Tooling organization

[tab2]

As others have said this is an all time thread for a multitude of reasons. This along with Gregor's and some others inspired me to get some green Kool Aid and build small cabinets for my small kitchen. It took way longer, was way harder than I thought, but I learned a ton.

I sent my dad to pick up material and ended up not getting pre-finished plywood so I ended up using poly. I see that you typically spray poly. Can you give some info on that?

I rolled and back brushed with decemt success but it was time consuming and not the best result. I had much better results thinning and spraying latex for the face frames and other pieces.

 

[madoc1]

just marking this to start reading.

jim

 

[lilscorpion]

Curious, do you allow extra room in your trays knowing, if you are like most of us, that your tool collection will be constantly growing?

I used to attempt to plan for the future but learned that with never enough space note do I know where my tooling tastes will go. Previously I felt it was more efficient to plan for what I have plus a few and the re-build later should the need present itself.

That being said, I've been extremely busy at work and my house projects are borderline of epic magnitude for us so I've not made much progress on the organization front in the past 2 years (about). So much had changed with how I'm using my shop and how I prefer to organize my tools that I've just started contemplating a shop re-do this summer to re-align. Just last weekend I contemplated tearing down some of my cabinets and a re-do...still contemplating with plans beginning to materialize.


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[lilscorpion]

As others have said this is an all time thread for a multitude of reasons. This along with Gregor's and some others inspired me to get some green Kool Aid and build small cabinets for my small kitchen. It took way longer, was way harder than I thought, but I learned a ton.



I sent my dad to pick up material and ended up not getting pre-finished plywood so I ended up using poly. I see that you typically spray poly. Can you give some info on that?



I rolled and back brushed with decemt success but it was time consuming and not the best result. I had much better results thinning and spraying latex for the face frames and other pieces.

Glad to hear my experiences have been of value to you. That was my primary purpose of sharing (secondary was to maintain inertia).

Like you, spraying poly for me was the only way to accomplish a pro-quality finish and that was what I really was striving for. It still took FOREVER to spray everything. Three coats applied per side allowing adequate dry time between, light sanding before each coat...IIRC, I had 20-something drawers and drawer fronts. It took me more than a month fitting it into my life spraying multiple times per week before and after work. Roller or brush would have taking much longer though. I probably would have given up.

As for setup - HVLP gun (nothing fancy) was this exact gun - Titan Tools 19018 Gravity Feed HVLP Spray Gun https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKP81M/?tag=atomicindus08-20 with a 1.5 nozzle set (can't seem to find it on Amazon now). I tried using water based Minwax Poly but it runs way too easy. Spraying it without thinning I couldn't get a buildup without a run here or there so I stuck with oil-based which I also sprayed un-thinned at 70-degrees or warmer. Any colder and your spraying goop and your nozzle will piss you off. Gun is easy to clean if you do so immediately and thoroughly and soak gun assembly in-between coats in mineral spirits. You don't have to soak it but if you spray twice a day it seems easier to do so.

Wear an adequate respirator, spray outside away from everyone, consider your toxic cloud (I liked to spray shielded from wind/breeze on a slightly breezy day as if dissipates the cloud well), and make sure wherever the pieces dry is well ventilated and fumes can't get inside. Toxic is an understatement. It is nearly impossible not to end up feeling sticky so I grew to like disposable gloves, long sleeves, pants, and a hat to cover my bald head (hair would **** worse). Even following these hints the smell will be noticeable for months after completing your cabinets. I suspect out-gassing of the poly continues for quite some time even if only a little bit. Maybe you wouldn't notice if you only sprayed a single cabinet.

Technique was learned back when painting vehicles many years ago but the concept is simple. Keep the fan a consistent distance from the material and watch your wet edge to ensure overlap. I found it was easier to see my edge in direct sunlight and much harder in the shade. I sprayed edges first and surfaces second. Doing it the other way always results in visible overspray on the surfaces. Practice helps learn your wet build limits. Early on My coats were too thin/not wet enough. Soon as I dialed it in, I kinda felt like I was making slower heavier passes.

