Timber Frame screen porch.

[Mainiac Mat]

Now that the Garage is mostly done, I've promised my sweetie that I would build her a 20' x 14' screen porch between the garage and house.

I built our timber framed house ~25 years ago, from logs harvested off the property and milled on site with a Woodmizer, and I've been itching to build another timber frame ever since (I also built a pole barn with timber frame elements, but it really doesn't count). I had timbers sawn up for the project last summer, and hope to get this done next summer.

So here's a screen shot of my preliminary plan (framing only)....








Design goals are to:

• Have maximum air flow
• Lockable egress door on front (up scale screen door)
• Sliding door on back that goes out to a deck. From there I'll have steps down to the side door of garage
• Accommodate for the floor and furnishings to be wetted occasionally.
• Have a means to keep the majority of the water out during heavy rain (outdoor shades/blinds, poly panels, etc...)
• Electrical outlets (I can wire these... just need to keep them dry)
• did I say maximum air flow (SWMBO is reminding me)

I'm looking for recommendations on what to do for flooring and insights about using exterior blinds or other methods to keep heavy rain out. Also, if anyone sees a better way to support this besides concrete pillars formed with sonotube, I'm all ears.

Thanks for looking in....

 

[jack stand]

How about a frost protected shallow foundation and a nice dyed or stamped concrete floor for 2 of your questions?
How many electrical outlets? I've always admired a nice neat pipe job (conduit)
Nice project

 

[billconner]

A wood floor that drains and keeps insects out and comes with water is a challenge.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

One of the design goals is for the floor of the screen porch to be level with the side door to the house. I'll have a back deck on the screen porch that steps down to the side door to the garage... which will be easily convertible to a ramp if one of us ever needs a wheelchair. I can't achieve that objective with a poured concrete patio at ground level.

This outfit makes really cool screens with thin nested sliding "windows" (taunt clear poly material like used on jeep soft covers).

 

[Metallitubby]

This is awesome. I would love to do similar with a larger'ish greenhouse, but timber framing isn't as popular down here.

 

[LXCam]

I can’t wait to see this. I’ve always wanted to do a TF structure but never lived in an area that it would look right, but now I do.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Looks like a great project. Currently working on something very similar. Will also be screening the porch in. Thinking of using netting on underside of joist to keep bugs out. Will install synthetic decking on top side. Triple flashed ledger.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Looks like a great project. Currently working on something very similar. Will also be screening the porch in. Thinking of using netting on underside of joist to keep bugs out. Will install synthetic decking on top side. Triple flashed ledger.

YES!!! You're my new best friend .....very similar project... very similar issues.

Wife wants maximum air flow... but I don't want it soaking wet all the time, and like having a dry (cold) room to kick off boots and queue bags of firewood in the winter).

I can get 1x pine dirt cheap at work and we used to own a cottage with a painted pine floor on a screen porch that we liked. There was no gap between the boards (maybe they ere T&G?), so we just broomed the water out the screen door when it rained in (which was often).

But if it's going to get drenched often, I'd want to go with poly decking with 1/8" gaps. But what about the skeeters? Screen under the joists would work, but that will inevitably collect debris. We're only 20" between the bottom header and the gravel drive and will enclose that with poly lathe for aesthetics, so I might try to put screen in behind the lathe... but will that rust? or be tight enough?

I've come up with too ideas I like to keep the water out. I really like the EZ screens, though they're pricey (~$600/ea. for 52"x96" units with four window sliders) they're really nice. But you give up ~25% of your screen opening for air flow and my wife is balking at that.

Another nice option is high end roll up windows from Porch Enclosure Systems that have fabric at top and bottom and clear flattened poly in the middle. Then they roll up completely out of the way.



But these run ~$1,000/ea for 6'x8' panels, and you still have to build/buy screens.

We're willing to spend significant money on the project... but I don't want to be stupid about it.

 

[WillyBoy]

I'll be watching this thread too. Looks like an interesting project.

 

[Stuart in MN]

This outfit makes really cool screens with thin nested sliding "windows" (taunt clear poly material like used on jeep soft covers).

Those are pretty slick. I've been mulling over the idea of enclosing my porch, and have been looking for a combination screen/glazing system.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Yes will be doing some research this week also to find a good product for the floor. Also think about the cheap builder wrap that is similar to synthetic burlap.

