Dillithium
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 14, 2011
- Messages
- 151
First toolpurchase of the year, been eyeing these for a while and they were on sale, so..
Stahwille 20's
Stahwille 20's
Tools from the old world
- Thread starter Monte
- Start date
N.I.
Well-known member
As far as I remember, the word Basic only stands for the handle shape/style and does not reflect quality.
Its a bad word to choose, as you automatically assume they are a cheap line.
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shoturtle
Well-known member
Yes the basic refers to the simple red handle.
shoturtle
Well-known member
The SAM catalogue is drool-worthy. Prices seem very good as well. They don't seem to be in much of a hurry to sell their tools though if the speed at which they respond to phone/email queries is anything to go by
Do you have a link for SAM tools?
Yes they seem fine -no complaints from me, especially for the £20 I paid for them. I'm curious though whether these are
a) outsourced,
b) made by Wiha in Germany, or
c) made by Wiha in Vietnam, finished in Germany, and stamped Made in Germany per the dodgy rules that have been discussed before in another thread.
Won't change how I feel about them (I expected them to be made in Vietnam when I bought them), but it would be interesting to know.
i think the "making" of pliers in switzerland consist of attaching the handles to the pliers and maybe making the VDE check, this might result in a value increase so they can legally be labeled "Made in Switzerland".... ?
NOS
sweet set !!!!
http://www.sam-outillage.fr/
http://www.sam-outillage.fr/catalogue-sam
http://it1.interactiv-doc.fr/FrmVie...67&numpage=0&minimized=O&first=O&sendsession=
See page 24 of the last link - 1/2" 120 tooth ratchet for €28.50
N.I.
Well-known member
A few more purchases:
Stahlwille 12" vice grips.
I bought a pair of Channellock pliers out of interest, and here they are compared to a two year old pair of Cobras.
Closed:
The Cobras close much tighter, and hence allow you to grip much smaller objects.
Open:
The Cobras open considerably more.
Overall, I would not recommend the Channellock. They do grip whatever you can fit into the jaws right and well, but the flexibility of the Cobras just trump the Channellock. The Channellock feel rough to use, are awkward to adjust, and have a lot more side slap compared to the box joint used by Knipex.
I am more than impressed with how well the Cobras take abuse - teeth are all still sharp and there is only some minor surface rust on the jaws.
Now for something rather different.
Rolcut anvil cutters. From what I can gather they are from the 70's. Originally meant as secateurs, but make excellent flexible hose/tubing cutters.
A few more.
And you can set how far the blade opens.
They looked rough when I first got them, the chrome one especially which had a very notched blade. But they are superb quality and it is amazing what a good sharpen and clean can do. They now cut as good as a new pair.
Stahlwille 12" vice grips.
I bought a pair of Channellock pliers out of interest, and here they are compared to a two year old pair of Cobras.
Closed:
The Cobras close much tighter, and hence allow you to grip much smaller objects.
Open:
The Cobras open considerably more.
Overall, I would not recommend the Channellock. They do grip whatever you can fit into the jaws right and well, but the flexibility of the Cobras just trump the Channellock. The Channellock feel rough to use, are awkward to adjust, and have a lot more side slap compared to the box joint used by Knipex.
I am more than impressed with how well the Cobras take abuse - teeth are all still sharp and there is only some minor surface rust on the jaws.
Now for something rather different.
Rolcut anvil cutters. From what I can gather they are from the 70's. Originally meant as secateurs, but make excellent flexible hose/tubing cutters.
A few more.
And you can set how far the blade opens.
They looked rough when I first got them, the chrome one especially which had a very notched blade. But they are superb quality and it is amazing what a good sharpen and clean can do. They now cut as good as a new pair.
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shoturtle
Well-known member
I was hoping to find an online retailer. I seen their website. I would love to know if they plan on coming out with a 3/8 and 1/4 as well to go along with the 1/2 120t.
superautobacs
Well-known member
3/8" ratchet set by Werkö,
is an old german manufacturer of precision tools and specialist drilling, threading and milling
That's pretty cool.
I like the phosphate (?) finish. The flat head screws on the ratchet head tells its vintage for sure....oh welcome to GJ....well, for your first post.
