Tool Philosophy - Starting Out

[Codejack]

And confirmation from the GJ members that your tool choices are indeed the correct ones.
This is your 3rd or 4th thread related to your new tools, the 1st being titled "needs reassurance". So how much reassurance will you be needing from here on out? Brand isn't important you say BUT from what I can see the important thing in your tools is that they be colored black.

Well, the "reassurance" I got on the first set wound up being advice to completely change it; it was good advice, so I came back for more

There was some static, this time, though; multiple people were giving radically conflicting advice, and being rather strident about it. Rather than keep arguing, or guessing who was right, I asked for a show of hands about what I saw as the core disagreement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to go it alone, but I'm not so headstrong as to ignore advice when it's available, especially when I'm basically coming back to an industry that I have been more-or-less out of except as a hobby for 20 years.

 

[jd_1138]

And confirmation from the GJ members that your tool choices are indeed the correct ones.
This is your 3rd or 4th thread related to your new tools, the 1st being titled "needs reassurance". So how much reassurance will you be needing from here on out? Brand isn't important you say BUT from what I can see the important thing in your tools is that they be colored black.

I don't mind discussing tools obsessively. Beats watching TV.

As to my philosophy about buying tools, I think buying whatever you can afford right away and as many sizes and categories as possible is smart. So you can start learning and wrenching and saving money. The cheaper brands are dirt cheap. Then gradually cherry pick the better midgrade stuff, look for sales, buy used, etc.. Maybe buy high grade for your ratchets and torque wrench.

And then relegate the cheaper line to the shed or whatever your secondary work area is.

 

[Diesel Mercedes]

Get Tekton.

 

[Codejack]

I believe the feel of the handles was the main complaint. Oh and they were rusty or something.

Rusty, loose and dull were the main complaints; that the handle style was not the one I prefer is secondary.

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But that is exemplary of the problem I am having: The same people who are telling me that I need to shell out $$$ or go scavenging for USA-made tools are giving me advice that is flatly contrary to my own experience.

I have spelled out my reasoning; that I expect to wind up spending less in the long run by buying mid range and upgrading as needed. I expect the cost of the "wasted" tools to be less than the cost difference for tools that would have been acceptable in mid range, or even lower. No one has pointed out any issues with that plan.

Now I have a poll of the board where, any way you want to cut it, option 3 is winning.

 

[Codejack]

Get Tekton.

Oh, wow, was that a huge argument

That being said, some of their stuff is on my list.

 

[ez-duzit]

...Now I have a poll of the board where, any way you want to cut it, option 3 is winning.

Because of the flawed way in which the poll was setup to give you precisely the answers you sought. Because of that I did not vote.

 

[Codejack]

Because of the flawed way in which the poll was setup to give you precisely the answers you sought. Because of that I did not vote.

There are 3 ways to analyze the data:

1. Take all the percentages, highest number wins. Option 3 is almost 32%.

2. Add up all options that include options 1, 2 and 3 respectively, and compare totals. Option 3 gets almost 64%.

3. Take options 1, 2 and 3, add them up, and divide that number by each percentage, giving you the relative percentage. Option 3 is almost 70%.

----------------------------------

Again, this is an opinion poll, not a rigorous analysis of any known demographic; how do I know what kind of work or expertise any of you actually have?

It's just the best guide I can get; I didn't weight this poll, I want real information. If you have a specific criticism, how would you suggest that I change it to make it better?

 

[Dingleburry]

Buy what you can when you can. Some stuff you can go mid grade some stuff must be top grade. IE hex keys. Etc.
Mid grade, ive used stanley fat max sockets for 5 years on impacts electric and pneumatic, with cheater bars, beating the ratchets with hammers and dead blows, they still holding up strong.
Mind you its industrial mechanic, so everything isnt rusted to ****, but they still get used and abused frequently.
So from my experience, buy some mid grade and some top grade.
Upgrade as needed.
I tend to say if its a chunk of metal, like a socket or wrench, top brands arent going to have some kind of indestructable alloy, and you can get past with midgrade.
Just IMO

 

[Mikeske]

I did it the cheap way. Having that I started out over 35 years ago and was still in the Air Force with a young family to support, I shopped around the truck brands at the Air Force base and found the cheapest truck brand I could get. The choices then were Snap-on, Matco, Mac and Bonney with one independent guy I knew.

