Tools from the old world

[Monte]

@Chreese:
Re: Facom origin:

 

[bcjames]

That Gedore stuff looks really nice. I can't get on their website for some reason, so a quick question if I may. Being German, is it all Metric? I work solely in AF.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

That Gedore stuff looks really nice. I can't get on their website for some reason, so a quick question if I may. Being German, is it all Metric? I work solely in AF.

what the hell do you work on?

 

[pipehack]

Yeah the ratchets are not really beautifull But they change from a ugly duckling to a beautiful swan while you work with them
Or i would take the ratchet Chreese posted, a more modern design with fine tooth mechanism.

some pics from a similar but older set i found in the net

WOW!!! Those look nice!

 

[bcjames]

what the hell do you work on?

Minis! I get the occasional metric fastner, but mainly its all imperial.

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

Being German, is it all Metric? I work solely in AF.

Gedore has a wide range of AF tools - sockets in 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4" and 1", various wrenches as well.

Hope this helps,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

@bcjames:
Most Gedore spanners are also available in AF as well as Whitworth and the sockets are also available in AF and Whitworth. Socket sets are available in metric and AF.

This link should work: click

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

The same gear/pawl design Facom uses (and Berner) also Hazet uses, Gedore, and also the new Wurth ratchets (i think from Taiwan) and other brands use this style too.

But this only applies to the Gedore U-3 series, doesn't it? The U-20 - although a fine tooth ratchet - is designed differently.

@chreese:
Nice 90 years anniversary edition socket set !! I like the box very much, metal case, metal insert... For 90.- + tax it`s a steal !

Definitely, a great price for great tools, no surprise that I couldn't resist.

ps: The "wire thing" is to switch the ratchet from left to right

Yep, I finally realized that when I re-assembled the Berner ratchet and didn't insert the "wire thing" properly at the very first try.

Thanks for the detailed information about the ratchets.

Or i would take the ratchet Chreese posted, a more modern design with fine tooth mechanism.

There are certainly people around here that have more experiences with ratchets than me, but my humble opinion is that the Gedore U-10 ratchets are extremely smooth to operate. None of the other ratchets (Gedore U-10, Hazet 863 P, Stahlwille 435QR, Proxxon, Berner) I have used comes close to it.

Thanks a lot for the interesting information about the origin of Facom tools. So how about production places/plants outside Europe? If I got it right, this thread implies that probably not all Facom tools are made in Europe.

VBW pliers:

Have a nice weekend,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

@bcjames:

I also can recommend their pliers

 

[Monte]

@chreese:
yes thats right the Gedore "U-3" (72 tooth) series has a "Facom-design" mechanism while the Gedore "U-20" (1/2" + 3/8" 60 tooth, 1/4" 40 tooth) has a conventional design pictured below:

yes the 440 series Facom wrenches are sourced from a 3rd party (Rotor/Toptul) if the info is right. I don`t know about the other wrenches etc. maybe Rotar too or from Stanleys own production plant in Taiwan.

ps: Do you have a pic of the waterpump pliers "head" ? Do they had them in store or special order ?? VBW is unfortunately hard to find (except waterpump pliers, pipe wrenches and bolt cutters)

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

these are the best pics of the VBW water pump pliers (FastGrip) I can offer right now. I might be able to take more/better pics around X-mas.

My dealer got those pliers (along with some Stahlwille tools) directly from Stahlwille Austria. Stahlwille Austria had them in stock but obviously, they don't stock everything. I also wanted the Mechanic's snipe nose pliers (575 015 and 577 015) but Stahlwille Austria didn't have them in stock. I guess that it's at least the VBW pliers from the Focus promo that are readily available from Stahlwille Austria.

Regards,

Chreese

Edit/PS: Can you compare the new Orbis pliers to the NWS ErgoCombi and the Wiha Inomic series? Which one offers the best ergonomics in your opinion?

 

[Monte]

Thanks for the pics !!

These ones here ?:

What do you think about this ?:

 

[Chreese]

Servus, Monte,

Yes, these are the pliers that I wanted to purchase. I might still get them in the long run. The long IPS pliers haven't arrived at my Bavarian dealer, yet.