CanUK,
Has you brake drag been ongoing or something that's happened just recently? I'm assuming it's recent as you said that there wasn't any excessive pad wear on the FL. How long ago did you install your new OE calipers (or OE-spec'd remanufactured calipers?)? If the pads are dragging at all times, my guess is that there's something wrong with the main piston seal. It's not doing its job of retracting the piston away from the rotor, whenever you let go of the brake pedal.
Your secateurs remind me of Lowe
But didn't notice that your's isn't an avil type like the Lowe....
But like you, I've used secateurs for cutting soft tubing with success. Nice clean cuts that are flush.
Mine are hand forged in Japan and are really sharp as well.
But in the quest to get nice perpendicular cuts
, I needed one with an anvil base. So, I got this from Beta (COO=hopefully Taiwan
).
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superautobacs
Well-known member
Back in 2009, when I made my first purchase for a small number of Gedore wrenches, sockets, and misc. items from a US dealer, I was a bit let down. Not by their service though, which btw, for anyone in North America interested in purchasing stuff from them, they are really great to deal with....at least the sales-lady I was communicating with.
I was dissapointed to find that my "new" 17mm wrench was actually not new; it had signs of previous use! Also, a tommy bar that I got was not even straight. If the bend was on the detent side the tool would be rendered useless! The pictures were taken back then, right after I got them.
To add, when I went to Germany a couple years ago, I bought a new Gedore Habero club hammer from a tool store called Schuebo. I walked out the door all happy as I had lusted over them for some time. I got into the car and while I admired it I noticed that the handle was not plumb! I walked back into the store and they clearly saw it too. Of course, they did exchange it right away for a proper one.
All said, I still like their products, but it just makes me a bit weary of their QC levels.
I was dissapointed to find that my "new" 17mm wrench was actually not new; it had signs of previous use! Also, a tommy bar that I got was not even straight. If the bend was on the detent side the tool would be rendered useless! The pictures were taken back then, right after I got them.
To add, when I went to Germany a couple years ago, I bought a new Gedore Habero club hammer from a tool store called Schuebo. I walked out the door all happy as I had lusted over them for some time. I got into the car and while I admired it
I noticed that the handle was not plumb! I walked back into the store and they clearly saw it too. Of course, they did exchange it right away for a proper one.All said, I still like their products, but it just makes me a bit weary of their QC levels.
Attachments
N.I.
Well-known member
They do indeed have an anvil. I suppose it isn't that obvious from the photos. The chrome one has a brass anvil, and the other has a plastic type anvil.
The Rolcut was based on the Lowe patented design, they seemedly bought the rights to produce them in the UK. Then eventually Fiskars took over Rolcut to destroy the competition.
shoturtle
Well-known member
Back in 2009, when I made my first purchase for a small number of Gedore wrenches, sockets, and misc. items from a US dealer, I was a bit let down. Not by their service though, which btw, for anyone in North America interested in purchasing stuff from them, they are really great to deal with....at least the sales-lady I was communicating with.
I was dissapointed to find that my "new" 17mm wrench was actually not new; it had signs of previous use! Also, a tommy bar that I got was not even straight. If the bend was on the detent side the tool would be rendered useless! The pictures were taken back then, right after I got them.
To add, when I went to Germany a couple years ago, I bought a new Gedore Habero club hammer from a tool store called Schuebo. I walked out the door all happy as I had lusted over them for some time. I got into the car and while I admired it
All said, I still like their products, but it just makes me a bit weary of their QC levels.
QC is never 100%, but it seems you just do not have any luck with Gedore
But with the way my last company order tools, we got our shear of QC issues with proto, armstrong, williams USA, hilti, bosch and other industrial brands. Maybe you should try hazet for your german tools. 
superautobacs
Well-known member
Ahh, thanks for the info.
So in your part of the world, Fiskars dominates the gardening shears/pruners/secateur market? Any Felco or Japanese brands?
QC is never 100%, but it seems you just do not have any luck with Gedore
Some issues are only a concern to discerning tool buyers/users like us on GJ, but the majority will not even notice, or they can care less about it. I guess it's hard for manufacturers to please us, picky folks.