All that said, the sheer amount of time it takes to spray makes 15% more material cost for pre-finished plywood a no-brainer. Spraying has its merits too, it does yield an extremely durable (more so than pre-finished) coating which you can build to a depth that suits your own personal tastes and fix yourself as necessary. This summer when I get to my re-do, I'll use pre-finished for the boxes and spray a color tinted clear coat on the faces and doors. On the bathroom rebuilds I learned the color tinted clear is stupid easy, water based (faster dry times, less toxic, easier to clean up), and almost impossible to screw up when applying.

~ Matt


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[lilscorpion]

It's been some time since I've shared organizational stuff in the garage and there's good reason for it - I've been incredibly busy at work, home remodel, and my first passes at furniture building. I've decided I'm going to set some goals for the thread this year and see if I can get it back on track.

It was all about Garage Organization at first but over the past two years I've realized something significant - my organization needs in my shop are evolving into something other than what they were when I first built the shop and the primary reason is that I don't use my shop the way I used to previously.

7 years ago, I was all about

• Machine Shop
• Small Item Fab
• Few Machine & Setup
• Repeat process
• Workflow
• Lean Manufacturing

All items generally stayed in the shop, were installed on a vehicle, or were shipped out/sold/whatever. In most cases, the stuff I was doing was working on the shop. All processes fit the mentality of my manufacturing business. Setups like shop carts, benches, and large cabinets with drawers are ideal because all activities are in the shop and never leave.

The way I've been using my garage for the past 7 years is

• Woodworking
• Large Item
• Multi-machine
• Multi-process
• (less) Lean Workflow

All items never stay in the shop. They go inside the house (or yard) to be installed/fitted/or whatever. Many tools need to be used inside the house, hardware taking inside the house, etc. Mobility becomes important. The shop cart and benches can't come with. Tools must be carried inside and between floors using tool bags or boxes. Hardware and other consumables must be mobile. Trips back and forth to the shop for additional tools and consumables are extremely inefficient.

Built some shelling unites in the Master Bedroom. Needed dozens of tools and a variety of consumables over the course of the two months it took me and the wife didn't want piles of tools in the bedroom in between. Every night I'd have to clean up and move the tools into the guest bedroom. After the master closet, we painted nearly the entire interior of the house and re-did the staircase.

Before:

After:

Removed all of the wallpaper and found that there were many drywall repairs, walls without texture, etc where I needed to spend time with a completely different set of tools than what I used the the closet project. The we decided to re-do the staircase. Seems the PO was a seasoned trim guy.

So yet another type of tools come out and now it's sanding and trimming out the staircase.

Followed by taping, filling, and painting

Have to wait until the weather warms up so I can spray the face frames of the cabinets and the railings on the stairs.

 

[lilscorpion]

Within the shop, woodworking demands much more work surfaces than machining and metal fabrication (the kind I've been doing). With the truck gone (oh yeah, I parted out my truck) I now have about 1 1/2 of the main part of the garage to use which is more than I've had for about 4 years. Just on the other side of the dust collector is the remaining pile of truck parts.

Ok, so back to the epiphany. Tools need to be mobile damn it. One of the most used tool setups for projects inside the house that I have was the tool caddy that goes inside a Festool Systainer.

It ended up being the most convenient way to bring a lot of tools into the house, keep them organized, and be able to move them easily out of the way at the end of the day. For hardware I have been using these bins for hardware storage.

And the portable version that can be used anywhere utilizing a sustainers

I also started converting the house over to WIFI enabled switches so I can control, program, and synchronize my lights, locks, etc. The activity was more wiring than I've done in many years and quickly I became frustrated moving the basic electrical tools around between switches so I made an electrical caddy based on the same common principles as the Sustainer Tool Caddy above except I used a Festool Systainer ToolBox.

The box has small bins so I can bring a dozen or so of each of the electrical connectors I use, any of the various pliers, electrical tools, a persuader, a flashlight, blade, pencil, screwdriver, drill, etc. The simplification was so intense, I now only need one hand to cary all of the electrical tools I could need. Game changer.

The beautiful part is how the sustainers work together (if you're not familiar). Because they're designed to be a system, you can stack and connect so they're easier to move around between jobs. Now one hand can move around both the tools, the hardware and the electrical consumables.

So 2017 will be the year of organizational mobility and how I transform the space to become bi-modal - machine and work in the shop yet flexible enough to be able to take the tools to the projects. Tool organization no matter where I decide to fabricate and build.