Regarding the wire strippers, I never had the opportunity to try one in real use. Basically, my interest in these tools is very limited since I bought a Weidmüller Stripax (the old model though but it should serve me well, nevertheless).

Details of Walter Schröder screwdrivers:

Chreese

 

[bcjames]

@bcjames:
Most Gedore spanners are also available in AF as well as Whitworth and the sockets are also available in AF and Whitworth. Socket sets are available in metric and AF.

This link should work: click

Brilliant, thanks, that link works! Those pliers look really nice too. I'll track down somewhere to get them in the UK. Thanks for your help everyone.

-James.

 

[Monte]

@chreese: thx for the pics !! I might get some of the Schröder screwdrivers i think....

@bcjames:

Gedore UK
Mr. Mathew Hydleman
Marton Street
North Yorkshire BD23 1TF
Skipton
UK

Telefon +44 (0) 1756 706700
Fax +44 (0) 1756 798083
email


ps:

 

[bcjames]

Monte, I had seen them listed on the Gedore site but their own website isn't too great so I'll wait until monday and call them in person. I've found a couple of other places that stock them, and I think going by the picture here i'll order a 1/2" ratchet in the new year and see where to go from there

Also a thanks for posting that socket manufacturing image, very interesting!

 

[Monte]

good decision



picked up some more screwdrivers...:

NOS Wera ball hex driver:

Wera screwdriver with stainless steel blade and "Lasertip":

Wera serie 300 with "Lasertip"

The "Lasertip" tip seems to work

 

[superautobacs]

This thread is now sticky'd.

Monte, where do you purchase the NOS stuff from?

...also, new digicam?

 

[Monte]

no the cam is still the old one , sometimes it makes acceptable pics
But the battery is almost dead now so i have to get a new one because i still have a couple MB of pics ...

I pick up the NOS stuff from local stores, some of them let me look in their inventory where you sometimes can find goodies like original Belzer stuff , NOS Dowidat wrenches, the Hazet pliers i posted a while ago for example and other stuff marked "W. Germany" and other tools which lay around there since 20 or 30 years.....

Some examples:

Picked up the VBW + Dako pipe wrenches a couple of month ago. As you can see they`re identical. Dako and VBW once worked together and made identical pipe wrenches from 1969-1994 (until Gedore took over Dako). So both wrenches are at least 15 years old... NOS straight outta the treasure chest

ok not exactly a tool... Hazet "Sandril" hand protection ("invisible glove") Distributed by Hazet from 1988-1992.

NOS "Dowidat" wrench. I don`t know exactly when the Dowidat name deceased , i guess somewhen in the 1980`s. Interestingly Easco wanted to buy the "Deutsche Werkzeug-Union Belzer-Dowidatwerke" in 1976 for 53 million german Marks but the deal didn`t happen.

 

[superautobacs]

So you got a few (large) treasure chests you can walk through and rummage...NICE...i'm jealous.

I've seen the "invisible" glove products before and I was assuming that it was a modern (gimmicky?) product. Looks like I was wrong.
Does it actually deliver its claims?

Dowidat....only things I've seen are wrenches. What else did brother Dowidat produce?

 

[the spyder]

Yay sticky!

I just got my order in last week, I am defiantly enjoying the new Wera Screwdrives and Knipex Cobra pliers and Wrench pliers.

On another note- a local fellow posted a ton of NOS Hazet stuff on the local craigslist. Everything from Thandle nut drivers to ratchets/extensions.

 

[Monte]

Dowidat had a full line offering just like Gedore and the others. But i don`t know which tools were from own production and which were bought. Dowidat like his brother from Gedore also worked together with a company from india click
They also once won a design prize in 1958 and 1960 for their pipe wrench "176" and in 1960 for the "Super-Gripzange Nr. 166 S".
Unfortunately you`ll find not much info since they deceased before the internet era. Here is something in japanese... (scroll down)


another NOS Dowidat wrench:

NOS Belzer electric screwdriver

@superautobacs:
I didn`t try the Hazet stuff yet - usually you`ll find "pr88" here which i also use and it works.
www.pr88.com

from ebay: Dowidat ratchet

Here some tools Werkzeug-Union/DWU (Belzer-Dowidat) won design prizes for:

Ratchet (1979)

click

Pliers (1979)

click

screwdrivers (1979)

click

Pliers (1981)

click

Pincers (1981)

click

 

[dede2897234]

Monte,


Thanks for posting the manufacturing process Gedore uses to produce their sockets. Now I know the difference between hot and cold forged process!