I lust over certain Hazet items, as well as the Stahlwille deep offset DBEs posted a few posts ago, along with their Manoskop TQ wrenches, but my money has been funnelled to support Japanese brands for some time.
I've had only two or three issues so far from the various tool brands I've purchased from. I'd say 80% of my tools are Japanese made.shoturtle
Well-known member
I have to say, some of the japanese stuff are very pretty looking tools. Especially some of the ratchets. I never got heavy into japanese tools, not easy to fine.
I have a fair mix of US and German tools, and starting to build up some taiwan and chinese tools of late. And over all, I have been very happy with my tools. Had only couple of QC issues that were aways resolved quickly.
I have a fair mix of US and German tools, and starting to build up some taiwan and chinese tools of late. And over all, I have been very happy with my tools. Had only couple of QC issues that were aways resolved quickly.
I'm failry sure that must be it; I think I was just hoping it'd be a quicker/easier/cheaper fix. The drag was there since I replaced the pads/disks - about a year ago and as soon as we got the car. I didn't replace the calipers as I had no reason (yet) to suspect there might be an issue.
It wasn't too bad anyhow, and I just put it down to close tolerances and perhaps I hadn't got the piston entirely retracted. The other day it got suddenly worse -on short drive up the highway. Yesterday I pulled the caliper, re-seated the piston, checked everything moved freely and we're back to "normal" (where it was before).
I had some older channel locks back in Canada. I don't remember them being particularly praise-worthy. I suspect the hype/following on this thread though must largely be down to;
1) Americans really like things made in America (whether or not it's particularly justified)
2) The box-joint design is not terribly prominent in North America. I'd certainly not seen or noticed them -not that I was looking specifically. I remember seeing my first pair here though and thinking "Wow that seems so obvious!"
shoturtle
Well-known member
I bought a pair of Channellock pliers out of interest, and here they are compared to a two year old pair of Cobras.
Closed:
The Cobras close much tighter, and hence allow you to grip much smaller objects.
Open:
The Cobras open considerably more.
Overall, I would not recommend the Channellock. They do grip whatever you can fit into the jaws right and well, but the flexibility of the Cobras just trump the Channellock. The Channellock feel rough to use, are awkward to adjust, and have a lot more side slap compared to the box joint used by Knipex.
I am more than impressed with how well the Cobras take abuse - teeth are all still sharp and there is only some minor surface rust on the jaws.
All I use my Channellocks for now adays are for drity work. My wiha's are what I reach. They just grip so much better without killing your hand to force them closes.
HICKS
Well-known member
New brand in Spain:
DOGHER TOOLS (import tools)
http://dogher.com/
And more pics of tools:
-KSTOOLS:
SLIM POWER:
ELTO (made in Italy):
TOPTUL:
Catalogs and Flyers SONIC:
AWELCO MIKROMIG 1700:
GEARWRENCH:
DOGHER TOOLS (import tools)
http://dogher.com/
And more pics of tools:
-KSTOOLS:
SLIM POWER:
ELTO (made in Italy):
TOPTUL:
Catalogs and Flyers SONIC:
AWELCO MIKROMIG 1700:
GEARWRENCH:
Agree... Local mechanical school had Stahlwille tools used by students (ie. all wrong, all day) from 1960's, few years ago they bought multiple new toolboxes full of NEW Stahlwille tools. for past 45-years they had only broken few tools, but in just six monts with new tools they had carboard box full of broken tools. I see that it is metal itself is different from what old tools are.
That is why I collect old tools, they are simply better, I do have one toolbox of older Stahlwille.
Agree here as well; I also notice, that Hazet is more for indoor use and if I opend my drawer for older Hazet tools in my toolbox, they are in bad shape. Chrome is bad and chips (off topic: so are Snap-on screwdrivers, that seems to have rust under chrome...)
Miskin
Well-known member
Thanks for the info
I will post it when it come. Can you post yours?
Kept my promise
View media item 28005
View media item 28008
View media item 28007
View media item 28006
Is this E-TOP (Kabo) TQ same or similar with the TOPTUL above?