 

[JustinS]

Excellent. I need to do the same, carrying 4 loads of tools to the job site in the house *****.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Love those systainers!

 

[wkearney99]

I've just ordered one of the new SYS4 4-drawer units to help keep some of my 3D printer parts organized. Feeling your "wife doesn't want the tools left out" pain.

 

[Genuine GM]

First, I've been following this thread for years. It's been very inspirational. I see an MFT, how do you like it?

For the real question. In the tool tote, what are the handles with the red, blue, and yellow end caps? They look like putty knives, but that seems like an awful lot for the average job. Unless they're different sized tape and bed knifes.

 

[Dragster Racer]

Well its going to take time to read all of this. I noticed the OP has a sawstop table saw. I worked at a cabinet company that had probably 15 of them. Never one single blade accident in the years I was there. Great product.

 

[250]

Just when you think you're done, you're not. Organization just makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I've really enjoyed what you've done this far.

 

[lilscorpion]

I've just ordered one of the new SYS4 4-drawer units to help keep some of my 3D printer parts organized. Feeling your "wife doesn't want the tools left out" pain.

The SYS4 is awesome. I got one a few months ago. What's really nice about it is it can be on the bottom of a stack and you don't need to move anything to get to it.

This sortainer makes it much easier to keep smaller things accessible yet organized. One drawer has all of my measuring, marking, laser level, stud finder, etc.

some gauges, alien sets, clamps

drill and impact, drill bit set, hole saw set, and batteries.

I'm going to reorganize this at some point but for now it's been handy. It always comes in side for every project thus far.

 

[lilscorpion]

First, I've been following this thread for years. It's been very inspirational. I see an MFT, how do you like it?



For the real question. In the tool tote, what are the handles with the red, blue, and yellow end caps? They look like putty knives, but that seems like an awful lot for the average job. Unless they're different sized tape and bed knifes.

The MFT is very nice. I don't use my trac saw very often, I use it mostly for squaring sheets that aren't manageable on the table saw. The rest of the time it's really a multi-purpose bench.

What I use much more frequently is my own home-brew Paulk inspired torsion bench on a 8020 frame.

What makes it better is the lack of the trac saw fence stuff and it's a little wider, little longer, has space for storage under it, is more stable, and has a much more resilient surface (laminate). The laminate surface makes it more ideal for glue-ups and other activities where the MFT's MDF surface absorbs, stains, and get's damaged much more easily.



What I like the most about the MFT is the machined holes in the top allow for many different types of fixturing.

For the real question. In the tool tote, what are the handles with the red, blue, and yellow end caps? They look like putty knives, but that seems like an awful lot for the average job. Unless they're different sized tape and bed knifes.

I have two setups for my knives. This box has all of what I consider general purpose. The other box has all of my drywall specific ones 3"-12". Within this set, Yellow is super flexible and gets used for true putty repair in drywall, wood, etc where I'm really pushing the mud into a small hole. The red knives on the right are extremely stiff. Great for scraping and almost chisel-like activities. The blue knives are closer in the spectrum to the yellow yet more stiff. I use them on denser fillers, caulking, etc. I probably use the blues more often than any of them. I almost always try to use the bigger ones and reserve the smaller ones for the little ****. I've considered narrowing the smaller ones up a little on the grinder but haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[lilscorpion]

Today I made the first major step towards re-organizing the shop. When I first placed the mill I put it in the back corner of the garage. I needed it to be in the corner so I could get into the CNC control cabinet which is attached to the back of the mill.

The location was alright. I had enough room to go from stop to stop on the mill but I wasn't able to cut parts any longer than 4-something to either side of the spindle. To the left the length was constrained by the machinist box and to the right, the back wall. It was a pain in the **** walking around behind it though. The space between it and the wall was so limited that you had to almost shimmy between it and the tool-box and then between it and the wall. As a result, I never really did take advantage of the shelving behind it and to the left which is a total waste of space. After some pondering I decided to french the mill into the shelf itself and tuck it as far back in as possible.

From tail to the x-axis hand wheel it's 60-inches. The shelves are 24-inches deep so once it's in the hole it will only interfere with the walk-way by 36-inches which is much better than the whole thing being in the walk-way.

