Brommie
Member
Got me some hazet and wera tools to assemble a small mobile set on the go. They all fit in a pen case/pouch.
Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
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Brommie
Member
Some more pics of my tools I took today...
Some more pics of my tools I took today...
Nice photography! What's the ribbed collar for on the Wiha? Does that unlock the bits, retract a magnet...? What style bits does the Wiha use?
Edit:
Ok, never mind. Looks like this is it
Brommie
Member
Yes it's a bitholder for 2x 6 bits. The bits are proprietary though as they are double sided so effectively you get 26 bits (2x 6 bits cartridge in the holder + 1 attached already). The **** end moves freely so you can put your palm on it for convenient rotating.
You can use regular bits but it has to be the long type otherwise you only get a short tip to use it.
Edit...i am a slow typer so I just saw your edit. Yes that's the one
You can use regular bits but it has to be the long type otherwise you only get a short tip to use it.
Edit...i am a slow typer so I just saw your edit. Yes that's the one
Brommie
Member
Some 1/4 adapters. I have no idea why I have more than I need...
Brommie
Member
Okay my last one...my socket sets. I have another one from WGB, I think it's the house brand of a German home depot here, also a good one. Someone borrowed it along with my power tools. You see, in my hood I'm the guy with the gadgets.
esben57
Well-known member
Brommie
Member
Thanks Esben! Didn't know that WGB is such a renowned brand. From all the home depots we have here, only Hornbach sells them so I thought it's a house brand. This explains why I like their tools, it feels solid and of quality.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Brommie
Member
Yes indeed they are very much lookalike. I cannot remember when I bought mine, maybe 10-15 years ago? If the wurth is older than facom copy it or vice versa I guess.
Dave455
Well-known member
I think, originally, it was Westfalen Gesenkschmiede Beckersfeld - perhaps one of the native German speakers can correct me.
And yes, an old German manufacturer of good quality tools. Don’t know if they still are, or if the name has been bought out.
Dave455
Well-known member
In the past, some Wurth branded tools were made by Facom. Even till relatively recently you could sometimes find Italian made ratchets.
Most Wurth seems to be Taiwan made now, but it’s not bad. For the money, quite good in fact.
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ That "Wurth" ratchet was put into an old "Proxxon" set I have by a previous owner. Nice unit, actually. Uses a tiny "heart-shaped" spring inside - very different construction.
Stubby1743
Well-known member
This good recent video deals with this and other German tool makers from the same area.
twistedstang
Well-known member
I ran across a handful of W German made unmarked wrenches and a Gedore India today at the Habitat Restore. I first saw the Chrom Vanadium marks and thought I was about to score a few Hazets but no such luck.
Dave455
Well-known member
four.cycle
Well-known member
those two two look remarkably like "Elora" 100-series DOE's.
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Brommie
Member
I like the idea of to be able to extend the bitholder. Just fit right in the diversity family.
Brommie
Member
JSCraftsman
Well-known member
Received my first Elora 870-1-U ratchet with some mixed sockets and wrenches. As I'm a U.S buyer, the set came from the U.K, and arrived safe & sound today! I already had the ratchet apart, and decided to only halfway disassemble it because it didn't need to be completely disassembled, beings there was no reason to do so. I didn't want to take the chance on knocking out the peened on selector, because allot of times when you break the original peen on these peened on selector pins, it might not hold in again the second time as well as it originally did. Luckily there don't appear to be any broken teeth, as all 24 teeth on the gear wheel are in great shape, and there are no worn or damaged pawl teeth either. There is a noticeable lack of straight accurate threading on the cover plate screw threads when the plate screws were tapped (5th pic). The screws still go in fairly well and tighten good. I find these rats interesting, as they are similar to Snap-On's F-71 ratchet, actually this model is more so closer to their F-710 model. The Belzer No. 7750 would be closer to the F-71 model. Anyway here are a few pics of this old Elora 870-1-U. Thanks and enjoy!
-JS
-JSAttachments
four.cycle
Well-known member
HannibalLecter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2023
- Messages
- 400
The pen is mightier than the sword. In all fairness you can do a fair bit of damage with a pen.
And probably my best purchase ever, my watch.
Opinel Carbone
Lamy Safari
Longines Hydroconquest Automatic
Wera hex
Koken with wera T5 torx bit
And probably my best purchase ever, my watch.