The cheapest back then was actually Bonney and I bought a basic set with the cheapest top and bottom boxes. That cheap POS of a toolbox lasted my entire career and I recently sold it off to help pay for a new toolbox for the Bonney tools. My Bonney setup was bought and paid for in late 1983 and with no account, I just saved the cash and paid for upfront. I never had a tool truck account and never had a bill to take money from my family.

Since I was a aviation mechanic I came out of the Air Force with a full set of basics and some Craftsman stuff I added and I was hired on at major aircraft manufacturing concern in the Pacific Northwest in 1987. Back then you had to provide basic hand tools and the company provided the special and capital tools.

So now after over 40 years of wrenching I use what ever works and in the cheapest manner possible. I could give a hoot what others think and I have provided for my family and I now am retired.

Yeah over the years I did acquire Snap-on, Mac, Matco, Japanese, Chinese, any asian country you name and Harbor Freight tools I just bought what was needed at the time and if I saw that they were cheap at a pawn shop, flea market or garage sales, Harbor Freight, Northern Tools, Town Town, the big truck brand tools I buy them if the price was right at the fleas, garages and swap meets.

 

[bczygan]

You can analyze the poll all you want, and not get a clear answer, because there isn't one.

Buy what you need, just before you need it.

Sometimes that will be the most expensive choice, and sometimes it will be the least expensive one.

You will make mistakes. You will change over time.

One thing I am discovering is that while I use mostly certain sizes out of a set, having the whole set makes organization easier. And having a wide selection of tools makes solving the oddball problem easier.

Experience will give you the answers you seek.

Bill

 

[SuitorsGarage]

I voted choice #3. If you plan on doing automotive work for yourself then you have or will have accounts with auto parts stores. I would look into napa carlyle and watch their flyers for sales. Warranty is easy, they will deliver it to you like a tool truck only quicker, quality is good, with an account you don't need cash in hand at the moment you need a tool.

If these tools were for a complete noob starting out, I would say buy a HF 4 drawer and then put either HF tools or Craftsman tools in it from one of their sets.

 

[Makoto]

I started off with a craftsman set. my son will do the same. they're inexpensive and effective. Brand loyalty is for suckers.

Snap on is no better than harbor freight IF you just need a 1 1/4" wrench and both get the nut off and back on.

I view the pro level tools in terms of comfort. the normal craftsman ratchets are effective but snap on or mac pieces feel a lot better. then again HF is making some killer stuff these days. for the normal person spending 10K on hand tools would be insane.

 

[zmotorsports]

I voted other because I didn't care for any one particular choice.

It may be different for each person but the way I did it was that I bought mid-grade (mostly Craftsman) at the time and when I started wrenching professionally at my full-time job I actually needed two sets so as I upgraded at work my other tools went home to my home shop. I bought the best quality tools I could at the time and a lot of my tools came from pawn shop and estate sales.

As I started working on cars on the side, I put 10% of the money aside for tools and as I needed to upgrade or add tools to my arsenal I dipped into that fund. I never bought tools on credit and highly advise against it. I see and have seen co-workers do this and it seems they never get ahead of it and are upside down right out of the gate.

I also was fortunate enough to have co-workers that understood I was just starting out and newly married so they would loan tools as necessary. I absolutely despised borrowing tools so I made a commitment to myself that I would borrow a tool once and write it down. If I needed to borrow that tools again for a second time, I needed to own that tool and would purchase it. My co-workers also saw me doing this and I think respected me enough for it that they offered their tools for loaning very freely, again I hated to borrow tools but I could tell a difference in the way they loaned me tools vs. other co-workers who would borrow the same tool day after day after day and never attempt to purchase their own.

Good luck in your career and besides tools, gain as much knowledge and experience as you can to advance yourself. Don't settle on just doing the job at hand, always seek to learn more and take on more tasks to build upon your skillset as well as your actual tool set.

 

[countryroad82]

I'm in the camp of buying mid grade then upgrade as you need. I started out with SK and Craftsman tools. They did me very well through the years and only in the last 6-7 years did I start upgrading to Snap On. Really all I wanted to do is treat myself to nice tools, and I did and I'm pleased with my decision. Did I have to? Not really, but the upgrade did make my life a LITTLE easier. For someone spinning wrenches as often as I do, I can tell. For a weekend warrior, no it's not worth the investment.