 

[hefnerconstructionlc]

Yes will be doing some research this week also to find a good product for the floor. Alsoi am thinking about the cheap builder wrap that is similar to synthetic burlap.

 

[My Old Tools]

Very nice. You probably have all your tools, but if you need anything, I might have it.
Www.myoldtools.com

 

[4 Ever-Fish N]

You guys with these skills are very impressive. Anxious to see the finished product.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Planning continues... When I built my COVID garage, one of the best decisions I made was opening a commercial account with Lavalley Building Supply in NH (big outfit with a dozen locations and a truss factory) . Pricing was low (most materials procured in spring on 2020 before things went nuts), but i have both a sales rep and CS rep and engineering support.

They ran the numbers and confirmed I can use 2x10 floor joists to span the 14'. But they sized my header timbers at 8x8 PT, which is special order and expensive. So I asked them to re-run the numbers with built up PT 2x10 headers.

So now the question is whether or not I really need/want to make the joists out of PT with a poly-plank deck.... or regular SPF with a 1x pine deck. For an enclosed structure, does code require me to use PT? Or is PT only required for framing members contacting the concrete pillars?

 

[Zeke]

I built a deck at the edge of a coy pond and we used PT joists because of the humidity that would be trapped below even though there was spacing. The deck material was redwood. Some of the lumber was in contact with concrete piers.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

It's been a year... thought I'd be farther along by now... but I'm still cutting the Timber Frame
Spent more time sorting out my cut list than I intended, and then had some twigs warp on my and need to be replaced. (had to tighten up my order details with the sawyer to require box heart or no heart).

Here's some more pics to show I'm actually getting something done.

Took a while to detail all the joinery and generate prints for each stick.



and make prints



Loading up logs to take to my buddy with the Woodmizer (one of several trips)



I helped tend the mill when slicing up my logs... but couldn't fill my cut list, so had to buy timbers cut from his log pile (big Pine and Spruce)....



And coming back with the goods...

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Tool time....

Rolled the dice on an old chain mortiser off ebay (shipped from Japan so no returns). Got lucky and it is in great condition with a new chain. Not bad for $400


I Converted my old Delta 12" portable lunchbox planer into a fixed depth of cut hand planer.


Can you say WOOD CHIPS! 3-D printed a dust collector attachement to help keep things tidy


Made a boring guide for my old hand held DeWalt D-handle drill (a.k.a. the wrist breaker)


Fabricated a new saw base for the 16" Makita... I bought this on the cheap, as the stock sheet metal base was bent like a banana, making the saw unuseable. Now it cuts dead nuts...


Doing drop cuts on tennons with the 16" Makinta is not for the faint of heart (me) so I bought a 10" worm drive Skill saw for half price off Ali-Express....

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Got a little overwhelmed with tools everywhere and didn't want to knock one over and damage it... so I decided to swipe my wifes unused garden cart and convert it into a tool cart




It's a bit overloaded... and heavy to move around... but it's better than tools in a pile.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Beams in the garage, beams in the pole barn, beams out under the tarp tent... I gots beams up to my eyeballs.







Welcome to the beam factory....

 

[Mainiac Mat]

The braces were small enough to do in my basement woodshop last spring while the snow was still on the ground...

 

[Mainiac Mat]

The timber frame is ~3/4 cut... but I'm going to have to shift gears into site work mode and dig for my footings and piers. Then it's a call to the lumber yard for materials for the stick built deck.

My goal is to get the frame up and the roof sheathed before the snow flies... but that's going to be a huge challenge.

 

[captain14]

Good luck and hope your weather holds out.

I like the garden cart conversion. Wheel it to the job site and back inside at the end of the day.

 

[NBraun]

Very Cool!

I just got done taking a TF class and have plans to cut a 12x16 or 16X20 barn this winter. Id love to here your thoughts on the Ryobi mortiser. That seems to be nicer than the Makita 7100B that are usually on ebay at that price point.

 

[manwithtools]

Nice project. I've done some timber framing, that's a lot of work. More than most folks can appreciate.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Looks good. I teach one of only a small handful of high school Timber Frame classes in the country. Nice work...and nice tools. A good chain mortiser is game changer!