Opinel Carbone
Lamy Safari
Longines Hydroconquest Automatic
Wera hex
Koken with wera T5 torx bit
HannibalLecter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2023
- Messages
- 400
Bayerische Maßindustrie wasserwaage, or BMI type 661 wooden waterlever, very nice and made in Germany. 60cm long
I bought this Müller-Werkzeug wrench extender at Amazon-US. When I placed my order it was for a Mueller-Kueps wrench extender. When I received a wrench with Müller-Werkzeug printed on it, I did not recognize the name printed on the tool, and wondered if they sent me a clone. After some research I find out they are apparently the same company, with Müller-Werkzeug based in Germany and Mueller-Kueps based in USA.
There is no COO information printed on the tool or the hangtag. But I assume, from it's purchase price of $63, it is manufactured in Germany. The tool is 340mm long (about 13.25 inch).
Is the Müller-Werkzeug brand name more common than the Mueller-Kueps brand name in the European market? In the USA market, the brand name Mueller-Kueps is fairly well known.
Müller-Werkzeug
Mueller-Keups
There is no COO information printed on the tool or the hangtag. But I assume, from it's purchase price of $63, it is manufactured in Germany. The tool is 340mm long (about 13.25 inch).
Is the Müller-Werkzeug brand name more common than the Mueller-Kueps brand name in the European market? In the USA market, the brand name Mueller-Kueps is fairly well known.
Müller-Werkzeug
Mueller-Keups
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four.cycle
Well-known member
Werkzeug = "tool"
looks like it's one company, with a branch in the U.S. and one in the Netherlands as well.
looks like it's one company, with a branch in the U.S. and one in the Netherlands as well.
SwissMetric
Well-known member
Some Stahlwille ratchets.
The small combined 1/4"-Bit "Ironside" tool is not made in Europe but I cannot reshoot the picture now, it was there to show relative sizes, it's the smallest reversible bit-ratchet I know.
The other pics show some Stahlwille adapters.
The last pic shows how the rotating part (pinion) of the 3/4" and 1" heads are swappable, the original metric Phillips screws have been replaced by Allen screws which are easier to remove for maintenance purposes. Handle diameters and external head sizes are different but the ratchet parts are compatible. The rotating parts can be exchanged in a minute or so.
Also some smaller ratchets accept non-listed spare parts which allow some custom conversions, like e.g. a 3/8"-size ratchet with a 1/2"-drive. It's even possible to make Manoskop torque wrenches with unlisted torque ranges but due to purely adminstrative reasons they're not eligible for calibration certificates although they pass the calibration.
I'm not affiliated to Stahlwille nor any of their representatives or any tool (re)selling company, I just happen to know well their tools.
The small combined 1/4"-Bit "Ironside" tool is not made in Europe but I cannot reshoot the picture now, it was there to show relative sizes, it's the smallest reversible bit-ratchet I know.
The other pics show some Stahlwille adapters.
The last pic shows how the rotating part (pinion) of the 3/4" and 1" heads are swappable, the original metric Phillips screws have been replaced by Allen screws which are easier to remove for maintenance purposes. Handle diameters and external head sizes are different but the ratchet parts are compatible. The rotating parts can be exchanged in a minute or so.
Also some smaller ratchets accept non-listed spare parts which allow some custom conversions, like e.g. a 3/8"-size ratchet with a 1/2"-drive. It's even possible to make Manoskop torque wrenches with unlisted torque ranges but due to purely adminstrative reasons they're not eligible for calibration certificates although they pass the calibration.
I'm not affiliated to Stahlwille nor any of their representatives or any tool (re)selling company, I just happen to know well their tools.
Attachments
Dave455
Well-known member
Very nice!Some Stahlwille ratchets.
The small combined 1/4"-Bit "Ironside" tool is not made in Europe but I cannot reshoot the picture now, it was there to show relative sizes, it's the smallest reversible bit-ratchet I know.
The other pics show some Stahlwille adapters.
The last pic shows how the rotating part (pinion) of the 3/4" and 1" heads are swappable, the original metric Phillips screws have been replaced by Allen screws which are easier to remove for maintenance purposes. Handle diameters and external head sizes are different but the ratchet parts are compatible. The rotating parts can be exchanged in a minute or so.
Also some smaller ratchets accept non-listed spare parts which allow some custom conversions, like e.g. a 3/8"-size ratchet with a 1/2"-drive. It's even possible to make Manoskop torque wrenches with unlisted torque ranges but due to purely adminstrative reasons they're not eligible for calibration certificates although they pass the calibration.