 

[itylerstewart]

I do 1, 2, and 3. I found some deals to fill gaps in my toolbox with cheaper stuff to get by. I also buy used top tier stuff in good condition. If I cant find something used, I buy a lot of top tier stuff new as well. I have found myself collecting snap on now. If I cannot find a good deal on ebay I will just pay retail to finish a set.

 

[JazzBlueRT]

This is why you simply buy a complete Craftsman set on sale and be done with it.

 

[HanShotFirst]

I don't know that there is a one size fits all solution for the new mechanic.

For a guy just starting out, what he needs are tools...His first need is quantity more than quality. They guy has to have enough tools to do his job effectively. How he gets there will depend on his bank account, and the resources available to him.

We all know that you can begin with HF to get the job done, and upgrade from there. If that's a viable option than it's a viable option. If he can beg-borrow some tools, get some friends & family to donate some, then that's great.

Once you have the minimum tools to do your job, then it's time to start thinking quality above all else.

 

[Codejack]

This is why you simply buy a complete Craftsman set on sale and be done with it.

I had one; I threw it away 20+ years ago.

 

[ssdave]

Your problem isn't a lack of clarity in tools, it's a lack of confidence in yourself and your choices. Buy what you think you need, use it for what you need it for, and if it doesn't work for you, upgrade it to what you think will work. Or, if you have to be re-assured, just buy the most expensive and nicest you can get and rest assured that no-one will think it isn't good enough.

These are tools, not trophy wives or status symbols that you buy for what others think of them, not for your own needs. Don't overthink it. The work you can do with the tools is what matters, and will the tools not fail and hurt you in the process of that work. You may make a poor decision in the poor quality tools you have been buying; in that case you will have learned a valuable lesson that's worth what you spent on the tools or more. Or, you may learn that the cheap tools are good enough for what you're doing, and have saved some money.

Not every decision in life needs to be shopped on the internet to get a concensus opinion. Just do what you think you should and learn from it.

To answer the poll, I think you should buy decent quality tools if you can afford them and upgrade to better as you need to. If you can't afford decent quality, buy a minimum of cheap stuff that you need to do the stuff you do, and upgrade as needed and add good quality tools as you can afford to.

My thoughts are Carlyle and Gearwrench are the cheap tools that a person that intends to use them extensively should consider, SK and Wright are the mid-range, and Proto and Snap-on are the upgrades.

In the sub-quality cheap tools, there's hundreds of brands, and they do well for a lot of people that have the "cheapest available" mentality. There are a lot of usable tools out there that are quite inexpensive. They may not last with extensive use, or may not do heavy duty work, but they'll get the job done.

Again, let your needs dictate what you buy, not the internet group decision.

 

[ssdave]

I had one; I threw it away 20+ years ago.

I haven't followed your whole saga, so not intimately familiar with your story, but if 20 plus year old Craftsman were not good enough for you, why did you choose the stuff in your reassurance thread? A lot of the stuff you ended up with in your final picture is lower quality than that old Craftsman stuff. If the Craftsman didn't work, your new stuff won't either, and you'll need to step up your quality level quite a bit.

I'm not a fan of Craftsman myself, but they were okay quality and compare very favorably to the cheap stuff available from others today. I used Craftsman professionally when I started out, and overall, it was okay, just not great.

 

[alexb2000]

Everyone is commenting on tools as a purely personal choice. Mostly true, but the mark of a professional is reflected by their tools. Doesn't mean every tool is a green handled Snap-On, BUT quality tools of some kind often mean quality work and a person that pays attention to detail.

I was just looking at a guy taking the interior out of an aircraft. It was mostly held in with painted pan head phillips screws. This guy made the "personal choice" to use a worn out Harbor Freight bit in a way too powerful 18v Dewalt drill to remove them as quickly as he could (it got the job done right?). The owner went crazy with every screw wallowed out and the paint chipped. About $500 in hardware later and a complete redo of the job it was back together.

I had a friend get a brand new $1500 dash in his Lexus because the new guy at his shop was doing some work on it didn't want to spend the money for the right trim tools so he used an old putty knife and a big flat tip to make a repair.

All I can say to the OP is that if I had to choose a mechanic the LAST one I want is a guy trying to get by with the cheapest **** tools out there.

