Tools from the old world

[Ganymedes]

Spotted a Facom 'amm mammoth' ratchet screwdriver on uk ebay. Not quite sure how it works but it looks cool.

Mr.Lemons, I have this Mammouth screwdriver since 1978, with the optional bit too, equipped with a 3/8" square for sockets. With the side handle at 90°, it gives great torque! It is well made before the time SBD took over the Facom company

 

[mrspeed]

Someone was asking me for advice on European strippers, but for some reason, GJ won't let me post pictures in a private message response. So, I figured I'd post some of my European strippers and my experience here. This does include a few non-European strippers though.

Right now, I have the Irwin self adjusting strippers made in Taiwan, to the right of those is the Knipex automatic strippers, then on the bottom, the two Klein strippers, the Knipex stripper/crimpers, and then the Snap On stripper/crimpers.

I also have a bunch of the clamshell style (not sure what they're actually called) strippers made by the German brand, Jokari, rebranded as Knipex and Gedore.

Most of the time when I only need to strip one or two wires, I grab the self adjusting Irwin's because they're quicker. But the tend to stretch the insulation a little, and I've read reviews that they eventually just stop working altogether, though I haven't had that happen.

The most comfortable ones that seem like they do the best job is probably the Klein's. However the Knipex automatic stripper is probably what I'd use if I had to do a bunch, as it's the easiest on the hand since you just squeeze and don't have to then pull anything. It cuts about as good as the Klein's and pulls the insulation off for you like the Irwin's. It's just bulkier and not as comfortable in the hand as the Klein's.

If I had to do electrical work away from the garage though, I'd probably pack the Knipex stripper/crimper multi purpose tool, since it does everything and is a thin easy tool to pack in a little space.

As for the clamshell style strippers, I haven't had much chance to use them yet, and they're better suited for things like coaxial cable and whatnot.

 

[gamp945]

Thanks for the info, mrspeed!

I'm currently using the Irwins and they work quite well for stripping conductor wires, although they are not totally reliable or 100% accurate and do tend to stretch the insulation a bit.

But what about removing the outer jacket? It seems that only the American brands offer tools that strip the sheathing on 12/2 and 14/2 Romex - but maybe somebody knows of a euro brand that also does 12/2 and 14/2 Romex?

Unfortunately the American-branded tools are mostly made in China and don't seem to be very high quality. The most common recommendation seems to be the Klein K1412, which are made in the USA.

Any suggestions for a good quality euro tool that does both jacket removal as well as conductor insulation stripping?

 

[mrspeed]

Thanks for the info, mrspeed!

I'm currently using the Irwins and they work quite well for stripping conductor wires, although they are not totally reliable or 100% accurate and do tend to stretch the insulation a bit.

But what about removing the outer jacket? It seems that only the American brands offer tools that strip the sheathing on 12/2 and 14/2 Romex - but maybe somebody knows of a euro brand that also does 12/2 and 14/2 Romex?

Unfortunately the American-branded tools are mostly made in China and don't seem to be very high quality. The most common recommendation seems to be the Klein K1412, which are made in the USA.

Any suggestions for a good quality euro tool that does both jacket removal as well as conductor insulation stripping?

I'm no expert, but I think Romex 14/2 and 12/2 specifically isn't as widely used in Europe, which may be why the American brands are the ones that make most of the tools especially suited for that.

That said, in the second picture, the white Knipex are made to strip off the outer jacket off coax cable, so could possibly work for that. The Gedore one also has an adjustable knife for that in the end. But it seems like the Klein's you linked to would be better suited for the non circular shape of the Romex.

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[dutchgray]

We use metric sized wire in Europe for house stuff which is different to what you have in the USA.
The electricians I have seen split the stuff by cutting into the end of the cable, then grab the bare earth core with the side cutters and pull it sideways through the PVC sheath to split it, then you grab the other conductors out of it and cut the sheath off.

 

[mr.lemons]

Finally got them all opened and laid out so I could start comparing them.

Good posts mrspeed. I keep looking at Oplast drivers after handling some recently but really don't need any more.


Found these pliers at work. They appear to be quite good quality.

