Tools from the old world

[Chreese]

Servus,

but i think then you should buy some 3/4" and 1" drive tools "just in case"....

Well, it's not that I haven't already been looking for a good deal: Hazet 1000 SPC (Special Worldwide), Gedore 32 EMU-2 (Magic), Beta 928A/C9 etc. Contacting Matador is on my "to-do-list". I found a nice 3/4" fine tooth ratchet (5060) in their catalogue.

I'll get another toolbox/workbench in the long run. Rau is definitely worth a look and I'd ask them about the shipping costs. From my experiences, sometimes the fact that the package has to pass a border (within the EU) matters more than the distance. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if shipping from Hamburg to Munich cost less than shipping from Passau to Schärding. (Passau and Schärding are two towns near the Austrian/German borderline.)
I'm almost sure that my current shop won't be my shop for the rest of my life. Hopefully, I'll get a bigger one in future. At the moment, mobility is an issue in the case of the workbench.

The only really working knurling you`ll find on Hazet sockets, thats why i have them The Gedore knurling should be lower.

Exactly. I'm glad that I just discovered another reason to buy more sockets. Now the Hazet 1/4" socket set in the H+K promo isn't wanted, no, it's urgently needed.

Regarding screwdrivers:
Are you familiar with the new Wera 900 series? They seem to have a 1/4" square drive in the end of the handle.

Gedore has this for you to turn the socket:

Yep, I saw it in the catalogue and for less than EUR 6 I might buy it. However, I am not really enthusiastic about this "solution".

Regards,

Chreese

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

let's start in this week with another pic of screwdrivers.

Have a nice day,

Chreese

 

[GuidoK]

Some old tools from an old world
2 britool torque wrenches from the early 60's

They still make them in similar design; it's a typical britool design I think.

 

[bchee]

Some old tools from an old world
2 brittool torque wrenches from the early 60's

They still make them in similar design; it's a typical brittool design I think.

That's cool looking. Is it click-type? It looks like you push the square drive through to change directions.

 

[GuidoK]

Yes, it has a very heavy click (you cant miss it), and you can push the square drive through.
They still work like a charm (easy to disassemble and maintain), but you have to stick a screwdriver in the end hole to set the force (the handle itself is free turning). It looks like a setting lever is missing, but my father said that when he bought them it definately had no setting lever in the hole at the end. The modern ones do have one though.

 

[superautobacs]

Chreese,
That wood handled screwdriver has a unconventional blade design...a carpenter's screwdriver? Is there a purpose behind the design?




Some pictures of late 90's Keiba combination pliers, a MTC angled flush-cut nipper, and a non-serrated thin-nose plier from the 80's by Engineer:

 

[DS-21]

How about some old german tools
I have a two Itmas...anyone knows when they had their heyday? Says "Germany" and "finished in UK" at the wrench!? But the ratchet is "made in Germany". One of my favorite ratchets. And Jungk...? I believe the Jungks are at least 50 years old but probably older. A search come up with nothing

The Keiba pliers looks good! Are they as good as they look? I don't think I have any japanese tools.

 

[Monte]

Servus,



Well, it's not that I haven't already been looking for a good deal: Hazet 1000 SPC (Special Worldwide), Gedore 32 EMU-2 (Magic), Beta 928A/C9 etc. Contacting Matador is on my "to-do-list". I found a nice 3/4" fine tooth ratchet (5060) in their catalogue.

Yeah the 5060 is the one i guess I`ll get on the long run. I don`t like the new Beta handles , Hazet is too expensive and I don`t like the handle of the Gedore ratchet.

I'll get another toolbox/workbench in the long run. Rau is definitely worth a look and I'd ask them about the shipping costs. From my experiences, sometimes the fact that the package has to pass a border (within the EU) matters more than the distance. In other words, I wouldn't be surprised if shipping from Hamburg to Munich cost less than shipping from Passau to Schärding. (Passau and Schärding are two towns near the Austrian/German borderline.)
I'm almost sure that my current shop won't be my shop for the rest of my life. Hopefully, I'll get a bigger one in future. At the moment, mobility is an issue in the case of the workbench.

yes i would contact them click
If you once get a bigger shop, a rolling workbench is even more helpfull so i would get me one.

Exactly. I'm glad that I just discovered another reason to buy more sockets. Now the Hazet 1/4" socket set in the H+K promo isn't wanted, no, it's urgently needed.

LOL

Regarding screwdrivers:
Are you familiar with the new Wera 900 series? They seem to have a 1/4" square drive in the end of the handle.

Do you have a pic ? Couldn`t find any info ?