So here's the before

After moving my horizontal bandsaw and the welder next to the mill, I still can still open my tool box's drawers full width which is awesome. Previously I couldn't pull them open more than 1/2 way unless I moved the bandsaw.

Lot's of **** in the back half of a tandem but much better that it was before. I can access my tooling drawers more easily, my toolbox more easily, the shelving more easily.

 

[csp]

I should PM you my phone number. I'd come help move equipment on a lazy Sunday.

 

[lilscorpion]

I should PM you my phone number. I'd come help move equipment on a lazy Sunday.

I have a monster pry bar which made it not super difficult even with my wrecked shoulder. May need your help getting the damn thing up on the leveling feet in the spring though. I'm not sure I know how I'm gonna do it to be honest. Maybe I'll buy beers and you can help me with the engineerin' when it comes time.

I'll PM you mine so you have it and you can text me back when you get a chance.

 

[csp]

One of my tractors may be helpful when the time comes. Sent you a return PM.

 

[mr_magicfingers]

Just started the slippery slope of festool acquisition which was due to Gregor's and your threads on here. The sys4 looks very neat, Ididn't know they made those. Like you, my trips back and forth from the house to the workshop are time consuming, my shop is in a barn 100 yards from the house. I've been looking at the MFT cart that someone on the festool forum built, looks like a very neat unit to have when working away from the shop and might be something I build before the next big project of a wall of shelves and cabinets in the living room.

 

[lilscorpion]

Just started the slippery slope of festool acquisition which was due to Gregor's and your threads on here. The sys4 looks very neat, Ididn't know they made those. Like you, my trips back and forth from the house to the workshop are time consuming, my shop is in a barn 100 yards from the house. I've been looking at the MFT cart that someone on the festool forum built, looks like a very neat unit to have when working away from the shop and might be something I build before the next big project of a wall of shelves and cabinets in the living room.

You should check out the MFTC chart which combines the sustainer and the mobile tool cart for a mobile work-bench solution.

I'm mid-build on making 2 of them and I'll add details once I get a little closer. Overall it's a sweet way to have immediate access to your tools and a multi-function work surface. Perfect for having a work station everywhere your tools need to be.

 

[WhoWhatNow]

You should check out the MFTC chart which combines the sustainer and the mobile tool cart for a mobile work-bench solution.

I'm mid-build on making 2 of them and I'll add details once I get a little closer. Overall it's a sweet way to have immediate access to your tools and a multi-function work surface. Perfect for having a work station everywhere your tools need to be.

I was going to mention that. I started building one over the summer. It is usable but not complete yet. I love it. It is a great fit in my tiny shop. He put a lot of thought into making it very versatile.

 

[kf4zht]

I've been learning the value of "kits" for working on the house and barn. Much easier when you can just grab 1-2 boxes than 10 different things. You do end up needing a few more tools but its usually stuff you have in the spares bin

Don't have systainer money so I've been trying the Ridgid Pro toolboxes from Home Depot. http://www.homedepot.com/s/ridgid%20pro%20tool%20box?NCNI-5

So far I like them for the most part
Pros -
Very sturdy, can use them as a step-stool without worry
Handles are large and easy to grab
lock together well
cart option without much cost
2 fit side by side in the back of my jeep

Cons
Smell like china when you buy them
no drawer options
only sold by HD, may go away one day

 

[bixxjs]

Looks really great,it is time saving and it's obviously easier to find a particular tool for a specific job.
I work in a very lean orientated organisation so our work stations are all about 5S and kaizen.
That's why at home in my own garage I throw Caution to the Wind!

 

[lilscorpion]

I've been learning the value of "kits" for working on the house and barn. Much easier when you can just grab 1-2 boxes than 10 different things. You do end up needing a few more tools but its usually stuff you have in the spares bin

Don't have systainer money so I've been trying the Ridgid Pro toolboxes from Home Depot. http://www.homedepot.com/s/ridgid%20pro%20tool%20box?NCNI-5

So far I like them for the most part
Pros -
Very sturdy, can use them as a step-stool without worry
Handles are large and easy to grab
lock together well
cart option without much cost
2 fit side by side in the back of my jeep

Cons
Smell like china when you buy them
no drawer options
only sold by HD, may go away one day

Don't think it matters what brand you're using to be honest. I got locked into Systainers because I started buying Festool and that's what they come in. There's more than a few manufacturers that are jumping on the container organization wagon. Dewalt, Rigid, Bostitch, Stanley, Bosch, etc all have solutions that are following closely to the sustainer-like trend. After experiencing it, stackable tool and hardware organization really makes more sense for both professional and home DIY'er than other storage strategies I've used in the past because of how flexible they are. Makes sense the market is responding.