Anyone know about Bondline and Maggi pliers? Bondline was simple enough to look up but Maggi remains a bit of a mystery. Not sure if they are a manufacturer or not. There are relatively expensive ESD pliers available branded Maggi (as above) and also much cheaper pliers shown below. Also seen 'UNI-FIT by MAGGI.'

 

[mr.lemons]

News from Gedore.

Gedore will be celebrating its 100-year anniversary this December.

Nice to see it's still a family owned (Dowidat) business. Wonder if they will make some special or limited edition tools.

Info about Gedore here.

https://de.gedore.com/en/company/pr...s/gedore-celebrates-its-100-year-anniversary/

Also Gedore are promoting what I think is a new line 'Mobility.'

https://de.gedore.com/fileadmin/Kataloge/DE/MOBILTY/pro_ged_mobility2019_EN_3109895_final.pdf

 

[CrustyD3mon]

Whats the main function of a plier like this one:

 

[mr.lemons]

VBW 569210 160mm pliers with serrated jaws.

Textured dipped handles. Smooth pivot with no discernable play. The jaws are aligned well and come together at the tips. You can pull hairs out of your arm if you are into that sort of thing.

Marked 'Made in Germany.'

 

[mr.lemons]

News from Wera.

New products and Spring / Summer Campaign 2019

https://www-de.wera.de/fileadmin/user_upload/elkat/2019/en/index.html#

...and Easter Eggs.

https://products.wera.de/en/easter_egg.html

 

[alcorelli]

I am not even going to look at that catalog........
I am not going to look at that catalog.....
I am n......

Oooh! Clicky torque wrenches!

You guys are just terrible.....

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[eschoendorff]

I am not even going to look at that catalog........
I am not going to look at that catalog.....
I am n......

Oooh! Clicky torque wrenches!

You guys are just terrible.....

Sent from my SM-T713 using Tapatalk

 

[Kasal]

Some things from Toptul to try.

 

[mr.lemons]

USAG have also made a video of the chain extension.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/e4U91FnaL_0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[mr.lemons]

Some new and colourful tools.



PB Swiss PB 8400 Series SwissGrip T20 and T25 torx.









Witte 53404 5mm nut driver. The image on Amazon was of the old grey handle version. Was a nice surprise to receive the new version which I think looks a bit smarter.



I don't have any to confirm but I think I remember that the grey handles don't have info on the ends.



Next to it's Stahlwille brother. The Stahlwille is marked 'Germany' on the handle and tip. I could not find any COO markings on the Witte.





A possible concern is that the blue areas of the handle are very smooth hard plastic. Not an issue when fully gripping the handle but I find that my thumb can slip when spinning the handle.





Orbis 3828/95.08 130mm Electronic snipe nose pliers. I think they are NOS. They were pretty cheap on Ebay.



Handle marked 'Made in Germany.'





They are ok for cheap small pliers but are not exactly precision tools. The jaws (smooth) don't line up quite right. May try and align them with a hammer.



OLFA A-1 and SVR-2. More pics/info posted in the Japan thread here
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=7823777&postcount=4126

 

[mrspeed]

The gray facom is for stainless screws....or it's in arbois plant where they made the screwdrivers (Facom, Usag , Bost , virax , ega, expert(britool), pastorino, SK and sidchrome)...

Here is the plant where they produce the screwdrivers..

Nice set mrspeed..have a good continuation.

Thanks for this video, that was really cool to see! You know, what's really funny is when I opened the Facom drivers, I remember thinking they had some of the nicest packaging out of everyone, with the form-fit plastic molding of the case and the little snap-in piece to keep them in place. I remember wondering if the packaging was hand-assembled, and about 3 minutes into that video, you can see someone hand-assembling the screwdrivers into the packaging. Suspicion confirmed!

I decided also to get a set of USAG-branded regular screwdrivers to complement the stainless set. For $36 for a set of 8, I couldn't resist.

Those Beta's look interesting.

Which ones? The top row are a smaller set of torx drivers, the bottom set are security torx drivers. I don't know if or when I'll ever need them, but I got a great deal on them. I really like the feel of the handles on the bottom set, but I'm not a fan of the "Beta Grip" style handles on the top.

Yes, it was a Bost's plant and in 1982 it becomes 100% facom's plant, they supplied facom for the isoryl screwdrivers before..

Great information!

