Tools from the old world

Reto · Nov 21, 2015

PB Swiss versus Snap On.

Reto · Nov 21, 2015

And finally.... I know that these are not old world or anything related, but I really love these, and they come at a great price. Again, for anything that is Hex, I really like Bondhus. The color coding wears, but I think this is true for any color coded hex keys.

Precivilization · Nov 22, 2015

just received these items, very happy

rune-hammer · Nov 22, 2015

nanofrog said:
Those are actually ODM'ed by Schmitz (link = online store; they ship internationally).

They've recently started selling directly and through Amazon.de

Thank you for that info! Will be getting them straight from the source in the futute!

Does anybody know if C.K actually makes anything themselves anymore? These screwdrivers seem to be made by VATA:

hautpot · Nov 22, 2015

Dave455 said:
Totally agreed!

I met Max Baumann once, and he's into this stuff at an almost unbelievable level!

We were talking about diamond coated bits, and he told me he ran tests on all the types he could find and subjected them to an electron microscope examination after 'every screwing' (to use his phrase)!

He reported that they were good at first, but the diamonds got pushed flat with the steel after a few uses , and then offerred no advantage! He had measured the 'break out' torque in a test rig of his own design to prove this too!

When my Snap On rep tried selling me some Spanish made Snap On drivers with diamond tips, it's no wonder I wasn't convinced!

But, you are 'preaching to the converted' to a degree here!

You'll be telling me next that beer tastes great, and if you drink enough you feel really good!��

Can confirm diamond coating is a gimmick. The Wera Impaktor (I posted previously) is diamond coated and I didn't know until I went to the product page. It really doesn't feel any different than the regular Wera. Aesthetically it is a little darker in colour but that is it.

I still prefer PB Swiss Nano-coating. The Swiss may give a high-tech fancy name for it, but all I know is that they do not rust easily!

chrissalas1 · Nov 22, 2015

Precivilization said:
just received these items, very happy

<a href="http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/precivilization/media/DSC_0264_zpsgmssl55v.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah317/precivilization/DSC_0264_zpsgmssl55v.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0264_zpsgmssl55v.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/precivilization/media/DSC_0267_zpsvti1ognd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah317/precivilization/DSC_0267_zpsvti1ognd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0267_zpsvti1ognd.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/precivilization/media/DSC_0275_zpsln7cwa6x.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah317/precivilization/DSC_0275_zpsln7cwa6x.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0275_zpsln7cwa6x.jpg"/></a>
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Awesome tools.I like very much the Gedore pliers handles!!!!!!?

mr_jack · Nov 22, 2015

Reto said:
Knipex Wire Cutter. This should work where your normal diagonal cutters give up....

Those actually are for cutting wire rope and Bowden cable. Work more like shears so the cut is clean and it doesn't splay the wires of the rope.

sljeme345 · Nov 22, 2015

rice rocket said:
Beta haul.

beta 951 hexagon t handle looks greate

Monte said:
Usag too

Nice Monte, i have same set and :thumbup:

its very good for small trees

:thumbup:

Precivilization said:
just received these items, very happy

Very nice, Precivilizatio :thumbup:

New stuff in garage:
Stahlwille 3/8" socket set 456/14/5 I

Osborn wire brush and Ruko mill pin for die grinder

losvre · Nov 22, 2015

Guys not sure how you manage so may nice tools, they cost a fortune!

Weldone though :thumbup:

losvre · Nov 22, 2015

I was in TBS once, actual shop in Aachen Germany, and compared Knipex, Gedore and Hazet pliers.

Gedore felt best with Hazet following very close. Knipex also good however with more tolerances, I mean that knipex did not feel that sturdy as the others when NOT in locked position. Both Gedore and Hazet jointing is very tight and nice.

I bought the Hazet becaue I had it preorderd and did not want to make a fuss.

Knipex and Hazet are made in Germany and Gedore in Austria. Gedore actually makes all pliers and screwdrivers I think in Austria while the rathets/ sockets are from Germany.

All my locking pliers would be from Gedore in the future

Hazet 757-7
View media item 54970
View media item 54969

Reto · Nov 22, 2015

mr_jack said:
Those actually are for cutting wire rope and Bowden cable. Work more like shears so the cut is clean and it doesn't splay the wires of the rope.