Not sure about the China smell.

 

[kf4zht]

Not sure about the China smell.

Basically that plastic smell that most HF tools come with or a brand new bag of rubber fishing lures. I think its the plastic outgassing and sitting in a delivery truck and then the store closed up makes it build up.

The plastic is thicker and more foam like. Think Pelican case instead of the systainer.

I do like the 2 systainers I have for my vacuum and tracksaw. I really like them all clipping on the top of the vac.

 

[wkearney99]

Don't think it matters what brand you're using to be honest. I got locked into Systainers because I started buying Festool and that's what they come in. There's more than a few manufacturers that are jumping on the container organization wagon. Dewalt, Rigid, Bostitch, Stanley, Bosch, etc all have solutions that are following closely to the sustainer-like trend. After experiencing it, stackable tool and hardware organization really makes more sense for both professional and home DIY'er than other storage strategies I've used in the past because of how flexible they are. Makes sense the market is responding.

Agreed, but once you're into one 'system' it becomes problematic to switch. The ability to stack them onto a cart with casters or use a handcart is great. One of my Systainer stacks acts as a temporary outfeed/support when cutting larger pieces.

I'm tempted to consider the Dewalk TStak because they've got one with some shallower drawers. This being potentially more efficient that Festool, and cheaper too. But I'm not had a chance to 'lay hands' on one to gauge whether the plastic is tolerable/durable enough for me.

The Festool ones are great, I just picked up a 4-drawer Sortainer. But they're deep enough to be 'wasting space' if you're looking for flat, single-layer organizing. Otherwise deeper drawers just become more places for **** to accumulate.

 

[lilscorpion]

Agreed, but once you're into one 'system' it becomes problematic to switch.

That's why manufacturers like the trend. Once they got you...

If I wasn't into festool, I'd probably not go all Systainer. The standard Systainers aren't really that cool themselves, it's up to us to make organizers which make them cool. That being said, I could make organizers for any container.

The stackable part is cool.

Facts are simple, I drank the cool aid.



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[Strouty]

Sometimes the kool aid is just what you need.

 

[utahdog2003]

Sometimes the kool aid is just what you need.

and Euro-trash Kool Aid is the best!

 

[lilscorpion]

Starting moving things around today. Added french creates to the bottom of both of the MFT's. The corners have gotten fairly beat up moving the tables around so having a replaceable buffer will be nice.

And added some cleats to the back wall so I can hang them while not in use. Here's the router table next to the router fence. they're up a bout 5 1/2 feet off the floor so they're really out of the way. Torsion box design makes them easily liftable.

Mounted the MFT assembly/fab table the exact same way.

And mounted the aluminum extrusion table base below the router table so it's out of the way

Finally I mounted the lower shelf to the face of the MFT using a single clamp. All of the parts are now together, up, and out of the way.

 

[mr_magicfingers]

I saw that while browsing the festool forum and have a plan to build one before starting on the big run of cabinets. Having a mobile worktable I can move around in the house will be very useful indeed and safe many trips to the main workshop up in the barn. Will be interested to see your build details when it's done.

 

[250]

Up and out of the way, nice.

 

[lilscorpion]

Got back to the re-organization efforts. Now i want to create some space on the wall so I can mount my 80/20 assembly table, my MFT horses, and my Festool MFT3. To do that I've decided to move the left hand set of cabinets on the wall

To the opposite wall right next to the garage door. At this time I've kept most of my yard tools on this wall which worked well in the past when I had the garage to myself but when my wife starts to park in the garage, they're going to become a door dent risk.