 

[mike93lx]

Is the chain mortiser rated at 50-60hz 100v? They have a bit of an odd power grid, so I'm curious how tools for their market are rated.

I've been planning a rebuild of a screen room and have been considering both the ezporch brand you linked as well as craft bilt
https://craft-bilt.com/products/stacking-windows/
Both allow you 75% air flow but can be closed up for rain, pollen and cold. My plan is either sheet linoleum or some sort of vinyl planking, over an advantech subfloor

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Looks good. I teach one of only a small handful of high school Timber Frame classes in the country. Nice work...and nice tools. A good chain mortiser is game changer!

Savoy, MA? Sounds like you're out in the Berkshires and probably know Will Beamer and the Heartwood crowd.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Is the chain mortiser rated at 50-60hz 100v? They have a bit of an odd power grid, so I'm curious how tools for their market are rated.

I've been planning a rebuild of a screen room and have been considering both the ezporch brand you linked as well as craft bilt
https://craft-bilt.com/products/stacking-windows/
Both allow you 75% air flow but can be closed up for rain, pollen and cold. My plan is either sheet linoleum or some sort of vinyl planking, over an advantech subfloor

I'm finding several outfits that market and sell these stacking vinyl windows. Oddly, they're all up north (several in Minnisota). I guess the mosquitos are driving the market. I believe they are all manufactured by the same plant in FL, so I'm trying to see if I can buy direct and knock the cost down, as I don't really need the design service.

I pondered advantech with outdoor carpeting. Still may go that way, but I don't have a good feel how much moisture is going be present underneath.... I can put down a heavy duty vapor barrier, and stone and pitch it to daylight, and put a gutter on the eves... but all the deck peeps are calling anything other than PT, cedar, Ipe, or poly a big mistake.

Re. electrical... I'm a ME, not an EE... but I've done a fair bit of electrical design work (commercial and residential) in consultation with licensed PEs and Mater Electricians and here's my take on it....
You can run 100v motors on 120v power.
You can run 50 hz motors on 60 hz power.
Running 60 Hz motors on 50 Hz may cause problems, as the magnents are sized for the lower inductance.
You can run 240v motors on 208v power, though you may give up a small % of rated HP.

My Ryobi had a funny outlet with a little ground clip, but it had a really nice, long, highly flexible cord, so I just wired up a three prong plug.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Very Cool!

I just got done taking a TF class and have plans to cut a 12x16 or 16X20 barn this winter. Id love to here your thoughts on the Ryobi mortiser. That seems to be nicer than the Makita 7100B that are usually on ebay at that price point.

Many of the Japanese morticers are sized for smaller timbers (6" max), so I had to fab two new guide bars (ordered stock on McMaster, cut to lenght and drilled a couple holes... really easy) to fit 8" and 10" timbers.

I've used a Mafel cross grain mortiser in the past and while it's much faster, cleaning up the mortise afterwards was much more time consuming. Most of the Jap mortisers cut parallel to the grain and just require a touch on the side walls with a paring chisel, and squaring up the bottoms at the end (unless you put a healthy chamfer on your tennons).

The old These old Ryobis (nothing like the Home Depot DIY class cordless tools) are serious industrial machines. And this model, with the slide rails enables you to clean up the bottoms dead flat. As said... I got lucky and the machine, while well worn, only has one small chip in the casting, and a new chain. Replacing the chain on one of these rigs can be cost prohibitive.

The old Makitas only adjust in/out from the fence. The old Ryobis and Hitachis had the side shift as well. You can tell which is which by the number of levers on them. One is clamp, one slides in and out from the fence, and the third slides left to right. It's a pretty cool setup.... though it's not lite. The new Makita 7104 pivots the head for the left to right function... I've never used one, but it seems odd to me, and will result in an uneven mortise depth without fussy clean up.

If you're cutting a 1.5" x 5" mortise on my Ryobi, you can cut it in one set up. Otherwise, you have to unclamp, slide down, and continue on.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

Savoy, MA? Sounds like you're out in the Berkshires and probably know Will Beamer and the Heartwood crowd.

Yes, exactly. I don't know Will. But Jack Sobon will come in and do a guest lecture every year. The high school I teach at is his almer mater....so it kind of comes full circle.

 

[MikeC55]

I like that tool cart idea too. The chain mortiser is an interesting tool I’d never seen before. Good luck on your build.