Witte 53404 5mm nut driver. The image on Amazon was of the old grey handle version. Was a nice surprise to receive the new version which I think looks a bit smarter.

I don't have any to confirm but I think I remember that the grey handles don't have info on the ends.

Next to it's Stahlwille brother. The Stahlwille is marked 'Germany' on the handle and tip. I could not find any COO markings on the Witte.

A possible concern is that the blue areas of the handle are very smooth hard plastic. Not an issue when fully gripping the handle but I find that my thumb can slip when spinning the handle.

Orbis 3828/95.08 130mm Electronic snipe nose pliers. I think they are NOS. They were pretty cheap on Ebay.

You are correct, the grey handles don't have the size info on the ends. I have a couple which have the shape on the end, like a torx or square shape, but not the size. You can see from my mixed set of old/new that the new handles all have the shape and size on the ends and the old grey handles don't.

Also, while the grey handles have "Made in Germany" embedded in the handles, the new ones only have it printed on the shaft. I have at least one though, which is a nut driver, that doesn't have anything printed on the shaft, and so the screwdriver doesn't have "Germany" anywhere on it.

Those old Orbis pliers are really cool looking. I almost bought a set on eBay, but they were kind of pricey and I didn't know what kind of quality they were. Based on your review, I'm kind of glad I didn't buy them, as they weren't that cheap.

 

[mrspeed]

We use metric sized wire in Europe for house stuff which is different to what you have in the USA.
The electricians I have seen split the stuff by cutting into the end of the cable, then grab the bare earth core with the side cutters and pull it sideways through the PVC sheath to split it, then you grab the other conductors out of it and cut the sheath off.

I just got a new ratcheting crimper from Stahlwille, made by Wezag, which does something kind of cool. They label the metric wire sizes on the front and the American wire gauge sizes on the back, which is really helpful.

 

[mrspeed]

Old world breaker bars. I've been reading about 1/2" breaker bars and see 600mm (24") recommended the most and considered standard size. Anyone know why Hazet, Gedore and Facom don't offer 24"? Gedore and Facom's longest look to be 15 inch.

These are the longest I could find from some old world brands.

Hazet 472mm
Stahlwille 610mm
Beta 600mm
Gedore 381mm
Facom 381mm
Bahco 390mm

Managing fine with an 18" bar from Halfords, just curious.

Bahco have the 8169 (24in) and the 8170 (36in) both made in USA

For many years, 15” or 18” were the “standard” sizes, and in many cases the only sizes available. It was only really firms such as Snap On, who historically offered a choice of 3 lengths, that made 24 inch available!

Unfortunately, while I appreciate and use Hazet and Stahlwille tools, the range of handles they offer lags way behind the range available from Snap On.

I’ve got to admit, it’s the 24 inch bar I always reach for first, but then I’m probably using it to undo a hub nut that hasn’t been shifted in a decade. Traditionally, you would probably have used 3/4 drive here, but on so many modern vehicles, a 3/4 drive socket won’t even fit!

I just got the Bahco (Snap On) 8170-1/2 36" long 1/2" drive breaker bar. It's really nice, and I've needed something longer than my 18" long Craftsman breaker bar for a while. I am definitely a fan of this, but I think I'll need a 24" long breaker bar too, because this one is pretty heavy, so I could see a smaller version being my go-to for most breaker jobs.

I also got it's smallest sibling, the Snap On 1/4" drive breaker bar. Not an old-world brand, but this one is actually a specially produced model number for IBM, made by Snap On, which is why the smaller breaker bar doesn't actually have any Snap On name on it despite them being the maker.

 

[Wamsutta]

I'm sure glad Facom doesn't put holes in their screwdriver handles.

 

[Zooki]

Hi, i bought a New Socket-Set from Gedore (19 EMU-20). As you can see Gedore has a New Logo, and they also changed the Surface Chrome a bit. It seems more shiny now.

 

[mr.lemons]

^Nice set. I like the look of the case.

I just got the Bahco (Snap On) 8170-1/2 36" long 1/2" drive breaker bar. It's really nice, and I've needed something longer than my 18" long Craftsman breaker bar for a while. I am definitely a fan of this, but I think I'll need a 24" long breaker bar too, because this one is pretty heavy, so I could see a smaller version being my go-to for most breaker jobs.

