Above 1200 Sq/FT The Warthog Hidey Hole
- Thread starter jbmatth
- Start date
Wokspaces above 1200 squarefeet.
mybigwarwagon
Well-known member
Well I hadn't spent enough money today so I decided to order a cam kit that includes just about everything I'll need:
Should be fun.
JB
Mines just a touch bigger in my Falcon.
Int/exh @ .50....221/225
Int/exh lift @ .50... .499/.510
Lobe separation... 112 (hydraulic roller/EFI)
Mine is 302 based 349 ci roller motor with the Holley Sniper tbi setup.
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Int/exh @ .50....221/225
Int/exh lift @ .50... .499/.510
Lobe separation... 112 (hydraulic roller/EFI)
Mine is 302 based 349 ci roller motor with the Holley Sniper tbi setup.
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More along the lines of the Joker setting fire to a stack of money...all $1 bills but a stack nonetheless.
The image didn't come across quite as clear as I'd expected, it is
Int/exh duration @ .50....230/236
Int/exh lift @ .50... .519/.523
Lobe separation... 110
It is Comp Cams grind number XE274H, also according to California Proposition 65: WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harm P65Warnings.ca.gov
Glad I'm done having kids!
JB
Bob Heine
ALLIANCE MEMBER
JB, as a member of the Spend Other People's Money club, might I suggest a matching pair of rebuilt heads from Rock Auto for around $400 (2 x $139.79 + $50 Core + $?? Shipping)? That would save you having to order new valves, springs, retainers, locks, seals and rocker studs.
If you were planning to use the old valvetrain components and just new seals on the old heads, you could buy a pair of bare aluminum Speedmaster heads from Summit for $598.40 (with free shipping). Hey, a pair of assembled and ready to bolt on Speedmaster heads is $846.45, saving a bunch of work and lightening both the car and your wallet. Just sayin.
If you were planning to use the old valvetrain components and just new seals on the old heads, you could buy a pair of bare aluminum Speedmaster heads from Summit for $598.40 (with free shipping). Hey, a pair of assembled and ready to bolt on Speedmaster heads is $846.45, saving a bunch of work and lightening both the car and your wallet. Just sayin.
madison069
Well-known member
Well I hadn't spent enough money today so I decided to order a cam kit that includes just about everything I'll need:
Should be fun.
JB
Same cam I have in the 350 chevy motor I have in the camaro.
I'm planning to change the carb out for a 650 since the 750 is not very street friendly.
Bob,
I'm an active member in the Spend Other People's Money club, but an absentee member of the You've Owned the Car for a Decade and Still Haven't Finished club, I've seen your name on the invite list.
That really digs to the root of the problem and why I've put off doing anything to the engine for so long. I've thought about what I wanted to do for an engine in this thing for a very long time, even before I bought the car. I bought the car in part because it had a 351 rather than a 302 and because it had a manual trans. What I didn't know then is that for less than the cost to upgrade the parts that needed upgraded I could have bought a better car to begin with. That is my first lesson to younger me (Which older me still has a tough time following): Buy the best car you can afford, and you can afford more than you let yourself believe. (From a financial standpoint this can be seen as absolutely terrible advise and I agree, however, a hobby car is usually terrible financially anyway.)
Anyway I have thought of everything including:
1) A better 351w with mid-level aluminum heads
2) An all out street/strip stroked aftermarket small block terror with nearly 600 hp NA
3) Supercharged version of one of the above
4) 4.6 Mod motor with a supercharger-Terminator cobra engine
5) 5.4 or 5.8 GT500 engine with a supercharger
6) 460 based big block, stroked to near 550 in^3 with an 8-71 blower
7) 427 side oiler
8) LS based 427 made to look like a small block Ford
9) 7.3L Ford Godzilla engine
All of these would be back by a manual transmission, one of the design constraints I have is that the trans can't be very long and work with the solid rear axle. Therefore I'm limited to a trans that can come close to holding the power of the above engine and still be street-able I was pretty much painted into the corner of a TKO 600. That trans would end up costing close to $3,500 with everything needed to make it work with potentially some changes needed depending on the final engine choice. Until I have ~$10k to do it all right I didn't really want to spend much on this engine.