Good point, I guess my comparison with a diagonal cutter was not very good. On the Knipex home page in English, Knipex calls the model "wire rope cutter" (95 61 190, 95 62 190), but it is under the category of "Cable and Wire Rope Shears". In German, the model is actually called "Drahtseilschere", which would translate more into "Wire rope shears" and not "wire rope cutter" (cutter is "schneider" like in "Seitenscheider (diagonal cutter).

http://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&L=1&page=groups&groupID=1371

There is also the Knipex Bowden cable cutter (Bowdenzugschneider, 95 61 150)... I guess language is not completely consistent here, because this is also more like a shears, from what I can say.

sljeme345 · Nov 22, 2015

Precivilization said:
just received these items, very happy

<a href="http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/precivilization/media/DSC_0270_zpse3iaxral.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah317/precivilization/DSC_0270_zpse3iaxral.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0270_zpse3iaxral.jpg"/></a>
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Plesase send some review. I doubt it between Stahlwille 17/12 and Gedore open-ratch combination spanners. Excellent purchase :thumbup:

dutchgray · Nov 22, 2015

I have one of those Gedore ratchet spanners, I have been meaning to get the set as they are nice.

Monte · Nov 22, 2015

NonSenCe said:
be the "survival incident" just few days of electrics cutting out: one needs some food stored, way to cook it, and to keep yourself warm.

the average blackout time in germany per year and household was about 12 minutes in 2014. Ok nobody knows what will happen in the future but i´m confident.

Precivilization said:
just received these items, very happy

nice Gedore collection ! The tools look even better with the new handles :drool:

rune-hammer said:
Does anybody know if C.K actually makes anything themselves anymore? These screwdrivers seem to be made by VATA:

i dunno but it seems it´s an english company....i guess they mainly buy and sell stuff...

sljeme345 said:
New stuff in garage:
Stahlwille 3/8" socket set 456/14/5 I

sljeme345 said:
Plesase send some review. I doubt it between Stahlwille 17/12 and Gedore open-ratch combination spanners. Excellent purchase

Gedore - made in Germany

Mike.ASC · Nov 22, 2015

Reto said:
PB Swiss (basically the only newer PB Swiss tools I have). Not sure if this is going to change in a week when PB Swiss has 30% on all tools for Black Friday...

Where did you get these from?

dkroth · Nov 22, 2015

Mike.ASC said:
Where did you get these from?

They can be had from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003KW4QRS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Reto, how/why did you get two right-angle picks?

upgrading · Nov 22, 2015

Far cheaper to get them without the pouch.

Reto · Nov 22, 2015

dkroth said:
They can be had from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003KW4QRS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Reto, how/why did you get two right-angle picks?

I bought them directly from the US PB Swiss shop (webpage). You had a good eye regarding the two right-angle picks... Reason is that I needed to remove the oil filter cover from the Ducati (the Panigale does not have a common oil filter that can be "screwed on" like most cars and modern bigger motorbikes, but a "traditional" cartridge filter). The cover for the 2012 model does not have any holes or anything to help you to get the cover of (the 2013 model does). Thus, I needed two right angle picks so I could very carefully pull the cover with equal force from two sides. What can I say, Italian beauty comes at a price... ;-)

Changing the oil and filter and adjusting the chain is basically the only thing I have done on this bike (just to clarify that I am not a gifted mechanic). And I was even afraid of doing this. It is all screws going directly into very expensive aluminum alloy-something parts, and I don´t think a simple helicoil or so would fix the thread if you screw up. Thus the Hazet torque wrenches I bought...

Dave455 · Nov 22, 2015

hautpot said:
Can confirm diamond coating is a gimmick. The Wera Impaktor (I posted previously) is diamond coated and I didn't know until I went to the product page. It really doesn't feel any different than the regular Wera. Aesthetically it is a little darker in colour but that is it.

I still prefer PB Swiss Nano-coating. The Swiss may give a high-tech fancy name for it, but all I know is that they do not rust easily!

Some years ago, I was at a British shooting show and there was some guy selling little bottles of liquid which he said had 'diamond particles in suspension'.

Theory was, you put a squirt of this on a screwdriver tip if you were tackling a screw likely to slip!

I was a bit sceptical, but this stuff was amazing, especially on regular slotted screws with corroded slots! Thinking about what Max Baumann said, I can see how this would work where a diamond coating wouldn't!

Sadly, I lent the stuff to a colleague over a decade ago and am still awaiting it's return!

Dave455 · Nov 22, 2015

NonSenCe said:
everyone needs somekind of survival kit nowdays imo. or atleast a mental state of knowing what they have , what they need and how to use them if needed.

be the "survival incident" just few days of electrics cutting out: one needs some food stored, way to cook it, and to keep yourself warm.

I would very much agree with all of this!

Thankfully though, as we're all handy guys, with loadsa tools, I reckon we're better equipped than most to deal with problems!

