This old garage

[mta2]

Hi everyone, new user here. I love this site already; its very helpful.

So I bought this house 2 months and I have this nice big garage to work and complete.

Problem is that it looks like its leaning if you look at the right side back wall and another problem I have is I believe the old owner hit the back wall with his vehicle which pushed the wall out. I don't have the pic of the other side of the garage but you can definitely see it pushed out.

On top of that, all the floor beams are rotted out from termites, I can hit it and break them easily. So those need to be replaced. Its if I need to basically lift up the garage and replace all the floor beams.

I am trying to figure out what exactly is the righ way to approach this. I am getting different opinions from people and I wanted to know what everyone here thinks.

Oh and the reason the concrete pad is all cracked is because there is a huge tree in my neighbor's hard and its root is under the garage.

 

[russlaferrera]

IMO the garage is unsafe. The cost to make needed repairs exceeds the cost of replacing the structure.

 

[timewarp]

There is no shear bracing to keep the walls from racking, that probably has more to do with the back wall not being straight than someone hitting it with their car. There was a thread just recently where someone had replaced the sills and sistered the studs and then added some shear bracing on the inside of the walls. I tried to find the thread but I couldn't, it was a very good write up. You would need to temporarily support a section of building at a time so you could replace the rotten sills with pressure treated wood and then cut off the rotten parts of the studs and sister studs to the old studs. Looks like you have vinyl siding so it may be easiest to remove the bottom couple of feet of siding to get into this from the inside and the outside at the same time. It could be done reasonably if you do it yourself, if you have to pay to have it done then it may be more economically feasable to tear it down and rebuild. Really think it wouldn't be too bad if you can do it yourself.

Might want to take a look at this website, still didn't find the post I was looking for, it may have been on breaktime at finehomebuilding.com instead of here, but this has some good info for you:
http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/framecarp/repair/sill/garage/rotted.htm

 

[Bull]

IMO the garage is unsafe. The cost to make needed repairs exceeds the cost of replacing the structure.

I disagree. I plan to have about $5k into my similarly derelict garage that I am fixing up into a usable space. That's a fraction of what replacing the structure would cost. It depends on how much he can do on his own and whether he can find a good, reasonable builder to work with.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40923

 

[Kevin54]

The garage is very repairable and looks to be in pretty decent shape. First question is....what kind of siding is on the garage? The front gable end looks to be vinyl and the soffits look to be vinyl. If the rest is vinyl, I would remove it to do repairs one wall at a time starting at the back.
The first thing you need to do is replace the sill plate with treated lumber, You can rent jacks to help raise the structure off of the foundation slightly and support it. You want to do one wall at a time, If you start with the back wall, then you can straighten the structure up. The back wall is the main wall keeping the garage racked.
You can replace the sill two different ways. Loosen the structure up, knock off the bottom sill plate by cutting it off at the bottom of the studs using a Sawzall and metal blade to cut through the nails, put in the new sill plate, then toenail the studs to it. Or you can cut off the bottom about 6-12" up (after supported) then sister new studs beside the existing studs and adding the new sill plate. Remember that you will need a treated lumber sill plate. After you get the new plate and everything on the back wall situated where you want it, get a come-a-long and goind from the bottom of one side to the top of the leaning side, jack the building back into place. Then using some OSB, nail it on the inside of the back wall (add insulation beforehand if you plan on insulating it) all the way across. This will keep the building square.
Then proceed to each side wall and do the same thing.
What you want to do is get rid of the bushes that are against the walls of the garage. The bushes will keep anything from drying out and can and will promote rot and make an excellent area for termites to start.
I believe Reifermans build on his barn may show you som,e great pointers on restoring an older building. Although yours is not as old as his, he has done some things that you may be able to use.
You may also want to add some extra support in the ceiling area to further prevent racking when you get it back to where you want.
All in all, a couple of good weekends of work and you could have it back in shape. You might end up with a little change in it, but cheaper than building a new one as the bones of your structure appear to be pretty good.

 

[agfisher]

I had the exact same situation with my garage a couple of years ago. What we ended up doing was jacking and supporting each wall of the structure. Then we cut about a foot off the bottom. Build Concrete forms and poured new foundation walls, put new pressure treated sills down and then settled the garage back down and moved to the next wall. Once done we put some cross bracing in to help prevent the whole structure from racking.