All that to say I just want to build this one to last what I expect to be 2-3 years of use or around 10k more miles (16,000 km). It is hard for me to justify even an extra $400 that I'll never get my money back on when it is time to sell or give away in a few years time. So it really comes down to I can't make a decision, I'd ask for help but it wouldn't help, maybe winning the lottery and buying one of each will help me decide.
JB
Nice to hear that, I so rarely ever do. This'll be my first "real" engine rebuild so I hope it actually works.
I used to have a 750 on 350 sized engines and they never ran right, from what I've seen they are just slightly too big unless it is a pretty wild engine. It could have also been I didn't have a clue what I was doing with them, but I doubt it.
JB
patlun
Well-known member
No time to be sad, it is more fun to spread smiles.
That is a sound way of thinking and living. You feel better feeling happy!
I have been away some time, took some time catching up. You seems to have fun and lots to do.
Decisions, decisions, decisions - The process before pressing the "pay" button is almost as fun as installing the things. Admit that!
What I can see you are really investigating the alternatives and also get some help from the SOPM club, so nothing can go wrong... 
Did you listen to the video? I think the idle exhaust note is fantastic.
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mybigwarwagon
Well-known member
I have a 6.0l and a 4l80e I will sell you cheap. Should fix all the problems with that Furd
Mlowery
Member
You might concider shaving the large head to get the cc's closer. It will only take approx. .010 to get you 2cc. Shouldn't cost much.
It is not too hard to check the actual cc's. If they have ever been worked they may be closer or farther apart. I would also check the intake and exhaust ports. If they are close, you should be able to build a nice low budget motor with these heads.
It is not too hard to check the actual cc's. If they have ever been worked they may be closer or farther apart. I would also check the intake and exhaust ports. If they are close, you should be able to build a nice low budget motor with these heads.
That is a sound way of thinking and living. You feel better feeling happy!
I have been away some time, took some time catching up. You seems to have fun and lots to do.
Decisions, decisions, decisions - The process before pressing the "pay" button is almost as fun as installing the things. Admit that!
Patlun,
Welcome back, it never slows down here even if I don't post photos of everything I do, I rarely lounge in front of the TV. I do enjoy the research, it really is half the fun, working on the installation is the other half, the last half to three quarters of the fun is driving the finished
project. 
Oh I missed the link, that does sound very nice, I'll just come out and say it and offend the GM crowd, SBF firing order sounds better than SBC which sounds better than LS. (I'll run for cover now.)
I have a 6.0l and a 4l80e I will sell you cheap. Should fix all the problems with that Furd
I could get behind the 6.0l, but can't put an automatic in it.
That is one consideration, or even take .020 off of that one and .010 off of the other to get even a bit more compression. Last time I had some heads rebuilt it wasn't bad at all. When I get to the heads I have a porting kit I'll try to at least clean them up a bit and see how it goes. I'm working on cleaning a few other parts right now but they will be in the next week or so. Random photo of the crank exposed in the block:
JB
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
JB: i'm watching and learning and enjoying the conversations. sorry i've never rebuilt an engine or really worked on my cars that much, but the stories and information are good just the same.
nice point about buying the best car you can afford sorta like buying or building a bigger garage than you need cause you'll be glad you did in the long run.
enjoy your day!!
nice point about buying the best car you can afford sorta like buying or building a bigger garage than you need cause you'll be glad you did in the long run.
enjoy your day!!
I've never really gotten this far into an engine with the expectation to put it back together either, so don't feel too over your head. I'm only a certified YouTube mechanic.
I have to agree to a point, best thing with a car like mine or a new car is you can pretty much tell what you are getting and know there won't be many hidden gremlins. In that case yes, get the best you can or what you want it to be not one that you buy with the intention to make better. In the end you'll spend more most of the time.