I'm not affiliated to Stahlwille nor any of their representatives or any tool (re)selling company, I just happen to know well their tools.
I also, quite like the Stahlwille ratchets (and bit drivers), but for me the attraction is the availability of metal handles.
I wish they would offer long steel handle versions though. It’s not always about leverage, but sometimes about “reach”.
It occurred to me fairly recently, that a “complete” set of square drive adaptors might be a useful thing to own, and that Stahlwille are one of the few manufacturers that offer all the options.
Nice to see the complete set.
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SwissMetric
Well-known member
A couple of 1/4" Stahlwille ratchets. Great is that spare parts are available for nearly all ratchet models including the heads for torque wrenches. Some parts like the plastic handles are not in the catalogs.
For really compact handles you can remove the plastic part of the current coarse ratchets, what remains is a cylindrical shaft with a rounded end. its diameter is smaller the the corresponding steel handle. A Dremel can be used but one must be careful to not damage the chrome-plated shaft. Do not cut down to the metal, carefully pry open the handle using some wedge or screwdriver. The plastic part ends destroyed while being removed but is easy to replace (can be warmed up).
The 3 common Stahlwille ratchet systems are the old classic one, the old fine-toothed one with a knurnled disk and a metallic or black cover and central screw (TORX, a long time ago Allen (INBUS)) and the more recent very fine-toothed system wich a plastic (shame on Stahlwille!) cover plate, a fine-toothed rotating part and some moon-shaped locking part. They're also available in 3/8" and 1/2".
The 3/4" and 1" are of the older coarse-toothed type (rotating parts of the 3/4" 552 and 1" 882 are interchangeable).
The 2nd pic shows an custom-made 1/2" drive in a regular 3/8" ratchet body (simply replaced the 3/8" rotating part by a special 1/2" rotating part of a ratched head for torque wrenches). Spare parts for INHEX (Allen, INBUS) and TORX 1/2" sockets are also shown, damaged driving parts can be replaced.
The 3rd pic show different 1/4" bit tools. The Stahlwille 1/4" bit holders are among the few tools I do not recommend, the former versions featured a C-shaped wire clip and the current one a replaceable toroidal spring but it is not convenient, some bit forms are hard to remove.
Many Stahlwille bit adapters are 3rd party products anyway. The smallest bit-ratched is an reversible ratchet from Ironside, surprisingly good indeed.
Some additional pics for comparisons. A very compact bit-ratchet is extremely useful.
For really compact handles you can remove the plastic part of the current coarse ratchets, what remains is a cylindrical shaft with a rounded end. its diameter is smaller the the corresponding steel handle. A Dremel can be used but one must be careful to not damage the chrome-plated shaft. Do not cut down to the metal, carefully pry open the handle using some wedge or screwdriver. The plastic part ends destroyed while being removed but is easy to replace (can be warmed up).
The 3 common Stahlwille ratchet systems are the old classic one, the old fine-toothed one with a knurnled disk and a metallic or black cover and central screw (TORX, a long time ago Allen (INBUS)) and the more recent very fine-toothed system wich a plastic (shame on Stahlwille!) cover plate, a fine-toothed rotating part and some moon-shaped locking part. They're also available in 3/8" and 1/2".
The 3/4" and 1" are of the older coarse-toothed type (rotating parts of the 3/4" 552 and 1" 882 are interchangeable).
The 2nd pic shows an custom-made 1/2" drive in a regular 3/8" ratchet body (simply replaced the 3/8" rotating part by a special 1/2" rotating part of a ratched head for torque wrenches). Spare parts for INHEX (Allen, INBUS) and TORX 1/2" sockets are also shown, damaged driving parts can be replaced.
The 3rd pic show different 1/4" bit tools. The Stahlwille 1/4" bit holders are among the few tools I do not recommend, the former versions featured a C-shaped wire clip and the current one a replaceable toroidal spring but it is not convenient, some bit forms are hard to remove.
Many Stahlwille bit adapters are 3rd party products anyway. The smallest bit-ratched is an reversible ratchet from Ironside, surprisingly good indeed.
Some additional pics for comparisons. A very compact bit-ratchet is extremely useful.
Attachments
Odd-job
Well-known member
Nice level, but am liking the convenient placement of bike **** in the background!Bayerische Maßindustrie wasserwaage, or BMI type 661 wooden waterlever, very nice and made in Germany. 60cm long
HannibalLecter
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2023
- Messages
- 400
Yeah that bike is too good to not be seen lol
littlebean
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2018
- Messages
- 752
Interesting, I didn't know that you could swop out the bits to make the 3/8 into 1/2 - is that possible with the fine tooth knurled disk version do you know?