 

[Codejack]

I haven't followed your whole saga, so not intimately familiar with your story, but if 20 plus year old Craftsman were not good enough for you, why did you choose the stuff in your reassurance thread? A lot of the stuff you ended up with in your final picture is lower quality than that old Craftsman stuff. If the Craftsman didn't work, your new stuff won't either, and you'll need to step up your quality level quite a bit.

I'm not a fan of Craftsman myself, but they were okay quality and compare very favorably to the cheap stuff available from others today. I used Craftsman professionally when I started out, and overall, it was okay, just not great.

And I have no clue where people get this idea; Craftsman has been absolute garbage my entire adult life.

Yea, I started out with Craftsman, too, and they kept letting me down. I replaced the exact same socket twice in one afternoon, and I threw the set away when the 3rd one cracked on the same bolt the first two broke on. The Husky set I went and bought had no problems at all.

Here's one of my remaining combination wrenches:

Those aren't anti-slip grooves on that wrench.

I needed some needle-nose visegrips this afternoon, and my only small pair were Craftsman. They were defeated by a 5/8" spring hose clamp. I wound up having to cut it off and replace it.

-------------------------------------------------------

I really try to temper my comments on Craftsman; this is me trying to be nice about them. In reality, I rate them about the same quality as Hyper Tough from Walmart or Ultrasteel at O'Reilly's.

I have been using Kobalt/Williams USA for 20 years, now, and I've broken a few of them; I can't get them warrantied with quality replacements, so I need a new set.

The Gearwrench 3/8" impacts have held up to stuff that would have broken the Williams sockets, and the 1/4" Harbor Freight sockets have surprised me with their strength. More than once I have started to switch from 1/4" to 3/8", thought, "Well, it's got a warranty, let's try it out," and put 50 ft-lbs on a 1/4" flex head ratchet with a 10mm socket on a 4" extension; no problems yet.

Even the HF India and China combination wrenches, while not great, especially on finish, fit well and have taken some torque without giving up or rounding any bolts. Much better than my old Craftsman wrenches.

--------------------------------------------------------

And this is why I am so confused; when many people are giving me advice that is flatly contradictory to my own experience, I get confused, I get curious, and I try to get to the bottom of it.

One interesting point is that there may be some regional variation; not in the tools, but in the difficulty of the jobs.

I was watching a youtube video by a mechanic out in CA called, "mechanics beat on brake rotors." It came up in my queue, and I was curious, because, "Of course mechanics beat on brake rotors, how else are you supposed to get them off?" This experienced mechanic was freaking out about having to do it, though.

The point, of course, is that in CA, they don't get a lot of rust...

Things to think about:

-Do you expect a certain amount of breakage when you perform repairs and maintenance?
-Do you often find that your tools, even good ones, are stressed to the limit on relatively small bolts and parts?
-Are hammers and saws two of your more important automotive tools?

This is my world.

 

[Hiball]

IMO Craftsman was a great brand to learn with, the ease of warranty allowed new mechanics understand the limits of drive sizes etc... it takes some experience to know when to upsize, grab the heat and or penetrating fluid and take a break. I've torn down tons of rusty junk with craftsman tools from the 90's, still have a lot of singles laying around, outside of the self reversing ratchets, they don't owe me anything. I not saying I never broke anything, but generally there was a story behind the carnage.

 

[ez-duzit]

...I have no clue...

...I am so confused...

This photo pretty much shows why you're having so much trouble with your tools. You abuse them by not knowing how to choose the right one for the job. Breaking 3 sockets in a row should have been a clue.

The older Craftsman tools were perfectly fine for many of us. I still have most of the first ones I bought about 60 years ago.

 

[DGersic]

And I have no clue where people get this idea; Craftsman has been absolute garbage my entire adult life.



Yea, I started out with Craftsman, too, and they kept letting me down. I replaced the exact same socket twice in one afternoon, and I threw the set away when the 3rd one cracked on the same bolt the first two broke on. The Husky set I went and bought had no problems at all.



Here's one of my remaining combination wrenches:

Those aren't anti-slip grooves on that wrench.



I needed some needle-nose visegrips this afternoon, and my only small pair were Craftsman. They were defeated by a 5/8" spring hose clamp. I wound up having to cut it off and replace it.