Now if you are looking at an older or classic car things get very tricky, there are many ways to put lipstick on a pig where it is nearly impossible to tell until the problems creep up on you. There are tons of examples of guys buying high dollar cars with beautiful paint only to find out there is 50 pounds of bondo over chicken wire rust holes making it pretty.
When it comes to my daily drivers, nope the cheaper the better because most likely I won't fix anything unless it absolutely has to be fixed. It just isn't worth it to me to throw money into something that will eventually only be worth scrap price or slightly more. I also will buy a $500 S10 and spend many times that making it into what I want and will only be worth maybe half when/if I sell it. So maybe I'm not the best example or even someone you want to listen to.
JB
drivesitfar
Well-known member
JB: i've been driving Honda CRV's and now my Honda Pilot since the 1998 (I had a few hondas accords and a prelude before that with a few other cars) and a couple Dodge and Plymouth minivans for mama and the kids. the VANS were ****, but my bride didn't like Honda's van seats so Dodge and Plymouth it was. she's still driving the new CRV we bought in 2005 that has 180,000 on it. my 2003 Pilot that I bought used a few years ago with 110,000 on it has 212,000 or something like that and I'd drive it to California tomorrow if I had the time and a need to.
I'm not one for changing the oil regularly or doing much other than putting gas in mine and I bet I've got more than a few miles on these Hondas. sure a power window motor went out on my CRV's, but they just run for the most part and every 100K I'd have to remind myself to change the timing belt until they eliminated that in about 2005 or just before that. oh and new michelins every 60,000 or so.
anyway I wish you the best in your quest to make your COBRA a nice ride for you and maybe your kids and bride to join you on days when the sun is shining and you have time to take a spin in it.
cheers
I'm not one for changing the oil regularly or doing much other than putting gas in mine and I bet I've got more than a few miles on these Hondas. sure a power window motor went out on my CRV's, but they just run for the most part and every 100K I'd have to remind myself to change the timing belt until they eliminated that in about 2005 or just before that. oh and new michelins every 60,000 or so.
anyway I wish you the best in your quest to make your COBRA a nice ride for you and maybe your kids and bride to join you on days when the sun is shining and you have time to take a spin in it.
cheers
I won't start a war with you but the best V8 I ever heard was the 283 in my Grandpa's 1966 Chris Craft cruiser. It sounded like a full blown race engine through the water exhaust manifolds and it was bone stock!
Also .02 on the Comp XE cams. The one I had in my 383 only lasted about 3000 miles before 4 lobes went flat and flushed through my engine.
Bret
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OutlawDrifter
Well-known member
I hate to admit it JB, but I agree. Too make it fair to the GM guys, you can throw the Coyote 5.0 at the bottom of the pile, very blatty.
In high school I was always jealous of the foxbody 5.0 sounds....my Z28 never sounded that good, it would outrun them, but not out sound them!
Finallygotit
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I L O V E the sound of my SBF through my side pipes. Who needs music when you have that for a stereo.
I won't start a war with you but the best V8 I ever heard was the 283 in my Grandpa's 1966 Chris Craft cruiser. It sounded like a full blown race engine through the water exhaust manifolds and it was bone stock!
Also .02 on the Comp XE cams. The one I had in my 383 only lasted about 3000 miles before 4 lobes went flat and flushed through my engine.
Bret
Bret,
The tough part about exhaust is that just like burners on a stove, everyone has a favorite.
I sure hope I can do better with mine, this is my 3rd Comp ground cam but first XE grind/profile, time will tell but 3,000 miles will have me in the middle of the US next summer so that would kinda stink.
Nlped,
That is a healthy exhaust system, I think I'm only 1-5/8" primaries but each pipe is 3" and no crossover. I considered rebuilding the headers as mine aren't in great shape but just can't justify it to myself at this time, but they do need a little love before I reinstall them.
JB
Bret,
The tough part about exhaust is that just like burners on a stove, everyone has a favorite.
I sure hope I can do better with mine, this is my 3rd Comp ground cam but first XE grind/profile, time will tell but 3,000 miles will have me in the middle of the US next summer so that would kinda stink.