Since space is tight, I'm frequently moving piles of stuff to gain access to a space I wish to organize which is a PITA. With the mess moved out of the way, I can now start hanging cabinets on the wall.

and after moving all 3, getting them screwed together, and screwed into the wall, they're moved and level.

 

[lilscorpion]

Here's a trick i've learned about hanging cabinets. I run a 2x4 that's both level and at the desired height of the bottom of the cabinets, locate a few studs and attach it to the wall getting it level with a digital level. Then I measure where the first cabinet is going to be and mark it on the 2x4. Then I locate the studs and mark where they are along the base of the 2x4 effectively creating the offsets on the 2x4 under the cabinet.

I then measure the offset from the starting line to the centerline of the stud

Take that measurement to the cabinet and mark on the face (use tape if the frames of the cabinets are finished) with that offset. If you have face frames you need to include the overhang edge of the frame.

Then move the tip of the ruler to the inside of the cabinet and re-measure back to your mark. This will be the inside offset of the stud. You could just subtract the width of the plywood but as I've learned, not all plywood has the same thickness so you can avoid assumptions by measuring for each cabinet.

Take that measurement to the back of the cabinet, pre-drill, and hammer down.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Here's a trick i've learned about hanging cabinets.

Great post. Most guys (like me) would figure that out after we were done and the cabinets were all crooked, falling down or up the wall as they went along, and we'd have 25 holes in the back of the cabinet where we'd missed the studs!

 

[lilscorpion]

One of the things I dislike about my floating shelves at the back of the shop is that everything on them is in clear sight. When I was parting out my truck, anyone in my shop could see (in plain sight) a pile of fairly expensive parts - EFI, electronic controllers, etc. As I was moving things around the shop it occurred to me that a far better place to put parts like that would be above the garage door. When it's open it would effectively hide stuff that I don't want others to (easily) see.

So I pulled out some left over material from another project and got busy. Tops and sides are machined out of 3/4-inch furniture grade baltic birch. A Dado is machined 1/2-inch off the back of the inside of the tops and the sides to accommodate the 1/2-inch cabinet back and machined dominos to ease the assembly process.

I machined up all of the material I have into a pile so I could start assembling.

For efficiency purposes I usually I a single step over and over for all cabinets at once but in this case I decided to build each cabinet to completion and hang them on the wall as I go. Doing so prevents the need to trip over them especially since space is limited.

Here's with three mounted.

By cabinet #3 I realized 3 things -

1. I'm about 4 cabinets short, I need more wood so I'll have to wait until next weekend.
2. When I'm done these cabinets are going to hold a $-ton of stuff and are strong enough to support 5 gallon buckets of fluid (though I will want to add some supports under the centers just in case)
3. I'm going to have to come up with a different way to store my tall ladders and I'm going to have to figure that out before I finish the cabinet install (bummer)

 

[lilscorpion]

Great post. Most guys (like me) would figure that out after we were done and the cabinets were all crooked, falling down or up the wall as they went along, and we'd have 25 holes in the back of the cabinet where we'd missed the studs!

From time to time I still miss thanks to framers having a different definition of "straight" and "accurate". I only really give a **** when I'm hanging cabinets. It's about the only time I try to seat screws (semi)blind.

 

[Jo Diesel]

Why not hang your ladder on the ceiling. Room right next do door opener. Couple of bicycle hooks on one end Couple of pulleys and rope on other end. Run rope down next to door track where you can reach it. Never know it was there.

 

[lilscorpion]

Why not hang your ladder on the ceiling. Room right next do door opener. Couple of bicycle hooks on one end Couple of pulleys and rope on other end. Run rope down next to door track where you can reach it. Never know it was there.

That's what I was thinking. Right now it's completely wasted space. I have some left over uni-strut so I was thinking of mounting it to the ceiling then welding some custom hangers to hang the ladders on so it can be easily reconfigured in the future as my needs change.


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[wkearney99]

Why not hang your ladder on the ceiling. Room right next do door opener. Couple of bicycle hooks on one end Couple of pulleys and rope on other end. Run rope down next to door track where you can reach it. Never know it was there.

Just keep in mind having enough length/space to get the ladders down when you need them. As in, requiring the car to be out of the spot and the door closed. Had a friend get all clever with a similar rig and neglected to consider the amount of hassle it took to get things out of the way... Just bear it in mind.