In my neighborhood, with the zoning laws etc., if I tear a structure down that does not conform to the zoning laws it can't be put back up where is was. It needs to be moved to be in accordance with zoning. Since I wanted to keep it exactly where it is I had to repair it.

Now if I could only afford a concrete floor instead of 50 year old asphalt :-(

 

[rieferman]

Kevin has it right, it's basically a spot on tutorial of what to do (in my opinion).

The only thing I'd possibly differ on is whether to jack/sister/replace sill first, or do the come along step first. The reason I'd want to do the come along step first is so that when you do your framing work it ends up square and true. If you fix your framing and then pull it straight, it will be out of square.


But it depends on whether the building has enough strength left in it to withstand the pulling. If it's very dangerously brittle, strengthen before pulling.

Then again, with some well placed post jacks (inexpensive to purchase at Home Depot.. about $35 for one.. you'll need several), you can take weight off the building while the come alongs do their job (also inexpensive at home depot.. again, about $35 apiece, you'll need 2 for this job... use 3/4" eye bolts as your connector, instead of washers, use wider flat plate to prevent bolt from pulling through your building).

edit: my best advice is that buildings, even beat down buildings, are tougher than you think... but still brace it 9 ways til sunday, and then brace it some more. And leave yourself an exit route.

 

[RobSmith]

1st thing walk around the building with a watering can full of plant poison. then let it fall over above where the tree roots are. Once the plants are out of the way you might be able to assess what the outside base of the walls are like.

 

[redsky49]

Before taking any action, you should perform a thorough, objective building assessment. If you are not comfortable doing this, hire a Building Contractor or Architect to help you. Rather than having them issue a report for you, just have them walk the site with you and take notes. Pick their brains for any solutions to problems they may identify.

What is the roof condition? Shingles in good condition? Are there multiple layers of shingles that would have to be removed? Are the roof structural elements in good condition and adequate for the application? nay roof leakage?

What condition are the gutters and the downspouts? Is the stormwater being directed away from the building?

Are the windows still operational? What condition is the overhead door?

There doesn't appear to be any electrical service. Will this be an issue for you? What would be the cost for a 60-100A service? Will this require a heavy-up from the electrical company? A second meter?

Floor slab looks poor. Can you determine the slab thickness? You could have anywhere from 2" to 6" of floor thickness. Would you be able to apply a topping to seal and level the floor?

I would investigate the footings to determine adequacy. Dig down the outside wall to determine the presence and depth of the footers. They may have just poured a turned-down slab, or perhaps a floating slab without any footers. You need to know.

The building has termites, is out of plumb and the floor is crumbling. I suspect that you may also encounter dry rot.

Is the structure also sagging at the overhead door?

Once you have a clear picture of the necessary repairs, develop a budget for materials and any items that you will have to sub out. Then take a long and hard view of the wisdom of repairing rather than replacing the garage. Would a structure two feet wider or longer make a big difference in the functionality of the garage?

I would consider a 3"-6" high concrete box sill at the floor slab, rather than placing the bottom plate directly on the floor slab. Plus you should use a sealing membrane and termite shield if you have bugs in your area.

Don't throw good money after bad. Be sure that the approach you select is the best from a cost and utility basis.

Just think through all the possibilities, and best of luck.

As always, offered only as opinion

 

[trainer]

Looks repairable.... If you have the time and ability. Problem is that it would still be an old garage. Personally , I wouldnt do it. I'd Put the effort into a new building.

If money is a problem, why not add a few lights and some bracing and use it as-is whlie you save for a new building?

Maybe you could salvage the siding, windows and garage door and use them in a new garage.

 

[Bull]

Of course, old garages have character. New isn't always better.

I would ditch that vinyl siding, though. Vinyl on old buildings rarely looks good.

Looks repairable.... If you have the time and ability. Problem is that it would still be an old garage. Personally , I wouldnt do it. I'd Put the effort into a new building.

 

[knudsen]

If it were mine, I would go around and tap all the wall studs with a hammer, if any sound mushy, cut out and replace. Getting the old out is a PITA, but you can drywall screw a new one in without much trouble.

 

[autoist]

I, for one, would like to see photos made during sunlight hours so I can actually see what I'm looking at.....If there's no rot in the wood & the slab/foundation is in good shape or repairable, she's probably restorabls.

But, betteer photos would allow for better decisions.

 

[wrigh003]

That looks salvageable to me, but step a-1-a is going to be getting those gutters cleaned out and the plants away from the foundation. Otherwise, you're always going to have problems with rot AND bugs.