Nlped,
That is a healthy exhaust system, I think I'm only 1-5/8" primaries but each pipe is 3" and no crossover. I considered rebuilding the headers as mine aren't in great shape but just can't justify it to myself at this time, but they do need a little love before I reinstall them.
JB
I honestly think mine was wiped out because I was using Mobil 1 synthetic and at the time didn't know about the ZDDP. So as long as you use Amsoil, or Driven or just add a Zinc Additive you will be ok. I think normal bone stock motors are actually ok without the Zinc. Iits when you have a high lift cam and heavy spring rates that the Zinc is absolutely necessary.
Bret
I experienced similar, loved the sounds they made, sadly my 2.0L 4 cylinder couldn't compete with sound or with speed. Shocking I know.
I haven't heard many coyote 5.0's with an exhaust yet I guess then because I thought they sounded pretty good. Off to youtube I guess.I L O V E the sound of my SBF through my side pipes. Who needs music when you have that for a stereo.
Yes 100 times over, the sounds that come from them at idle, WOT, and deceleration make me tingly. I joke saying I do it for the pop pops but hearing the engine gurgle and pop is so much fun to me.
Quick story, last summer during the HRPT I was under an overpass in a crowd of about 40 cars mostly from the venue. A few of the newer Camaro's and Vette's were reving their engines I was next to a concrete wall and hammered it making some fire and pops ricocheting off of the walls. Then there was silence for a few seconds as I grinned like an idiot who found the toy in a Cracker Jacks box. I hear over the radio, "I think you won, now stop."
JB
Good to hear, I have Driven break in oil on the way, that is what Comp recommended when I bought the cam. I may eventually switch over to Red Line oil, gotta love that employee discount.
In this engine previously I just ran the cheapest Wally World oil I could get with no additives, surprisingly the cam and lifters looked great, bearings...yeah I'm replacing them.JB
Completely unrelated to what I've been working on lately but wanted to share a tool with ya'll I've never seen before until yesterday:
They are called Parrot Nose Locking Pliers, there are a few versions and manufacturers out there from what I've found. I ordered a set and may eventually have a review on them. The way I saw them used was for gripping a stripped off bolt on a YouTube channel called FlyingSparksGarage. If you haven't seen any of their shows check it out, some good tips and not bad on the eyes.
That is all, fingers crossed I can escape a little early today, the new cam came in.
JB
They are called Parrot Nose Locking Pliers, there are a few versions and manufacturers out there from what I've found. I ordered a set and may eventually have a review on them. The way I saw them used was for gripping a stripped off bolt on a YouTube channel called FlyingSparksGarage. If you haven't seen any of their shows check it out, some good tips and not bad on the eyes.
That is all, fingers crossed I can escape a little early today, the new cam came in.
JB
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realvc
Well-known member
Very cool, I'll be checking out some for the tool box.
Thanks
Vince
Thanks
Vince
mybigwarwagon
Well-known member
Looks like those pliers ran into a brick wall at full speed.
The weekend had promise of a lot of progress, I have gotten many of the parts needed to put the engine together so I jumped in feet first. Main bearings in:
Time to install the crank and torque the main caps then start working on the rod bearings:
That is where things went wrong, I torqued all of the fasteners I could get to then went to turn the engine over and it wouldn't. After a lot of head scratching and trying I found out I'd accidentally let two of the bearings roll slightly and didn't catch it with all of the assembly lube everywhere. I have two new bearings on order that will be here Tuesday.
I then turned my attention to the oil plan, here is a photo of the old drain plug bolt on the right and the new on the left:
I ordered a 1/2"-20 pan plug, turns out that wasn't correct. I was going to just put the new gasket on the old plug until I tried to install it in the pan and the threads felt very weak. I ended up welding a new 1/2"-20 nut to the pan after blasting it and wiping it all down. Sadly I forgot to get photos of that though. Next up was to flatten the pan out a bit:
This could be why the pan gasket didn't want to keep the oil in. Fixed now but again no photos
In other news the girls wanted to take the Pink Jeep out for a cruise, I pulled the top and doors off and we headed out. Ended up spending about 6 hours driving around and going to a pumpkin patch. It was a lot of fun:
JB
Time to install the crank and torque the main caps then start working on the rod bearings:
That is where things went wrong, I torqued all of the fasteners I could get to then went to turn the engine over and it wouldn't.