I just bought a 24" bar and cannot get on with it. Maybe just because I'm used to an 18" bar but it seems so much more cumbersome for not much more leverage. It also flexes 'Expert' brand so maybe better ones are more solid.

 

[superautobacs]

Speaking of Bost screwdrivers.... I got these under the Stanley FatMax brand 10 years ago for like $10 from Home Depot!! I couldn't resist.

Bost by ChrisCas aka Superautobacs, on Flickr





Also from about 10 years ago, I bought these KTC branded ones (they still offer this series in the current KTC catalogue). Interesting thing here is that unlike the other brands Bost supplies, KTC is not part of the SBD group.

KTC Bost by ChrisCas aka Superautobacs, on Flickr













Denmark's Suprabeam delivers with their new rechargeable series of headlamps. This has replaced my 12-year old French Petzl headlamp. I don't have anything to compare it to other than my old Petzl headlamp, but wow, the light output, the dual optics, the burn time, and rechargeable Li-po battery makes this a huge upgrade for me.

This is a great compliment to my trusty Q1 penlight which I've been using for over 5 years now. I've only had to replace the switch recently as it was getting tired from the hundreds, no thousands of on/off cycles.


Suprabeam Q1 Penlight and S2 Headlamp by ChrisCas aka Superautobacs, on Flickr


Original photos of Q1 penlight from this thread: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3387028&postcount=16946


Do any of you guys see Suprabeam lights sold in your area?

 

[65k10]

My two sets of Stahlwille Motor 10/8 wrenches arrived from amazon.de today. I'm a bit surprised though. Instead of the wrenches coming in a nylon wrench wallet like the last time I ordered this set, they arrived in a clear plastic roll pouch. I saw one pic of a set coming like that in this thread, but I think it was several years ago. Did I somehow get some old stock? Shame since those wrench wallets are really nice.

 

[Zooki]

@65k10

This is the old Stahlwille Packaging. It seems that you have got some old Stock.

 

[65k10]

@65k10

This is the old Stahlwille Packaging. It seems that you have got some old Stock.

Thank you for the information. I've only started buying Stahlwille tools in the last two years or so and didn't know how they used to package it. Old stock floating around shouldn't have surprised me. Occasionally I will get new wrenches marked with some variation of West Germany on them. Mostly AF sizes.

 

[willehaz]

Hello everyone! Repeating my post from few months ago.

I have a little puzzle.

I like to collect vintage tools, so I purchased a 1/2 round head ratchet. I usually don't buy stuff without country origin markings (Germany, France, etc.), or brand name.
However, this ratchet seemed to be very well made, "not Chinese". And I like old tools. It was in bad shape, however I restored it quite successfully.

It has "Schalten" on the head (if I am correct, a German word for switching), so I guess it is probably of German origin. Besides standard markings (drop forged & Cr. Vanadium), it also has a little logo. It is placed below the head, and before the "drop forged". I don't recognize that logo.

Can you help me to identify the tool brand (manufacturer of this tool)? I am sending the photos, attached.


I guess that German guys won't have problems in identifying the manufacturer.

 

[superautobacs]

willehaz,

I don't recognize the brand logo, but based on the photos, I'd have to say that in addition to being possibly made in Europe, it could very well be from Taiwan or Japan too.

 

[mrspeed]

^Nice set. I like the look of the case.







I just bought a 24" bar and cannot get on with it. Maybe just because I'm used to an 18" bar but it seems so much more cumbersome for not much more leverage. It also flexes 'Expert' brand so maybe better ones are more solid.

You know, that's interesting. Now that you mention it, I have always felt like my 18" Craftsman breaker bar is just barely too short. I was thinking I wanted 24" just because that seems like the obvious next size up. But I'm now wondering if it would feel too large as you're experiencing.

I'm thinking the perfect 1/2" breaker bar side would be 20 to 21 inches long, or about 500-530mm. I've started looking for that and can't seem to find a quality flex handle in that size range anywhere. A few companies make a 20" long handle in 3/4" drive, but I can't seem to find a decent 1/2" drive version.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Alaniho]

This one is new to me. Found it in a cruddy pile of junk while helping an old neighbour guy clear his shed. I know Irimo was a long standing Spanish tool manufacturer that is now a Snap-on brand selling cheapo stuff. But I can't find anything online about this ratchet and would be interested if anyone could tell me more ?! Considering is was buried for probably at least 15 years it works perfectly and seems to have a fine ratcheting mechanism.