-------------------------------------------------------



I really try to temper my comments on Craftsman; this is me trying to be nice about them. In reality, I rate them about the same quality as Hyper Tough from Walmart or Ultrasteel at O'Reilly's.



I have been using Kobalt/Williams USA for 20 years, now, and I've broken a few of them; I can't get them warrantied with quality replacements, so I need a new set.



The Gearwrench 3/8" impacts have held up to stuff that would have broken the Williams sockets, and the 1/4" Harbor Freight sockets have surprised me with their strength. More than once I have started to switch from 1/4" to 3/8", thought, "Well, it's got a warranty, let's try it out," and put 50 ft-lbs on a 1/4" flex head ratchet with a 10mm socket on a 4" extension; no problems yet.



Even the HF India and China combination wrenches, while not great, especially on finish, fit well and have taken some torque without giving up or rounding any bolts. Much better than my old Craftsman wrenches.



--------------------------------------------------------



And this is why I am so confused; when many people are giving me advice that is flatly contradictory to my own experience, I get confused, I get curious, and I try to get to the bottom of it.



One interesting point is that there may be some regional variation; not in the tools, but in the difficulty of the jobs.



I was watching a youtube video by a mechanic out in CA called, "mechanics beat on brake rotors." It came up in my queue, and I was curious, because, "Of course mechanics beat on brake rotors, how else are you supposed to get them off?" This experienced mechanic was freaking out about having to do it, though.



The point, of course, is that in CA, they don't get a lot of rust...



Things to think about:



-Do you expect a certain amount of breakage when you perform repairs and maintenance?

-Do you often find that your tools, even good ones, are stressed to the limit on relatively small bolts and parts?

-Are hammers and saws two of your more important automotive tools?



This is my world.

I live in the rust belt. I don't break tools on rusty bolts; normally, it's the bolt that breaks. Even the cheapest Chinesium tools can destroy an M6 bolt with 20 years of Illinois salt corrosion.

Cutting tools, yes, and hammers, cheater bars, breaker bars, and drills for dealing with rusted and broken bolts.





Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[jd_1138]

Everyone is commenting on tools as a purely personal choice. Mostly true, but the mark of a professional is reflected by their tools. Doesn't mean every tool is a green handled Snap-On, BUT quality tools of some kind often mean quality work and a person that pays attention to detail.

I was just looking at a guy taking the interior out of an aircraft. It was mostly held in with painted pan head phillips screws. This guy made the "personal choice" to use a worn out Harbor Freight bit in a way too powerful 18v Dewalt drill to remove them as quickly as he could (it got the job done right?). The owner went crazy with every screw wallowed out and the paint chipped. About $500 in hardware later and a complete redo of the job it was back together.

I had a friend get a brand new $1500 dash in his Lexus because the new guy at his shop was doing some work on it didn't want to spend the money for the right trim tools so he used an old putty knife and a big flat tip to make a repair.

All I can say to the OP is that if I had to choose a mechanic the LAST one I want is a guy trying to get by with the cheapest **** tools out there.

That's insanity. Heck, HF has a set of plastic trim panel remover tools for like $8 or something for the plastic set and $20 for the "u" shaped tools to pop out the rivets in panels.

I always say that regardless of brand, it's always best to have all the various categories and types of tools covered. Even if it's an $8 set of plastic panel tools from HF. 95% of customers probably won't noticed scratches, but if you F with the wrong customer, they will force the shop to make the car perfect again.

 

[Codejack]

I live in the rust belt. I don't break tools on rusty bolts; normally, it's the bolt that breaks. Even the cheapest Chinesium tools can destroy an M6 bolt with 20 years of Illinois salt corrosion.

Cutting tools, yes, and hammers, cheater bars, breaker bars, and drills for dealing with rusted and broken bolts.

I guess we don't get so much salt corrosion; they salt the road several times during the winter, but it gets washed off within a week. It almost never stays below freezing for more than a few days at a time, anymore...

What we do get is 54" of rain per year, though. It's been dry for a few days, now, but the humidity is still 70%.

At any rate, I run into crazy stuck bolts on a regular basis; not corroded, just surface rust, but basically welded in place.

I break Williams sockets, too, just not so easily.