After a lot of head scratching and trying I found out I'd accidentally let two of the bearings roll slightly and didn't catch it with all of the assembly lube everywhere. I have two new bearings on order that will be here Tuesday. I then turned my attention to the oil plan, here is a photo of the old drain plug bolt on the right and the new on the left:
I ordered a 1/2"-20 pan plug, turns out that wasn't correct. I was going to just put the new gasket on the old plug until I tried to install it in the pan and the threads felt very weak. I ended up welding a new 1/2"-20 nut to the pan after blasting it and wiping it all down. Sadly I forgot to get photos of that though. Next up was to flatten the pan out a bit:
This could be why the pan gasket didn't want to keep the oil in.
Fixed now but again no photosIn other news the girls wanted to take the Pink Jeep out for a cruise, I pulled the top and doors off and we headed out. Ended up spending about 6 hours driving around and going to a pumpkin patch. It was a lot of fun:
JB
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
JB: it takes a man to pull off driving a PINK JEEP and looks like you are THE MAN with a very cute bride and daughters too.
sorry to hear the engine had a hiccup so to speak, but i'm sure there will be a little learning curve since you said it was your first rebuild.
keep up the good work and glad you had time to smell the roses so to speak. also looks like you've got summer while some of us are already experiencing winter conditions. the members in Wyoming have snow today and the guys and gals in Montana had snow a few weeks ago.
cheers
sorry to hear the engine had a hiccup so to speak, but i'm sure there will be a little learning curve since you said it was your first rebuild.
keep up the good work and glad you had time to smell the roses so to speak. also looks like you've got summer while some of us are already experiencing winter conditions. the members in Wyoming have snow today and the guys and gals in Montana had snow a few weeks ago.
cheers
It is actually a single front sump pan for whatever reason, seems to work though.
Thanks Drives, I try to not let it get to me, if I cared what everyone else thought of me I'd be stressed out all the time.
Someone built this engine and I can rebuilt it, it is only parts and pieces, look at each of them in sub-systems and those in smaller sub-systems and eventually it is just a really long list of simple projects.
It was low 70's that day and cooled off to low 40's that night. We had a frost the previous weekend though. I'm just enjoying the weather because I really can't do anything about it but complain and that doesn't get me very far.
JB
If it’s a front sump pan, I think I have a new one that I came into with parts I got for my Falcon. I went with a 302 based motor instead of the originally planned 351 based motor. If you’re interested, I’d send it your way for cost of shipping? I’ll pull it off the shelf and get some pictures this evening.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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taylorjhonwin
New member
I like your stuff
mybigwarwagon
Well-known member
Wow that pan looks like the post office got ahold of it.
You should be good for dozens more power tours soon.
You should be good for dozens more power tours soon.
OutlawDrifter
Well-known member
JB, it happens to the best of us! When I was building the 6.0l in my Z28, I was torquing the oil pickup tube to spec, and it was light enough even with my 1/4" torque wrench, there was no click....it eventually spun free....same thing happened on a rocker arm bolt...live and learn, and buy new parts, haha!
The pan is the lowest point in the center of the car, and you can tell it has proven that a few times. The side pipes are lower still but they don't scrape all that often.
Hopefully this is the only mistake I make on this one, fingers crossed anyway. When pulling this one apart I noticed I was one water pump bolt short. Turns out one had broken off who knows when. I tried to weld to it and spin it out with no luck after a couple dozen tries. I ended up having to drill and tap it, I was very nervous but all ended well.
Cam is installed now and double roller chain is next, starting to get exciting. Note to others, I did something rare today, I read the directions that came with the chain. Glad I did because there would have been a clearance issue I didn't know about that took some careful trimming. I'll try to get photos to share but ya'll know how that goes.
JB