Tooling (Re)Organization

[BoilermakerFan]

Subscribed! Looking forward to this evolution...

 

[stioc]

So you’re saying that if I didn’t buy tools I wouldn’t need them to build things to organize them?! Hell...never looked at it from that angle.

Hmm

I never woulda had to organize in the first place which would have prevented me from needing to re-organize.

Which would mean...

I could technically have a smaller garage AND my wife would easily be able to park in it which would make her happier.

Did my wife put you up to this?!?

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Haha! No, that was about me, where I go thinking "oh with a table saw i could build cabinets for the house" but I end up just building jigs, sleds, tool storage for the table-saw itself and then it gets tucked away because by that time I've found another tool to fixate on...hello mill...hello lathe...hello lift...hello labscope...hello plasma cutter...on and on. It really is a disease

In your case you actually do use your tools to do the house upgrades/remodels etc

 

[lilscorpion]

Haha! No, that was about me, where I go thinking "oh with a table saw i could build cabinets for the house" but I end up just building jigs, sleds, tool storage for the table-saw itself and then it gets tucked away because by that time I've found another tool to fixate on...hello mill...hello lathe...hello lift...hello labscope...hello plasma cutter...on and on. It really is a disease

In your case you actually do use your tools to do the house upgrades/remodels etc

I was giving you a hard time. Actually, you’re point is valid. Many times I’ve thought it quite ironic that I e used my tools so much to work on the shop. More than once I’ve purchased tools and tooling that will likely never be used for anything else - e.g. I think I purchased nearly 2 dozen ball mills of various sizes for milking drawer organizers. My OCD hasn’t put a price on organization yet but I could probably calculate a total. [emoji12]

I do upgrades and remodels because I haven’t found someone else who can execute and meet my expectations (aka when I screw up it is what it is, when someone I pay screws up they’re incompetent). I assure you it’s work with a slight sense of accomplishment.


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[Southernbuild]

I await following this new thread, with much anticipation. Your original Tooling Organization thread is one of my top three favorite threads on the Garage Journal. Thank you for taking the effort to take us on this journey with you.

 

[rburke65]

Now THATS organizations! Very nice.

 

[EOC_Jason]

His level of organization makes me look like a sloppy hobo... lol

 

[lilscorpion]

Garage Tour Part 3:

Now for the work bench. This is three separate drawer bases that are lined up, and function, as a single unit with a 8’2"x25” work surface. Above the bench is three floating shelves that attach to the french cleat system. I added the floating shelves to help minimize what I needed to put on the work surface. Both the floating shelves and the upper cabinet have LED light strips shining down so no shadows.

I built these bases and drawer assemblies a few months after the two over by the lathe (Shop tour part 1) and I already was having second thoughts about using only 1/2-inch baltic birch, glue, and narrow crown staples for the drawer assemblies. As a result, this bench's drawers were made much beefier - 3/4-inch baltic birch sides, 1/2-inch baltic birch bottoms, and fully glued and screwed assemblies. This drawer will give you an idea of what they're capable of holding - easily the heaviest drawer in the entire bench.

here are a few of the other notable organization setups in this bench - this one is where I keep my project spray guns.

I ended up with a mess of medicine bottles which use to keep smaller quantities of hardware. I made a rack to hold them out of some left over HDPE.

Here’s the electrical drawer which has a single slide out sub-drawer. I like the concept but, as it turns out, what you put below the drawer is stuff you NEVER use. I could probably throw it all away and never miss it.

Cabinets over the bench are the same construction as the rest of the cabinets. White Melamine boxes with baltic birch face frames.

I’ve made a series of bins which I use for bulk hardware storage. Works well but most if it ends up long-term storage and really doesn't need to take up shelf space.

Alright..we've made it through the back-side of the tandem. I'm sure you'll all agree that’s a lot of stuff in a single car garage and that it took way too long recapping such a small space.