 

[Codejack]

This photo pretty much shows why you're having so much trouble with your tools. You abuse them by not knowing how to choose the right one for the job. Breaking 3 sockets in a row should have been a clue.

So... you're just going to leave it there?

Please, tell me what I am doing wrong.

 

[Yarpo]

This photo pretty much shows why you're having so much trouble with your tools. You abuse them by not knowing how to choose the right one for the job. Breaking 3 sockets in a row should have been a clue.

The older Craftsman tools were perfectly fine for many of us. I still have most of the first ones I bought about 60 years ago.

Yeah that's what I'm beginning to wonder

I'm not a fan of Chinese craftsman at all, but my boss uses and abuses(within reason) the same craftsman USA chrome set over and over again and we haven't broken a single socket. The laser etching is gone and you can hardly read sizes on half the sockets, but they work.

Everyone swears up and down about the USA craftsman and I see no reason why they would lie. Should be quality tools.

I'm not sure what best suits you codejack, as others said you gotta make the choice and if it *****, buy somthing better. Just dive into it, its fun

 

[SuitorsGarage]

And I have no clue where people get this idea; Craftsman has been absolute garbage my entire adult life.

We all get it that you don't like craftsman. What everybody is saying is that craftsman is good enough to get the job done. If you can't ever get it done without destroying your craftsman tool inventory then maybe it's time to take a step back and re-evaluate what you are doing. A lot of money has been made with craftsman tools without carnage to them. I'm not a craftsman fanboy but I can tell you that if somebody couldn't get the job done in my shop with craftsman and broke as many as you say you do then they would be down the road. That's reality not a personal jab towards you. Skilled mechanics get it done with what they have and rarely break stuff. When they do it is usually abuse beyond what the tool was intended for out of necessity.

Those aren't anti-slip grooves on that wrench.

You are right. Those are classic double wrench marks that could have been avoided by using a socket and breaker bar. All of us have done that and I would bet that the wrench albeit ugly will still function. I'm pretty sure the box end held up fine.

And this is why I am so confused; when many people are giving me advice that is flatly contradictory to my own experience, I get confused, I get curious, and I try to get to the bottom of it.

See...this is where some of us are coming from also.
Nobody is meaning to **** on you, everyone wants you to succeed, we are just giving you our take on things.

Things to think about:

-Do you expect a certain amount of breakage when you perform repairs and maintenance?No, I expect to wipe my tools down and put them back ready for use the next time. I never expect to break a tool.
-Do you often find that your tools, even good ones, are stressed to the limit on relatively small bolts and parts?Nope, right tool for the job eliminates this
-Are hammers and saws two of your more important automotive tools?Experience, knowledge, and patience is more important than tools.

This is my world.

 

[Codejack]

-Do you expect a certain amount of breakage when you perform repairs and maintenance?No, I expect to wipe my tools down and put them back ready for use the next time. I never expect to break a tool.
-Do you often find that your tools, even good ones, are stressed to the limit on relatively small bolts and parts?Nope, right tool for the job eliminates this

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309007

"My first broken snap on socket"

First reply:

"It happens."

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161933

"how many Snap on tools do you break each year"

Sockets and screwdrivers were common replies.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176313

"Snap On Sockets.. Constantly cracking?"

------------------------------------

The mechanic I go to for things I can't do yet, for lack of tools, and used to use when I had more money than time, says that the only reason he buys Snap On is so he doesn't have to go to 5 different places every week to warranty tools; the truck comes to him and takes care of it all.

THAT is a valid reason to spend the extra money; everything else that I am being told is sounding completely crazy.

 

[Empty Pockets]

I voted for buying quality, but that doesn't mean tool truck tools in all cases.

Wright, SK, Williams and Proto are all quality brands, and more bang for the buck

 

[Codejack]

I voted for buying quality

User name checks out

 

[Hiball]

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=309007

"My first broken snap on socket"

First reply:

"It happens."

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161933

"how many Snap on tools do you break each year"

Sockets and screwdrivers were common replies.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=176313

"Snap On Sockets.. Constantly cracking?"

------------------------------------

The mechanic I go to for things I can't do yet, for lack of tools, and used to use when I had more money than time, says that the only reason he buys Snap On is so he doesn't have to go to 5 different places every week to warranty tools; the truck comes to him and takes care of it all.

THAT is a valid reason to spend the extra money; everything else that I am being told is sounding completely crazy.