Yep, I saw it in the catalogue and for less than EUR 6 I might buy it. However, I am not really enthusiastic about this "solution".

I guess the intention to place the knurling on the end like you`ll find on the Gedore or Wera sockets is that you first insert the bolt into the threaded hole (or the nut onto the bolt) then use the socket to tighten the bolt/nut with your hand and then attach the ratchet to tighten it completely (?). With the knurling at the end you can also tighten nuts/bolt which are recessed better.

 

[Monte]

@chreese: do you have a close-up of the wood handle driver ?

@GuidoK: nice torque wrenches !! Do you have more exotic tools ?

@superautobacs: Do you have a pair of the Keiba pliers with the rivet "bearing" made of "bullet metal" ?



Older Gedore body hammer:

 

[Monte]

@DS-21:
There was once a company called "Willy Jungk" but i don`t know nothing about it:

Here is an overview of brand-names which once existed in germany (some still today) click


There was also a company "itma-plastic" (afaik) but i couldn`t find any infos.
I also have one Itma wrench and sometimes i see them at the flea market and also Itma screwdrivers from germany. A web search shows this:

which will direct you to the brazilian Cooper tools website who sells tools under the "Belzer" brand. http://www.coopertools.com.br/

Here are some "Belzer-itma" pliers: (look at the large diagonal plier)

Here are Gedore pliers with the same handle:

So my guess is (was) "Itma" is a company who makes (made ?) plastic/insulated handles ? But i don`t know why the Belzer name is used by cooper since the brand belongs to snap-on maybe the name was not protected in brasil ? I also don`t know why they have all the Itma stuff and we not ? Maybe they moved from germany to brasil because the weather in nicer ?? i dunno

PS: here is a nice fotostream on flickr with exotic tools: click

 

[superautobacs]

The Keiba pliers looks good! Are they as good as they look? I don't think I have any japanese tools.

I have an even older one from the 80's that I brought with me from Japan and they still open and close with resistance and without any play at the joint. The serrated teeth have have seen better times though. The one shown above has a different teeth design compared to the average plier out there.

@superautobacs: Do you have a pair of the Keiba pliers with the rivet "bearing" made of "bullet metal" ?

Nope; those gun metal insert types are fairly pricey. Maybe in the future. They would be the perfect pliers for field use as it claims the friction points are rust proof. It also claims to survive a 100,000 open/close cycle without a hitch.

Interesting find about Belzer (the name) being used in Brazil! Not to mention, Unior (the logo is the current logo so it must be legitimate?) being offered there.


Have you hear of Hoppe tools? My to-be wife's father has some old made in Germany Hoppe tools: 1 screwdriver and a pair of combination pliers.

 

[bchee]

what is this pict illustrating? How it stands up to the open/close cycles?

 

[superautobacs]

what is this pict illustrating? How it stands up to the open/close cycles?

Yes, their pliers somehow manages to open and close, period.


Naw...
on a more serious note... it's supposed to depict how a visually rusted out plier is not seized; basically showing how the gun metal insert fails to rust.

 

[krooser]

I like the AC jack... those are very nice units. Wish I could find 'em here.

 

[bchee]

I don't know what gun metal is, but they should incorporate it into engines somehow. Looks like it could cut down on friction.

 

[Monte]

@superautobacs: Do you have some pics of the Hoppe tools ?



misc. tools:

spark plug brush, Hazet battery brush, Belzer + Rennsteig scrapers:

 

[Monte]

old Felo screwdrivers (20 years or older)

 

[superautobacs]

The ergonomic shape of screwdriver handles goes back a couple decades in Europe; quite a contrast to NA screwdriver makers isn't it?

I like the scrapers you have. Are they three-sided?
I have a Beta one, but a short one like yours seems handy, too.

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

Chreese,
That wood handled screwdriver has a unconventional blade design...a carpenter's screwdriver? Is there a purpose behind the design?

@chreese: do you have a close-up of the wood handle driver ?

Sorry, no close-up pic right now. I'll take one as soon as possible.
I can't give you any detailed information about the screwdriver. It's a Crown cabinet screwdriver that I bought from Axminister for the single reason that I liked the traditional style.

BTW, I like the design of those pliers. Very nice!

@Monte
Thanks for the tips. I don't know about the 3/4" socket set yet. I tend to agree, the Gedore U-2 and Z-94 ratchets don't have the most comfortable type of handle. It's too "flat". A round handle would be preferred.

As for the workbench, building one is an option for me. I need to check out the Ikea kitchen cabinet drawers (and their hardware). If quality is acceptable (as far as I know, Ikea formerly used Blum slides) I might buy a couple of cabinets and build a bench "around them".