 

[TjoFrasse]

Can you help me to identify the tool brand (manufacturer of this tool)? I am sending the photos, attached.

willehaz,

I don't recognize the brand logo, but based on the photos, I'd have to say that in addition to being possibly made in Europe, it could very well be from Taiwan or Japan too.

I'll agree with Superautobacs. With the mechanism and handle it could be a Facom clone that a German brand ordered from Asia. It could of course also be a manufacturer I don't know of, so let's hope someone with more knowledge of smaller German brands pop in.

 

[mr.lemons]

Bit of info about the new Facom drivers.

Translated from here https://www.facom.fr/produits/Protwist-Description.html

In response to the growing needs of users, the new FACOM Protwist® has a galvanized end with a gold finish, offering + 100% blade life. The new FACOM Protwist® screwdriver has a 12% softer handle (SHORE hardness) to ensure optimal comfort and support for the user. The ergonomics of the handle and the quality of its connection with the blade allows a 10% increase in torque transfer for more tightening or loosening requirements.

Particularly suitable for the industrial sector, the new range of Protwist® screwdrivers is 4 times more resistant to corrosion than existing products on the market, eliminating the potential risk of damage due to oxidation or chemicals. FACOM also designed these new screwdrivers to provide twice the resistance and deliver optimum torque levels, making them more suitable for extreme applications.

 

[mr.lemons]

Picked up some William Whiteley scissors from the autojumble last weekend. Seam to be very good quality. Not sure what they are specifically designed for. They are stocky, heavy duty things about 190mm (7.5") long. Not particularly comfortable to use as they feel too heavy to handle using only one finger in the lower ring but there is not really enough room for two fingers. No COO which seems odd if they are still made in Sheffield, England.







Tempted to buy some of their blue handled DIY shears but they are a bit pricey.



Edit. I also have some Ernest Wright (Sheffield made) hair cutting scissors that I bought a few years ago that have been awesome. Just had a look on their website and was surprised to see they only have a limited range now. Read their info and it seems they have suffered some bad fortune a year or so ago so are not what they used to be. There is some hope of building the business up again. I wish them luck.

https://www.ernestwright.co.uk/history/

You know, that's interesting. Now that you mention it, I have always felt like my 18" Craftsman breaker bar is just barely too short.

Really might just be me. I've read a good few breaker bar posts on here and most people seem to like and recommend 24' for most uses. I work on axle stands rather than a lift which may make a difference.

 

[willehaz]

willehaz,

I don't recognize the brand logo, but based on the photos, I'd have to say that in addition to being possibly made in Europe, it could very well be from Taiwan or Japan too.

I'll agree with Superautobacs. With the mechanism and handle it could be a Facom clone that a German brand ordered from Asia. It could of course also be a manufacturer I don't know of, so let's hope someone with more knowledge of smaller German brands pop in.

Superautobacs, TjoFrasse - Thanks! Indeed it looks like a Facom clone. Hope that some of the German guys will recognize the manufacturer.

@TjoFrasse I see that you are from Sweden, so photos in the attachment will probably be interesting to you. Two brands from your country - the large PH4 screwdriver is Bahco 8640 S. The green one is the C.I Fall, made in Sweden.
On the Bahco, there is no country of origin markings. Do you have any idea where is this screwdriver produced, or how old it could be? I know that since the late 90s, Bahco brand is part of the Snap-on, so I guess that manufacturing of different tools migrated from Sweden...
Bearing in mind the style, I would say that C. I. Fall is few decades old...

 

[Dave455]

Picked up some William Whiteley scissors from the autojumble last weekend. Seam to be very good quality. Not sure what they are specifically designed for. They are stocky, heavy duty things about 190mm (7.5") long. Not particularly comfortable to use as they feel too heavy to handle using only one finger in the lower ring but there is not really enough room for two fingers. No COO which seems odd if they are still made in Sheffield, England.


Tempted to buy some of their blue handled DIY shears but they are a bit pricey.