I'm not sure if your playing coy, or you are just simply trolling, but surely you understand that it's possible to find a bad review on just about every brand/consumer good on the market. Do you really think Snap on would busting out record profits by producing tools that constantly crack? If so I bet your head is jacked now, craftsman has failed you, Snap on is no better because you found 3 threads on the interwebs. FYI No brand is immune from carnage, especially in the hands of a inexperienced mechanic or someone getting paid flat rate and occasionally you will run into a defective tool. It seems based off your other threads that you have some investment in HF, Why not transfer what you are using on your mobile kit to your "master kit"? If you intend on flipping cars, you might want to think about a torch kit, extractors, thread kit, pullers etc. Undoubtably you will run into other people's problems and need a lot of stuff above and beyond basic hand tools.

 

[Codejack]

OK, that is a more reasonable line of questioning.

I absolutely understand that every brand has bad reviews and occasional quality issues, but those threads are saying more than that: Sometimes, even the best tools break. My issue is with tools that constantly break, which has been my experience with craftsman. Other people have different experiences, but no amount of internet talk is going to convince me that what I have seen in real life is wrong.

As for the details of the kits, they have different requirements. I love my HF ratchets and sockets, but you literally cannot build a full set out of it. I don't think that they make a 20mm socket of any sort, and I went there today intending to buy a sensor/sender socket set, but the one they sell didn't have the size I needed (note: I was unable to find the correct socket anywhere in town, either individually or in a set).

I have a variety of pullers and a pretty good tap & die set, but more are on my list. I was going to add them to the shop set thread, but some things, especially the slide hammer sets, I need some serious advice on, and I had planned on asking when I get closer to actually buying them to start a separate thread.

 

[Hiball]

OK, that is a more reasonable line of questioning.

I absolutely understand that every brand has bad reviews and occasional quality issues, but those threads are saying more than that: Sometimes, even the best tools break. My issue is with tools that constantly break, which has been my experience with craftsman. Other people have different experiences, but no amount of internet talk is going to convince me that what I have seen in real life is wrong.

I don't think you are following me, so I'll start again... I've talked to and seen flat rate mechanics do some crazy stuff for the sake of speed, a lot of things done are without regard for the tool because they know it's going be warranted. People may not like it, but you start using 18" 3/8 drive ratchets the weak link is going to be found. The same can be said for new Mechanic, you could give him the best tools, but if he doesn't have the knowledge of when to approach problems outside of more leverage, stuff is going to break. If you broke 3 sockets on the same fastener, do you really think it was the tool or your approach? I'm not trying to bash you, everyone has pushed the limits of a tool from time to time. I'm guilty as charged, whether it was laziness to upsize, remove that extra obstacle or simply a poor approach. Ive had to pull out the left hand drill bits many a time, not to mention not taking enough goody out of the middle and breaking a extractor. I honestly can't for the life of me ever recall blaming a tool for breaking, (outside of those self reversing craftsman ratchets) it almost always boils down to something I should have done differently. I know it's popular here to bash brands, call import brands junk or cheap or accuse someone of drinking Kool aid. I wouldnt get hung up on brand or keyboard mechanic reviews, fill your needs with what you want to spend and go from there.

 

[lincwelder225]

It seems like you are trolling to me... If not then I apologize. Just a few thoughts/ observations-
You threw out a set of Craftsman tools 20+ years ago.. That should put you at least in your mid 30s I'm guessing. If you still are just changing oil and doing entry level jobs where you work maybe its not your lack of tools you should be worried about. More like lack of experience/judgement.

Second, you seem like you dont like any brand of tool.. Tekton was suggested.. You said that wasnt an answer but then stated you wanted a few of their tools. You've bashed Craftsman USA tools, Channel lock, and now Snap On. All of those three have been heavily used by millions of shadetree to professional to industrial mechanics with not a whole lot of complaints. When does it start being you with the problem, not the tool?

Finally in your poll, I voted 1 and 3. But a question.. Why does it have to be "off the truck"? S-K, Proto, Williams, old Bonney, K-D Easco, Napa professional, etc are all great tools. Get yourself a 3/8 set sae and metric, a few decent hammers (trusty cook comes to mind) a plier set, and sae and metric wrench set and you are on your way. Good luck!