 

[lilscorpion]

Day 1 - Fab Space

I tend to do all fabrication in the 2 car right in front of the space I just walked you through. If you've followed along on the old thread, you may remember that when I left off I was attempting to re-organize the main wall which started out like this

I wanted to get all of my fabrication tables and MFT Horses up on the wall so I moved the cabinets above to the opposite car stall so I could use the space to do so.

One of my challenges with my workspace is how I access my various woodworking tools while fabricating. Most of what I have now is Festool, and the come in modular cases (called Sustainers), but they are difficult to move around when stacked. When I'm in fab mode I move the stacks out to the workspace and open them up as I need the tools. Because it's difficult to put the tools away I had a tendency to keep all of them out until I was completely done (like weeks).

Second problem was when I went to put them away, I had to store the stack somewhere. Since I have a bunch of fab to do on the remodel, this seemed like a good spot to start. The Festool guys build these shelves for sustainers that are called SysPorts. Each systainer gets it's own shelf and the shelves are either fixed or on drawer slides. This allows you to get at any one tool without having to move any of the others. Fortunately they're about as easy as it gets so it only took me a few hours to make a decent size stack.

If you notice above, the height of the sustainers vary so it's difficult to make perfect stacks work out. The far left one managed to be nearly perfect. The other two had gaps. After being irritated for a few minutes I realized that I didn't have to only put sustainers in them and I decided to store my Multi Function Table (MFT) attachments on some sliding trays I machined out of some pre-finished 1/2-inch baltic birch.

I just barely had enough space to fit both trays loaded with the implements.

Top tray stores the tall and horizontal auto-clamps and has provisions for some of the Knobs once I get the correct sized bolts.

Bottom tray holds the shorter auto clamps, more knobs, and the clamping elements.

What's nice is that I have enough room on top of them to store my vac and vac system.

It's so nice having everything easily accessible now. I've also found that the sustainers, when remaining closed, make for nice temporary shelves for drills and other items you need out of the way in the moment. Best part is that all of it quickly goes away when I'm done using it. It's so easy to tear down, I can now do it and put the car in every evening...progress!

 

[brownbagg]

thats not a shop, thats a warehouse

 

[250]

I understand the desire to have things match/symmetrical, but that sysport looks good.

 

[lilscorpion]

Ok, end of weekend 1. Yesterday was spent prepping and today I dove head first in. Before I show the progress, I'm going to put together a list of things I want to change about the shop. I'm sure I'll come up with more.

1. Increase work surfaces (literally) without eating up more of the shop space
2. I need to be able to get 2 cars in the garage (I'm tired of receiving divorce threats)
3. Come up with a better way to use the various router plate insert tools. The "Router Buddies" are neat but are difficult to use with larger parts. These tools are the Portercable oscillating sander, dewalt portable band saw, and a router. I need to be able to use 2 of them at a time but be able to put all 3 of them away when not in use.
4. When re-doing the cabinets, attempt to re-use the countertops (the laminate is still essentially brand new)
5. More light
6. Expand my tooling bench to hold all my tool holders and maybe a few for expansion.
7. Decrease the depth of the cabinets over the lathe. The ones that are there today hang over the lathe too much and make the back area feel smaller than it is.
8. Re-do how the lathe tooling is stored and accessed making it more friendly for multiple operations (tool changes)
9. Optimize storage space in cabinets and drawers (less dead space)
10. Eliminate my 26"W craftsman box.
11. Replace my 41" Craftsman box with a drawer chest that's attached to the wall (so it can't tip forward when the drawers are open.
12. More Drawers
13. My large squares, straight edges, and other layout tools need a drawer that's big enough for them to be easily accessible yet protected.
14. I've gotten into Festool tooling and tacos sustainers so my new storage systems should accommodate Systainers.
15. Anything I add should be moveable. This house likely won't be the last and the cabinets I have today can't be moved which was dumb.
16. The lathe, the mill, and the shelves aren't moving (unless I have a lightbulb moment)

I'll probably add to this as I go but it's a good start.