 

[independentrider]

if you straighten the walls and sheath the inside with plywood that will solve the racking problem. I would cut the bushes from around the outside to let the wood dry out after wet weather.

 

[mbatarga]

The vegetation growing in the rain gutter is not helping long term condition of the roof either.

 

[trainer]

Of course, old garages have character. New isn't always better.

I would ditch that vinyl siding, though. Vinyl on old buildings rarely looks good.

I'd guess that the siding matched the house? thats why i suggested saving it.
I love old stuff as much as anyone. I live in an 1850's victorian style house, and last year I re-habbed a 100+ year old shed into a rec room/ studio for my kids. But the shed was structurally solid with a good roof and sound foundation.
I had a garage that looked alot like that one. I tore it down and put up a new one.


Problem is that that garage really isnt anything special architecturally, and it may have some serious structural and foundation problems. If it has sentimental value, or there are zoning issues that prevent replacing it, then keep it.

 

[mta2]

Thanks guys for your responses. I definitely want to restore this garage because aside from the lean and the bad sills, the structure itself is in very great shape. The roof is good, vinyl siding is somewhat new and the garage door just got serviced. I also had my electrician run an electrical line to it and installed a panel, lights & outlets.

The article timewarp posted definitely helps to understand on fixing the sills. I might not be able to do it though but I know someone who can but I have to tell him how to do it. Another problem was finding the jacks, I don't know where they sell them, I will check HD.

For the backwall, can I pull it in using a winch? What would I use to hold it in place, I'm hoping the sill replacement would fix this. I also plan on getting rid of the windows but only keeping one.

Does anyone have a picture or some information about pouring a new wall/slab underneath the new sills?

I will definitely post new pics once it stops raining.

Thank you all for your help.

 

[Bull]

Check out what this guy did...might be helpful,

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41042

 

[back2class]

You use bottle jacks to raise the wall, not a whinch. If all that was being done was to cut off the rotted ends of the wall studs and replace the sole plate with PT lumber it would take me a full day working by myself. But I was a licensed remodeling contractor at one time.

Honestly, it does not look too bad. Just put a few cross braces across the 2x4 interior walls to keep it from racking and spray the bugs. My gueess is that will be good enough if you just want to use it as is for a decade. But repair is proper and pretty simple. If the wall studs are not rotted far up you can just raise the wall an inch or so with jacks and cut enough off to attach a new sole plate to the bottoms of the studs and then slide cinder blocks under. The drop it the one inch back down on the blocks. That may be a little tricky dealing with the exterior though. But simply jacking one side at a time up an inch or so then replacing bad stud areas and sole is pretty straight forward.

 

[tcianci]

I agree with the guys who think the building can be saved. I disagree wit the suggestions that you jack the building to do so. If the building has problems due to settling, then by all means jack it back up to the correct height, otherwise just replace the sill in sections, cut out about 8 feet or so at a time and replace it and move along. It will work up fine. If you do indeed have termite damage, it is a safe bet that you will find those critters are not vertically impaired and can munch their way up the inside of a stud in short order. Poke the studs with a awl or ice pick, start at the bottom to determine what an un-sound stud feels like and work your way up. If you are lucky the damage will be low and repairable by cutting out the sill and the sheathing and the offending studs and then reconstructing what is needed. You need not build it back in the same manner...for instance, if there was a single sill plate and the damage is minor, doubling up the sill may be enough to get you back to the sound wood. Maybe you would need to put in several layers of PT sill material to get you where you need to be. Try to do this without having to replace studs, that's where it gets time consuming. If you do need to "replace" studs, sister them up against the existing and run them from your new sill to the top plate of the wall, don't bother tearing out the old ones, they are still holding the majority of your sheathing, if you take them out you will need to strip off all the siding to re-nail the sheathing to the new studs.

If the construction is such that the sills are on the slab and not on a separate footing, you may want to consider running a course of 8 inch cement block for the wall to bear on. This will give you a masonry curb that you could pour a new concrete floor into , should you decide to go that far with the structure.

As far as racking the building back into shape, start with the wall opposite the overhead door, once it is square again, insulate the wall and sheath the inside of it with plywood or OSB. Next do the 2 walls adjacent to the overhead door and treat them the same way. Lastly, rack the overhead door opening back into shape and install an X brace diagonally, at the ceiling plane from corner to corner, this will keep the front wall from racking again.