Regarding the Wera screwdrivers, I found them in the most recent Schachermayer promo flyer.

Thanks for the plausible explanation for the different locations of knurlings on sockets.

Regards,

Chreese

 

[dede2897234]

Global collection of locking pliers:

Spain, Denmark, Germany, Japan, USA, France

Monte,

Is the Facom curved jaw pliers on the right a self adjusting locking pliers model? If yes, does the Facom pliers apply as much pressure as your other non-self adjusting locking pliers (ex: Irwin Vise Grips)? Are the Facom pliers able to grip both bolts and round objects such as tubing well with its curved jaws? Does Facom still manufacture this model of self adjusting locking pliers?

Thanks,

Dave

 

[Monte]

I like the AC jack... those are very nice units. Wish I could find 'em here.

Here is one on craiglist: click
(But in Toronto )
Google maps say 12 hours drive

This company once (still ?) distributes AC jacks in the US: http://www.stertil-koni.com/

 

[Monte]

The ergonomic shape of screwdriver handles goes back a couple decades in Europe; quite a contrast to NA screwdriver makers isn't it?.

I think before Wera introduced their "Kraftform" plastic handle in 1968 everything else was wooden handle in a cylindrical or ellipsoidal shape. Older plastic handles are the same, often with ribs. Some older ones ("Western Germany" marked about 20 yrs. and older) already have triangular shape or other ergonomic shapes. In NA it seems there is still a large demand for the old school acetate "craftsman style" screwdrivers. The more ergonomic shaped screwdrivers besides snap-on`s and craftsman (professional series) seem to be imported (Witte, Bost etc.). But i guess in the future we will see more of these drivers also in NA. I believe the usa manufacturers missed the trend especially on the 2 or 3 component handles, hence the imports.

Egonomics are very important here in Europe, here is more info from Bahco for example: click

I like the scrapers you have. Are they three-sided?
I have a Beta one, but a short one like yours seems handy, too.

Yes both the Belzer and the Rennsteig have 3 sides. The Rennsteig one is comfortably since you can hold it like a pen and you have good control on what you are doing, for precision stuff or work on delicate materials (plastic etc.)

The Belzer one is still listed in the Bahco catalog, the ones i saw labeled Bahco were indeed black (black glossy non see-through handle and black shrink tube) not red like pictured in the catalog.

So you have a Beta "spoon type" scraper ? (1717A ? 1717B ?) I don`t have this type only the triangular style and triangular hollow-ground style

 

[DS-21]

@DS-21:
There was once a company called "Willy Jungk" but i don`t know nothing about it:

Here is an overview of brand-names which once existed in germany (some still today) click

Hmm maybe a bigger tool company bought them...like Bahco did with Orenco.
Nice picture. I would like to have that "boy". Interresting link, I see that there has been more than one tool manufacturer around, inspecifically woodworking ones...Maybe someone has a "museum" like that for german automotive tools too

 

[Monte]

Servus,

@Monte
Thanks for the tips. I don't know about the 3/4" socket set yet. I tend to agree, the Gedore U-2 and Z-94 ratchets don't have the most comfortable type of handle. It's too "flat". A round handle would be preferred.

Exactly what i think too. A round plastic/rubber handle is mandatory.

As for the workbench, building one is an option for me. I need to check out the Ikea kitchen cabinet drawers (and their hardware). If quality is acceptable (as far as I know, Ikea formerly used Blum slides) I might buy a couple of cabinets and build a bench "around them".

So your IKEA workbench then will look like this ??
j/k

Regarding the Wera screwdrivers, I found them in the most recent Schachermayer promo flyer.

Couldn`t find any info unfortunately. The last news from them i have are the "screw gripper" tools.

 

[Monte]

Monte,

Is the Facom curved jaw pliers on the right a self adjusting locking pliers model? If yes, does the Facom pliers apply as much pressure as your other non-self adjusting locking pliers (ex: Irwin Vise Grips)? Are the Facom pliers able to grip both bolts and round objects such as tubing well with its curved jaws? Does Facom still manufacture this model of self adjusting locking pliers?

Thanks,

Dave

The Facom pliers are non-self-adjusting. The only self-adjusting pliers i know of are the "Lockjaw" pliers and a couple of knock-offs of the Lockjaw pliers.
I only grabbed flat material with them so far to grind something. If you just want to hold round material i see no problems , if you want to use the pliers to turn or twist round material, i think the teeth are too small. To turn nuts and bolts i had better results with irregular shaped jaws since the rounded/oval jaws just grip at the edged of nuts/bolts. I would use locking pliers with one flat and 1 round jaw or parallel grip pliers with 2 flat sides. There are still 3 types of the "T5" Facom pliers produced in France ("T5.L" / "T5.L65" / "T5.L100" ) 1 is available through this shop in the USA: click
There is also a version with plastic body (instead aluminium) available "T5.1L"

From the functionality they are great , i like the release lever and they`re very comfortable in your hands. So if you can get them for a good price i would get me one of the Facoms.


