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERBRAND-US...513205?hash=item2ef78a04f5:g:7IcAAOSwZVlXtu91
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Her...:g:zXcAAOSwSdZWdeIh&item=161929544960&vxp=mtr
(And after digging that out, I am puzzled as to where Alloy-Artifacts came up with "Spartanburg", because I see no mention of it anywhere other than on his page.)
(* note corrections on my post above *)
So.... you think those were outsourced offshore? Or made in Canada?
Clearly they were manufacturing in Orangeburg, S.C. at some point (at least during the Kelsey Hayes era - Catalog No. 66 shows a photo of a huge manufacturing facility inside the front cover.)(Size chart on back page notes "Reprinted 6-66 Rad-Mar Press, Toledo, Oh.)
I've seen a lot of boxed sets listed on Ebay, and not one of them has COO on the tools - only "Orangeburg" and "Triangle" on the label inside the lid. Note the lack of any mention of COO on the labels:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HERBRAND-US...513205?hash=item2ef78a04f5:g:7IcAAOSwZVlXtu91
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Her...:g:zXcAAOSwSdZWdeIh&item=161929544960&vxp=mtr
(And after digging that out, I am puzzled as to where Alloy-Artifacts came up with "Spartanburg", because I see no mention of it anywhere other than on his page.)
(* note corrections on my post above *)
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r_olson_06
Well-known member
WRSL ratchets I think are harder to find than a craftsman BT version. Are those by chance the AA pair or did you find them in the wild?
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r_olson_06
Well-known member
Nice i have never seen one in the wild but I did pick up my first bog ratchet today. Will have to take a picture.
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zoomieport
Well-known member
Great Crafty collection Zoomie!
Today I'm going to take a jaunt out west before moving toward the East Coast. Today, I'll do Plomb, Thorsen and P&C. Hopefully Jabber and Stormking can help me out a bit with P&C as their collections are much broader than mine. I don't find much P&C around here.
Plomb began offering ratchets at least as early as 1925 (my earliest catalog shows a female drive DR8 ratchet)
Starting with the earliest in my collection of Plomb and representing the pre-WWII era, from Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4749 reversible ratchet, dated 1C - March 1941
- 3/8" drive "Los Angeles" Model 5251 female drive plug ratchet, dated 6G - July, 1936
- 1/2" drive "Los Angeles" Model 5451 female drive plug ratchet, dated 6F - June, 1936
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 reversible female drive plug ratchet, dated 1E - May, 1941
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Next we'll examine the "Paddle Handle" models, made for the Wright Field contract. The ratchets in this post bear no date coding information, but were made between 1941 and the end of 1946. This design did continue into the Proto era, which we will address in later postings but these are strictly WF stamped/forged examples, again 1941 to 1946. I believe these were all made in Chicago at the Penens facility.
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model WF-8
- 9/32" drive Model WF-8 (x2)
- 3/8" drive Model WF-21 (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model WF-38 (x2)
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model WF-8
- 9/32" drive Model WF-8 (x2)
- 3/8" drive Model WF-21 (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model WF-38 (x2)
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Here are some wartime examples in the traditional Plomb style.
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4751 "Miniature Ratchet." (x2) These ratchets are only 4" long. The top example has the "NR" code stamped into the shank which is thought to mean "No Return" or not warrantable. These 2 have no date code.
- 1/4" drive Model 4749, dated "EC" or May, 1943
- 3/8" drive Model 5249 (x3). The top example is stamped "War Finish" on the reverse and date coded "DC" or April, 1943. I should note that I've never seen a War Finish stamped Plomb tool with other than a C (1943) code. The next 5249 is date coded "AB" or January, 1942. This is the earliest letter coded tool I've seen. The last example is date coded "DB" or April, 1942.
- 1/2" drive Model WF-38. This example is based on the Bog Patent 1888885 by Ben Pepperdine of Bog Mfg.
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4751 "Miniature Ratchet." (x2) These ratchets are only 4" long. The top example has the "NR" code stamped into the shank which is thought to mean "No Return" or not warrantable. These 2 have no date code.
- 1/4" drive Model 4749, dated "EC" or May, 1943
- 3/8" drive Model 5249 (x3). The top example is stamped "War Finish" on the reverse and date coded "DC" or April, 1943. I should note that I've never seen a War Finish stamped Plomb tool with other than a C (1943) code. The next 5249 is date coded "AB" or January, 1942. This is the earliest letter coded tool I've seen. The last example is date coded "DB" or April, 1942.