In the few incidents I've seen over the last couple of decades, my tools have been invaluable. Not necessarily for myself, but for getting a neighbours Landrover started when we'd been snowed in for a week and ditto his generator in a power cut the following year!

I've used my serious wrench collection to mate fresh gas cylinders with obsolete gas cookers, used my lathe to make hose adaptors for pumping out a flooded cellar and my woodworking hand tools to repair a neighbours storm damage in a power cut!

We've said it before, but... "You can't have too many tools"!

ricleh · Nov 22, 2015

Dave455 said:
Some years ago, I was at a British shooting show and there was some guy selling little bottles of liquid which he said had 'diamond particles in suspension'.

Theory was, you put a squirt of this on a screwdriver tip if you were tackling a screw likely to slip!

I was a bit sceptical, but this stuff was amazing, especially on regular slotted screws with corroded slots! Thinking about what Max Baumann said, I can see how this would work where a diamond coating wouldn't!

Sadly, I lent the stuff to a colleague over a decade ago and am still awaiting it's return!

Valve lapping compound works very well also.

Qualitytools · Nov 22, 2015

Precivilization said:
just received these items, very happy

<a href="http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/precivilization/media/DSC_0264_zpsgmssl55v.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah317/precivilization/DSC_0264_zpsgmssl55v.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0264_zpsgmssl55v.jpg"/></a>
<a href="http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/precivilization/media/DSC_0267_zpsvti1ognd.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah317/precivilization/DSC_0267_zpsvti1ognd.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0267_zpsvti1ognd.jpg"/></a>
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<a href="http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/precivilization/media/DSC_0274_zpsccedl3cr.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah317/precivilization/DSC_0274_zpsccedl3cr.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DSC_0274_zpsccedl3cr.jpg"/></a>
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Very Nice indeed!

maico · Nov 23, 2015

Precivilization said:
just received these items, very happy

Nice haul

That Gedore flex-head 3093 GU-3 ratchet is a rare bird. How does the head lock work ?

http://www.gedore.de/flash/ebook/ged_2014/en/index.html#/190/

Superbec · Nov 23, 2015

Reto said:
Older Vessel Philips for JIS screws. JIS is a somewhat confusing topic. It is my understanding that JIS is an older standard and has been extended over time, and any newer Vessel screwdriver (and many other brands) should work with older JIS screws. However, this is not completely clear in my opinion. I wanted to be on the safe side and bought these older Vessel screwdrivers (not the 700, 800, or 900 series). What I can say is that these screwdrivers grab JIS screws the way it was meant to be. I am one of those guys who opened a, let's say, 1990 carburator from a Japanese bike with a regular screwdriver, and thought that the screws were bad quality, whereas in reality I just didn't have the right tool.

do you know about the jis vessel impact screwdrivers?

not as good as a real impact driver but saves tons of space and get's into places that most impacts can't

I work mostly on jap motorcycles, I can tell you a good PH will fit a JIS screw quite well

Precivilization · Nov 23, 2015

chrissalas1 said:
Awesome tools.I like very much the Gedore pliers handles!!!!!!?

Thanks you. They are very well made indeed

sljeme345 said:
Very nice, Precivilizatio

Thanks sljeme. That Stahlwille :drool:

I would like to have some Stahlwille stuff but they are too pricey. They are indeed more expensive than Snap-on, specially their socket sets.

Monte said:
nice Gedore collection ! The tools look even better with the new handles

Thanks Monte for all the tips and info you have provided in this thread.

Qualitytools said:
Very Nice indeed!

Thanks

maico said:
Nice haul

That Gedore flex-head 3093 GU-3 ratchet is a rare bird. How does the head lock work ?

Thanks. Its a solid well made ratchet with fine tooth. I haven't gotten around to use it yet. Moving the dial anti-clock wise will release the pivoting/flex head either completely if dialed all the way, or in graduation of five angles if dialed half way. It could also be fixed at multiple angles, but it could be a bit of work to dial back and forth, specially with greasy hands, and its very loose when released all the way. It might be good for multible fasteners at a certain angle scenario.

sljeme345 · Nov 23, 2015

Precivilization said:
Thanks you. They are very well made indeed

Thanks sljeme. That Stahlwille
I would like to have some Stahlwille stuff but they are too pricey. They are indeed more expensive than Snap-on, specially their socket sets.

Every year Stahlwille has a special offer in Focus newslatter.
This socekt set i pay 135 eur + tax (25%). Price is very good, so I had to buy also Stahlwille socekt set 1/2" 52/22/6

Monte · Nov 23, 2015

Belzer 1/2" impact swivel and 3/8" impact extension:

zaboravi · Nov 23, 2015

Hello... I need a recommendation for industrial vacuum cleaner. Here I have Makita, Metabo Kaercher and Bosch. Where they are made, witch size is enough for DIY jobs, car etc? Thank you...