Approach

More or less, I'm going to replace all of the cabinets. I've gone back and forth a few times and I think I can do much better and, if I'm going to change them, I might as well do so now. Also, if I change how I store things in them I can probably move in all of the tools that are in the Craftsman 26-inch tool box and chest or get really really close. Since tool accessibility and shop surfaces are kinda important during the shop build I think I'll start with building a new workbench.

What I have right now is a 16-drawer base. Most of the drawers have nearly the same dimensions (length, depth, and height).

Getting Started

I've decided that the first best step is to move the base cabinets out of the way and to a place where I can still easily access them. This will allow me to have the additional space to move things around and store items temporarily as well as take some better measurements as I pull them out. I started by removing the top which exposes the top of the cabinets.

One at a time I remove the drawers (some are much heavier than others, and move the cabinets to an adjacent wall. As it turns out, the cabinets were not screwed into the wall nor were they screwed into each other. Kinda surprised I installed them like this. Fully extending a 24” deep heavy drawer could have caused the cabinets to move but I suppose that having the entire assembly under a 100-inch long counter top kept them somewhat together.

Decided to snap a few pics that show how simple the construction of them was. Material is 3/4-inch White Melamine. Face frames were thin cut strips of 3/4-inch baltic birch ply that were glued and brad nailed to the fronts of the cabinets and then given 3 coats of polyurethane.

Backs of the cabinets showed the joinery. Sides were dado’d and the assembly has no back brace or nail boards to prevent them from racking. All boards are also glued and screwed so that helps with strength (a little).

This assembly is really heavy and that’s mostly due to the weight of the melamine but it also has something to do with using 1-piece tops and spreaders between every drawer. With that cabinet out of the way I have one remaining.

I inspected every cabinet to see just how well they faired up against the weight I made them handle. All of the drawers were fitted with 100lb drawer slides with the front screw attached to the baltic birch face frame and two more attached to the melamine. I was impressed to find that none of the screws which attached the slides into the cabinets were stripped out or missing except for one in the last cabinet.

After making the repair, I moved the last cabinet into place and used some OSB to temporarily attach all of the cabinets together and double as a make-shift countertop.

With the cabinets out of the way, I now have exposed the base and all of the garbage that had found it’s way under the cabinet assembly since I installed it. I was kinda surprised to see just how little had collected under there. Check out the 1 1/2-inch x 24-inch boring bar, that thing is a monster!

I expected to sweep up much more **** than I did. Small pile.

Now there's just the base which can easily be moved out of the way should I need to use the space.

Not feeling like I made much progress this weekend but it's a start. Next week I'll start in on the base cabinet.

 

[lilscorpion]

I understand the desire to have things match/symmetrical, but that sysport looks good.

Thanks. I'll admit that the initial intent was to just get the sustainers out of stacks and make the tools easier to use but, you're right, I really really like the way they look. It almost ended up a focal point of the shop.

 

[EOC_Jason]

How big is your garage? It looks huge from all the stuff / pics but my best guess is it's one of those "L" shaped 3-car tandem garages?

 

[carnutdallas]

How about a dimensional diagram of the shop. Whip it up on your CAD for us, so we can better visualize and analyze. LOL


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[lilscorpion]

How big is your garage? It looks huge from all the stuff / pics but my best guess is it's one of those "L" shaped 3-car tandem garages?

Yep, L-shaped tandem with a pair of those single garage doors that are just wide enough to clear a mirror on either side of the car (most of the time). I’d guess it’s about ~750 sq/ft.


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[lilscorpion]

During the week, between efforts, I spend a considerable amount of time working through my future plans. This go-around I figured I'd tap into the considerable expertise and experience on the GJ forum and see if I can't spark the direction for the next efforts. Here's this weeks --

Concept: I know that historically I've stuck to the HDPE socket organizers (similar to the Mechanics Time Savers) however I've realized that they're too tailored to the actual sockets (exact size).