Name Bahco comes from company original name B.A. Hjorth & Co
So, more acurate would be: Bah-ko
Yeh, grammar is easy, it is like mathematics, but to vocally sound like Finnish is hard.If she wants to have a challenge she should try Finnish
For example Every letter is always pronouce same way, there are no changing after any other letter like "English".
If Word "English" is pronounce in Finnish it would be: "Iglish"
All words are always same, only end of the word changes for the usage.
like wrench is "avain"
Wrenches = Avaimet (avaim et)
With wrench = Avaimella (avaim e lla)
With wrenches = Avaimilla (avaim illa)
or word "hammer" is in Finnish"vasara"
Hammers = Vasarat (Vasara t)
With hammer = Vasaralla (Vasara lla)
With Hammers = Vasaroilla (Vasar o illa)
...Or you can forget it, since all Finnish citisens start learning English at third grade and Swedish at fourth grade in school, everyone speaks least two language.
shoturtle
Well-known member
Bhae,
Is that ks tools ultimate bit set design to be used with wenches, ratcheting wrenches, pass through ratchets and standard socket? Or just wrenches and sockets.
Also is the gearwrench ratchet the 84 teeth or the 120 teeth one.
Nice look new arrivals.
Is that ks tools ultimate bit set design to be used with wenches, ratcheting wrenches, pass through ratchets and standard socket? Or just wrenches and sockets.
Also is the gearwrench ratchet the 84 teeth or the 120 teeth one.
Nice look new arrivals.
mr_jack
Well-known member
Outline
Active member
The SAM catalogue is drool-worthy. Prices seem very good as well. They don't seem to be in much of a hurry to sell their tools though if the speed at which they respond to phone/email queries is anything to go by
Typical French way of working: We will respond but we are not customer friendly or in a hurry. We will respond when we get to it. Evantually.
I worked for King Tony Benelux, French office was EU HQ. Had the same problems when I needed something done. Hard to keep a promise you made to your customer that way. Same reason why King Tony won't take off on Dutch market. The French do not want to understand that Dutch market is different to their own market. Very annoying!
SAM bought Rodac (http://www.rodac.com/index.php?language=UK) last year thinking that they would immediatly have a lot of dealers (Rodac dealers that would immediatly start selling SAM) in The Netherlands. That blew up in their face! Dutch dealers do not like to be told that they have to sell SAM in order to be able to keep on selling Rodac. At lot of dealers kicked Rodac (and SAM) out. Marketshare is falling and they already had to lay of some employees. Way to go Frenchies!
It's true, but also true for any brand.
You are probably right, but Gedore, Stahlwille or Hazet don't make a lot of poor quality tools. In their case, poor quality is a rare exception.
I am very satisfied with german tools, but I am sure that there are some tools that are not so good.
I am so Old World that I would probably enjoy a W124 very much.
;-)
Quality of products is good but QC is not that good and workmanship (casting, grinding) is rough. So you have a good product but optically it is not satisfying. For the money paid for it you expect a good finish.
Also have a lot of customers complaining that quality of Gedore is slipping: Wrenches that are not as tough as they used to be, crappy finish (the new finish they are using for a few years now).
Worst of all: Finish on the inside of sockets just wipes off. Stick you finger in it and twist it a few times. Sure to see the finish stick on your fingers!
Like I said: Every brand has his hits and misses. Some more than others but they all have them!
I would also like a nice (NOS) W124. Very usable daily driver. But the wife doesn't want it and I have to say I'm happier with my 2011 Fiat Doblo. Bought that one out of the dealer's stock almost a year after it got registered. Got a very nice discount....
First of all: Stay clear of King Tony pump pliers! They have a lot of play in the joint and have a tendency to break at the joint because of that.
Having said that: I have been using a Gedore 145-10 for several years (8-10) now and it still performs wonderfull! No problem with losing teeth or finish.
Maybe that's an option for you?
See my response above.
@CanUK: Maybe it's time to introduce some Format tools? The company I referred to you has them and prices are very nice! I'm looking into their cheap line screwdrivers which seem to be excellent quality (mate who works there has sold tons already but hasn't had any returns yet) but I'm wondering about manufacturer/COO. Can't find anything on that!