.

There is, or at least was, a firm called Whitely who have been making scissors in Sheffield since waaay back. I have an old pair of leather workers shears of theirs and they are superb.

I thought they were still going, and making mostly specialist scissors for tailors and suchlike. I’ve seen these, they’re heavyweight things with a strong joint and obviously quality, but I suspect costly. Definitely still made in Sheffield though.

If the scissors you saw are heavy duty / costly, then that sounds like the same things! You generally get what you pay for, or at least have to pay for what you get!

 

[mr.lemons]

Handmade in England William Whiteley scissors vs standard Fiskar scissors. Rag folded over so it's four layers.

Snip.

 

[eschoendorff]

Handmade in England William Whiteley scissors vs standard Fiskar scissors. Rag folded over so it's four layers.

Snip.

Well that’s disappointing! I just picked up this pair of Fiskars for $9 off the clearance table at the local hardware store. Very heavy duty and came with a sharpener. Of course they’re made in China but the quality seems decent.

 

[TjoFrasse]

Superautobacs, TjoFrasse - Thanks! Indeed it looks like a Facom clone. Hope that some of the German guys will recognize the manufacturer.

@TjoFrasse I see that you are from Sweden, so photos in the attachment will probably be interesting to you. Two brands from your country - the large PH4 screwdriver is Bahco 8640 S. The green one is the C.I Fall, made in Sweden.
On the Bahco, there is no country of origin markings. Do you have any idea where is this screwdriver produced, or how old it could be? I know that since the late 90s, Bahco brand is part of the Snap-on, so I guess that manufacturing of different tools migrated from Sweden...
Bearing in mind the style, I would say that C. I. Fall is few decades old...

Interesting to see a VDE one in that size! Since it's the older solid plastic (no rubber inserts) I would say it's made in Sweden or in Germany. If it's not too beat up you can perhaps find it in very small print. As you say, now a days there is almost no Bahco production still in Sweden, just some saws.

One interesting thing about C.I Fall is that they still exists! https://www.cifall.se/index.php?main_page=index&language=en
They make no screwdrivers now though.

Handmade in England William Whiteley scissors vs standard Fiskar scissors. Rag folded over so it's four layers.

Fiskars scissors are great. It's one of those brands that are so good that I don't want to spend money on anything more fancy, but still so cheap that there is no need to buy a cheaper brand either. One more of the brands in that category is Mora knives I think.

 

[upgrading]

From Europe to Amazon to me.
View media item 92133
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View media item 92137
View media item 92138

 

[willehaz]

Interesting to see a VDE one in that size! Since it's the older solid plastic (no rubber inserts) I would say it's made in Sweden or in Germany. If it's not too beat up you can perhaps find it in very small print. As you say, now a days there is almost no Bahco production still in Sweden, just some saws.

One interesting thing about C.I Fall is that they still exists!
They make no screwdrivers now though.

Yes, the plastic is very solid. It doesn't look "Chinese". Actually, its not so beat up, there are scratches on the plastic, but the tip of the screwdriver is in perfect condition. There is one small print, standard for VDE tools - 1000 V. Also there is a very small print saying SEN (or SFN, I am not sure). Below that mark there are some numbers (at least I think, since they are scratched out). Next to the SEN, there is (B), and below (B) there is again 1000 V. All in very small print. I don't know is this ringing any bell to you.

Nice to hear that C.I.Fall survived (unlike many other quality companies), it seems like they made a very quality screwdrivers.


Here is another interesting tool connected to Sweden. Sandvik pradines P43_20, with Bahco logo, but "Made in France" markings. If I am guessing right, this is from the 90s...

 

[Dave455]

From Europe to Amazon to me.
View media item 92133

View media item 92137

Hmm, nice to see Swiss made blades from Bosch. I have their reciprocating saw blades that are Swiss made too, and they seem to be decent!

I also have a very old Bosch (green) Drill, and a sander, that were both made in Switzerland. They have been superb tools - the sander in particular has been used very hard. Way ahead of the green Bosch of today!

Those screwdrivers are the old Irazola design, they are actually quite good (if you like soft grips, one of the best). I really like the way they colour code all the different types! Invaluable! The same drivers are sold as Bahco.