I don't like spring rails because the springs lose their tension, they don't stand up on their own, and they're not that fancy (yeah important I know) -

I do like the Lisle ones but the handle gets in the way and the magnetic portions tend to attract **** (in my shop at least) and the individual socket holders constrain what you can put in them. Forget it if you have a socket set with 16 pieces and the tray only accommodates 14. You can't easily put another "tray" next to this one and handle it.

As a result, I'm considering other approaches like how the Westling Machine socket racks use studs.

I can't use their racks because I'd like mine to fit my socket sets perfectly and within my drawers so I'm thinking of building my own. So here's the homework:

1. Are there other designs I should consider?
2. Do you have connections with a CNC that I could leverage to get the dowels made at a more competative cost?
3. Any other idea where I could source the dowels from?
4. Should i just skip the tray idea and keep going forward with HDPE trays (and get over it)?

TIA

 

[cheechi]

The Westling trays are as perfect as you're going to get in that 'open' style (not set sizes) far as I have ever seen. I use two of them for hex/torx impact sockets, for instance.

 

[lilscorpion]

The Westling trays are as perfect as you're going to get in that 'open' style (not set sizes) far as I have ever seen. I use two of them for hex/torx impact sockets, for instance.

Damn it, that's what I figured. What are the dowel diameters? I'm expecting them to be somewhere between .020 and .030 undersized.

e.g. a 1/2-inch socket would have a .470 stud.

Also, how tall are they? I'm expecting the 1/2-inch stud to be somewhere between 1/2-inches tall and 5/8-inches tall.

 

[bj383ss]

So on the Westling trays that you want to make does the stud have to be metal. I made mine from dowel rod. What if you made your studs from HDPE you turned on the lathe? Then you would have control of diameter and height.

Bret

 

[tomtomgt356]

I made my own version of the Westling trays with scrap plywood and 3/8" dowel rod. It works great and only took 30 minutes with scrap pieces.

 

[Prometheus]

Any way you could do something like the Ernst twist lock rails?

http://www.ernstmfg.com/Twist-Lock-Socket-Organizers.aspx.

You just add you remove clips as needed. One of the best solutions I've seen.

 

[lilscorpion]

So on the Westling trays that you want to make does the stud have to be metal. I made mine from dowel rod. What if you made your studs from HDPE you turned on the lathe? Then you would have control of diameter and height.

Bret

I was contemplating making them out of HDPE. If I did I could gang machine them to length (like 6 at once in the vice) on the mill because it cuts like butter. Length can be cut on the miter saw. Would certainly go faster.

There might be benefits to having the studs made out of plastic and the bases made out of aluminum. I’d have to think it through. Cosmetically it would be easy to differentiate the metric from the SAE racks though Colors other than white and black aren’t readily available through my usual providers. I’m sure that could be solved by looking. Contrast would be pleasing.

Seems like a good idea to prototype. Thanks for the recommendation.


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[lilscorpion]

I made my own version of the Westling trays with scrap plywood and 3/8" dowel rod. It works great and only took 30 minutes with scrap pieces.

Wood would be the easiest but I feel resistant to using wood. For the most part it’s because wood absorbs water and tools are metal. If there’s moisture on the tool when it’s put away (e.g. end mill that still has some residual coolant on it after coming out of the machine), the tool can rust. That’s the primary reason why I made my R8 rack out of HDPE.

Last night I was researching CNC routers and lasers so maybe I do need to consider expanding my possible materials to wood and foam..


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[lilscorpion]

Any way you could do something like the Ernst twist lock rails?

http://www.ernstmfg.com/Twist-Lock-Socket-Organizers.aspx.

You just add you remove clips as needed. One of the best solutions I've seen.