Dave

 

[garfunkle24]

Just a couple of small things to add:

Wurth tap set

Felo insulated screwdriver set

 

[superautobacs]

Monte,

Thanks for showing illustrations of tools from the Belzer-Dowidat days (late 1970's - 1985, when it was taken over by Sandvik (Snap-on).

During the takeover in 1985, the grandson of Otto Dowidat (of Gedore) bought out the "Dowidat" name so that the name remained in the family. Apparently, saving that Dowidat company name was a long awaited wish by the family. Unfortunately(?), Gedore has not launched a line of tools with the Dowidat name.

In my city, there's a lot of people who have immigrated from India, but I don't think I've ever seen any Hindustan Everest tools. I don't know if I should be excited about keeping an eye out for them or not.

 

[Monte]

@garfunkle:
are you back from germany ??

Monte,


Thanks for posting the manufacturing process Gedore uses to produce their sockets. Now I know the difference between hot and cold forged process!


Dave

you`re welcome !

here is an insight of their screwdrivers:

Monte,

Thanks for showing illustrations of tools from the Belzer-Dowidat days (late 1970's - 1985, when it was taken over by Sandvik (Snap-on).

During the takeover in 1985, the grandson of Otto Dowidat (of Gedore) bought out the "Dowidat" name so that the name remained in the family. Apparently, saving that Dowidat company name was a long awaited wish by the family. Unfortunately(?), Gedore has not launched a line of tools with the Dowidat name.

The Bahco website states following:

1988
- Acquisition of the German tool manufacturer Belzer-Dowidat in Wuppertal. Robert Belzer founded his tools factory in 1884 and was the first to start to produce tools made of Chrome-Vanadium in 1925. The products today carry the Bahco brand.

The name "Belzer-Dowidat" was registered 24.10.1987 click by SNA Europe (if you click on the left arrow the Belzer info appear). I wonder why snapon registered this name shortly before it deceased and also i wonder about the "Dowidat" in the name ?? Or is it just the design of the name pictured ?? Anyway in 2017 it will expire and if they don`t renew the trademark i will get it The Belzer mark expire in jan. 2010 i register that too and start my own tool production

In my city, there's a lot of people who have immigrated from India, but I don't think I've ever seen any Hindustan Everest tools. I don't know if I should be excited about keeping an eye out for them or not.

at least i`d like to have a wrench just for the collection, because of historic reasons


ps:
some Belzer tools (1 already Bahco branded)

 

[Monte]

just found these "John Deere" Witte screwdrivers... didn`t know that they sell them... also Knipex pliers and Rennsteig screw extractors..

click

click

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

@Monte: Where did you get the graph about the origin of Facom tools from?

Nothing fancy today, just hammers and screwdrivers.

Greetings from Europe,

Chreese

 

[Monte]

@chreese:
nice collection of Halder and Habero hammers !! Do the Atorn hammer say "Osca" on the head ?? I like those Wiha screwdrivers too !

ps: the one Facom excerpt is from here: click the other from here
Did Facom finally email you back ?

 

[Hazet]

Monte:

I was looking through some old post and saw you had posted a picture of the Gedore torque wrench . As I mentioned before, I am looking for a torque wrench in the 5-20NM and 20-200NM range (give or take). How does it compare to the Stahlwille 730N or the Hazet 629x range ?

Gedore "Dremometer" made of one piece of aluminium

 

[superautobacs]

Monte,

ahhh...translucent red handles are

If I ever come across an Everest tool, I'll let you know.