SwissMetric
Well-known member
(Other replies follow.)
The metal handles are ergonomically not too friendly but resist to solvents and are easy to clean. Here I replace plastic handles periodically as they can end impossible to clean.
If removing the plastic handle, a steel tube or bored bar can be used as extension.
Stahlwille has only a poor choice of longer handles. Here I use torque wrench tubes, an special adapter piece and ratchet heads normally used with torque wrenches.
The handle tube (1st pic) can be shortened to any length. Stahlwille sells some "passive" handles (Art. # 1820, 1821 and 1822, called "Tool Holder", sort of like a torque wrench without mechanism) but they're too expensive IMO.
The other pic shows some handle lengths. Referring to the 3rd ratchet from the bottom of the image, there are two versions with the same Part #532 (13 12 10 10): one with fixed handle and one where the head can be removed like for the 3/4" and 1" ratchet heads. AFAIK This detail is mentioned nowhere in the Stahlwille catalogs.
Edited:
I'll reply in detail later. For now I add some pics. The smallest and the largest (Art. 735/80, 3/4" female, 1000 Nm, non-reversible, here disassembled) ratchet heads. The large one is mechanically specific, for the ratchet heads 735/80, 735/100 as well as the integrated heads of the 714R/80 and 714R/100, 730DR/80, 730DR/100, 721Nf/80, 721Nf/100 Manoskop torque wrenches though the forged body is different for the torque wrenches, the spare parts for the ratched itself are the same. The mushroom-shaped parts are a bit tricky to insert with the springs but easier than repairing a 1/4" 80-tooth ratchet with its tiny spare parts.
Basically, rotating parts are swappable if their diameter, height and teeth are identical, from there it does not matter if it's a standard or QR (but not 80-tooth fine QR, oftenn called QR N) and if the drive is outer or inner square, or for hexagonal bits). I'll try to post a compatibility list later as there are some subtelties, like fine-tooth with screws, G versions or heads with higher rotating parts than the corresponding ratchets.
BTW the rotating part of classic ratchets (can be inserted turned by 180° which make inadvertently hitting the lever less likely as the lever is now at the bottom. Also for any "classic" (i.e. 22-teeth 1/4" / 30-teeth 3/8" / 36-teeth 1/2", non-"G") ratchet, the QR and standard rotating part are interchangeable within a minute or so any time.
As some details are not that obvious, just ask in the forum and I'll try to reply. As said, I'm unrelated to Stahlwille or any tool vendor or representative.
Attachments
Last edited:
SwissMetric
Well-known member
@littlebean
(Not sure if I manage to quote your message, sorry.)
AFAIK There a following versions of the 60-teeth ratchet systems, only male square drives are available:
1/4" body size
3/8" body size
3/4" body size
3/4" HD (Heavy Duty 650 Nm) body sizes
The 3/4" sizes are only available as heads, not usual ratchet with handle.
1/4" body size:
Only 1/4" rotating part:
For 1/4" ratchet 411 (and similar no longer listed ones if applicable, e.g. same head but other handles).
I don't remember for sure but I believe there was a small ractchet head for torque wrenched but it is no longer listed since quite some time.
Only 1/4" male square drive.
3/8" body size:
3/8" rotating part and 1/2" rotating part.
For 3/8" ratchet 422 (and similar no longer listed ones if applicable, e.g. same head but other handles) and ratchet heads 735/5 (3/8") and 735/10 (1/2").
Therefore 3/8" to 1/2" and 1/2" to 3/8" conversions are possible but the maximum torque with 1/2" square drive is lower than for "full-fledged" 1/2" ratchets as the size of the parts is designed for 3/8" square drives.
Using a 1/2" rotating past in a 3/8" ratchet body can be convenient due to the smaller size but it is not a replacement for true 1/2" ratchets where high torques are required.
1/2" body size:
Only 1/2" rotating part.
For 1/2" ratchet 515 (and similar no longer listed ones if applicable, e.g. same head but other handles) and ratchet heads 735/10 and 735/20. The torque limit of the ratchet mechanism is 300 Nm (usually the male square shears off first, I can post a pic later).
3/4" body size, normal (non-HD, i.e. 400 Nm) version:
Only 3/4" rotating part.