I could probably use them out of the box just like In using the Mechanics Time Savers today. I should consider the price point of these two solutions as I look at it from the make aspect. It’s possible, given the investment I’ve already made, that just getting more is the best approach. Not custom though but maybe that’s not important.


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[EOC_Jason]

If I were to do this, I would have reversed the 2nd row, that would have allowed more space between socket rows to grab them easier, or you could have made them closer together and used a smaller piece of material. But that's just me...

Concept: I know that historically I've stuck to the HDPE socket organizers (similar to the Mechanics Time Savers) however I've realized that they're too tailored to the actual sockets (exact size).

 

[lilscorpion]

If I were to do this, I would have reversed the 2nd row, that would have allowed more space between socket rows to grab them easier, or you could have made them closer together and used a smaller piece of material. But that's just me...

Agreed but, I have an excuse. One challenge I realized last time was that I had to have some level of consistency when it came to the width dimension of the trays or they wouldn’t nest in the drawers well and I’d end up with strange spots of unusable space. This particular tray was set to width and was veritable on length. As a result there was no need to get creative on nesting and, as luck would have it, repeating the program is less effort than rotating it directly at the console. So, simple version is it space optimization didn’t matter and I was being lazy as a result.

And, part 2 - The socket trays that have machines profiles exactly the same dimension to the socket it’ll hold is much more difficult to machine both at the console and in Cad. The Wesling design is essentially just a bunch of plotted holes all of the same/uniform dimension which is trivial in cad and at the console.






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[boiler7904]

Subscribed. Can't wait to see what you come up with.

I've had Westling socket organizers for a couple of years now and my biggest complaint about them is that trays for each socket drive size is a different length. Fitting them all into a drawer in a logical way turns into Toolbox Tetris. They're there but I'm not happy about the results.

 

[lilscorpion]

...turns into Toolbox Tetris. They're there but I'm not happy about the results.

I almost called it that too, that’s exactly how it feels. Part of my re-organization goal is to figure out how to optimize all internal drawer space too and, at the same time, make the organization of the drawer make sense. You know, like keeping the 3/8’s sockets going in a logical order so a given socket is easier thus faster to find. Difficult to do that when your constrained to certain shapes and sizes where certain sockets only fit in specific places within a rack.

This is helping. I’m getting ideas.



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[lilscorpion]

Was curious on what size dowel I’d need to use so I pulled a few measurements on a variety of 1/2-inch sockets and they’re all about the same - roughly .506-.508 across the flats.



Grabbed a 1/2-inch drill bit and the socket is clearly oversized.



I suspect 1/2-inch material would be sufficient and it’s readily available. 3/8’s and 1/4 aren’t so I’d have to switch to Acetal/Delrin, Teflon, or Nylon. Pros and cons of each but they may work for the application. Any plastic @ 1/4-inch may just end up entertaining to work with.


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[EOC_Jason]

You have a lathe... That would be an excuse enough for me to turn some aluminum!

I understand you are trying to make it as easy as possible and cost effective.

 

[lilscorpion]

You have a lathe... That would be an excuse enough for me to turn some aluminum!

I understand you are trying to make it as easy as possible and cost effective.

I don’t use the lathe as much as I’d like but, I’m this case, I’m thinking that if I had to turn and chamfer two faces of a dowel that would require chucking twice and 4 tool changes per dowel. I haven’t counted but I’m guessing I have more than 500 sockets (and I’m probably short on that count) that are in the drawers and maybe 100 that aren’t (specialty big guns stuff). That would likely take all weekend every weekend for a month.

If I could fixture 16 or so at a time in the mill then I could face in one op, change tools and chamfer in a second op. Same number of chuck positioning, reduces the tool changes by 1/16th and the mill does all the work. Now if I could find an OD Chamfer Mill...




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[lilscorpion]

I made my own version of the Westling trays with scrap plywood and 3/8" dowel rod. It works great and only took 30 minutes with scrap pieces.