- 1/2" drive Model WF-38. This example is based on the Bog Patent 1888885 by Ben Pepperdine of Bog Mfg.
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Next we'll review the famous Pebble handle design. The first 2 pictures represent the earliest, identified by "Made In U.S.A." forged into the pebble background. These date from mid-'45 to early '47. The second 2 pictures represent the time period of early 1947 to January, 1949, identified by the changeover to "Mfd. U.S.A."
Another trait I invite you to consider is the quality of machining. Notice how the earlier examples (Made In U.S.A.) faceplates fit into the ratchet body. They are precision fit. The later model (Mfd. U.S.A.) seem to be much looser and not as nicely fitting into the body.
Pics 1 and 2, top to bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4749 (x2)
- 3/8" drive Model 5249 (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 5449
- 3/4" drive Model 5649
Pics 3 and 4, top to bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4749
- 3/8" drive Model 5249 (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 (x2)
Another trait I invite you to consider is the quality of machining. Notice how the earlier examples (Made In U.S.A.) faceplates fit into the ratchet body. They are precision fit. The later model (Mfd. U.S.A.) seem to be much looser and not as nicely fitting into the body.
Pics 1 and 2, top to bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4749 (x2)
- 3/8" drive Model 5249 (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 5449
- 3/4" drive Model 5649
Pics 3 and 4, top to bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4749
- 3/8" drive Model 5249 (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 (x2)
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These ratchets represent the last of the Plomb era. Manufactured between January of 1949 and March of 1950, they are marked "Proto by Plomb Tool Co." As I understand it, people have seen 3/8" and 1/4" drive examples but I've never run across one...........anywhere.
From top to bottom:
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 (round handle model)
- 3/4" drive Model 5649 (Pebble Handle model)
From top to bottom:
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 (round handle model)
- 3/4" drive Model 5649 (Pebble Handle model)
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Plomb did in fact make ratchets for other brands. Examples here show the "Circle U" stamp on Craftsman branded ratchets. Plomb made these ratchets, presumably out of the Chicago Penens plant, from late 1943 to late 1948.
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive
- 3/8" drive
- 1/2" drive (x2)
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive
- 3/8" drive
- 1/2" drive (x2)
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Plomb (Penens) also made tools marketed and sold out of Firestone catalogs and stores. These tools span the late '40s to early '50s and follow the pebble design on the handle and the penens round/oval head. This happens to be one of my favorite designs.
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive (x2)
- 3/8" drive (x2)
- 1/2" drive (x7)
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive (x2)
- 3/8" drive (x2)
- 1/2" drive (x7)
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Next are what I believe to be examples of the earliest ratchets in the Proto era. Certainly the Pebble handles are early in the Proto era but the WF marked tools were made well into the 1950's and possibly longer. I don't know how long the pebble style was made after 1950 as my catalogs are not here in the shop. But based on how few there are I'd suggest it was no later than 1952ish.
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/2" drive Model WF-38 circa 1950's (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 circa early 1950's
- 3/4" drive Model 5649 circa early 1950's
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/2" drive Model WF-38 circa 1950's (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 circa early 1950's
- 3/4" drive Model 5649 circa early 1950's
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Next come the Proto Los Angeles era. This era extends from March of 1950 to the end of 1956. These are only marked on the removable (and replaceable) faceplate. Therefore, it is always possible that some people replace the faceplate on more modern examples to a Los Angeles marked faceplate, hoping to garner a higher price at sale.
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4749 (x4)
- 3/8" drive Model 5249 (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 (x3)
From Top to Bottom:
- 1/4" drive Model 4749 (x4)
- 3/8" drive Model 5249 (x2)
- 1/2" drive Model 5449 (x3)
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chopper1
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Sunset_Z28
Well-known member
I have a couple like that too and have wondered about them.
chopper1
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davethorik
Well-known member
Any idea why some of the Plvmb WF ratchets had opposite facing plumb bobs by the name?
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Here's a few pics of my PROTO WF-38 ratchet. The other side of the paddle has no marking. PROTO and WF38 U.S. on the head of the ratchet.