 

[lincwelder225]

Also check ebay/Craigslist/letgo for deals on tools... Cripe distributing and hand tools for less have new old stock on a lot of Napa (K-D) professional tools. Best of luck to you!

 

[Codejack]

It seems like you are trolling to me... If not then I apologize. Just a few thoughts/ observations-
You threw out a set of Craftsman tools 20+ years ago.. That should put you at least in your mid 30s I'm guessing. If you still are just changing oil and doing entry level jobs where you work maybe its not your lack of tools you should be worried about. More like lack of experience/judgement.

I am 40; I spent 10 years in IT, then went back to school for a college degree.

If I ever had a problem with lack of judgement, it was in listening to other people tell me what to do:

"Computers are the future!" Yea, in the same way that cars were the future 100 years ago; it didn't mean that everyone needed to be a mechanic, it just meant that everyone needed to know how to drive.

"Science and Engineering are where the jobs are at!" If you mean low-paying, soul-crushing jobs doing things that actively harm the world, assuming you can even find one of those, sure.

Changing oil at a chain pays better than being a helpdesk manager or a lab technician. Even engineering jobs ****; I have a friend with a Ph.D. in Mech. Eng. from a good school, which gets him $75k. My cousin is a programmer in San Francisco, $100k, but in SF, he's living in a 600 sq. ft apartment because that's all he can afford.

The last job I was offered using my degree was teaching 100-level math, chemistry and physics at the local community college; full time, 3 semesters a year (no break), and tutoring in the math lab on the side, I could bring home almost $25,000/year.

My kids are almost grown up, my wives are long gone, and I have a house, a garage/shop, an odd assortment of tools, and 25 years to plan for retirement, if that is even a reasonable goal at this point. What else am I supposed to do?

Second, you seem like you dont like any brand of tool.. Tekton was suggested..

Oh wow!

Tekton was on my list from the beginning; it was called cheap **** by all the people that are still haranguing me. I've got the 1/2" set on my shopping list, just for the complete socket set with no skips.

I also like GearWrench, I don't have a bad opinion of Williams, and the higher end Stanley stuff has been good to me. I have a Snap On ratchet that is great, I just can't afford much more of it at the moment.

You've bashed Craftsman USA tools, Channel lock, and now Snap On.

Where did I bash Snap On? Dude was saying that he never breaks tools because he uses good ones, and I was showing that even Snap Ons break.

Channellock I really wanted to like; I found an old set in my grandad's shop and cleaned them up, but they are rusty, loose and dull. And I don't like the handles.

Craftsman is the only brand of tool that has never failed to fail me. Wrenches, sockets, pliers, tool boxes, leaf blowers, weed trimmers, pressure washers... my stupid pressure washer destroyed the frame under normal operation. It was thin sheet metal and the vibration of the motor just tore it apart.

Grandad had 3 circular saws on a shelf in the shop; a Craftsman, a Skilsaw, and a Black and Decker. The Craftsman is the only one that doesn't work, and it's still in the original box, barely used. The Skilsaw looks like it was used to fight off an army of 2x4s sent to kill his family.

I don't even know where this story ends; family kept buying Cman long after I quit, and then ask me to fix stuff, or worse, buy it for me as gifts. I could literally fill up pages with stories about Cman ****, and the only good story I have is my 1982 Craftsman lawnmower that I still use.

They did actually make good stuff, once.

Finally in your poll, I voted 1 and 3. But a question.. Why does it have to be "off the truck"? S-K, Proto, Williams, old Bonney, K-D Easco, Napa professional, etc are all great tools. Get yourself a 3/8 set sae and metric, a few decent hammers (trusty cook comes to mind) a plier set, and sae and metric wrench set and you are on your way. Good luck!

It doesn't have to be off the truck, but that is the price range that I am referring to.

And I can't even get any consensus on SK, Proto or Carlyle; some people swear by them, others (some that I know in real life) tell me that they are mediocre.

But I keep running into stuff!

Today, I needed a 29mm socket and an array of bent-nose and hose pliers. I wound up almost rounding a bolt using the closest size I could find (literally no store in town carries anything even resembling 29mm; 28mm, but not 30; I wound up using 1-1/4"), then cutting spring hose clamps that I couldn't get loose. A larger variety of screwdrivers would have helped, as well.

 

[ez-duzit]

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