FELO: Who knows a EU (German) dealer with fair prices?
See my post bin the Felo Screwdriver-topic for more information.
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marlinspike
Well-known member
I think with Stahlwille the goal isn't to be the strongest though. I use Stahlwille because they fit places other tools don't. You can't be the thinnest and smallest and be the strongest, so the goal is to be as thin and small as possible while being strong enough.
Miskin
Well-known member
Some of my screwdrivers
Nice collection you 've got there.
The drivers with the red-black handle are Athlet?
Outline
Active member
Looks like a company that does the same as (for example) KS Tools & Sonic:
Buy whatever they want/need and have it rebranded with their own name.
So it's not a TOOL company but a REBRANDING company.
The real joke with that is that some rebranding companies are regarded to have higher quality than another rebranding company selling the same tools.
It's also a shame that these brands are replacing (in Dutch Automotive at least) the REAL good quality brands mainly because of their price. These brands are seen as good quality but no one knows if they will last as long as the old-fashioned German brands do.
I know mechanics working with Hazet/Gedore/Stahlwille tools that are 15 years old. Like to see a rebranded last that long!
I also know dealers who replaced their German brands with rebranded tools only to find that now (after 5/6 years) they really need to start replacing at least some of them. Was that worth the money they saved?
Failure of ratchets has also been higher. But maybe that the quality has improved these last few years.
Remember this: Nowadays it's impossible to start a complete new toolbrand with ONLY own production because of the massive capital involved. Let's all keep that in the back of our heads the next time we see a 'new' 'TOOL' brand!
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marlinspike
Well-known member
I find all these rebranding companies very confusing. It seems there are so many of them, and I spend time trying to figure out what they're offering only to realize it's a rebranding company and they offer nothing.
Bogdan M.
Well-known member
What are you referring to when you say "crappy finish"?
If what I think is right and you are referring to the lack of chrome, I think you are definitely wrong.
I have a set of 1/2 inch metric sockets made by Gedore and the inside of the sockets didn't wipe off.
Maybe it can happen, but didn't happen to me yet.
I have read a lot of times complaints like that and I can't say that I agree.
In Europe, only the french (Facom) have this habbit of making very polished / chromed tools.
In Europe, when you see a low quality chinese tool, in about 90% percent of cases it's a chromed or polished tool.
Germans don't make tools like that because they have a pragmatic mentality.
They care more about functionality then looks.
I don't say that Facom or Snap On don't make great tools, but a non-chrome finish is not at all ugly.
It's a more industrial look and it's easier to grip with oil on your hands.
For example, my Gedore U-10 ratchet is not what you would call pretty, but using it is a great joy.
marlinspike
Well-known member
That's not the finish. That's a coat of paint they spray in to make it look the same inside and out when you first buy it. That coat of paint is pointless and the tools are chromed underneath. It's just not a polished chrome, which is good because polished chrome is the worst.
Miskin
Well-known member
As we speak about rebranded tools here some E-TOP rebranded NWS. I think that NWS send to other companies products with flaws as you can see...
View media item 28058
View media item 28059Maybe is a model without that tooth
View media item 28060The combination plier missing some tooth
View media item 28061The side cutter is ok
View media item 28062
View media item 28063
View media item 28058
View media item 28059Maybe is a model without that tooth
View media item 28060The combination plier missing some tooth
View media item 28061The side cutter is ok
View media item 28062
View media item 28063
As we speak about rebranded tools here some E-TOP rebranded NWS. I think that NWS send to other companies products with flaws as you can see...
..
Maybe is a model without that tooth
Exactly. These should be the old model of nws without the tooth in that place.
The combination plier missing some tooth
They are all like this. The non rebranded are also like this.
Here you are..
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Miskin
Well-known member
Exactly. These should be the old model of nws without the tooth in that place.
They are all like this. The non rebranded are also like this.
Here you are..
You 're right. I just found also a pic of Monte which appears that the blue handle plier missing some tooth
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1787245&postcount=8672
What's the purpose of that "flaw"?
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