For 3/4" ratchet head 735/40. The torque limit of the ratchet is 400 Nm.
3/4" body size, HD (Heavy Duty, i.e. 650 Nm) version:
Only 3/4" rotating part.
For 3/4" ratchet head 735/40HD and 735/65. The torque limit of the ratchet is 650 Nm.
The 3/4" non-HD and HD are different, the HD is larger.
In some cases, knurled discs of two different diameters can be used for the same 60-teeth ratchet.
Very important: The central screw must be tightened very carefully, if too tight, the mechanism locks up. New original screws are provided with some thread-lock pre-applied, each time a screw is removed it must be replaced or thread lock newly applied. Original spare part kits include 3 screws to allow 2 maintenance disassembly.
As threads are metric, also 10.9 Allen (INBUS) countersunk screws can be used, ISO 14581 (formerly DIN 7991), make sure to use 1st quality screws as they can be hard to remove. The original 10.9 TORX often end damaged, I absolutely hate TORX with a passion!
Diameter and length depend on the ratchet size. The original screws are no 100 % standard but regular equivalents can be used.
The two first pics show the difference between 3/4" HD (650 Nm) and the smaller standard version (400 Nm).
The 3rd pic shows an old body, the teeths are usually fine, mostly the rotating part ends wears down, see pic 4. Also the locking segment can wear out or even break aparts. The heart-shaped spring rarely ends damaged.
(Not sure if I manage to quote your message, sorry.)
AFAIK There a following versions of the 60-teeth ratchet systems, only male square drives are available:
1/4" body size
3/8" body size
3/4" body size
3/4" HD (Heavy Duty 650 Nm) body sizes
The 3/4" sizes are only available as heads, not usual ratchet with handle.
1/4" body size:
Only 1/4" rotating part:
For 1/4" ratchet 411 (and similar no longer listed ones if applicable, e.g. same head but other handles).
I don't remember for sure but I believe there was a small ractchet head for torque wrenched but it is no longer listed since quite some time.
Only 1/4" male square drive.
3/8" body size:
3/8" rotating part and 1/2" rotating part.
For 3/8" ratchet 422 (and similar no longer listed ones if applicable, e.g. same head but other handles) and ratchet heads 735/5 (3/8") and 735/10 (1/2").
Therefore 3/8" to 1/2" and 1/2" to 3/8" conversions are possible but the maximum torque with 1/2" square drive is lower than for "full-fledged" 1/2" ratchets as the size of the parts is designed for 3/8" square drives.
Using a 1/2" rotating past in a 3/8" ratchet body can be convenient due to the smaller size but it is not a replacement for true 1/2" ratchets where high torques are required.
1/2" body size:
Only 1/2" rotating part.
For 1/2" ratchet 515 (and similar no longer listed ones if applicable, e.g. same head but other handles) and ratchet heads 735/10 and 735/20. The torque limit of the ratchet mechanism is 300 Nm (usually the male square shears off first, I can post a pic later).
3/4" body size, normal (non-HD, i.e. 400 Nm) version:
Only 3/4" rotating part.
For 3/4" ratchet head 735/40. The torque limit of the ratchet is 400 Nm.
3/4" body size, HD (Heavy Duty, i.e. 650 Nm) version:
Only 3/4" rotating part.
For 3/4" ratchet head 735/40HD and 735/65. The torque limit of the ratchet is 650 Nm.
The 3/4" non-HD and HD are different, the HD is larger.
In some cases, knurled discs of two different diameters can be used for the same 60-teeth ratchet.
Very important: The central screw must be tightened very carefully, if too tight, the mechanism locks up. New original screws are provided with some thread-lock pre-applied, each time a screw is removed it must be replaced or thread lock newly applied. Original spare part kits include 3 screws to allow 2 maintenance disassembly.
As threads are metric, also 10.9 Allen (INBUS) countersunk screws can be used, ISO 14581 (formerly DIN 7991), make sure to use 1st quality screws as they can be hard to remove. The original 10.9 TORX often end damaged, I absolutely hate TORX with a passion!
Diameter and length depend on the ratchet size. The original screws are no 100 % standard but regular equivalents can be used.
The two first pics show the difference between 3/4" HD (650 Nm) and the smaller standard version (400 Nm).
The 3rd pic shows an old body, the teeths are usually fine, mostly the rotating part ends wears down, see pic 4. Also the locking segment can wear out or even break aparts. The heart-shaped spring rarely ends damaged.