After further contemplation, moisture wouldn’t be an issue if the wood was sealed. I’m now considering this as an option. It would be, I believe, the fastest way to build the trays and likely the cheapest.


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[XJSuperman]

Did anyone mention 3D printing?

 

[lilscorpion]

Did anyone mention 3D printing?

No. I presently don’t have a 3D printer and I wouldn’t know how to find a good one. Do you have experience to get me through that learning curve? Printing them would be cool, I’d learnt something new, and I have a new capability in the shop.

I do know the longest tray I’d want to make is 22”. Knowing g my luck it would take a $10k machine to make a part that big..


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[XJSuperman]

No. I presently don’t have a 3D printer and I wouldn’t know how to find a good one. Do you have experience to get me through that learning curve? Printing them would be cool, I’d learnt something new, and I have a new capability in the shop.

I do know the longest tray I’d want to make is 22”. Knowing g my luck it would take a $10k machine to make a part that big...

No, I don't have the experience but I know a few people who have purchased personal models and make random things all the time. I think a few hundred dollars would get you a working printer that would fit your needs, and if your budget allows, it only gets better from there on up. We had one at college that we could use as we pleased, but I was on my way out and too busy to take advantage of it. They were uploading CAD files all the time and making models, prototypes, and tractor parts.

I know you can get different colored materials and vary the texture but I haven't actually gotten my hands on one myself. You don't have to manufacture the parts horizontally, you could print 22" vertically if the machine was tall enough. It may be easier to gain that height than horizontal reach.

I agree wood would be the cheapest and maybe most simple method, but if you can justify it, a 3d printer would be a handy tool to add to the shop. Its on of those things all your friends will want you to make something on for them when they see what it can do!

Or you could send dimensions/CAD file to a 3d printing service. Not as satisfying as owning the tool yourself, but it should still be affordable.

 

[zr52002]

I've taken this on to a degree!

https://imgur.com/g4zmI0o

It's not practical to print a whole drawer at a time - common printers are not nearly that big, and each tray would take forever to print. I think it's handier to do this in 6-8 inch modules anyway - none of mine are nearly as big as my printer could do.

I have a Prusa i3mk2 - of course you'd want the mk3 if you got one today https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-prusa-i3-mk3-kit.html

It doesn't come through great in the pictures here, but everything with a size has that size 3d-printed into the plastic. I would really like to get the multi-material upgrade for my printer so I could print the bottom of the text in a contrasting color so they'd show up better.

No. I presently don’t have a 3D printer and I wouldn’t know how to find a good one. Do you have experience to get me through that learning curve? Printing them would be cool, I’d learnt something new, and I have a new capability in the shop.

I do know the longest tray I’d want to make is 22”. Knowing g my luck it would take a $10k machine to make a part that big..


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[lilscorpion]

I've taken this on to a degree!

It's not practical to print a whole drawer at a time - common printers are not nearly that big, and each tray would take forever to print. I think it's handier to do this in 6-8 inch modules anyway - none of mine are nearly as big as my printer could do.



I have a Prusa i3mk2 - of course you'd want the mk3 if you got one today https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-prusa-i3-mk3-kit.html



It doesn't come through great in the pictures here, but everything with a size has that size 3d-printed into the plastic. I would really like to get the multi-material upgrade for my printer so I could print the bottom of the text in a contrasting color so they'd show up better.

HOT DAMN that’s sweet!!!! Labels and all...wow. Having organizers in my drawers like that would be awesome. You say a long time, about how long did one of those collet trays take?



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[zr52002]

It's been a while - I think those took a couple hours each to print, but I'm not positive now.

I work from home so I draw them up overnight and let them print all day, no big deal.

 

[RonRock]

Cool!

 

[lilscorpion]

It's been a while - I think those took a couple hours each to print, but I'm not positive now.

I work from home so I draw them up overnight and let them print all day, no big deal.

No big deal...right.



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