Monte · Nov 23, 2015

zaboravi said:
Hello... I need a recommendation for industrial vacuum cleaner. Here I have Makita, Metabo Kaercher and Bosch. Where they are made, witch size is enough for DIY jobs, car etc? Thank you...

The Bosch GAS 25 is from Starmix (made in Germany), the GAS 35 and 55 are made by Karcher for Bosch in Italy. The GAS 20 is made by Nilfisk iirc (in Hungary ?). The Karchers are usually made in Italy, but they also have lower grade vacuums made in Romania. The Metabo ASR 25/35/50, AS20 and ASA 32 are made by Starmix in Germany. The ASA 25 and ASA 30 are made by Nilfisk (Hungary ?). The Makita 446 and 447 as well as the VC2012L and VC3011 models are made by Nilfisk. The VC1310, VC3210 and VC 3211 are made by/in....?? I don´t know... Japan ?

I would choose a vacuum with power outlet (automatic on/off) and speed dial so you can adjust the suction for sanding by hand or weaker power tools. I would choose a vacuum with as much air flow (L/min.) and vacuum (mbar) as possible.

ttpete · Nov 23, 2015

Monte said:
The Bosch GAS 25 is from Starmix (made in Germany), the GAS 35 and 55 are made by Karcher for Bosch in Italy. The GAS 20 is made by Nilfisk iirc (in Hungary ?). The Karchers are usually made in Italy, but they also have lower grade vacuums made in Romania. The Metabo ASR 25/35/50, AS20 and ASA 32 are made by Starmix in Germany. The ASA 25 and ASA 30 are made by Nilfisk (Hungary ?). The Makita 446 and 447 as well as the VC2012L and VC3011 models are made by Nilfisk. The VC1310, VC3210 and VC 3211 are made by/in....?? I don´t know... Japan ?

I would choose a vacuum with power outlet (automatic on/off) and speed dial so you can adjust the suction for sanding by hand or weaker power tools. I would choose a vacuum with as much air flow (L/min.) and vacuum (mbar) as possible.

Nilfisk is a Danish company. Vacuum cleaners, IIRC. Also Nimbus motorcycles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimbus_(motorcycle)

Reto · Nov 23, 2015

Superbec said:
do you know about the jis vessel impact screwdrivers?

not as good as a real impact driver but saves tons of space and get's into places that most impacts can't

I work mostly on jap motorcycles, I can tell you a good PH will fit a JIS screw quite well

Thanks for sharing that. I read about the Vessel Megadora 980 but I don't own them. The ad claims that with every hit, the driver rotates 12 degrees (which is quite a bit). Not sure if I got that right. Do they work?

I am not so sure about the "good PH will fit a JIS screw quite well." My experiences have been different, but I have to admit that this is more like from 20 years or so ago. But the Internet is full of people who complain that they have problems with JIS screws from older Japanese bikes. But, for example, the PB Swiss also seem to have a reputation to work well with JIS. Well, I guess it is a somewhat controversial topic... :beer:

arz71 · Nov 23, 2015

Superbec said:
do you know about the jis vessel impact screwdrivers?

not as good as a real impact driver but saves tons of space and get's into places that most impacts can't

I work mostly on jap motorcycles, I can tell you a good PH will fit a JIS screw quite well

SAME here Yamaha/Kawasaki shop and I wished I would have known about these like 25 years ago!!!

dede2897234 · Nov 23, 2015

Reto said:
Thanks for sharing that. I read about the Vessel Megadora 980 but I don't own them. The ad claims that with every hit, the driver rotates 12 degrees (which is quite a bit). Not sure if I got that right. Do they work?

I am not so sure about the "good PH will fit a JIS screw quite well." My experiences have been different, but I have to admit that this is more like from 20 years or so ago. But the Internet is full of people who complain that they have problems with JIS screws from older Japanese bikes. But, for example, the PB Swiss also seem to have a reputation to work well with JIS. Well, I guess it is a somewhat controversial topic...

Reto,

I too would be skeptical about using a Phillips screwdriver tip in a JIS conforming fastener. There is a great chance of stripping the fastener. There was a recent GJ discussion about this topic here: LINK.

In addition, 5 years ago, I too was deciding whether to buy the Vessel Megadora 980 and a similar Vessel impact driver. You can read about my purchasing decision here: LINK.