 

[jar944]

Tool time....

Rolled the dice on an old chain mortiser off ebay (shipped from Japan so no returns). Got lucky and it is in great condition with a new chain. Not bad for $400


I Converted my old Delta 12" portable lunchbox planer into a fixed depth of cut hand planer.

Nice.
I'm envious of that ryobi.

And way to go on the makita kp312 knockoff. I've seen people use those lunchbox planers as self traveling beam planers but never seen someone convert one to a power plane.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Yes, exactly. I don't know Will. But Jack Sobon will come in and do a guest lecture every year. The high school I teach at is his almer mater....so it kind of comes full circle.

I'm quite familiar with Jack Sobon and met him at a Timber Framer's Guild Conference 20+ years ago. Prior to that I corresponded with him while I was laboring to build my TF house...which is a modification of the Hall and Parlor house detailed in his book. This book literally changed my life, as it altered my course after I bolted from the nuclear navy.


That's so cool that you have a TF class at your school and that Sobon participates in it.

The Heartwood School used to be in Washington, MA, but I just learned that the TFG took it over in 2019 when the Beamer's retired. Now it's in Alstead, NH.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I'm quite familiar with Jack Sobon and met him at a Timber Framer's Guild Conference 20+ years ago. Prior to that I corresponded with him while I was laboring to build my TF house...which is a modification of the Hall and Parlor house detailed in his book. This book literally changed my life, as it altered my course after I bolted from the nuclear navy.


That's so cool that you have a TF class at your school and that Sobon participates in it.

The Heartwood School used to be in Washington, MA, but I just learned that the TFG took it over in 2019 when the Beamer's retired. Now it's in Alstead, NH.

Interesting. Did not know that about the Heartwood School. I just bought a neighboring property here in Savoy and am running a little side gig LLC out of it...small custom timber frames. I was thinking about offering adult Intro to Timber Framing courses over the summer kind of like the Heartwood School. But really basic courses...5 day, weekend only, night courses...How to Build a 12x16 Shed for example....but at half the cost of a Heartwood School course.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

.... I just bought a neighboring property here in Savoy and am running a little side gig LLC out of it...small custom timber frames ...

I have similar thoughts for a retirement gig.... making and selling TF gazebos (octagonal and rectangular).

We'll have to compare notes some day.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I have similar thoughts for a retirement gig.... making and selling TF gazebos (octagonal and rectangular).

We'll have to compare notes some day.

Sounds good Mainiac Mat. Good luck on your project.

 

[mike93lx]

Interesting. Did not know that about the Heartwood School. I just bought a neighboring property here in Savoy and am running a little side gig LLC out of it...small custom timber frames. I was thinking about offering adult Intro to Timber Framing courses over the summer kind of like the Heartwood School. But really basic courses...5 day, weekend only, night courses...How to Build a 12x16 Shed for example....but at half the cost of a Heartwood School course.

A class like this is something I'd love to do, despite being in no real danger of building anything timber frame. These are the kinds of skills I love to develop.

Also, savoy is a beautiful area. I was camping at the state park this summer with buddies

 

[Natty Bumppo]

A class like this is something I'd love to do, despite being in no real danger of building anything timber frame. These are the kinds of skills I love to develop.

Also, savoy is a beautiful area. I was camping at the state park this summer with buddies

LOL. Indeed Mike....great skills to have. I get a ton of e-mails and requests from adults asking if I would ever teach some kind of an adult class. I think if I offered something next summer I could easily fill a few classes. What would be neat too is that I could also hire some of my former students to serve as Teaching Assistants in the class.

And yes, very lucky to live in Savoy....beautiful part of the Berkshires. Thought I do love VA too. I was stationed at Langley AFB in the lates 80's and 90's and fell in love with VA....especially the Blue Ridge Mtns.

 

[Mainiac Mat]

Need to hustle to get my footings and piers in before it gets too cold...

Borrowed a couple tools from work:



Cut up the concrete slab I poured 25 years ago (>6" thick, 4K lb mix, 3 rows of rebar .... ugh!)






Chipping it up with the forks on my tractor loader...


Then dug it up down to below frost level (48") with my weaklling back-hoe attachement...



All done...



It only took all stinkin' day, and I managed to tweak my back somewhere along the way... Go figure!

Next step footings and piers