For turning nuts/bolts i would prefer a style like this:

 

[Monte]

Hmm maybe a bigger tool company bought them...like Bahco did with Orenco.
Nice picture. I would like to have that "boy". Interresting link, I see that there has been more than one tool manufacturer around, inspecifically woodworking ones...Maybe someone has a "museum" like that for german automotive tools too

Yes that could be possible. A lot of companies were bought by others, many went out of business in the past decades, or evolved from hand tools to machine tools.

I`m currently building that museum . In a few decades it will be opened

ps: Do you know something about this ?:

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

check out this website (PDF file, in German) for more information about the new Wera 900 screwdrivers.

Hope this helps,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

Thanks chreese !

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

now I (we) only need to figure out which type to get: the old Wera 900 (cheaper, and most likely sufficient for my needs), the new series (more expansive but cool and fancy) or, for what it's worth, both.

The kitchen pictured is not exactly what I was thinking of. My idea is: two or three kitchen cabinets with drawers (I try to avoid building drawers because the hardware installation could be rather tricky) on a wooden frame built from two-by-fours with a hardwood top.

Have a nice day,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

If the new Wera`s still have the hex bolster on the blade then i would just get them, if the new Wera`s just have the square in the handle and no bolster then probably we need both types

If it`s reasonable to built your own then it`s a good idea. I also would check local auctions like this: http://www.karner-dechow.at/ There is the inventory of a tischlerei sold , several hobelbänke, electric tools from Scheer, Holzherr, Lamello, and also a Genko drill press.....(50 € starting bid)..

 

[Monte]

Bessey clamps

 

[Bolster]

old Felo screwdrivers (20 years or older)

Oh, you can still get these. I recently seen them in a copy of Adam and Eve catalog.

 

[307WYLD]

Oh, you can still get these. I recently seen them in a copy of Adam and Eve catalog.

too damn funny

 

[Garage_Mahal]

Thanks chreese !

My German is a little weak. Tell me more about this gem, if you can.

 

[DS-21]

ps: Do you know something about this ?:

I have never seen anything from "nic", perhaps a special industrial tool to measure hex sizes?? There was plenty of toolmakers in Eskilstuna, even Bahco made wrenches there before the move to Argentina in 1970s

I have some wrenches from "Original Stecoge" too, of so-so design, guess which one I prefer

Let me know when your museum is finished and I'll be there in a snap despite I'm retired then

 

[Monte]

Oh, you can still get these. I recently seen them in a copy of Adam and Eve catalog.

I ordered some more from them:

 

[ZRX61]

CK from Germany, my "go to" screwdrivers

 

[Monte]

My German is a little weak. Tell me more about this gem, if you can.

The new Wera "chisel drivers" now comes with a 1/4" square drive in the end cap. So you can attach ratchets or breaker-bars/T-Handles to the screwdriver to apply much more torque. The "Go-trough" blade is made of high quality bit-material thus guarantees loss-free transmission of energy from hammer strikes. The integrated impact cap is not affected by the square drive. Because of the reduced hardness of the striking cap the danger of splinters is virtually impossible. Because of the design of the handle hand injuries like blisters and weals can be avoided. The hex anti roll device prevents the screwdriver from rolling away. The drivers are sold in a set with PH1, PH2 and slotted 0,6x3,5 , ....etc. ..

 

[Monte]

I have never seen anything from "nic", perhaps a special industrial tool to measure hex sizes?? There was plenty of toolmakers in Eskilstuna, even Bahco made wrenches there before the move to Argentina in 1970s

In the 70`s already ? I thought just a few years ago...

I have some wrenches from "Original Stecoge" too, of so-so design, guess which one I prefer

hmm i guess the Dowidat wrenches maybe even the Garant wrench
The garant ones are nice and sleek imho
ps: where did you get the garant wrench from ? They`re only sold through one wholesaler. ps: The Garant wrenches are made by Stahlwille.

Let me know when your museum is finished and I'll be there in a snap despite I'm retired then

ok



Another swedish tool:

Atlas Copco 5" angle grinder

ok not exactly

 

[Monte]

This thread is on a roll this week.

Love my little PB deadblow. I think the steel washers inside makes it more effective than the common shot filled versions.

Do you have more pics of this Anex (?) hammer ?