Dave

Reto · Nov 24, 2015

dede2897234 said:
Reto,

I too would be skeptical about using a Phillips screwdriver tip in a JIS conforming fastener. There is a great chance of stripping the fastener. There was a recent GJ discussion about this topic here: LINK.

In addition, 5 years ago, I too was deciding whether to buy the Vessel Megadora 980 and a similar Vessel impact driver. You can read about my purchasing decision here: LINK.

Dave

Thanks for the two links!

It seems to me that the discussion on the first link has still not completely settled... :willy_nil

Thus my decision to just buy older Vessel screwdrivers. Maybe not necessary, but they were cheap and I know they work :thumbup:

Vinko · Nov 24, 2015

I've snapped a couple of the PB Swiss picks -- I don't know if it was a abuse (probably) -- I got them so cheap (I want to say about $15-$20 for the set of 4). They were used in our shop so probably some culprit (at large!) other than myself can be partly to blame

That said, I'd love to get another set but I've got a couple sets of Snappy.

rune-hammer · Nov 24, 2015

Got a new old stock saltus side cutter today, from the same store that I bought the other pliers, a pretty expensive store specialized in boat supplies, thankfully it was on sale for 5 euro.

Precivilization · Nov 24, 2015

sljeme345 said:
Every year Stahlwille has a special offer in Focus newslatter.
This socekt set i pay 135 eur + tax (25%). Price is very good, so I had to buy also Stahlwille socekt set 1/2" 52/22/6

I very much would like to get the 52/22/6 in particular. The best price I was able to find is € 274 before tax, I don't pay tax since I'm outside the EU, but shipping is going to be another € 50 or so. I am torn between that and the Hazet 905 which comes with a breaker bar that the Sthalwille 52/22/6 doesn't have. Do you have photos of the 52/22/6?

rune-hammer said:
Got a new old stock saltus side cutter today

Nice side cutters and excellent price!

Superbec · Nov 24, 2015

Reto said:
Thanks for sharing that. I read about the Vessel Megadora 980 but I don't own them. The ad claims that with every hit, the driver rotates 12 degrees (which is quite a bit). Not sure if I got that right. Do they work?

I am not so sure about the "good PH will fit a JIS screw quite well." My experiences have been different, but I have to admit that this is more like from 20 years or so ago. But the Internet is full of people who complain that they have problems with JIS screws from older Japanese bikes. But, for example, the PB Swiss also seem to have a reputation to work well with JIS. Well, I guess it is a somewhat controversial topic...

maybe I should refraze ....

I do have many screwdrivers from many manufacturers .
In the pic you can see my stubby Facom , those DON'T play well with jis, and I tend to avoid them, Wiha VDE ph2 will fit jis, nobody can tell me they don't , also Sonic (taiwan) will fit, Hazet and stahlwille not the best fit but will not damage the head.

I usually know where problematic screws are and pick the right tool for the job.

A quick test is to fit a loose screw on a screwdriver (not magnetizide) and hold it down, if it's stuck in there it's good

As for the 12 degrees turn.. can't actually measure it , they do work as advertised but the torque is less than with a bit-impact tool.

.......

fantastic , now I have to source Anex screwdrivers and have many of them ... it's a disease , I'm not making any money

pozidriv · Nov 24, 2015

Precivilization said:
I very much would like to get the 52/22/6 in particular. The best price I was able to find is € 274 before tax, I don't pay tax since I'm outside the EU, but shipping is going to be another € 50 or so. I am torn between that and the Hazet 905 which comes with a breaker bar that the Sthalwille 52/22/6 doesn't have. Do you have photos of the 52/22/6?

Nice side cutters and excellent price!

I always wonder what's the point of having a T-handle, when you have a breaker bar, like in the Hazet 905?
I don't have a breaker bar and use the t-handle (often with cheater bar on it), whenever I need more leverage then I can get with my ratchet. :dunno:

Am I doing things horribly wrong? :willy_nil

Dave455 · Nov 24, 2015

pozidriv said:
I always wonder what's the point of having a T-handle, when you have a breaker bar, like in the Hazet 905?
I don't have a breaker bar and use the t-handle (often with cheater bar on it), whenever I need more leverage then I can get with my ratchet.
Am I doing things horribly wrong?

Different tools for different purposes!

Breaker bars are generally longer than a sliding T, but on the other hand, a T handle in the mid position is superbly balanced! It's great to use one handed, even with a long extension, and once you have slackened a fastener you can spin it off faster than with any other tool, even a speed brace!

Blackhawk used to make a T handle with ball weights on the ends, specially for spinning! Sadly long out of production!

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Well-known member

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