 

[Monte]

The Dremometer only comes with fixed square drive ! So you need a ratchet adaptor (only model "8573-10" (1/2", 40-200 NM) comes with integrated ratchet). The other wrenches have either one (for clockwise) or 2 square drives for clock- and counterclock wise tightening. Other than that i guess they`re nice , and also around forever.
Stahlwille has a complete different mechanism without a spring which you don`t have to reset to the lowest setting. They also have a quick release button to exchange the heads easily. More info here and here. Can`t say much about the Hazet ones, only worked with the others. Gedore and also Hazet have lower priced torque wrenches like the Gedore Torcofix and Hazet "51" ones. Its a matter of taste too which scale you prefer the etched/engraved or the ones like Stahlwille or also Facom uses. I prefer the latter hence i have a Torcofix model and a rebadged Torcofix. With these 2 wrenches i can cover 2-200 NM while from the other manufacturers you need 3 wrenches to cover the complete range from 2-200NM. Also they are less pricey. My dream torque wrenches are the Stahlwille Manoskop 730N series though.
But i also like this Hazet 5000 CLT series with a direct reading:

Old Dremometer advertisement before Herder/Rahsol belonged to Gedore.

a test from a magazine with 16 participants . Place 1-5: Hazet, Facom, Hazet,Gedore,Hazet.

@superautobacs:
yeah let me know !! I`m building a tools from india collection

NOS Gedore offset wrenches and a used combi wrench

 

[OldToolMan]

i have 1 pair of flat long nose pliers H&M STRAIGHTLN on 1 side HALLEN----- GERMANY on the other .1 very old brass inserted flat nosed marked GERMANY only. IF interested contact me Larry

 

[Chreese]

Servus,

Do the Atorn hammer say "Osca" on the head ??

I don't think so but will check back as soon as possible (in about a week).

ps: the one Facom excerpt is from here: click the other from here
Did Facom finally email you back ?

Thanks for the information. I replied to the message from Facom mentioned in a previous post (quoted below) but Facom hasn't responded, yet. I don't expect an answer. One of the questions raised in my email was if Facom could confirm that screwdrivers and pliers are made by Bost in France. I wonder why they don't comment on that ...
I'm not very tempted to buy Facom tools under these circumstances. The fingertip ratchet, a flex-head ratchet, pliers, Torx wrenches and the 3/4" ratchet were on my list. I already opted for 3/4" tools from Stahlwille. A fingertip ratchet is available from Gedore, flex-head ratchets from a variety of manufacturers (I'm leaning towards Ko-Ken and Genius) and as for Torx wrenches, the Hazet 630-E series is on my mind. The single reason why I contemplated the Facom pliers was that I thought they looked nice, no real need for them.

Got a response today but they claim they can't inform me about the "details" of the production places. I sent them this link, maybe it helps them to understand my point of view.

Any news from Unior?

Torque wrenches:
Is this one from Gedore offered in the USA? I'd seriously consider it. Indeed, I might get one myself.

Chreese

 

[Hazet]

Just saw these videos on youtube about GEDORE. The first one shows the building process, which looks to be of a very high standard. I have never seen the GEDORE tools that come out of the Brasil factory. The stuff made in India is not very good, certainly not up to the standard of the GEDORE tools from Germany.

Factory in Brasil:

Ratchet:

Tool Trolley:

 

[356vintage]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask this, but, I'm interested in collecting old Hazet tool catalogs, display items and tools. Please contact me if you have anything you'd like to sell. Thank you. Rich

 

[superautobacs]

@superautobacs:
yeah let me know !! I`m building a tools from india collection

I'd have no problem getting you a set of made-in-India Gedore combi wrenches. I've seen quite of few of those.

I'm more interested in the Hindustan Everest tools though.



[EDIT] Hazet, thanks for the video links; I've never seen the Gedore Brazil video. Here's another one that showcases their hand tool lineup:

On another note...
How fitting this is for the season.

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[gathanas1970]

Hi everybody! I have been reading your posts for a long time . Currently I

own a mediocre toolbox conisisting of Facom, Beta, Elora and Acesa tools.

I promise to post detailed photos as soon as possible .

The reason for writing is that I'm planning to buy a torque wrench and

decided to join the big league (e.g. Stahlville Manoskop 730N or Hazet 5000

CLT/6000 CT series). Here in Greece there isn't such a thing as a dealer for

Stahlwille. On the other hand Hazet tools are outrageously expensive (while

searching the net I came across www.rmashop.de where the HZ5122-1CT

retails for 170,77 EUR including VAT. I asked my local dealer about the same

item and surprise surprise the retail price is 270,00 EUR . I didn't dare

to ask about the HZ5122-2 CLT or the 6122-1 CT So the only remaining

option is buing from an online shop.

Monte, I would be greatfull if you could post the complete torque wrench

test mentioned above (post 1195).

 

[Monte]

i have 1 pair of flat long nose pliers H&M STRAIGHTLN on 1 side HALLEN----- GERMANY on the other .1 very old brass inserted flat nosed marked GERMANY only. IF interested contact me Larry

Do you have any pics ??

Servus,

I don't think so but will check back as soon as possible (in about a week).

Thanks for checking !

Thanks for the information. I replied to the message from Facom mentioned in a previous post (quoted below) but Facom hasn't responded, yet. I don't expect an answer. One of the questions raised in my email was if Facom could confirm that screwdrivers and pliers are made by Bost in France. I wonder why they don't comment on that ...
I'm not very tempted to buy Facom tools under these circumstances. The fingertip ratchet, a flex-head ratchet, pliers, Torx wrenches and the 3/4" ratchet were on my list. I already opted for 3/4" tools from Stahlwille. A fingertip ratchet is available from Gedore, flex-head ratchets from a variety of manufacturers (I'm leaning towards Ko-Ken and Genius) and as for Torx wrenches, the Hazet 630-E series is on my mind. The single reason why I contemplated the Facom pliers was that I thought they looked nice, no real need for them.

Luckily there are other manufacturers out there who offer similar products so you don`t depend on one......

Any news from Unior?

yes they mailed back and asked if i`m a dealer or private person, i mailed back and now i wait for their answer... .. i only want to buy a screwdriver though....

Torque wrenches:
Is this one from Gedore offered in the USA? I'd seriously consider it. Indeed, I might get one myself.

Chreese

for 125.- + tax that`s a good deal. If i wouldn`t have one i would buy this one too.....


@Hazet: Do you know the Hazet videos ?? click

The Gedore production in India stopped in 1986. They still have plants in Brasil, South Africa, and Turkey who produce for their local markets. In England they have a factory too which produce torque tools.

I'd have no problem getting you a set of made-in-India Gedore combi wrenches. I've seen quite of few of those.

thanks ! But my Gedore india collection is already complete i have no desire to buy more

I'm more interested in the Hindustan Everest tools though. ]

yeah me too, i hope they are better than the Gedores from india


@gathanas1970

yes pleaseeeeeeee post some pics of your tools !!!!!!!!!

I couldn`t find a stahlwille dealer in greece but Hazet and Gedore have dealers there.

Gedore:

Greece north:

Dakoudis Alex
6, Ipirou Str
GR-555 35 Pilea
Thessaloniki
[email protected]

Greece south:

C. Canetti & Co.
Mr. Max Canetti
269, Messogion Ave.
GR-125 31
Halandri-Athens
www.kanetis.gr
Telefon +30 (21) 06721500
Fax +30 (21) 06775005

Hazet:

*** E. Scazikis - L. Marangos S.A.
Industrial Area Sindos
57022 Thessaloniki
contact: Vasilis Parisis
Telefon: 0030-310-797 640
Fax: 0030-310-798 890

*** E. Scazikis - L. Marangos S.A.
2, Serron Str.
10441 Athen
contact: Nikolaos Kapogiannis
Telefon: 0030-210-5296 900
Fax: 0030-210-5223 412

Internet: www.skama.com


Another company: They have Knipex, Witte and Picard www.italtd.gr

ps: i can post the test but it takes until monday or tuesday...


finally some tools.... a interesting ratchet and pliers...

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[Hawk321]

@Monte

Vid1:
Hell what a pink ****...I use my fingers for that btw. those gears are to big and will make small head ratchets useless...other way, Belzer had a similar design.

Vid2: I don't belive that you can apply enough power to the pliers...at the end he means, that you are able to reach in tight areas with this design...old!
Double Joint pliers are the answer.